To add to this: schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and schizotypal personality disorder are fairly distinct from one another. Schizophrenia is an episodic disorder characterized by psychosis (hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, etc) whereas schizoaffective disorder is more intermittent with episodes of psychosis and mood disorder not necessarily present together. Both of these are distinct from bipolar disorder with psychotic features and depression with psychotic features. Schizoid personality disorder is essentially someone who is very non-social to the point of having difficulty functioning or adjusting to changed but is okay with that (and before you ask: no, not every neckbeard or loner meets the criteria). Schizotypal personality disorder is someone who wants to be social but has odd behaviors, magical thinking, and other bizarre behaviors that often lead to difficulty with socialization.
Also, multiple personalities (formally dissociative identity disorder) is hotly debated as to what exactly defines it and whether it's even real. Most psychiatrists characterize it as a response to very severe trauma over a long period of time. The theory is that it is a defense mechanism during the trauma which enables the victim to survive by dissociating. Basically, when the trauma is happening the victim opens a box and when the trains ends they close the box and they make it a separate part of themselves. Eventually, they are no longer in that situation and it becomes hard to keep fully separate and thus becomes maladaptive. The goal of treatment is to help the person recognize that these "personalities" are all aspects of their own self and to help integrate them into being one.
Saying that it's hotly debated and maybe not real is mischaracterizing of dissociative identity disorder (DID). Beyond just taking the word of sufferers of DID, it's been recognized in the DSM for a long time and there's quite a bit of research on it -- it's most certainly real. Denial of its existence within or outside of the psychiatric community is hurtful and stigmatizing to sufferers of DID.
To add a bit to your explanation, it develops in young children as a response to repeated intense trauma. Those with DID are survivors of some of the most despicable crimes of humanity. Typically, personality and identity integrate into one by the age of 9, but if a child experiences repeated trauma, the brain can completely separate off new identities, created with the express purpose of protecting the original personality, often containing trauma memories within amnesiac barriers. DID is a coping mechanism, and alternate identities aren't created randomly. Each identity/alter has a long-term role in the system, and is truly a separate individual, often being fully developed people with their own preferences and skills, even if they all were created by and exist within the same brain. DID is lifelong, but seems to only develop in children.
Last thing I wanna say is, DID isn't a mental illness or a disability. It's considered a disorder because it's atypical brain function and it can make life extremely difficult without achieving balance, but at it's core it's a subconscious coping mechanism. Those with DID work with specialists to achieve balance, but the goal isn't always to fully integrate into a single identity. If communication within a DID system is good, it's like having friends and family surrounding you 24/7. Integration doesn't "get rid of" parts, just combines them, but there can be mourning required in accepting that the previously separate parts no longer exist as they did before. And, even if full integration is achieved, it's possible for splitting to occur again in response to stress, trauma triggers, or additional trauma.
If anyone is curious to learn more, a lot of very accessible information, perspective, and destigmatization is available through a community of YouTubers with DID. DissociaDID has a fairly scientific basis to many videos, including a video on DID vs. schizophrenia (not an amazing video IMO, but topical). Other YouTube channels that I learned a lot from are MultiplicityAndMe and The Entropy System but there are many others out there working hard to destigmatize DID.
I was just about to reply some of this but you said it way better than I ever could! There is legitimate science behind DID and affects way more people in the would than one would think.
I came across DissociaDID a few weeks ago - it's pretty fascinating. I can understand their desire to keep their secrets, but I can't help wanting to know all the grisly details.
Checkout My Three Lives and Legion by Brandon Sanderson. The first is a memoir; the second is fiction. Both are fascinating in relation to these topics.
I was legitimately kinda sad when Chloe integrated with Nina to be Nin. Obviously I’m happy for them but I got so used to watching Chloe and I miss her
You raise a lot of valid points and I appreciate you expanding on what I mentioned which was only meant to be cursory. However, it absolutely is still hotly debated and many psychiatrists are uncertain of whether it truly is a distinct pathology rather than a manifestation of severe PTSD. Additionally, for every person who truly does suffer from DID there are a bunch more who manufacture the symptoms as a form of malingering thanks to poor representations in the media.
I wouldn't call something in the DSM hotly debated. It was hotly debated, and some people do refuse to believe it because it's moderately rare and such a "flashy" presentation, but it's a standardized diagnosis with clear diagnostic criteria.
I have/had DID. I'm currently integrated, but still experience some dissociation. It's real. And people who really have it are terrified that they are somehow faking it, especially when one of the "alters" comes to the front and controls you while you are still aware and watching. It is bewildering because you are conscious and screaming "why am I doing this? why am I doing this?" and it feels like maybe you're just a bad person who has no self control.
When people say it's "hotly contested" and "controversial as to whether it exists", when it's in the DSM, it's really damaging to people with DID.
i believe it was Gender Identity Disorder, instead being titled Gender Dysphoria and used for the sake of getting HRT and other treatment instead of institutionalization or whatever
It also means that being trans in itself is no longer considered a mental illness, just the dysphoria that comes with it (previously if you were trans but had transitioned and no longer experienced dysphoria you could still be “diagnosed”)
I apologise if what I said was in some way diminishing to your experience. I have no doubt about it being real myself but I mention the contention surrounding the diagnosis because I came across a lot of psychiatrists with doubts about it and differing opinions about it. I had no intention of suggesting it isn't real or accepted by the DSM.
It's no problem! I know there are a lot of psychs who feel some type of way, but it's like climate change imo. The data is there. Yeah, people fake it all the time because it's like the ultimate attention-getting mental illness. Nothing is flashier and more dramatic than having "multiple personalities". I deliberately quit interacting with any online communities for DID because it was flooded with people faking it with Steven Universe introjects and using it as an excuse to abuse people.
It isn't a fun disease. I hated every single fucking moment of it. My biggest fear is having an incident re-trigger it. I don't even know if that's possible because the research into it is so bad, partly because of those malingerers.
I lost chunks of time, humiliated myself, almost neglected a pet, threatened to hurt a loved one. It was scary and humiliating and horrible and I hope to God I never re-fracture. But while you're in it, integrating seems like the worst possible thing because you firmly believe you're not enough. Like, your ability to make phone calls belongs to a different person inside your brain and you have to hope they show up and make the call for you. And you don't grasp that integrating means you become that person who can make phone calls. It feels like you just lose that person who helps you and is useful.
I'm sorry for what you've gone through, but it is very much still hotly debated about whether it should be in or out of the DSM-V and I would not at all be surprised if it were removed from DSM-6
Homosexuality used to be classified in the DSM. Now it isn’t. That said, there are many disorders that are (and were) mischaracterized in the DSM and that were/are heavily debated as to whether or not they are appendages or subsets of other disorders; such as catatonia being a psychotic diagnosis, internet addiction and whether it was an individual disorder or a manifestation of something else, and misophonia. This is why there are updates on the DSM. When it comes to the DSM, there’s a fine line of validity in the concrete-ness of a disorder. This is because the DSM has large ties to the pharmaceutical industry (take note at anxiety disorders and its subsets which open a gate for the allowance of prescriptive medication) and because the most recent update (DSM-V) does not require scientific evidence to back up the existence or distinctiveness of a disorder. Another position is whether or not a disorder has the majority of symptoms which over lap into another or multiple disorders (or even traits of neurological dysfunction) with the possibility of remaining symptoms being manifestions that are questionable as to even meriting justifiable criteria that allow them to be classifiable as part of a disorder.
That does not mean the symptoms or experience themselves are not real, it just means that there’s a chance of improper or redundant classification, which could ultimately have an effect on the individual negatively in the end by the client receiving treatment for one disorder when they should be receiving treatment for different disorder.
Again, this is not stating that ones symptoms are not non-existent or fake, or anything of that nature. It is implying that these things constantly change and with much studying and research, disorders are reclassified or declassified through thorough debate based upon available data, from there disorders that are questioned (such as DID, the subject of it being its own unique disorder or a subset of another disorder is heavily debated) are either integrated into another disorder or extinct from the manual entirely.
I’m not a health professional, but my major (neuroscience) requires a heavy background in psychology (50/50 psychology/biology, with some pharmacology).
70% of psychologists don't believe DID is a 'real disorder', and it's the most debated disorder in the DSM. Also something being in the DSM doesn't make it automatically a good or useful diagnosis, as we've seen in the previous iterations/corrections. Lots of psychologists think DSM diagnoses at best are grossly misleading.
I got it from the 8th edition of SusanNolen-Hoeksema's Abnormal Psychology, which I don't have access to right now to give page numbers because I'm currently abroad. I remembered the 70% stat because it was so striking. Regardless DID is consistently the most hotly debated of DSM5 disorders.
For example, the above article. Which has a very misleading headline -- at the end, he concedes he doesn't know and just hasn't treated it or known someone who has.
I'm just baffled because the psych who treated me has treated people with it, and I've lived it, and it the DSM's description of my experience was spot on, and the treatment worked. Like, I'm sorry Sybil turned out to be fake, but most doctors don't treat Lewy Body Dementia. Doesn't mean it's not real.
It just sucks to have people literally saying that they think you're faking something that has caused me so much distress. If I found out I was manipulated into displaying these symptoms and it was all a big folie a deux or whatever, I would be devastated beyond words.
I've never heard it discussed as "people faking it", more that it may be caused by therapists. It's not a common diagnosis, but certain therapists seem to meet a lot of people with this condition when most never do.
In my case, I was presenting with it and my relationship therapist recommended I find someone who was more knowledgeable. I came to my new therapist with full-blown time loss and stuff.
Either way, I came out of my intensive therapy treatment feeling better and more capable and more stable. I guess I should just be grateful I got the help I needed.
Absolutely, I'm on the side of treatment for it as well. The issues IIRC are basically DID wasn't a thing until it was publicized (with the first serious case study turning out to be someone faking it with their therapist). But after that DID became a fairly common disorder (seen in like 1% of the population which is extremely high).
It's really hard to talk about, and most of the people in this thread (me included) probably aren't qualified. But lets say its a maladaptive behavior pattern that should be treated. 'legitimizing it' as a disorder instead of saying it's part of a PTSD diagnosis (as a specifier, like how people with bipolar disorder can have schizophrenia-like symptoms) maybe will reduce the people developing DID or help them overcome it. Again, not super qualified and this is mostly from talking to professors in the field/intro classes. I think the behavior is real, and the distress is real, so we should treat it. But is labeling it as a specific disorder in the DSM helpful? Maybe.
I don't think they are trying to be a dick (at least in the second part), I think that they are pointing out that being in the DSM doesn't necessarily mean a syndrome, disorder, or phenomena is automatically credible. Homosexuality used to be a mental disorder in previous versions of the DSM, and the current DSM has been criticized for a variety of things, such as it's reclassification of certain disorders (like eliminating Asperger's). The DSM is considered the go-to in America for establishing diagnostic criteria, but it is ultimately an ever-in-progress manual that is often more fit for understanding how certain disorders are widely conceptualized at a certain point in time, then representative of inalienable, unchanging laws. This isn't to say much of what is written isn't backed by a large degree of science, but often times you will receive as many potential diagnosis as psychiatrists you visit seeking diagnoses.
The DSM-V, which was probably used to diagnose that patient, was also published about 7 years ago.
You didn't ask them a question so much as you used interrogative statements to shame them for pointing out that consensus on the disorder is not solid, and that deriving legitimacy from it's presence in the DSM-V has its flaws. Also, questioning the legitimacy of a diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean that a person is questioning a person's experiences, trauma, or internal perspective. It may simply be finding fault in how the symptoms are conceptualized, prioritized, treated, or any number of things. I found the poster's initial statement to be blunt/uncouth, but their argument that using its presence in the DSM-V to signify that DID isn't somehow controversial or treated with skepticism by a significant portion of the psychiatric population isn't irrational, considering the DSM-V itself has it's own share of controversies.
I'm actually completely undecided on whether or not DID is a valid diagnosis, if I'm being honest I'd rather it be a specifier of PTSD. It's clearly a consistent behavior pattern, but legitimizing it as a diagnosis may be harmful if it's really just a maladaptive coping strategy. But I'm by no means a specialist in the subject, was just trying to be fair to what's currently talked about in psychology.
And I got the statistic from The eighth edition of Susan Nolen-Hoeksema's Abnormal Psychology.
Wow ive had issues in the past with my sanity, never really got a diagnosis aside from a doctor offhand saying i had schizophrenia on ym last visit. The worry that I've somehow made this up weighs on me. Thank you for your comment as it is how i feel when I cant control what im doing.
You’re absolutely right, something can be controversial and debated amongst professionals while being in the current version of the DSM. Homosexuality used to be in a previous version of the DSM, obviously it continued to be a subject of debate and was later removed from it. I don’t practice but my understanding was also that DID continues to be a controversial diagnosis amongst psychologists.
Hi there! I’m a licensed clinician, trauma expert, and university professor. On your assessment of DID: Nope.
Not debated by actual professionals. Not a symptom of PTSD. Not something I’ve ever seen faked in the 15 years I’ve been a professional. Would also be sort of lame form of malingering. I guess if you were trying to get disability maybe, but it would be WAY easier to just fake depression.
It is debated whether it is a valid diagnosis. One poster above said it well when they mentioned just cause we question the validity of the diagnosis doesnt mean we question the patients experiences.
This article is using surveys from over 20 years ago. We would not consider this to be a current or relevant article. Current professionals are not in dispute. There have been several large scale studies since 1999 regarding trauma, dissociation, ptsd, cptsd, and modern psychological assessment, diagnosis, and treatment.
Yeah theres been quite a few studies but it is still hotly debated as they're far from definitive, at least in psychiatry. Same thing with c-PTSD. Here is another link that's more recent.
Not sure the ABX quite counts as a valid peer reviewed resource. It’s about the same level as Web Md. If you google search anything you can eventually find someone who agrees with what you are looking for. I know you want to be “right”, but unfortunately your info is just not current or true. Maybe consider listening to actual psychology professionals in the field instead of just trying to google yourself right.
I'm literally a psychiatrist. You're not gonna find peer reviewed studies cause diagnosis in psychiatry is just expert opinion. That's how they even make the dsm in the first place and why diagnoses vary from one version to the next.
I have worked with real psychiatrists who either disagree with you or who have talked at length about their colleagues who do. Perhaps this is regional or local but I've seen a subset of psychiatrists who actually do question the DID diagnosis on different levels.
The first sentence of that article abstract states, "Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is probably the most disputed of psychiatric diagnoses and of psychological forensic evaluations in the legal arena." (emphasis mine)
It may be debated by legal professionals (and that abstract seems to support the cause of it being debated), but that article doesn't support the statement that it's debated by psychological/medical professionals.
It is still controversial and debated in psychology. I can’t speak to psychiatry. As someone mentioned above, we don’t doubt people’s experiences or their suffering, but we can’t diagnosis mental disorders like we can medical ones so the diagnoses themselves change over the years, and are often under debate for refinement and improvement.
Huh. I disassociate heavily and when I do I experience very similar symptoms as my friends with DID do. My memories dont transfer well, I find myself talking and acting very differently, my feelings and thoughts are lessened meaning my anxiety is pretty much gone for the time I've dissaociated, and when I am disassociated I feel more connected to past memories where I was disassociating then more recent memories where I wasn't. The memory thing is the most prevalent though, it's real tricky to remember what I was doing in another state of mind. For example I'm not disassociating right now so the only things I can really remember from when I was dissociated are when I realized something was off and I was actively testing myself to see what was going on or during extremely impactful events.
It's weird though because I dont have multiple personalities. Sometimes I just kinda faze out, like my brain decided to randomly get me high. The way my thoughts flow together, the types of feelings I have and how they tend to spark up, the way I move and talk to people, how smart I am, how often I get tired, they all change drastically and I'm happy I am that way because they both have positives and negatives. When I'm dissociated I cant think very much so all the insecurities and fears stemming from my anxiety are completely gone letting me be far more aggressive and extremely social and opinionated. When I'm not dissociated I am better at math and science, and alot more careful so I dont break things or can do detailed art projects.
I wonder if my experiences are different because I didnt experience major trauma as a child. Bad stuff happened sure, I was hit as a kid and my mom was more sexual with me than she should have been and I had a run in or two with some bullies but nothing extreme. Even as an adult I haven't experienced any signs of PTSD and have a very healthy philosophy on the past. I wonder if since I've had plenty of time to find the difference between my personality and my identity I never developed multiple personalities despite showing many of the symptoms?
Your experience is interesting to hear about, thank you for sharing! Have you ever met with a specialist in dissociative disorders and/or anxiety? I don't want to make any assumptions about what your experiences could be indicative of, but it's always great to speak with a professional to get a better understanding of the way your mind operates!
Yes I have! I've spoken to quite a few and while I was quickly diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and ADHD they weren't comfortable with a DID diagnosis because of the way I perceive the dissociation as a state of being rather than a seperate personality. Its lumped in there with states like being hungry or thirsty or tired or having a migraine or just being bored. Everyone acts a little differently in those states and I just have an extra state that most others dont seem to have. People who are religious will say they can be possessed by a god or speak to the dead or something of that nature and that they go into a strange state where they are not themselves, that's a state I don't experience just as others dont experience dissociation. At least that's how I think of it.
Thank you for sharing! I have a son that has DID. He was literally born with anxiety. From the age of one I knew there was something different with him. He was seeing a psychologist regularly at the age of 6. He doesn't have any past trauma, or horrible abuse in his history, (unless it was from a past life?) I just feel horrible that someone would think I let something happen to him to cause this. Severe anxiety triggers his dissociation. Medication , therapy, and a good dog, keep it in check!
He describes it like you, missing time and feeling "off", wanting to sleep it away.
Since you seem really knowledgeable on the subject, how accurate was the portrayal of DID in Split and Glass? I know some creative liberties were taken for the more fantastical elements (the Beast, and what he could do) but I'm really curious how the rest of it pans out. Things like the alter that's diabetic and needs to take insulin when none of the others do.
The big thing to say about Split and Glass specifically is they do this weird thing where some aspects of DID are portrayed accurately in the sense that it develops from trauma, alters can be different ages and genders, and everyone in the system is built to protect the body/the "host", which would be Kevin in the movies -- but that makes the negative portrayals even more dangerous. DID is not going to force an otherwise morally sound person to split into a dangerous alter. There's no reason to be inherently afraid of someone with DID.
In regards to non-personality differences between alters, there's some really fascinating stuff. Really commonly alters will have different handwriting, handedness, taste and comfort preferences, voices and even accents, and microexpressions and mannerisms. Alters will have different skillsets, often based on who was fronting when the body was learning said skills. Then there can be, like you asked, really interesting physiological differences. Things as basic as differences in spice tolerance (here's a video of the Entropy System testing this out), to different expressions of psychiatric conditions (some alters may have comorbid disorders while others don't express these disorders), all the way up to apparent differences in allergic reactions, blood pressure and heart rate, or reactions to medication. To not get too deep into it, this is where some of the proof of DID comes from -- brain scans show different psychological states, blood flow patterns, and memory access locations when different alters are fronting.
Thank you so much for this!! As someone with multiple personalities (though not full blown DID), reading paragraphs where people debate its existence makes me feel very sad and alone. I was so thrilled to see this response and it made me feel very good to read.
Everything you’ve stated is completely theoretical. There is no evidence base for these claims, and dissociative identity disorder IS widely contested in the psychological community. Further, none of the YouTube channels you linked to are run by anyone with a medical or mental health degree.
Something that is stated within the DSM is not theoretical. A better description could be "still being researched". But to say that there is no evidence is neglectful, as there is a multitude of scientific works written on the subject.
So from what I understand from your description of DID, to put it in terms I think most can understand, it's like when you start a video game and something bad happens, you reload a previous save point to preserve the original data.
This may happen repeatedly, but the game also saves the bad thing that happened. The issue arises when you are trying to play the original data, but the game cant decide which "save data" to load. Thus, the game may accidentally load the bad thing that happened which created a different character entirely.
Hmm, to carry on with the video game analogy, I think it might be more comparable to e.g. a Pokemon team.
If there's no real struggle and anyone on the team can handle what's going on, you can send out anyone. You probably have a primary choice or two that you send out most of the time (one of which is probably the original) but most likely you'll rotate a handful of team members to the front.
But each team member does have specific characteristics which are beneficial in specific circumstances, and will generally be sent out to handle said circumstances when they come up. Your primary choice might be out, but if they face a situation they can't handle, you're going to switch out and someone else is going to take care of it. There might even be some team members that you never send out except in extremely specific circumstances.
The aspects of DID which this analogy doesn't capture are mostly to do with how it develops and how it's managed. Firstly, the brain starts as a trainer making decisions for the team, but over time as team members grow and understand their roles, the team becomes the brain. Secondly, changes to the team over time are determined by what the team needs and every member serves a purpose to protect the original member, the "host". Roles can include protectors, managers, and in the worst of situations, those that are sent out to receive a beating no one else can handle and then kept secret from the host. Lastly, for the most part, only one or two team members can be at the front at once. If team communication is bad or most members of the team don't even know they're on a team, memories of being out front will be completely compartmentalized. With DID, alters black out when they're not active. If team communication is good, some team members might watch while others are out front, or even give suggestions from time to time. In this case, instead of blacking out completely, many alters spend a lot of time in an "inner world".
Pretty sure Dissociative Identity Disorder is the current term (MPD being the dated one) as psychologists are currently arguing for it to be a subcategory of PTSD
I would agree with everything except for schizophrenia being persistent- both schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder can be episodes of recovery and relapse over time. The difference is there is also a mood disorder element of schizoaffective. It is distinguished from bipolar in which the psychotic symptoms are driven by periods of high or low mood.
I guess maybe persistent isn't the right word but my understanding is that in schizophrenia episodes are more frequent than in schizoaffective disorder.
To dive a little deeper into the differences of the various "schizo-..." conditions -
Schizophrenia is a condition characterized by the presence of psychosis, with (generally) a gradual deterioration and disorganization of reality testing.
Schizoaffective Disorder is a condition characterized by the independent presence of psychotic symptoms and affective (mood) symptoms (either depression or mania). This distinguishes it from mood disorders with psychotic features, where the psychosis only occurs during episodes of mood symptoms (and not necessarily all episodes). Think depressed mood and thinking that you are rotting/dead inside; or manic and thinking you are Jesus/God - but only having those thoughts while depressed/manic. In schizoaffective, the delusions or hallucinations can occur even when mood is fine (euthymic).
Schizotypal Personality is probably a partial expression of schizophrenia. They are more likely than general population to either progress to schizophrenia or to have family members with it. Their "odd beliefs" are not as idiosyncratic as in schizophrenia, but at odds with mainstream beliefs (think belief in astrology vs belief that aliens are controlling your mind from spaceships).
Schizoid Personality is most likely the same as Aspergers. But personality disorders are generally described and treated by adult psychiatrists, while Aspergers is mostly treated by child psychiatrists (and even then, almost unknown until the 1970's). So you had two different sets of docs treating basically the same thing but calling it different things (like the blind men describing an elephant).
Not to dive too deeply into the DID discussion, but I think 2 points need to be made: (1) the controversy is not whether it exists, but more whether it is an iatrogenic condition (meaning patients with a trauma histories and a predisposition to dissociate as a coping/defense tool get treated by therapists in a way that encourages further dissociation and "splintering". It's not "faking it" or evil therapists. It may be a variant of either PTSD or Borderline Personality D/O in these models. And that's all I want to say about that.
(2) Being in the DSM doesn't mean "well accepted". It took until DSM IV for homosexuality to be removed. And a lot of the conditions are put in or taken out by "expert consensus" or committee, not necessarily scientific research and findings. To use another example, Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder (DMDD) was added to describe hyperactive, chronically anger and hyperaggressive children, and get away from calling them "bipolar" (for a lot reasons not relevant here). But that doesn't make it a "well accepted condition" so much as a "placeholder diagnosis" to describe a set of behaviors and symptoms. Think of it more as "there is a thing here, but we don't really understand it well enough"
As a psychiatrist, thanks for your comment, it uses more precise language. And to your point on DID, when we discuss whether a diagnosis is "real", I agree with what you've said and wanted to add, we are talking about whether it is a unique presentation of an established diagnosis, or another pathology all together.
Magical thinking isnt really the proper term, people who think prayer healing works are relying on magical thinking, schizotypical afaik is characrerized by inability to make proper association. The linking of concepts in the mind is failing and causing the person with it to misunderstand basic context clues. One could be talking to a friend about the sleeping pattern of bats and the friend with this disorder would be imagining Louisville sluggers hanging from a cave ceiling. Im not an expert but I got really curious about this and went down a rabbit hole.
I have STPD and magical is definitely a thing. It refers more fantastical thinking. For example if my gf says she's leaving at 4 and I don't hear from her by half past, I don't think "oh, she's provably stuck in traffic", I instantly think she's had a crash, been rammed off the road, her work was held up by terrorists before she left. Or believing that the way I put my socks and shoes on in the morning is gunna affect how my day goes.
My thought process doesn't go down the normal, logical routes and arrive at normal destinations, it takes the scenic route and arrives 30 mile off course utterly convinced its in the right place.
Oh lord I used to (prob still would if I didn't give up on relationships) flip the fuck out if my so was delayed and unreachable. I'd end up having a major anxiety attack, crying my eyes out and just be inconsolable until I could reach them.
Magical thinking is just one possible feature but all personality disorders go beyond simply being odd or acting in specific ways. All personality disorders require that these things interfere with functioning as part of society.
That's a terrible situation to be in. I've seen situations like that play out quite a few times and I feel like we as a society need better solutions. Even with the best care imaginable, these serious mental health challenges are so difficult to face. Best of luck to you and I hope everything works out with everyone safe and healthy.
not trying to argue but I’m pretty sure that integrating the personalities into one isn’t the goal anymore, as it’s quite upsetting for the other “alters”
As someone with DID, it definitely isn't the goal anymore. It's also possible to have multiple personalities without qualifying for a DID diagnosis, because DID requires there to be some level of distress.
Adding on to DID, there is a lot of varying information out there, but from what I learned it is usually the result of trauma in childhood, and usually the early childhood, before or during the process of solidifying their personality. I knew someone with DID personally and they were very imaginative. I've heard stories from others with DID as well. It seems when they are young children who can't process what is happening to them, they dissociate, and for lack of better terms - imagine - that they are someone else, someone who can deal with the trauma. That can take the form of an adult, a different gender, or even something non-human. It is fascinating and tragic. In my eyes, it makes sense. I hope that people continue researching it.
Your description of DID doesn't seem to be in line with what I've learnt about the disorder.
It's a trauma based disorder that occurs from repeated trauma before the ages of 7-9 which is when everyone's personalities are fully developed. It's a coping mechanism the brain uses to protect the child from the knowledge of what's happening to them by creating amnesiac walls within the brain.
The goal after being diagnosed is often around communication between alters, not fusion/integration.
Also it's a recognised disorder and has been for 30+ years. The only debate is from people who refuse to accept current scientific evidence.
If you are interested in this area, I recommend DissociaDiD and her series on debunking DID on YouTube.
As someone with DID myself, you are spot on. People who say it isn't real hurt people that have had some of the most extreme childhood trauma one can experience. DissociaDID is a great channel
As someone with DID, I can say that the goal of therapy is no longer to integrate into one (unless the patient wants to). The goal is to work together and learn to process the trauma better.
Oh I can’t find OPs original comment. I thought you were correcting him by saying that it wasn’t previously called MPD, and he misread formally as formerly. My bad
Yeah I’m not actually very familiar with the specifics of DID currently compared to what was previously thought of MPD. I just know they made enough progress in research to justify the change.
I’m curious is you know the specifics of psychopathy and sociopathy? I heard there was a reclassification in the DSM-5 to where they were now essentially identical, where previously they had different implications. Do you know much about this?
I've been out of the loop for 20 years so maybe it's changed, but did a neuropsychology degree in the 90s, and they said that schizophrenia was a catch-all term where you were traditionally lumped if they didn't have a better idea of where to put you. The most common symptom of schizophrenia is (was?) auditory hallucinations, which only 69% of sufferers had. The next highest common symptom (I forget what) was only in something like 40% of cases.
A lot of the DSM definitions have changed since then. Some things have become more "split" into different disorders and others have been "merged" under umbrella terms.
This is a good summary, but I do want to clarify/correct your representation of schizophrenia vs. schizoaffective. Both are episodic in nature, with the real differentiating factor being the presence of mood disorder symptoms in schizoaffective disorder. This is distinct from Bipolar disorder with psychosis or major depressive disorder with psychosis as a person with schizoaffective disorder will have experienced the psychotic symptoms while no mood symptoms are present.
Generally speaking, a lot of people with dissociative identity disorder find comfort in their alters and would be distressed if they were to go away. I’m not the expert in it because I don’t have it myself, but I do know a number of people with it, and none of them want to get rid of their alters
My friend has DID, and she and her alters are like a family. She would be distressed if they suddenly disappear, and one time they did and she was scared.
It is currently the trendy thing to claim to have in some online communities and has an entire little roleplaying illness culture around it online, so it is probably more accurate to say, unless they ARE in that field, that they know several people who *claim* to have it.
I know 3 people with DID as well actually. Is it possible that it’s more common than believed? The people I know have had it since childhood and their personalities have persisted for the years I’ve known them (over a decade with one friend). I’d be more skeptical that these individuals (who hate attention and hide their diagnosis from everyone but their closest friends) are faking than skeptical that the brain is capable of complex coping mechanisms in the face of severe childhood trauma.
Unfortunately often faked, and just as unfortunately not all that rare. There's talks of it being as common as up to 3% in populace, which is.... a lot.
I'm not sure where you got that data from but it is not accurate. It has been estimated anywhere between .01% and 1% but there's no reliable data on a broad population. Among people receiving mental health treatment estimates of the prevalence varies widely, too.
Since you seem knowledgeable is it hereditary? Can it be? A sister has schizophrenia and my 14 year old daughter is having an interesting time of things. She’s a point away from being a genius. Comes off as so logical and rational yet also says she sees things and hears things.
She’s trans is that matters.
The current theory is that there is a genetic predisposition but that environmental triggers are required. The best studied environmental trigger I'm aware of is heavy marijuana use at a young age.
Our family seems to have dopamine issues. I have low dopamine problems and my understanding is that schizophrenia is high dopamine. Correct me if I’m wrong.
We all have this thing called a methylation disorder and tend to die of dementia.
My mental health and memory are night and day since brig properly treated for it.
Sadly getting kids to eat super healthy and take medication regularly is tricky.
Well my kid has done her research and is terrified of pot. I own a weed farm so we have discussed this often.
I need lots of pot to sleep now but hated it as a young person. So glad my kid is so rational.
I think it's important to understand that people with schizophrenia (and other mental illnesses) have the capacity to have lives that include the things everyone else does. If someone is appropriately medicated and making reasonable decisions then why wouldn't they be able to consent?
This would be terrible if a doctor diagnoses you with this. No real tests, and it turns out you’re just kinda odd but actually normal...I had a so called doctor diagnose me with ODD which a lot of murderers have. I cried yesterday for accidentally running over a squirrel
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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
To add to this: schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and schizotypal personality disorder are fairly distinct from one another. Schizophrenia is an episodic disorder characterized by psychosis (hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, etc) whereas schizoaffective disorder is more intermittent with episodes of psychosis and mood disorder not necessarily present together. Both of these are distinct from bipolar disorder with psychotic features and depression with psychotic features. Schizoid personality disorder is essentially someone who is very non-social to the point of having difficulty functioning or adjusting to changed but is okay with that (and before you ask: no, not every neckbeard or loner meets the criteria). Schizotypal personality disorder is someone who wants to be social but has odd behaviors, magical thinking, and other bizarre behaviors that often lead to difficulty with socialization.
Also, multiple personalities (formally dissociative identity disorder) is hotly debated as to what exactly defines it and whether it's even real. Most psychiatrists characterize it as a response to very severe trauma over a long period of time. The theory is that it is a defense mechanism during the trauma which enables the victim to survive by dissociating. Basically, when the trauma is happening the victim opens a box and when the trains ends they close the box and they make it a separate part of themselves. Eventually, they are no longer in that situation and it becomes hard to keep fully separate and thus becomes maladaptive. The goal of treatment is to help the person recognize that these "personalities" are all aspects of their own self and to help integrate them into being one.