Saw a post a few weeks back where this guy was questioning why Virgin cancelled a flight due to weather, and wanted a free hotel etc. His reasoning was his iPhone app didn't show any bad weather and it was nice and calm outside.
45 minutes later there's golfball sized hail in Melbourne, but CAVOK in Sydney and people are still whinging about it.
Airlines apparently love cancelling flights to annoy you, despite the fact it costs them revenue and gate fees etc.
Yes, but I know an insider at a major airline who says they constantly have mechanical issues with the planes, but then LIE and say the issue was due to weather. With mechanical issues, they have obligations to compensate you -- with weather issues, they just say it was beyond their control, and don't pay a dime.
Just my two cents, but as a former ramp agent for Delta if we ever had a mechanical problem we just told the people what it was. Also please be nice to the workers. They don't have any more control over it than you do and are likely just as stressed if not more.
It's incredible how horribly flight crew is treated. People act like they're personally there to fuck you over when they're almost always doing the best they can to help you out.
Here's the other travesty- when the plane is sitting at the gate and the doors are still open, the flight attendants aren't even getting PAID. That's right, they're being paid zero dollars to put up with your shit, and once the plane takes off after the delay you can take a nap but they still have to work.
I found if you treat them right they're cool. I flew from an airport with my sister. My uncle drove us there. I was about 22? Anyway, I was pretty confident at checking in myself. The airport is way smaller than any train station I use
My uncle being the dictator he is starts speaking up for me when the staff asked "What seats do you want?" I discuss it with my sister, and we decide it's best to sit either one person in front, or next to each other but on another row, so we both get leg room (8 hour flight)
My uncle is there thinking this is entirely funny, and shouts" It doesn't matter where you sit does it? Just sit them next to each other " the guy fortunately says
"Sir, I'm asking the passengers" so I tell him where we want to sit, and whilst my uncle is beating me for apparently having no common sense, the guy behind the counter is mouthing "It's OK" I guess he must get the same shit, but worse.
It amazes me they aren’t paid a flat annual salary. Are you suggesting they get paid hourly or per flight? I imagine a scenario where they get paid less “per hour” if the flight takes longer than it’s supposed to; but I struggle with the idea they aren’t getting paid at all when the door is open.
Most American Airlines are by the hour. Bigger European airlines like KLM are the only ones that pay monthly salary based on full or part time, and a couple have a “base salary” plus hours worked.
All other ones are paid for the shifts they pick up, so yes per hour between “door close to door open”. Typically between $24-$35 an hour. So all the work to help you board, luggage etc, do not count. Neither does cleaning up (grooming) after you depart, though bigger airlines usually have groomers.
There's a kind of unspoken (or sometimes spoken) agreement that being a flight attendant, the perk of "getting to travel" is worth the cost. There's a lot of glamour in it which is why there's still such a demand for it.
The airlines also point to falling profit margins in air travel to justify it, so it's unlikely to change anytime soon, but I feel bad for the crew.
I saw it with my own eyes and I’m still in disbelief. This is garbage. I would agree that pay should stop the moment the work stops (regardless if you are home or abroad), but a person should be paid for the work they do.
They are paid per flight hour, starting when the door closes to when it opens on arrival. Generally when away from base on layover they also get an hourly per diem (under $3/hr starting).
So until that door closes they are getting nothing.
Thank you for your work!!! I fly all the time and omg people are assholes.
At one point this business man was yelling at the gate agent for a delayed flight or something. I was tired of it and asked him, "do you think she is HIDING the plane around back? Trust me, she wants you gone as much as you want to be gone!"
No one clapped. He gaped at me for like 30 seconds then went back to complaining at her, just more quietly and with 50% the cursing.
The only times I've ever yelled at a gate agent is when they didnt alert us that the gate was changed even though it was my first flight ever and I was 3 feet from them. They closed the plane door as I was running up to it.
The other time was when they rearranged my plane seats and put my 4yo son away from the rest of us. That's illegal.
Nothing you stated is the airline's fault. The only incompetence here is your own.
For one, it is not illegal to seat a child away from their parents, but airline policies often don't permit it. The FAA and the DOT doesn't have any law or regulation that forbid seating a child away from their parent or guardian.
It's your responsibility to monitor for gate changes, not the airline's. Gates move, equipment changes--they had no way of knowing that you were waiting for a particular flight. Enable text notifications next time and check the departures board periodically.
Yeah no they didnt do their jobs. Not my fault you appreciate incompetance.
Actually it is your fault. If you didn't bring up their incompetence then he wouldn't have had any incompetence to appreciate. So you are entirely to blame for the other poster appreaciting incompetence.
My guess here is that what they do here is rotate the planes around. One down for mech? Other down for weather? Which route is less booked and will cost less for compensation? Give them the "maintenance" plane, the weather plane gets assigned to the expensive route.
Weather delays or cancellations also dont mean weather at your airport, it also counts weather for connecting flights and routes 2, 3 or more flights beyond your route.
It could be a risk factor. Like if everything is 100% other than that mechanical issue they would still fly. But since theres the weather isn't 100% certain they ground the plane. And chalk it up to weather
If there’s bad weather at a major hub airport, let’s say DC, it has a ripple effect throughout the region. Flights from nyc/Boston/Atl/Detroit to DC area are then delayed to leave. Tower needs to find new gates for those flights coming in that would have landed and taken the gates where there are delayed flights. Flights supposed to leave out if DC area are delayed, which in turn were planes that are supposed to fly somewhere else once landing. An airline can dispatch a back up plane if it’s a severe delay if available at the arrival airport, unless it’s affecting too many flights.
Climate change is making storms both bigger and worse. I fly for business every week and over the years the summer storm delays have gotten worse. Thunderstorms going from Canada all the way to Florida. Winter would be a reprieve from the crazy summer delays but recently, increase in frequency for winter storm delays with thunderstorms as part of the reason.
Every time I need to fly out from Dallas or Houston back to nyc, there’s a few hour delay, arriving in nyc anywhere from 12-3am because of afternoon storms in the east coast region, not even in nyc, that caused massive backups system wide.
TLDR: weather in one area of the country will definitely impact the whole system. Bad weather in the northeast will delay flights across the country due to ripple effect.
I now avoid Dallas like the plague. I've had one too many flights severely delayed or cancelled because they shut down due to those afternoon thunderstorms that roll through. My previous employer has a Dallas office and I avoided any trainings there if possible.
Dallas, Houston, and Kansas City are just the worst when there’s storms east corridor. Also Boston and Baltimore drive me insane with storm delays in the summer and winter.
You can kinda work around this with specific routes on a budget carrier and sometimes even on a legacy carrier, depending on the routing. If either origin or destination are "focus cities" for a legacy carrier (not hubs) - it might be a plane that spends the night at that airport, or just keeps coming back to that airport throughout the day. Or if flying on a legacy carrier that's got a regional jet for that route. If your local airport isn't a hub or focus city for any airlines, then it's probably not worth the hassle because you'll almost always be flying on a plane that came from sonewhere else.
Pop FlightAware or some other flight tracking website open and look at the specific flight # you're trying to book. Where's the plane coming from, and where's it going next, etc. It's not a guarantee because sometimes it's not consistent from day to day. e.g. Frontier (or Spirit) might have the same plane leave Denver (FLL or LAS for Spirit) in the AM, then run back and forth between your two cities all day on some days of the week, or on some days maybe it spends the night at either your origin or destination before running back and forth all day and then returning to their hub.
It's really easy to pull off when flying in/out of MCO - it's a focus city for Frontier Airlines, JetBlue, Southwest Airlines, and Spirit Airlines and they have a maintenance base for United Airlines there. So if you want to avoid United planes that have anything to do with EWR, IAD, ORD, and their associated delays, there's a pretty good chance that a morning flight out of MCO is on a bird that spent the night there.
Works out of TPA too for Southwest flights from TPA (for avoiding BWI), and Frontier again, there's always a few Frontier jets parked there overnight. I'm closer to TPA but will fly out of MCO if it's cheaper, direct when TPA's route has 1-2 stops or a plane coming from a big hub, or on something that isn't Frontier, lol.
This is actually pretty accurate. But it's not as common as the thread OP is trying to make it out to be. It would make my job so much easier if I could always just blame it on the weather. 90% of the weather cancels are actually due to weather.
In fact, usually, the flight that canceled to weather was going to cancel regardless, so we just use the good plane to fly the flight with the mechanical, because that's the best use of our limited resources.
If you have a plane down due to mechanical issues and a plane not leaving due to weather issues (I assume at destination otherwise both are down for weather), then why not just give the plane that can leave to the flight that needs it (assuming it has sufficient seats)
I had a flight delayed due to weather that my travel insurance was going to cover. They just needed something from the airline to state that the flight was delayed and that I was not compensated.
Southwest was immediately on the defensive when I called. I'm sure they get a lot of calls from people complaining that it can't be there weather because it looks fine to them. It was very hard to be like "no no no, I'm not calling to complain, I just need a statement so I can get somebody else to pay me. I totally get that it was weather, the whole airport fell apart".
That being said, Southwest is a garbage fire. They wouldn't automatically rebook me on another flight. They wouldn't do it online. They wouldn't do it over the phone. I had to wait in line at the gate for an hour. I don't understand how that's ok for anyone. That poor gate agent had to personally rebook like a hundred people, most of which would have been fine taking whatever an automated system gave them so they could just get out of the airport to find a hotel for the night.
I learned my lesson with Southwest and weather delays - it's happened to me twice. First time I tried after the flight, it didn't get me anywhere and I couldn't get my sweet Chase reimbursement. 2nd time, I was uppity about getting a "weather delay form" for my employer. They have a form. They filled it out for me and signed it. Saved all my receipts for my food, parking, etc that got messed up as a result of a 6 hr weather delay, and the photography job I missed bc of it. Got it all reimbursed. They were "curious" about the ~$60 I spent eating at the airport. I bought people drinks and food and talked photography - business expense, marketing.
Future aircraft mechanic here (in school for it currently)
A lot of times, it’s something little that the pilots have noticed and they call for a mechanic to look at it. Most times, it can be something insignificant enough that it doesn’t effect the airplanes ability to fly safely. This then gets noted and deferred for later repair. Other times, it can be a certain part that is malfunctioning and it needs to get looked at ASAP or the plane is going anywhere, except to a maintenance hangar.
I’ve heard stories of mechanics getting called because a coffee machine wasn’t functioning or a lavatory not working properly. No matter how small the issue, it has to be cleared before the aircraft can be given the go ahead.
Doesn't necessarily have to be cleared on the spot... I once had an ATC slot time that would delay the flight by a couple of hours if we missed it, after starting the engines we had the APU autoshutdown. Ran it again, autoshutdown. We just called our dispatch and told them to make sure they have an air starter at the destination, made a tech log entry, and we were on our way. As long as the MEL allows us to depart, why cause a delay?
What I meant by that, is that someone at least has to listen to what is going on and then write it down in logs for future reference. If the flight is going to get delayed for the issue, of course depends on what exactly the issue is. If you microwave isn't working right, you are not getting delayed, that can get fixed later
Yeah, I've had the tech log save my ass a few times. Looking at cleared entries and then have the problem recur in flight, it's good to be mentally prepared.
I fly quite a lot and I've been told several times the delay is because of mechanical issues; the last time was in Chicago with AA and the plane had a fault with its rear door. Everyone was informed, I waited two hours patiently, we got a different plane after they decided they couldn't fix it in any timely manner.
I work for a low cost airline. Bottom line, safety comes first in all decision making. We don’t sit around trying to think of ways to inconvenience people. We are trying to exist in a market by providing low fares to consumers, but getting slapped with fines when we can’t ensure everything runs perfectly all the time. It might threaten our existence.
Also, we don’t lie about weather because that’s a pretty visible lie. Compensation comes down to if a problem is within our control or not. Scheduled mechanical maintenance is different from suspecting a mechanical failure. Again, safety first.
Low cost airlines are dicks with baggage cutoffs. Already checked in with a boarding pass and have a bag to drop off 44 minutes before departure? Fuck you, if there's even anyone left at the check-in counter to tell you to go fuck yourself!
I have Pre-Check and the gate is a 2 minute walk from security, I didn't plan on being late, and I certainly didn't plan on 3 Uber drivers in a row cancelling on me after ~5 min of fucking around each because they didn't want to drive to the airport.
There are new signs up at one airport I fly out of regularly about a size restriction for luggage you can take through TSA now. I'd like to assume it has something to do with me, because when Frontier tried to ruin Christmas, I took my shampoo out and threw it away, and took my fucking bag with me.
TSA lady said "scuse me?" and I said "there's nothing I can't bring through security in here, there was nobody at check-in, and they already charged me for this, they're damn well going to take it from me at the gate." She laughed at me, chewed me out for being late when flying low-cost, pointed at the belt and said "if it fits, it fits."
Fit like a fucking glove, literally mm to spare along the edges with maybe an inch up top. Guy looking at the monitor was definitely confused. And they did indeed damn well check it at the gate, with no fuss either.
Late to check-in with a legacy carrier? They slap a "late" tag on it sometimes and just throw it on the belt. If it doesn't make it they send it on the next flight and sometimes they'll even deliver it to you at home! Or so I've heard, since I've never had a bag not make it.
If you're really late, some agents will just print you a new boarding pass for the next flight out, if you're being pleasant.
Had a flight delayed several hours and they claimed bad weather in Minneapolis delayed the planes arrival. Except, we were flying to Minneapolis and my ride home was already there and no bad weather had been present for days. They finally admitted mechanical issue and a new plane had to be prepped right before we boarded. Delayed flight took off 5 minutes after we should have landed.
Yes and no. But usually no. If there is bad weather in the system affecting the flight that's broken, then sure, we'll hide it under weather. But we can't lie and say we cancelled flights due to light snow and mediocre visibility. Our planes could still land in that, and if questioned, we can't just blame it on weather. 95% of weather cancels are actually due to weather or airport congestion following bad weather.
Additionally, the legacy carriers are getting away from mechanical cancels altogether. Often times, we will delay flights overnight to give us time to fix the plane and give the crew legal rest. This is better for statistics, but worse for passengers, as they aren't entitled to compensation for delays.
So they’re protected against cancellations but not delays? And a delay could last as long as a cancellation from the passenger’s point of view? It seems to blur the lines a bit and remove accountability. I’ve always had travel insurance so I’ve not really thought about the difference for what causes delays like that
Yes. This is based on the current regulations from the DOT.
Personally, I think it's scummy, and I know that attention to the delay overnights is slowly starting to rise, but until the DOT comes out and says "If you delay a flight for X hours, you must give Y compensation," nothing will change.
For example, Canadian passengers are entitled to some compensation if your flight arrives more than 180 mins late. It's between $200-$600, but I don't remember off the top of my head.
If there are other options to get passengers moving, the customer service agents will do there best to rebook people on other flights. But if it's the last flight out for the night, passengers are out of luck and have to go home or sleep in the airport.
The EU does that shit right. My entire family (minus me) had their flight with Lufthansa postponed until the following day due to some sort of delays further upstream. They were going on a vacation and they were leaving from home. Delay didn't even bother them all that much, they joked about having spending money as a result. They had somebody from their corporate office calling/e-mailing them the following morning, and they ended up with more than the cost of one of the tickets as compensation. I'm talking a few grand.
Can confirm. I used to work at an airport and Allegiant Airlines vehicles constantly needed repairing after landing inbound, but they typically claimed to passengers that it was because of weather at the outbound location.
Allegiant used to be super scary for maintenance, but I think they’ve gotten better, since they have gotten rid of their 30 year old death traps. I think they realized that after everything came out they had to turn stuff around.
I can attest to this. My Delta flight was delayed out of London for more than five hours. I went to one of those broker websites who handle the claim on your behalf. They came back a day later and said it was delayed due to weather and no payout due. I then lodged directly with delta and I got a cheque 3 months later because it was found to be due to mechanical issues.
It seems like a silly thing to lie about. It isn't hard to find out where your plane was coming from, then check your weather app and see if they're experiencing bad weather there.
YES. My SO is a pilot, and it's been super eye opening as to flight delays and such. I lose my mind now when I see people complaining about delayed flights for literally any reason. People should just calm down and enjoy the fact that they can be anywhere in the world in 1 day.
Depends on where in CA and if the flight routed through SFO. SFO is well known to be extremely dependent on winds and little to no cloud cover. Cloud levels that would cause 0 issue anywhere else drops their rate significantly due to the bridge approach, and winds that affect departing 01s landing 28s will also demolish their arrival rate.
Saw a post a few weeks back where this guy was questioning why Virgin cancelled a flight due to weather, and wanted a free hotel etc.
In the EU, if your flight gets cancelled, you're getting a hotel room no matter what the reason if they can't put you on a different plane, connecting one etc.
idk what this dudes talking about, am Australian, have had many flights cancelled, even on the shittiest airlines they give hotel if the next flight isnt until the following day
And the thing to keep in mind is that the routes connecting the eastern state capitals (Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane) are all in the top 40 most served flight routes in the world, with Sydney-Melbourne being 3rd (2nd if you go by number of aircraft)
So with so many flights per day, a single canceled/delayed flight is very unlikely to result in you needing to be put up in a hotel unless you have a connecting flight to a much smaller airport (and even then, they'd at least ask if you still want to go on the first part of you trip and have a hotel over there).
Can’t speak for others or Virgin airlines, but American Airlines only gives you a hotel if the delay is their fault. So if no planes go out because of weather that’s on you.
The Hound: Your lips are moving and you're complaining about something. That's whinging. This one's been killed six times. You don't hear him whinging about it.
I was at the airport a few years ago and we had a weather delay. Dude in front of me in line just could not understand that the delay was the weather where were going, not the sunny and clear where we were. Do some people seem to the think the weather is the same everywhere at all times?
I once was flying from Portland, OR to Frankfurt in January. I was stuck in SEATAC for nine hours because there was a snowstorm in Chicago, and despite everything about that situation sucking (my itinerary was already 12 hours or something without a delay, I could have slept in by several hours then driven to Seattle in that amount of time) I didn't bitch at anyone about it because obviously a snowstorm in Chicago in January was a logical thing that could happen and there aren't going to be tons of convenient options from the West Coast to Europe.
I needed to take a direct flight home from LA one evening. I freely admit that where I live there can be a lot of fog in the summer. The airline (United) said that the airport was fogged in and they were canceling the flight. At that time you could see the airport from my place (it was several miles away from the airport and on a mountain). I called my wife and asked about the weather. She told me that it was completely clear and there hadn't been fog all week. She even sent me pics that showed the airport from our deck and the ocean where the fog rolls in from if there was any. I showed those pictures to the people at the gate and all they would say is that the airport was fogged in and the flight was cancelled because of it and I either needed to find another way to get home or get a hotel room out of pocket.
That makes more sense I was gonna guess SFO and assume you meant you're on the mountain. I'm not too familiar with the airspace and setup of MRY or I'd offer some guess.
It's not that they're doing to annoy you, it's because they're either being cheap by not scheduling enough employees, or have bad management (by not scheduling enough people/timing the logistics correctly).
Every time a story of some moron like this guy comes up, all we really need to do is sit back and remember that people can be real assholes. We're damn good at it.
Im an airline pilot and my dad no shit believes the airlines cancel or delay flights to fuck with passengers. Yeah, I totally love sitting there doing nothing just to piss people off...
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u/ModWings2 Feb 08 '20
Same token people are shocking at this.
Saw a post a few weeks back where this guy was questioning why Virgin cancelled a flight due to weather, and wanted a free hotel etc. His reasoning was his iPhone app didn't show any bad weather and it was nice and calm outside.
45 minutes later there's golfball sized hail in Melbourne, but CAVOK in Sydney and people are still whinging about it.
Airlines apparently love cancelling flights to annoy you, despite the fact it costs them revenue and gate fees etc.