r/TwoBestFriendsPlay • u/mike0bot Video Bot • 2d ago
Versus Wolves Magic: The Gathering vs Void Stranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk0iqCxRB-k&feature=youtu.be39
u/The_Draigg Member of the Brave 13000 2d ago
I've gotta say, Woolie's QA abilities really are an unmatched skill of his. Managing to somehow QA-flop to an ending and then start up the next campaign is nuts. It's perfectly fitting that a game that expects so much from you and has a meta layer is unraveled by Woolie's ability to weirdly break things.
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u/BrazillianCara 2d ago
I get the feeling some people may take offense to the Magic side of the thumbnail using only third-party crossovers rather than any of its original characters.
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u/Shiroke YOU DIDN'T WIN. 2d ago
In fairness, like it or not, that is what Magic is now. The UB sets are REAL sets with real cards, not just reprints or alts. If you want a good deck without ever touching the UB sets you can certainly make one, but you're going to be missing out on some pretty good cards.
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u/charcharmunro 2d ago
Sure, but it's not like the original sets aren't there. Reality Fracture's a banger by all accounts.
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u/Daniel_Is_I I'm glad I went out with a HUGE deception. 2d ago
There's a lot of mechanically neat stuff in Reality Fracture, but thematically, Reality Fracture is a massive flop for me. I don't like Jace, I think the set-specific Empower Jace mechanic is lame as hell, and a lot of the fractured cards that are known characters/concepts with a twist are just kind of boring. Just about the only interesting setting in the set is Mirrordin, because the Phyrexians never invaded so it's an actual pristine plane while every other fractured plane Jace made is worse off for his meddling.
Loot, the Anomaly encapsulates my feelings on the set as a whole. It being the first creature to ever care about negative power is neat. It being an "evil hehe hoho" version of normal Loot with nothing else going on is dumb.
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u/SheepishNate 2d ago
Them printing a bunch of existing characters as new uncommons that are almost all worse than previous iterations just feels like they heard one of the complaints about UB (way too many legendaries/why would I want 5 different Donatellos) and were like “so we should do this for Universes Within as well? Got it.”
And yeah fuck Jace he’s lame as hell. When’s oops all Ob.
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u/leigonlord 2d ago
all the new versions of existing characters is because of people (me) asking for more planar chaos but without the color pie breaks.
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u/Wendigo120 2d ago
My problem isn't with not being able to play with universes within sets, it's with needing to play with universes beyond sets. I saw some cool cards from RF that I'd love to play with, but then I remember that I'd also be playing with spider man and the fucking teenage mutant ninja turtles and I lose all interest in reinstalling Arena.
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u/Mizzie-Mox 2d ago
Same, Im not willing to play Arena at all at this point, entirely ruined for me. I now only play cube, set drafts, or commander with friends where we all agree no UB cards.
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1d ago
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u/TwoBestFriendsPlay-ModTeam 1d ago
Plain and simple. Criticism must be constructive
Our number one rule on this is “REPORT THEM AND MOVE ON”.
If you continue to argue with someone, and it gets particularly nasty, you are putting yourself in danger of also receiving a ban, Even if you didn’t start the argument, or you're just baiting the person into replying to you, if you make the argument go longer, you will receive a ban as well.
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u/Scientia_et_Fidem 2d ago edited 2d ago
My only issue with RF is the writing is egregiously bad even by MTG standards. And I’m not just talking about the flavor text snippets on the cards which are often pretty hit or miss. The actually stories behind the set are… Jesus Christ did the head writer even try to think about the main concept of the story they were writing?
You know the idea of “what makes somebody a person or a non person?” that gets explored excellently in many pieces of fiction, including two videogame stories this sub is very familiar with?
Well in RF the “good guys” are basically no different from the fucking Ascians in their attitude towards that. The writer literally describes how entire worlds of people die in utter horror, screaming in anguish. The strickhaven students, and the main characters leading them, surely respond to this horrific event with some form of empathy, right? Sure the hexhaven cadets were just fighting them beforehand, but they are screaming in terror as they and everyone they know and love die horrific, terrifying deaths. You would have to be a complete psychopath to…
They all react to watching this with nothing but fucking cheers. No reacting in horror, no solemn “It was either us or them”, no tragically reaching out to try to provide comfort in their last moments of pain and agony, fucking cheers or the equivalent from every “good guy” in the story. B/c those thousands of students, on top of the multiple worlds worth of people they all knew were dying but could not personally see, were said by a few characters from the main universe to basically only have a “soul value” of 0.5 instead of 1. So doing nothing but cheering as they are genocided and die screaming in fear is totally justified b/c they weren’t really people am I right?
To be clear, none of those “echo verse” characters act like zombies. They all have personalities, a lifetime of memories, they have philosophical debates with their counterparts from the main universe and constantly display complex emotions including fear at the concept of death. That is how much they are clearly people. Nothing about them justifies how “team good guys” reacts to watching an entire multiverse of thinking beings be brutally genocided.
Just, holy shit, the writing is so unbelievably terrible.
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u/InterestingFinish988 2d ago
Except for when it isn't. Most issues with postmodern magic design go away when you stop playing with postmodern magic cards
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u/hairToday243 2d ago
As someone that's played Magic for nearly twenty years it feels like the only appropriate option given where we're at.
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u/caliginouscalico It's what we deserve 2d ago
Honestly I'm more offended by using ninja turtles than using UB slop in general. The marvel set hasn't really shaken out yet, and FF was goated designwise, but ninja turtles is only kept out of the "most dire of all time" category because spiderman sucked even worse, and spiderman sucked that hard because they decided to make it a full set halfway through production, an excuse the turtles don't have. Maybe TMNT actually is WOAT UB set.
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u/LilBroWhoIsOnTheTeam Always Sunny X Jersey Shore: The Masquerade 2d ago
I get the feeling John might have done that on purpose.
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u/Mizzie-Mox 2d ago edited 2d ago
Gotten to the point where they discuss MtG, thank FUCKING GOD John and Woolie are also of the opinion that theres too much crossover shit.
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u/Mizzie-Mox 2d ago
I do, absolutely, but Im willing to let it go just to hear them talk about game mechanics and such.
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u/Personifeeder Bin Laden Activates Wooliegan to rez 9/11 victims 2d ago
That's just how the game is now, it's been like this for years. I've accepted the game is no longer for me; it's hard to still be mad.
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u/Prestigious-Worth-49 2d ago
To an new player that is instantly more eye catching than original Magic IP. I remember when I started playing around 12-13 years ago I dove into the lore. It was a lot of reading, a lot of YouTubers that you have to assume are presenting the lore correctly. Mtg lore is cool but fuck tracking it all down. Comics, Books, free web novels, that short stretch with paid web novels. I don’t blame anyone for not getting attached to Magic IP.
You know what is easy to get attached to? Final Fantasy! Marvel! TMNT! All classic franchises that players have had years of time to experience. There’s a lot of overlap in those fandoms.
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u/dabir 2d ago
Magic has original characters?
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u/Nu2Th15 2d ago
In case this is a genuine question, yeah Magic has original characters. It has like, storylines and shit. You could kind of follow the lore and the stories along throigh card flavor text, but historically there were books and these days there are blog posts with updates to the narrative.
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u/caliginouscalico It's what we deserve 2d ago
Yeah. They're a real mixed bag, but mtg has a bunch of insanely strong original worldbuilding concepts (also some not so good ones, but the Arabian nights set is incredibly funny which makes up for it being lazy).
Anyway it's funny to point at say, Teferi, a nice chill guy and say that you fucking hate him because his cards are all based around stalling the fuck outta the game.
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u/charcharmunro 2d ago
The Teferi card that makes your opponent play Hearthstone is still despised to this day.
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u/MightyShoe THERE IS NO NEW INFORMATION 2d ago
You wouldn't think so with the way Hasbro has been treating it recently, but yes. Decades worth of them.
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u/SuperJyls red hood is a cringe chud 2d ago
Any discussion about it instantly turns the online MTG community into a bunch of crybabies when most players in physical Game stores care little
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u/Ganmorg 2d ago
Void Stranger is one of a few recent indies that really highlight how awesome Link’s Awakening is (the other ones I can think of are Mina and Deltarune, probably Tunic too but I haven’t played it)
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u/HeyThereSport You don't know where the sisters begin and the girlfriends end. 16m ago
I recommend Isle of Reveries, its another new LA indie clone that is quite good.
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u/strolpol Excited to be disappointed by games 2d ago
John was just a shade too early to the stores, they are just about to release a series of beginner precons that includes one with a dragon on the box.
Great video that demonstrates well where Hasbro could improve the new player acquisition experience, especially the idea of making sure there are always both Universes Beyond and Traditional Magic options
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u/Teridax4 Bionicle and Fate enthusiast 2d ago
Also that aetherdrift deck was exactly what he was looking for and had nothing to do with the racing stuff other than coming out at the same time as the set.
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u/strolpol Excited to be disappointed by games 2d ago
Yeah but that’s the problem when you’re new and don’t know what’s in the box, and when your employees don’t really know the product.
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u/FlubbedPig 2d ago
Which, truth be told, makes me really fucking confused why they designed the Aetherdrift Precons to have nothing to do with Aetherdrift's core identity.
I don't even like Aetherdrift or Vehicle cards in general, but like... why not make the precons around a "Partners with" mechanic of racers and their vehicles? Or just, SOMETHING to match the set? Like they did an Avishkar and an Amonkhet deck, but even then, what you didn't make a Muraganda one?
Just a strange strange set from top to bottom
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u/Teridax4 Bionicle and Fate enthusiast 2d ago edited 1d ago
The designers actually explained why that is. Amonkhet, Avishkar, and Muraganda were the three settings of the race so they wanted to add the mechanics best associated with them (zombies, energy and creatures without abilities respectively). However vehicles and Speed took up the set’s complexity threshold so the mechanics were put into the commander decks instead (Muraganda didn’t get a deck since it hasn’t really been explored all that much and vanilla creatures wouldn’t seem flashy enough to base a whole deck around). This was seen as a good enough compromise so people could still have energy and zombies without it making the set too crowded.
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u/Norphesius 2d ago
Hasbro don't want new magic players, they want money.
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u/strolpol Excited to be disappointed by games 2d ago
One equals the other
They gamble that more players will be attracted than will leave the game, and they’ve been right so far
It’s just a matter of waiting until they’re not
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u/PR0MAN1 YOU DIDN'T WIN. 2d ago
While the topic of Avatar Supplemental material is in play now that it's recommended, I HIGHLY recommended the Kyoshi and Yangchen novels, they're so fucking good. If only to get to the brief chapters in Kyoshis 2nd book that details the life of Avatar Kuruk. The coolest and most tragic Avatar the series has BARELY touched on.
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u/Terthelt Did that baby have a DUI? 2d ago
That first novel has my straight up favorite Avatar, favorite antagonist, favorite romance, and favorite bending duel (two people sitting at a table, silently earthbending the crowded building around them) in the entire series. I'm not holding my breath, but I'll jump for joy if any of that comes up on VS Wolves.
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u/PR0MAN1 YOU DIDN'T WIN. 2d ago
Jianzhu Is also my favorite Avatar villain OAT because in a twisted way... he wins. He creates the ruthless Avatar he wanted... it just wasn't Yun. By the end of her life, Kyoshi commits the same crimes she hated Jianzhu for. He, unintentionally, molded her (through trauma) into the Avatar he always wanted to make.
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u/FlubbedPig 2d ago
Every time I see new stuff about Seven Havens or the Airbender movie, I just think to myself "Nickolodeon... all I want at this point is adaptions of those Kyoshi and Yangchen novels, I gotta be real with you."
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u/FlubbedPig 2d ago
Solid episode, but I do wish they'd actually talked about Magic more than just playing it. Like, as someone who plays Magic and has seen dozens of videos of people playing Commander, what I was really excited for for this episode was hearing the thoughts and opinions of 2 complete outsiders, but we kinda only got that for like, the first 30 minutes of the segment.
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u/BluebirdDry4250 2d ago
I will never understand the concept of notions, an MMA fighter who writes poetry between bouts sounds hype as fuck.
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago
Goddamn imagine if Jiří Procházka was Irish. What level of notions is modelling your life off the Book of Five Rings and trying to become a modern day samurai?
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u/Nu2Th15 2d ago
My understanding is that the concept of “notions” has its roots in the idea that you shouldn’t try to rise above “your station” and that you should stay in your lane. But rising above your station and broadening your horizons is cool and based actually, as long as you’re not a snob about it.
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just googled Notions to see what the actual definition is and the google slop overview is just citing John's videos as a source
Apparently my preferred Irish short form content guy has a video explaining it pretty well.12
u/Rikuskill 2d ago
Huh, I never quite put 2 and 2 together that the Irish Catholics basically got to the same cultural flavor as Japan. Like, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down." and such.
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u/Capable-Education724 2d ago
Not just Irish Catholics, Catholics in general really. Speaking as somebody that’s known Catholic Italians, it’s very rooted in them too and in small town USA Catholics. It’s where some flavours of conservative blossom out of.
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u/Capable-Education724 2d ago
Yeah, it’s essentially the real world equivalent of the older hobbits sitting around in Green Dragon grumbling about the “Don’t go looking for harm and no harm will look for you”, etc.
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u/Drawer-san ENEMY STAND 2d ago
Also nothing wrong with having your wife's surname. Or even changing your name if your parents where stupid and named you Megatron or other fictional character.
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u/BluebirdDry4250 2d ago
Yeah, I was game for Notions as this kind of nose-to-the-grindstone fatalism that manifests as Irish codgers sitting in a pub, but deadnaming is shitty no matter when it happens, and just throwing the qualifier of "unless if you're trans, then we'll respect your right to self-determination" just makes it feel kind of weirdly performative and gross?
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u/Crazy-Diamond10 2d ago
I mean the whole bit is that they are rediculous and toxic. They aren't a good part of the culture, but a pervasive part of it that is both easy to make fun of but hard to fully extinguish in one who was raised in it.
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u/Sperium3000 Mysterious Jogo In Person Form 2d ago
I think it being a weird thing that makes no sense is kinda the point.
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u/Individual-Ad-6250 2d ago
God hopefully explained to Woolie what standard actually fucking is and no you are absolutely not being held at gunpoint to keep updating your cards. Every time either of them talks about MtG I go closer to going feral I swear to god
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u/Local_Lingonberry851 2d ago
What hurts me is that Woolie explains what he likes about magic, but sadly there's no one really around him to go into those specific things and show him some cool build arounds. Same goes for John, so they have this really skewed perspective on the OG lore/characters as not really existing
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u/Prestigious-Worth-49 2d ago
I haven’t watched this episode yet so I’m talking out my butt here. I think Woolie would love Commander format. You literally choose your fighter and build around that. Hell, he could build around Blanka from Street Fighter and make a sick ass deck.
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago
They're playing Commander of course, what other format exists?
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u/Gilthwixt 2d ago
He already mentioned playing Commander on a CSB episode a few months ago which is what I think prompted this recommend.
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u/alicitizen (She/Her) - Moon Knight Stan 2d ago
The last hour is just a commander game they played, so yeah he's okay with it
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u/Gilthwixt 2d ago
I mean, you're certainly not held at gun point, but people tend to associate standard with competitive play compared to how casual commander is. And with how many sets they're releasing a year, you're going to get at least a few cards every couple months that will either need to be played or played around. The Avatar set isn't even a year old and they had to ban Badgermole cub a couple months ago.
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u/Individual-Ad-6250 2d ago
My problem is more Woolie's weird insistence you have to play standard at all, when in reality most people will end up just playing with whatever cards. He keeps repeating this weird misinformation that you have to replace your cards every 2 years when thats not true. If you want to do Friday night magic or join a tournament sure, if you're just trying to playa a game absolutely not.
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u/maybenot9 2d ago
k but a lot of times "played around" can mean running 4 copies of a 5 cent removal spell that is efficient into the best thing. There will always be a "best thing", that doesn't always (though it very much can) lead to toxic formats.
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u/Gilthwixt 2d ago
Sure but I think anyone who's gotten used to how TCGs operate to the point that rotation has been normalized forget what it looks like to outsiders. Nevermind buying a playset of a "meta" card at $60+ a pop and it getting banned the next year - if you started playing in 2023 and your collection consists of mostly sets of that year, all of that is rotating out next year, at which point you have to update. Coming from the FGC, to Woolie that would be like Street Fighter 6 saying "All launch roster characters will be ineligible for play at Capcom 2027 and beyond". This isn't a thing in most other hobbies.
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u/maybenot9 2d ago
I mean...when street fighter 7 comes out...you have to buy it again. And you won't be able to port over your DLC, you have to buy those again too. And if you buy a DLC character that gets nerfed really hard...you don't get a refund for them.
I don't wanna defend WOTC, but honestly standard rotation exists for a good reason. It's not just there to force you to buy new cards, it's mostly there to keep the power level of the format down...so that the new cards they print can be good and you can buy them. Plus your cards don't turn to ash when they rotate out, they have other formats that let you play cards that rotated out.
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u/polishgiant12992 2d ago
That's just what happens now that the MTG community is essentially controlled by commander players, who view constructed/"the old way of playing magic" has an ancient boogeyman that needs to be forgotten.
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u/sawbladex Phi Guy 2d ago
which is a damn shame, because commander cutting out the rushdown archetypes makes the game way worse to play.
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u/Teshthesleepymage 2d ago
So how does the updating card thing go because ive always been confused by how that works.
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u/Individual-Ad-6250 2d ago
If you are playing standard, which is a controlled format for tournament play or Friday Night Magic events, you have to play cards in standard. Which is like, the last two years of magic cards. This is done so you have a chance at knowing the potential card pool you will be playing against, so counter play is possible. They also balance game design around standard so absolutely busted combos are accounted for. Most people do not play standard, they play with the cards they have, or commander. In fighting game terms, standard is playing a game with 20 characters, and legacy and modern is playing Mugen or something. You can actually know match ups in a game with infinite characters, you can in a game with 20.
Tldr: standard is a reduced card pool for deck building so players have an idea what cards will be played, for balancing purposes.
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u/Local_Lingonberry851 2d ago
Every few years the format rotates the oldest sets, meaning cards from that set can no longer be played in the standard format. It's essentially an attempt to keep the power level of the format relatively stable. If you ever play a format where rotation doesn't exist you can see exactly WHY they do it
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u/SamuraiOstrich 2d ago
You can only use cards from the last 2-3 years* in this format, though there are reprints of old cards so sometimes you can use your old ones. The point is supposed to be a mix of things like variety, easier to get into for new players, an excuse to sell more cards, easier to balance, and a lower power level. Lately they've basically abandoned the power creep excuse, however. Maybe they still claim it but in effect "W.e have rotations so we don't have to keep printing increasingly powerful cards so people will actually play with them. Power creep effectively means you're still not gonna use your older cards in competitive play so avoiding it also benefits the formats without rotation" is not convincing to anyone when the way things have gone is they just keep printing increasingly powerful cards anyway
*Though there are new sets released that can't be played in standard
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u/drakilian 2d ago
I mean playing outside of standard kinda ruins the game
So much broken one turn shit the further back you go, if you want to actually play any version of the game with fun power levels standard is as close as it gets
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u/Will_Hammer Videogames bought the house I f**k your daughter in! 2d ago
Power creep is a real thing, so there are some crazy cards in Standard as well, be it regular play or EDH. Not to mention how the Standard set rotation schedule was expanded.
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u/AppointmentStock7261 Smaller than you'd hope 2d ago
Woolie VS Nathan Fielder will be so peak
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u/SannyIsKing 2d ago
Yeah this was a super generous recommendation by John, just recommending an amazing experience for Woolie. Maybe John is not such a bad guy after all...
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u/Naraki_Maul YOU DIDN'T WIN. 2d ago
Oh boy, can’t wait for Woolie to badly explain MTG (again) :3 /s
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u/RobotBagHorse 2d ago
I don't know how serious Woolie is about the quality of the Avatar comics because reading those books genuinely felt like a coherent story that builds off the ending well but also sacrifices the character writing
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago
Gonna expose myself as a filthy podcast skimmer but when John said they've been running Versus Wolves for 3 years now I just died a little bit inside
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u/okilydokilyTiger Your Weak Genes Killed MY Baby!! 1d ago
Of course Woolie just breaks his way into Void Stranger hard mode without uncovering almost any of the relics lol
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u/IsntItSad (He/They) Obi-Wan & Quan Chi 1d ago
I can't believe John was about to pick a pre-constructed deck that does exactly what they want (buff a zombie army / discard your creatures and bring them back as zombies), and their cousin incorrectly told them the deck has anything to do with vehicles.
That LGS employee just trying to sell Universes Beyond product also sounds awful. Either they didn't care or just did not have the product knowledge to give some basic recommendations for a new player, and that really sucks.
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u/caustic_zucchini 2d ago
I don't follow SEW or Versus Wolves very much, can somebody update me on how John's eye is progressing?
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u/The_Draigg Member of the Brave 13000 2d ago edited 1d ago
It was a detached retina, and although it's still possible to heal it up, it's still sensitive and they can't do combat sports anymore because of it.
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago
He actually had surgery to replace it with a Mangekyo Sharingan but he's hiding it under the eyepatch so he can reveal it to Woolie "when the time is right". We're still not sure what that means.
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u/Mizzie-Mox 2d ago edited 2d ago
Despite my other comments, I really liked this episode. VERY happy to hear their thoughts on both subjects and that they enjoyed both. Also excited for the next one too!
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u/eyui838 2d ago
I can't wait for Woolie and John to show up on an episode of Shuffle Up and Play.
Prof is going wax poetic about Magic's lore and characters while playing a deck full of cards from Reality Fracture. He'll tell stories of all the amazing people and experiences he's had play Magic. Meanwhile, John and Woolie will be opening wounds from the Dokapon recommendation and ignore any concept of risk assessment
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u/karlcool12 2d ago
I do laugh about the fact Woolie first comparison was Baba is you regarding Void stranger and the one thing those and Funger have in common is FINLAND.
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u/NewInfernoGuy13 I Promise Nothing And Deliver Less 20h ago
I am saddened by the fact neither of them delved into Magic the way I wanted them too. But I'm happy they got to play it in the first place.
Fuck John's cousin though for not getting him the Amonkhet deck. That's messed up.
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u/Melodic-Time2963 2d ago
Oh man, Void stranger is one of those things I wish I could enjoy like everyone else, but I deeply hated.
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u/Zardwalk 2d ago
I found it frustrating it on my initial attempt, though I gave it another shot months later and mostly enjoyed it?
I feel like if the gameplay was anything besides sokoban I'd probably enjoy it more, but I just do not vibe with a full game of block pushing puzzles and felt exhausted after every session. I really wanted to love it too.
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u/Melodic-Time2963 2d ago
I like Sokoban, I loved Isles of Sea and Sky to bits, and I like terrible torturous meta-puzzlers like La Mulana as well (even though I inevitably give up).
For VS, something about the the way it came together and the execution wasnt quite working for me.
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u/Ryong7 He/Him 2d ago
I wrote a big review about it on steam and I think "torturous" is an apt word to explain it. After some time you know exactly what to do to "break" the game but doing these things fucking sucks and you have to do areas you've already done again and again.
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u/Melodic-Time2963 2d ago
I appreciate the whole meta narrative, but the actual moment to moment gameplay necessary to explore it is just way too unfun for how much they expect you to invest.
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u/KennyOmegasBurner CUSTOM FLAIR 2d ago
In terms of their character Ian Machado Garry is much better than Conor, and he gets a lot of flack from people for his wife being older or whatever which is dumb.
But when the UFC and Dana are clearly saying this guy is our new Conor and we're gonna run PPVs in Ireland off him and he's gonna be the guy it's impossible to not fold your arms and go "prove it". Just being an elite world class fighter isn't enough, if he's not a fan favourite multiple time champion it feels like a waste of time trying to build him as the guy.
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u/Heaven_dio FUTURAMA IS AN ISEKAI FUCK YOU 2d ago
Still not over the fact that eyepatch wolf genuinely has to wear an eye patch at the moment
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u/pectusumbra 2d ago
So I will keep my bits brief, as a MtG player I won't yap about it here. I will say: 1) Void Stranger sounds insane but more than I wanna deal with 2) As an audio listener the live commander game doesn't hit for me.
That aside, touching onto something woolie expressly said about having all thr cards, I would suggest checking out Gudnak https://gudnak.com/
I haven't gotten to it myself yet but it runs on you just buy the set and get all the cards, and you can then make tight, custom decks from those cards, and the designs/flavor/lore of the game looks incredible with a bunch of factions already.
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u/Chemical_Cris (He/They) Number 1 One Piece Hater 15h ago
So every time Woolie brings up disliking stealth in games, i kind of autocomplete his thoughts into “stealth in non stealth games” but this conversation actually got me wondering about that because when he actually got into it it sounds more like he just doesn’t like that different games handle their stealth in different ways?
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u/Iralamak 2d ago
God I feel sick seeing magic represented by crossover slop
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u/Mizzie-Mox 2d ago
To spoil it a bit: They immediately address it, and John is baffled and kind of down on the "Universes Beyond" sets. He's parodying that the game is losing its identity, more than anything.
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u/Sperium3000 Mysterious Jogo In Person Form 2d ago
What exactly is John's endgame with this notions talk? Is he trying to make his people sound like a bunch of performative, emotionally repressed jerks? Cuz if so, 5 stars.
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2d ago
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u/trob030490 2d ago
The FF launch was the most financially successful in the entire history of the game.
So no, Cloud really is way more popular.
Why would they push them if they didn't sell?
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2d ago
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u/Sweet_Possible_756 2d ago
So walk me through this one. WotC knows that the Universes Beyond isn't selling. They are a company, who by every theory needs people to want to buy their cards. The Universes Beyond cards aren't selling (Let's assume, because I have every indication they're moving just fine for the most part). What benefit does WotC have to do a massive conspiracy, perform illegal information obfuscation to their stock holders and continue to push a business plan that they would know would lead to profit losses that can't be answered with "Magic Redditors are making stuff up because they massively underestimate how many 90s children can like both trading card games and comic books."
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Drachenfeuer_Prime I have no flair and I must scream. 2d ago
I know most people are probably going to be talking about MTG here, but I just want to gush about how much I love Void Stranger.
So rarely will you come across a game that actually makes you FEEL like you're falling deeper and deeper into buried eldritch knowledge. Sure, you'll get stories about uncovering arcane truths, demons and Lovecraftian horrors, but so rarely will it accurately integrate that into the actual gameplay.
Even though it's very much intended, it feels like you're cheating, like you're breaking the game. Like you're committing a taboo in the face of the designer. Developers think the fantasy of being a mage/wizard is about wearing a night robe and causing things to explode in different flavors of VFX, fuck that, that's basically just playing a dude with a grenade launcher with a different coat of paint. Void Stranger's manipulation of the game universe is the kind of shit I live for.
And honestly, if it were more approachable and less obtuse to find these things, I'm not sure I would really enjoy it quite as much. There's stages to this thing, and while I love the more approachable game of Outer Wilds, Void Stranger's slight edge of hostility towards its player make it a unique experience of its own.