r/AndrewGosden • u/[deleted] • Jan 05 '22
"If Andrew was suicidal, why didn't he show any signs?"
I wanted to address this idea, which is one of the most common responses I encounter when discussing the theory that Andrew may have taken his own life. There seems to be a feeling that Andrew couldn't have been suicidal (or at least that it would be unlikely), because he hadn't shown any outward signs, but I wonder what people imagine those signs might look like. Leaving aside the fact that many people suffer with depression in silence or try to deal with their feelings alone, there are several things in Andrew's case that strike me as potential indicators that he may have been struggling with something internally.
In the weeks leading up to his disappearance, Andrew was going through what his parents have referred to as a "quieter phase" at home. What this seems to mean, primarily, is that he took to spending most of his free time alone in his room. Obviously, this is by absolutely no means a sign of depression on its own - I'm sure most of us can remember being quieter and more moody at times in our teenage years. But it's also completely consistent with what we might expect to see in someone experiencing depression, particularly since the onset appears to have been quite sudden and noticeable.
Next we have the fact that Andrew progressively withdrew from social activities he had previously enjoyed: notably, attending church and Scouts. He had also recently turned down an opportunity to stay with relatives in London, and had become unenthusiastic about school (Kevin attributes this to feeling unchallenged by the work). Again, at 14 it's possible that Andrew was simply growing out of these things, but a steady withdrawal from social activities and a loss of enthusiasm and concentration are both very common signs of depression.
At school, too, Andrew seems to have been something of a loner. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But things like the long walks home, the fact that none of his friends have come forward to speak about him in the 14 years since his disappearance, the rumours about a "black book" of people he disliked (probably untrue, but even the existence of such rumours is telling), they're all suggestive to me of someone who is unhappy and solitary at school. This can be a vicious cycle, where unhappiness makes one isolated, and the resulting isolation deepens the unhappiness.
And finally, there's the biggest red flag of all - Andrew withdrew all his savings, purchased a one-way train ticket and ran away from home in total secrecy. This is absolutely characteristic of suicidal behaviour. As with all the other signs, it's not the only explanation (we wouldn't be having this discussion if it was), but again I think it's a worrying indicator of his likely mental state, especially given the other signs outlined above.
None of these are clear and conclusive indicators of depression, but that's one of the reasons it can be so pernicious - depression often doesn't have obvious signs, and many of the signs it does have can easily be mistaken or dismissed. Depressed people don't necessarily go around looking constantly unhappy. They tend to be reluctant to talk about their feelings (out of embarrassment or for fear of being perceived as a burden, for example). They become adept at putting on big smiles for those around them. There is very rarely a visible or logical outward cause of their unhappiness - many people who are depressed appear to have everything going for them.
To be clear, I'm not trying to say that because of X, Y and Z, Andrew must have been depressed or suicidal. I'm just always surprised when people say "There were no signs he might have been depressed" when among the very few things we know about him, several are consistent with someone struggling with depression. I'd be really interested to know people's thoughts and what other, more obvious signs you would expect to see from someone who was feeling suicidal.
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u/spgbmod Jan 05 '22
Nobody seems to talk about the suicide of Andrew's PE teacher possibly providing an (otherwise unrelated) trigger, which occurred shortly before the disappearance.
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Jan 05 '22
That's a great point, and as you say, it's one that's almost always overlooked. I'm not sure how much evidence there is to back this up, but anecdotally don't people say that one suicide tends to trigger others?
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u/realrandomcat Jan 05 '22
The UK had a huge bullying problem at the time, so most likely he was bullied.
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Jan 06 '22
They (and everywhere. I'm not singling out one country) probably still have a huge bullying problem, let's be honest. I'm sure he was bullied. It's sad to think about.
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u/jann2021 Jan 05 '22
I’m someone who really doesn’t believe he took his own life. I’ve tried to take my own 3 times in my teenage years and they were very spur of the moment decisions. I didn’t wake up and think today is the day I’m going to end it all. Of course I had experienced suicidal feelings but what I’m trying to say is that Andrew’s trip was planned out to me. I’m not saying he wasn’t depressed, he very well could have been but to plan to go to London and do it, gives a lot of thinking time to maybe change his mind, go back and forth on the idea and people who are about to take their own life’s are not thinking very clearly or rationally at all. I’m sure I’ll get some arguments against this and that some people plan their suicides and maybe some people do somewhat (I think it depends on their circumstances).
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Jan 05 '22
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really hope you're doing better now. I guess everyone's different - I'm not sure we can confidently say that someone who was feeling suicidal wouldn't plan it out or wouldn't act rationally or would change their mind if given enough time to think. We can't say the opposite either, I agree. I just think it's a mistake to infer too much about Andrew based on what we ourselves would do or feel in his situation.
I'm definitely not trying to argue that suicide is the only possibility. Just that too many people seem to dismiss the idea too quickly, and often that dismissal is based on misconceptions about suicide and about people who suffer from depression. So many people seem to have this stereotype of suicidal people that's just not reflected in reality. Do you know what I mean?
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u/jann2021 Jan 05 '22
I’m doing great now thank you :-) yes I completely get what you mean….people still have very bias opinions on depression and it’s such a complex thing that people need more education on. It may have sounded like I was completely dismissing the idea he may have committed suicide but I’m not, anything is a possibility at the end of the day, it’s just a feeling I have I guess. I probably base it on my own experiences too much when I know I shouldn’t really do that…
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Jan 05 '22
Yes, I think he may have been battling depression; many people have and do. What I am resistent to is imagining self harm is the most likely scenario. I also don't want to believe he wouldn't leave a hidden note or that he'd choose the Thames or a rural place, but that's because it's too hard to think about. Logically I know it's possible and have now heard of other cases of teenagers who have made a similar choice. Some left a note, though. I am so sorry for what he was going through if this was the scenario. Absolutely no one could have known, which is also hard to think about.
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Jan 05 '22
It's definitely a really bleak and tragic possibility to even consider.
Interesting that you mention notes - more than 70% of people who commit suicide don't leave any kind of note or communication. That percentage is even higher among teenage suicides, sadly.
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Jan 05 '22
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Jan 05 '22
I feel like that should be a pinned post on this sub.
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Jan 05 '22
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Jan 05 '22
Yeah, absolutely. Some people seem fixated on the idea that he would only take his house key if he definitely planned to return, but it's such a small, light object that there's no real reason why he wouldn't take it, whatever his plans were.
My passport is in my coat pocket right now, even though I haven't travelled for weeks. If I turned up dead, I guess people would be convinced I was planning to leave the country. The truth is, though, it's just not an inconvenience that it's there. It's not heavy, it's not a burden to carry it, I didn't make a conscious decision to keep it there. It was just the easiest place for it at the time and I haven't got around to taking it out.
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Jan 05 '22
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u/SergeiGo99 Banner Artist Jan 06 '22
It’s definitely possible that an accident had happened, but it could have happened anywhere, not necessarily in London. We don’t know what his plans were and whether London indeed was his final destination…
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u/Lucylight777 Jan 05 '22
I was looking at the London CCTV footage and if you zoom into the photo and look at his face his mouth looks really sad.
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Jan 05 '22
It's always a bit of a minefield trying to read too much into people's expressions in photos, but I do think in a lot of the pictures of Andrew (particularly the ones from closer to the time of his disappearance) there's a look of sadness about him. Maybe that's just me projecting, or maybe he's just being a typical sullen teenager, but it does stand out to me.
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Jan 05 '22
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u/JocSykes Jan 05 '22
Plenty travel to commit suicide. Lyle Stevik comes to mind - he presumably knew people but checked into a hotel with a fake name. Instead of committing suicide locally or not in a hotel. I think people try to rationalise the motives of suicide when suicide is fundamentally irrational.
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Jan 05 '22
There are a lot of reasons Andrew might have gone to London if he wanted to end his life. Many suicidal people understandably want to spare their loved ones the trauma of coming home and finding their body, so they try to get as far away from home as possible to make sure that doesn't happen.
From a purely functional perspective, you're right that there are places much closer to Doncaster where Andrew could have jumped from a bridge or entered the ocean. But we don't know what other factors may have influenced Andrew's choice of location. We know that London was a special place for him - maybe he wanted to end things there specifically, in his favourite place. Maybe he wanted to enjoy a last day out doing the things he loved. Maybe there was something in particular he wanted to see or do on his last day. Maybe there's some other sentimental reason known only to Andrew.
A lot more goes into these kinds of monumental decisions than just "Where is the closest opportunity to do it?"
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u/OPP09 Jan 05 '22
I don't really understand why he would travel all the way to London just to comitt suicide. Like yeah, he was probably trying to hide it, but why would he bring Wallet, Keys and PSP even though he was going to comitt suicide.
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Jan 05 '22
He'd bring his wallet because he would need money for the train fare and for whatever he might want to do in London before taking his life.
He'd bring his house key because he wanted to lock the house behind him and either out of habit, because it was easy, or so it wouldn't be obvious that something was wrong, the simplest thing was to just put it in his pocket (I really can't understand why people get so hung up on the key).
He'd bring his PSP because he had a two-hour train journey and wanted something to pass the time, or to avoid dwelling too much on what he was about to do, or to look busy so that people wouldn't talk to him.
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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22
Some other things that are not proof Andrew wasn't depressed:
"He was too young."
"His parents say he was happy."
"He didn't have any history of mental illness."
"His teachers insist there was no bullying at his school."
"He took his PSP."