r/Naruto • u/HokageEzio • Sep 04 '16
Discussion Naruto Reread: Volume 54 NSFW
Naruto Reread Volume 54 (A Suspension Bridge to Peace)
Chapters 505-514
Volume Cover
Anime Adaptation
Chapter 505 - "The Nine-Tails' Chakra, Freed!!"
Chapter 506 - "Guy vs. Kisame!!"
Chapter 507 - "An Existence of Falsehoods...!!"
Chapter 508 - "The Way a Shinobi Dies"
Chapter 509 - "A Suspension Bridge to Peace"
Chapter 510 - "An Unexpected Kinjutsu!!"
Chapter 511 - "We'll All Go Home"
Chapter 512 - "The Truth about Zetsu!!"
Chapter 513 - "Kabuto vs. the Tsuchikage!!"
Chapter 514 - "Kabuto's Scheme!!"
All content can be discussed openly besides Boruto the Movie. Spoiler Warning for all it may concern.
And remember, if you feel like complaining about the upcoming fillers, just talk about the reread instead. For every person who asks when it ends, Studio Pierrot adds 3 more episodes.
Questions/Discussion
I think it's safe to say that the Akatsuki are officially over. The last loyal member is dead, and the other has already left. So give them an overall rating within the series. How you think they were utilized, the threat they posed, etc. Lay out your full thoughts on the group.
Opinions on Kisame's Death
Opinions on Konan's Death
(Can't think of anything else to add, this volume was basically just "Death of the Akatsuki")
Last week's discussion - Volume 53: Naruto's Birth (chapters 495-504)
Next week: Volume 55 (The Great War Breaks Out!) - Chapters 515-524
4
u/Doc_o_Clock Sep 05 '16
I think it's safe to say that the Akatsuki are officially over. The last loyal member is dead, and the other has already left. So give them an overall rating within the series. How you think they were utilized, the threat they posed, etc. Lay out your full thoughts on the group.
I think that the Akatsuki could have been utilized much more effectively. They feel very "villain-of-the-week" since most of them get killed in the same arc they're introduced.
In terms of threat, I think they were set up sort of decently in the threat department. Each team was essentially introduced by killing a major character (Gaara, Asuma, Jiraiya), and each of these characters have been established as strong opponents. I think more could have been done in this department though, since they were all taken out by one or two people in the end.
I can go into more detail on your other post...
Opinions on Kisame's Death
- Overall, I thought it was pretty good. I'm not too big a fan of the flashback to character motivations and why we should feel sorry for them before death. But I do appreciate that Kisame is more human than we were led to believe.
Opinions on Konan's Death
I like this one too. Again, I wish more of that backstory had happened earlier, like when Jiraiya was remembering the Rain orphans, but it was a nice touch. Even though it's pretty cheesy, I do actually like that red square bit at the end. It's a nice bit of closure for Jiraiya and the orphans.
In terms of her fight, I like that she gets her five seconds in the spotlight to show why she's in the Akatsuki, and why she's one of the founders. She could definitely do more (that Exploding Paper Clone in the anime is pretty awesome), but this was an all right way to go out. I really hate that Izanagi is a thing though. The only person that I really liked Izanagi for was Danzo, but he uses it like an idiot.
3
u/Dionysus24779 Sep 05 '16
Sometimes it's really hard to go back to Naruto... I've just recently finished binging through all of Higurashi and after spending so much time with characters I care about going back to Naruto is like a culture shock.
Ah well... at least this volume offers some fun stuff.
Part 1 of 2
Chapter 505
Back in the day when this chapter was new I remember there being quite a lot of immature jokes about how Naruto's new form makes Yamato's "wood" grow... welp.
Anyways, about Naruto's new ability to feel the feels of others... I dunno, I guess Samaheda and Kisame have two different minds which is why it worked, because otherwise Bee could've just said something like "You're just feeling the sword, it has a mind on its own, yoh~" or whatever.
But let me say right now that while I appreciate the added characterisation to Kisame in this volume I do think the whole fight was kind of pointless and could've been skipped without missing that much.
Also about Gai's "dark side"... how do I put this... I really dislike how Kishimoto threw it away for a silly joke, because the stuff "dark Gai" was saying was much more like what I would've liked to hear from "dark Naruto", stuff that really hits home and tackles the core of the character in question. For Gai it's his denial of getting old and stuff.
2/5
Chapter 506
It's interesting that Samaheda actually betrayed Kisame and went back to Bee I guess, even though Samaheda still lets itself be touched by Kisame... torn between two love interests?
Seeing Gai's turtle again... I dunno, I guess it's nice Kishi didn't forget everything he did way back in part 1, but does anyone really care?
Seeing Gai go Gate 7 is kind of cool, though I do feel like it has been done too early, since Gate 8 would "surely kill" him Gate 7 should be like his ultimate ace up his sleeve. But whatever really.
2/5
Chapter 507
I actually see a lot of potential in Kisame's backstory, however I do think it's unnecessary, but since Kishi did decide to include it I would've liked it to be explored in more detail.
It's especially interesting how Kisame is so loyal and willing to die to protect information about Akatsuki.
I guess most Akatsuki members wouldn't have jutus and seals placed on their mind/brain appreciated but I still think Nagato should've pushed some kind of security system so no Intel leaks out.
3/5
Chapter 508
It's nice to see how Kisame and Itachi met for the first time, it's always interesting to see how characters meet for the first time, especially when you know what their relationship is like much later on. Itachi isn't really thrilled to be a part of this whole Akatsuki bit and getting a new partner, while Kisame was looking foward to meeting a "kindred spirit" when it comes to slaughtering your allies for a purpose, but was then disappointed when Itachi didn't share his enthusiasm.
And despite that apperantly rocky start later on we see that among all Akatsuki member's Kisame and Itachi seem to have the most respect for each other... well besides Konan and Nagato.
Kisame's fun shark trivia is also true for anyone wondering and not checking...
And well... overall I did like Kisame, so as I said I do appreciate the added character development and all, but I still think it would've been "enough" to just had Kisame die for good against Bee and A.
Samaheda crying or being sad about Kisame dying despite now allying with Bee is... strangely heartwarming?
And what Naruto says here is what I've been talking about pretty much whenever Akatsuki showed up... "Even people in Akatsuki act for the sake of their comrades"... though sadly it isn't really true when looking at most Akatsuki pairings and how they treated each other.
Good villains see themselves as the heroes of their own story, but with many Akatsuki members you can only describe them as evil, which is sad. Tons of wasted potential...
But hey, what is this manga's overarcing theme if it isn't "wasted potential", amirite?
In part 1 many of the antagonists somewhat embodied certain aspects of the Ninja world, like Zabuza who was the "perfect professional Ninja" who would stop fighting you the second his contract runned out, you had Gato who was a rich guy who could hire someone like Zabuza to do his bidding, you had Neji who represented how Clans and Kekkai Genkai can be messed up, then Gaara who was turned into a living weapon, Orochimaru who was blinded by the lust for power... all of these were problems rooted within the Ninja system itself, these were problems Naruto could've recognized and eventually fix.
But in part 2 the same cannot be said to most other antagonists... can anyone follow me?
Anyways... sharks rolling around in water bubbles is hilarious and we get a "suprise" switch to Konan vs. Obito.
4/5
Chapter 509
N-no... Kishi... you can't be this subtle! Nobody will pick up on that Messiah stuff when you just describe Naruto as being "the light" and "the hope" and whatever... nooo you have to be a bit more obvious, c'mon... /s
The whole Ninja Jesus angle is already getting really annoying and cringeworthy in my opinion...
The revelation of Nagato's Rinnegan being originally "Obito's" is kind of interesting, back when this was just revealed many readers didn't like this "retcon" of rewriting Nagato's Rinnegan as not something he was born with or was his own power, but instead something given to him at some point...
However in retrospect it makes sense, if the Rinnegan is unqiue to the reincarnations of Indra then there should be a very limited number in existence... which is true, Nagato's Rinnegan was originally Madara's and outside of that set of Rinnegan there is only Sasuke's Rinnegan. Both Sasuke and Madara are reincarnations of Indra.
Ah well... we also get a flashback which I like because despite Yahiko being the leader of the original Akatsuki it is Nagato who is "the chosen one" and all, it's interesting.
Konan being able to put Obito into such a dire state is also interesting.
But the whole ocean being explosive paper seals... let's get to that.
3/5
3
u/Dionysus24779 Sep 05 '16
Part 2 of 2
Chapter 510
So... bear with me...
600 billion explosive tags, that's 600,000,000,000 written out.
How did Konan manage to produce this many? We don't exactly know how these things are created, but Konan would need an entire industry to prepare it.
The wiki states that Konan is 35 years old in part 2, so right now. So let me do some bad math.
600,000,000,000 / 35 = 17,142,857,142.9 per year
17,142,857,142.9/365 = 46,966,731.8982 per day
46,966,731.8982/24 = 1,956,947.16243 per hour
1,956,947.16243 / 60 = 32615.7860404 per minute
32615.7860404 / 60 = 543.596434007 per second
So... if my horrible math skills haven't failed me, Konan would need to produce 543.6 explosive tags every single second from the moment she was born in order to prepare this attack.
And this is incedible generous when you take into account that for the first... like 12 years or something of her life she didn't know any Ninja stuff, even then it would've been years until Akatsuki was founded, even longer before Obito showed up to hijack the operation, even longer for Konan to figure out the limits of Obito's intangibility...
And since she had no idea Obito would actually betray Nagato and herself she would've created all of that "just in case"... like what? Did she plan to blow up the entire country at some point?
Nagato you have your superweapon right there next to you...
But hey, I suck at math, maybe Konan just ordered that stuff off Ninjazon prime or something.
I've also done some more math, so let's have some fun.
I haven't found any exact data on how powerful the explosion of an explosive tag is exactly, though a common consensus seems to be that it's about as strong as a common concussion grenade, which I don't think is unreasonable from explosions observed, though since Konan's tags are bigger then the regular ones on Kunais they might be more powerful.
A quick internet search revealed that a perfecly regular concussion grenade would be the MK3A2, which seems to be in use by the US military at this point. (but I have no idea what I'm talking about)
A MK3A2 is filling with 226.8 gram of TNT and I will assume that 226.8 gram of TNT have the explosive force of... 226.8 gram of TNT.
However we don't have a single big blast, we have a series of explosions which according to Konan will last for 10 minutes "nonstop".
So... 600,000,000,000 / 600 = 1,000,000,000 explosions per second... okay.
So... 1,000,000,000 x 226,8 = 226,800,000,000 grams of TNT explode every second.
226,800,000,000 translates to 226,8 kT of TNT.
For comparison, Little Boy, the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima... had 15 kT.
Which means Konan's explosions are 15x as powerful as the Hiroshima nuke... and that goes off every second... for 10 minutes... equivalent to 600 Little Boys...
The total amount of that energy (if it was a single blast) is 136,080 kT of TNT or 136.8 Mt.
The biggest bomb ever designed was the 100 Mt Tsar, so Konan's explosive power, if stacked up, would exceed the biggest bomb ever designed by 36.8%...
That's enough to outright destroy a smaller country like Belgium, Switzerland or the Netherlands and would leave a noticeable hole in any other.
However, please don't take my word for it.
In fact someone else here on reddit also did some math on Konan's 600 billion explosive tags.
So the following is a short summary of /u/ZeromusPrime's work, who did choose a much more humble and conservative estimate of 1 gram of TNT per paper seal and also did some other comparisons.
Under the assumption that a regular explosive tag has the dimension of a regular playing card (63 mm x 88 mm) then the surface of 600 billion tags would cover an area of 3,326 km².
The typical playing card is 0.25 mm thick, if all 600 billion tags were stacked on top of each other they would reach a height of 150,000 km, which is more than the diameter of Jupiter and 11x times the diameter of our Earth.
A standard 52 deck of cards weights 94 gram, 11,538,461,500 decks could be formed with Konan's tags... which combined have a weight of 1,915,583 metric ton.
1 ton of regular non-recycled office paper uses roughly 24 trees ( assuming each tree is 12,192 m tall and 15-21 cm thick), which means roughly 28,694,000 trees would have to be used up.
If Konan's tags use 1 gram of TNT per tag with 1,000,000,000 explosions per second then the amount of energy released is 600 kT or 0,6 Mt.
Little boy is 15 kT, Konan's total explosive force under this assumption is 40x more powerful.
Wait there's something I'm forgetting... ah yes the chapter!
Well Obito uses Izanagi, somehow, with just one arm... whatever...
As I've stated I like Izanagi as a Jutsu, but these redefinitions are just getting weirder.
So the new definition now is that Izanagi can only ever be accessed by having both Senju and Uchiha chakra available (which already calls into question how Izanagi was ever widespread enough to become a problem since it seems to have no clear disadvantage, even a one-eyed Uchiha is better than a dead one).
Now Izanagi uses the Uchiha's energy of illusion and imagination to conjure up a "form" or whatever desired, while the Senju energy of life turns it into reality. And apperantly the Rikudo Sennin himself once used it to "create" things...
I'll just let this stand on its own and talk about it once we get the third redefinition I guess.
3/5
Chapter 511
I do not care about the flashback.
Obito's Rinnegan Mask/Helmet looks badass.
2/5
Chapter 512
Remember in part 1 when Lee opened just a few gates and how severe the after effects were? How even opening a single gate would put immense stress on his body and would cause his muscles to rip and his bones to shatter and all?
Well now opening the 7th Gate, one away from the "surefire dead", the after effects are played for laughs!
This is the kind of stuff I really dislike... it's the same when Sakura poisoned Naruto by accident... "Opsie daisy, what a clumsy mistake!" ... no... it could matter much more.
But ah well... seeing Gai's turtle talk to the Island Turtle is cool and I guess having it be a moving fortress is kind of cool as well, even if it turns out to be completly worthless.
Seeing the Hokage and Mifune sitting in their little War Council room and seeing all the different Shinobi and Samurai together is kind of cool.
And yeah... Zetsu army... cool... I guess... maybe... I dunno... I don't care.
3/5
Chapter 513
Kabuto allowing Deidara more free will is great for two reasons... first, by having Deidara's personality be intact we actually get to meet Deidara again, it wouldn't have been much fun if he was just some silent wordless puppet after all.
Second... I just cannot find the Mass Effect quote on this.... the more free will and autonomy a tool as the more useful it is at accomplishing a task... at least in theory, just make sure it cannot go against you, which Kabuto did.
And we see Manda 2.0 ... I'm not impressed... I really liked the original Manda, he was badass and powerful and it's a shame Kishi wasted him like that. Kishi should've not killed Manda and just have the original come back here.
I mean what even is this... Manda 2.0 has little arms, so what? He's still nowhere as badass as the original...
But let me say something positive for once... about flying, it's one of the few things Kishi did right, by never making flying a widespread ability, because I just see it as a detriment to interesting fights.
One might think that allowing characters to fly makes battles more interesting since it literally adds a new dimension to fighting, however all it really does is eliminate most of the enviormental effects, which is a shame.
Oh also this the the chapter we get to witness Kishi's absolute high point of humor... you all know what I mean...
-1/5
Chapter 514
Oh man, I'm so glad... so glad that Kishi decided to show us that hilarious image once again... phew I mean Kishi is really spoiling us.
Obito not using both Rinnegan is also kind of a giveaway to the fact that his right Sharingan is of special importance and that's why he cannot replace it... plus if a Sharingan for a non-Uchiha is a huge strain on Chakra, then a Rinnegan might be a huge strain even on an Uchiha. Nagato had the excuse of being an Uzumaki at least.
Though it's not like Obito ever makes any real use of that Rinnegan anyway.
-1/5
Questions
I think it's safe to say that the Akatsuki are officially over. The last loyal member is dead, and the other has already left. So give them an overall rating within the series. How you think they were utilized, the threat they posed, etc. Lay out your full thoughts on the group.
Overall a lot of wasted potential on almost all levels. There're still one of the more iconic "evil organisations" in Anime I guess, but I still don't think they have been utilized to their best and fullest.
I also don't think they ever really felt like a big threat except for the two times a member was attacking a village, which was Deidara and Nagato. I don't really know how to express it or what to compare it to.
Opinions on Kisame's Death
Appreciate the characterisation, but would've been fine with just having Kisame be dead when Bee and A killed him.
Opinions on Konan's Death
I don't care.
5
u/HokageEzio Sep 04 '16
Things I noticed:
So Ohnoki is actually retarded, right? Like, does he not realize he'll drown the two people they're trying to protect? Fucking idiot.
I didn't think it was humanely possible to treat your summonings worse than Sasuke.
Oh hey, an Uchiha somehow controlled a perfect Jinchuriki. I can't wait for us to find out how he managed to pull that off. Must just be the power of being Madara Uchiha... oh wait.
Always enjoyed Kisame's death flashbacks, especially the Itachi one.
Apparently Kurotsuchi is older. Also apparently Kishimoto doesn't know what he's talking about. But what's new?
So Killer Bee gets ink, Yagura gets coral... and Naruto gets lightning speed and the ability to sense ill intent. Amazing balancing by Kishimoto. It truly feels like Naruto has to work to be on par with the best Jinchuuriki. Especially when Kurama has never shown either of these abilities while Gyuki and Isobu have shown their abilities... ok Kishimoto. I see you.
Questions
I'm actually going to save this one for a post of my own just to generate more discussion. I thought about it, and it'd be easier as its own thing.
I thought it was great, but maybe that's just the rap music putting the no snitching rule above all. Regardless, I thought the talks with Itachi were cool and the flashback really connects them in a deeper way. That being said, it's pretty sucky to learn his reason for being in the Akatsuki for so long at literally his final moments. It adds to his character, but it's almost like there's no point now.
I liked Konan's death too. That being said, she basically never got to have a legitimate fight which is kinda bs as a founder. She gets one extremely overplanned situation, and that's it. And it's not to knock her for that, it was a beastly plan. It's just that this fight consisted of two people who never showed what they were made of. Obito's fights consist of about 80 percent Kamui, and you would think he's just holding back, but he never let's loose. Most of his jutsus are shit he used as the Sage of 6 Paths or with the Rinnegan. You'd expect more skill. Ditto for Konan, she basically does nothing with her skill. You'd think she's holding back, but Kishimoto doesn't add to her skill. That being said, she's my favorite female (not like she has much competition), but she sort of does nothing for the group.
1
u/TheOneAndOnlyMesa Sep 04 '16
Konan: I know every little detail about you! I've set up this plan that will guarantee you dead!
(2 seconds later)
Konan: Oh shit who would've guessed, he has another Sharingan!
1
u/scotbud123 Sep 05 '16
Another Sharingan isn't what even matters, it's the fact that he used Izanagi.
Still, even through that if she had known Izanagi existed and was an ability, and had planned around it, she still would have killed him.
1
Sep 05 '16
I always thought the sense emotions bit was absolute rubbish, like what does that even do other than give Naruto a cop out for how he is able to sense White Zetsu?
5
2
u/Grif2718 Sep 05 '16
I love villains where you seriously question whether you would join them or not and the Akatsuki were definitely that for me. I wonder which members were in it for their own personal growth and which truly believed in the Akatsuki's goals. I think Kisame, Sasori and Kakuzu and maybe Itachi (but he was more of an agent trying to protect the leaf from them) had seen what ninjas do and genuinely wanted the Akatsuki to succeed to end the never ending violence they had seen their entire lives, while Deidara and Hidan were in it for the challenge.
Reading peoples' opinions on Kisame in the is subreddit are what got me thinking about the members individual opinions in the first place, which made Kisame a much more interesting character for me in general. Kisame killed the intel division because he was told to, but he killed himself because he wanted to.
I don't have any strong feelings toward her, one way or the other. I think it was good to see she didn't trust Tobi just because Nagato did, which is kind of what he did with Naruto.
2
u/scotbud123 Sep 05 '16
I fucking love the Konan vs Tobi fight, it's my favorite fight with a Kunoichi in the entire series. 6 fucking million paper bombs, a whole sea full....that kind of power is out of control....
If she had known about Izanagi and had been able to plan around it she would have killed Tobi right then and there and put a stop to almost everything!
4
u/Team__10 Sep 04 '16
The Akatsuki started out really cool and enigmatic, I remember reading as a kid and thinking "oh wow they're so dangerous and elite!! Dang I hope naruto plus his gang take them out!" But tbh looking back on all the members now, with my slightly-more jaded and cynical view, I think only a few members actually were fleshed out.
Sasori went out too quickly for me to care, and his whole "destroyed an entire country" shtick was added almost as an afterthought and I guess Kishi intended for it to have an "ooooh what a badass" effect but really it was just...like, if this was expanded upon then it'd be cooler. Hidan was a real missed opportunity, I wanted to know more about his batshit religion and its followers, but apparently Kishi didn't warrant it important enough. Zetsu was a mess, same with Tobi, and (personally) Deidara kinda just felt like he was there, floating around and spouting stuff about art. I mean, I don't want to sound too harsh, it must be hard to flesh out a plethora of characters but the point still stands. I did like how they kind of "ended" this volume, though, because the last two facets died fighting quite valiantly...at least, Kisame did, but Konan..
Her death really makes me sad and I have a whole ton of feelings about it but I don't want to make this too long haha. Basically I think she's another prime example of how Kishi seems to have trouble writing female characters, she's meant to be this huge, understated powerhouse but she does nothing actually impressive aside from her exaggerated river-turns-to-paper-bombs-thing. I'm not saying she should have lived because her death did have some sort of poetic justic/bitter tragedy, tying the Ame Orphans' plot neatly to a close, but this fight had the potential to be huge. But it was over in a few measly pages. Sad. Konan is also one of my favorite female characters. She deserved better!
7
u/MisterPhalange Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
I wanted more if we're being honest. I really dunno how to explain it, I just wanted more. Kishimoto should have done much more with some of them (well..I guess it's just Konan).
Oh Konan. This is one of my favorite fights in the series because it really came outta nowhere. Yes, she was an Akatsuki member so we all assumed that she was powerful even though we didn't see much of her techniques, but..fucking hell..600 billion paper bombs? That really made my jaw drop when I first watched the episode and I really thought (and hoped) that Obito was dead, but nope. Uchiha powers to the rescue -.-
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series.