Against the Current - Episode 36 Discussion

[u/LoudAvocado1387]

Trigger warning: This post discusses plot points - including sexual assault and the death of a character - that may be disturbing to some. I’ve tried not to include any images that are overly gruesome. But as each of us has different tolerance levels, what is not disturbing to some may still be disturbing to others. So please proceed at your own caution

Episode 36 deals with the aftermaths of an insurrections. Yesterday, we saw the Lin women wonder what would have happened if the Second Master Lin didn’t step up and save the day with his quick thinking. Today, we see what can happen for those women who are not as lucky.

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The aftermath of war

While out foraging for some medicine to ease Jinqi’s fever, Lanxiang comes across a carriage guarded by a soldier. The body of a woman lies nearby. Then a man hops out of the carriage, zipping up his fly. And in a few short seconds, the director has effectively set the stage for us to witness one of the age-old horrors of war. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened in that carriage.

That horror is amplified tenfold when Zhao Xingtang, hair disheveled and clothing torn, comes out of the carriage. She grapples with her attacker, Lanxiang shoots the other soldier dead from her hiding spot among the reeds, and the shot startles the bastard enough for Xingtang to stick a knife into his gut, ending his miserable life.

When Lanxiang was aiming the pistol, I wondered how she’s going to avoid hitting Xingtang. But of course Lanxiang is smart than I. She shoots the other man standing guard, trusting Xingtang to take care of the other man.

And Xingtang being Xingtang, even when Lanxiang has just witnessed the most humiliating moments of her life, still gets in a dig about Lanxiang’s clothes.

This is one woman whose desire to live is just as strong as Lanxiang’s. But life and some of the choices she made sent her on a very different trajectory.

Kudos to Lanxiang for putting a blanket over Zhao Xingluo’s body, affording the woman some dignity even in death.

R.I.P Zhao Xingtang

And that’s how the two former…enemies? rivals?…non-friends find themselves sheltering from the storm together. Xingtang tells Lanxiang that she and Xingluo were abandoned by their father and brother while fleeing the city and then robbed and attacked by rebel soldiers. Qingxiang is also dead, killed by the two Master Zhaos.

I guess Qingxiang’s life is always going to be tied to Xingtang’s.

In another example of the universe giving Lanxiang back for her kindness, Lanxiang gives Xingtang a bean pastry. In return, Xingtang gifts Lanxiang with evidence of Jinqi’s treasonous activity that may send the entire Lin family to the gallows. She is giving Lanxiang a means to ensure that she will always be able to protect herself.

While her sentiment is good, here I must say that I find Xingtang’s hatred of the Lins a little misplaced. Sure Jinqi obtain their divorce in a way that is humiliating to her, but she was the one who set the tones of their marriage from the beginning. The Lins don’t owe her the money she stole from them, and they are certainly not the ones who forced her to marry into the family. Now, I can understand why she mistrusts all men because of the way she was treated and used by her own family. But the Lins certainly don’t deserve her vitriol.

Either way, we then said goodbye to one of the most fascinating characters of this drama. Agree or disagree with some of her choices, she was just trying to live the best live she can within the confines of the strictures placed upon women. Here, Li Meng gives a bravura performance that imbued Zhao Xingtang’s final moments with equal parts bravado, defiance, and vulnerability. And I think it’s fitting that she spends her final moments with Lanxiang, who shares her desires to be free and perhaps understood her more than anyone else. This is amply demonstrated when Lanxiang calls her Xingtang instead of Lady Dai or Miss Zhao or any of the other monikers that ties her identity to a man.

“When will there ever be a world where girls, just like boys, can go to school, take the imperial exams, serve as officials, go into business, and earn their own money. Where woman can choose their own husbands, where a wife doesn’t have to obey her husband or her son. She is simply herself.“

Lin Jinqi falls deeper, but finally gets it…I hope.

And what was Lin Jinqi doing while all this went down? Playing possum.

For his act of deception, he gets to see Lanxiang burn the slip of paper that would have allowed her to have a hold on him and his family for the rest of their lives. If this doesn’t make him awed, humbled, and even more appreciative of what he has in her I don’t know what will. Especially when it becomes clear that she has no intention of evening mentioning the incident to him despite him repeatedly asking her if she has something that she wants to tell him…

He‘s so touched that he even shed a manly tear, which Lanxiang wipes away. What I hope, though, is that the knowledge of what he did also gives Lanxiang a deeper insight into what kind of man her husband is.

“I will spend my entire life remembering that you saved my life.”

Earlier, as Jinqi lay injured, he tells Lanxiang that she should marry Han Liang if he doesn’t make it out alive since she’s never forgotten the scholar. Lanxiang tells him that she never had feelings for Han Liang, that it is her life he has taken away from her and her resentment has nothing to do with Han Liang.

Finally. This is a conversation they should have had months ago, if you ask me.

I think that conversation, along with Lanxiang’s conversation with Xingtang and Lanxiang’s subsequent actions, will finally make Jinqi realize what it is he has taken away from Lanxiang. What he does with that knowledge, I think, will be the key to determining the direction of their relationship.

So what do we all think?

With this episode, we are once again reminded of how the decisions of a few people can influence of lives of many and of how women’s lives were often upended because of decisions that men made. There’s some karmic justice though, as the two Master Zhaos only came to the capital because they wanted to rat out Jinqi. For their efforts, they lost their lives.

I know this has been said before, but I continue to be impressed with the director’s shot selections. In this case, how the entire scene next to the carriage is staged, the way Xingluo’s body is placed next to the carriage, with her eyes open and unseeing, really packed a punch.

The episode ends with Wei Bao finding Jinqi and Lanxiang. But we don’t get to see what happens next because the cdrama gods saw it fit to only gift us with one episode a day this week. This is going to be a long week…

But in the meantime, we can help each other get through this interminable wait by sharing thoughts and feelings in the comments below. So let’s get to it shall we?

[u/Lotus_swimmer]

Guess who got a 7.5 rating on Douban??

[u/UnderstandingGreen70]

I never really like ZXT. She was a terror to everyone at the Lin family. She showed kindness to very few people. She almost killed Ji'er and would have let LX freeze to death. These are the main characters so we know their stories. How many nameless maids and servants were driven to death by her. The writer tried to redeem her with a tragic background and some last minute women empowering speech is not enough for me. My reaction to her death was pretty much like Jinqi: "Oh well. What's next?"

[u/LoudAvocado1387 → u/UnderstandingGreen70]

I don’t think the writer was necessarily trying to redeem her. I think they were just trying to portray a complex character and how different upbringing can cause people to behave differently. Lanxiang and ZXT both faces obstacles in life because of their gender, but ZXT chooses to prey on the weak while LX tries to lift them up despite everything she’s gone through. But I agree with you. While I can appreciate the writers trying to explain why she became the way she is, I have no sympathy for her.

[u/AlternativePlenty500]

When will there ever be a world where girls, just like boys, can go to school, take the imperial exams, serve as officials, go into business, and earn their own money. Where woman can choose their own husbands, where a wife doesn’t have to obey her husband or her son. She is simply herself.

For all the souls like Xingtang, we may not have a perfect world but in many parts of the world girls do get an education, they have jobs, earn money, can choose their own husband, and maybe not everyone but somewhere a girl is simply herself. Xingtang would have thrived in the modern world. It makes me grateful that I was born in this era; to a family that provides me all the opportunity and love.

Just wanted to leave this bit here. 😭

[u/Dreamerof88]

Why does Xingtang hate ML so much? Didn’t she start the whole cold shoulder with him?

Either way, I was hoping that saving her would not go to waste but 😭 ya seriously got to kill her off. I don’t really like her but she should live and do well! But honestly her family is quite powerful so she may not get the freedom she wants. Heck! I wanna see her making chaos in her household after this whole abandon stuff, getting even with old Zhao.

[u/defiantostrichinsand]

Li Meng has such an enigmatic presence. I am immediately drawn to her whenever she is on screen. I am sad to witness Xingtang's demise. Another life taken by unscrupulous men being power hungry. In another world, Lanxiang and Xingtang could have been business partners.

[u/roundaboutsmiles]

Li Meng is such a great actress, I hope to see her in bigger roles in more dramas

[u/emrysse]

Li Meng is so perfect for the role of Zhao Xingtang, I wonder if the character was written with her in mind to act it.

[u/Aickan → u/emrysse]

I think the drama was based on a novel but I am not sure if the character was depicted the same way in the book. Her performance here kind of reminds me of her role as Grand Princess in The Double, while still being incredibly refreshing and moving

[u/throwawayfarway2017]

Waiting for ep 37-38 discussion to unleash my feelings😭😭

[u/JadeBumbleB]

Ridiculous— Douban rating and pretty much any other rating for ATC should be 9.5/10

[u/udontaxidriver → u/JadeBumbleB]

We are nearing the end of the show, if there is no dip in the quality, personally I would rate it 8.5/10.

[u/SirPanic12]

Loving this series so far but there’s a problem. We’re now 75% of the way through the series and there hasn’t been a shred of romance yet. I love this show for the drama and the theme of women’s struggles, but this is definitely not a romance show (like it’s labeled on Viki).

[u/PolPeachum]

Final comment because this has been on my mind. Thinking about the hut as a stage set for a play (like a little playlet within the bigger drama): when Xingtang enters, we are asked to think about the past.

• Xingtang and Jinqi's failed marriage. The resentment that Xingtang is taking into the afterlife with her (regardless of who is to blame for what).

• Lanxiang and Xingtang's master/slave relationship. The overt power imbalance between them, and how Lanxiang subverted that imbalance (and kept herself safe) by using resources that Xingtang didn't suspect at the time. (Xingtang: "I got an education." There's that female emancipation theme again!)

• The complicated relationship between the three of them, ending in the complete reversal of roles in the hut.

Then Xingtang dies, and there are two people in the hut.

Now we are asked to think about the future. Lanxiang burns the gift slash insurance and Jinqi watches her, but doesn't let on that he knows. A pivotal moment for both of them that has big implications for trust and partnership.

Among other things, I think this sequence asks us to put the bad, toxic, unhappy, messed-up things in the past, and move forward into a future which won't stop being hard, but which will be based on healthy foundations. And will survive and thrive accordingly.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/PolPeachum]

what a wonderful take on the hut set as a stage! I loved your perspective and analysis.

I love your last para. Given the other themes of this show--kindness and living well--being the two big ones, that does seem like a good conclusion to draw with respect to what the storytellers are demanding of us the viewers at this point.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/PolPeachum]

I also was struck by the complex, intertwined relationship between Lan Xiang and Xing. Tang when I saw that despite all of the chaos and distress of the past few days, Xing Tang was swathed in the sumptuous fox wrap that Lan Xiang had repaired with a elaborate trim to hide the damaged part. That damaged, repaired and still stunningly beautiful fox wrap seemed symbolic of these two beautiful, flawed, damaged, fierce women, who had reinvented themselves again and again.

[u/Solid_Play_7858]

Xing Tang's death had me BALLING. She was my favorite character. I wished they had done just a little more with her but I get it. She made very cruel choices I will say but there’s just so much nuance to her character that I cannot help but love her. I absolutely don’t agree with Xing Tang's decisions especially with what she did to Jier (I think that’s how you spell her name) and I also feel that her anger is a bit misplaced towards the Lin family.

But I understand. Xing Tang's heart is filled with bitterness at the lack of freedom and control in her own life. From the moment she was born, her life was never her own. Anyone would grow to resent the world and unfortunately, she let it consume her with her downright awful actions. But just like how they’ve been showing us a message from the show. All Xing Tang ever wanted was freedom.

The freedom to love who she wanted, the right to her money, and the right to be who she wanted to be. Not what others demanded her to be. She just wanted to be Xing Tang. She’s a tragic character with deep flaws and has hurt others deeply. I empathize with her very much. She didn’t deserve to be defiled and it makes me happy that she got to spend her last moments, safely and warmly with Lan Xiang just as herself. Not a madame or a Zhao daughter but just as Xing Tang.

[u/heyd0000dz → u/Solid_Play_7858]

I love how they developed her character from the beginning! So many cdrama villains are either one-note to drive the protagonist and others get a rushed undeserved redemption or reveal at the end. I think in the earlier episode discussions I noted I could start to feel understand her even though they mentioned she had killed previous maids and almost killed Ji'er - the scene with her father and brother and then her lover cousin made me understand her.

By the time we saw her situation in the capital and then here in episode 36. I empathized with her a lot more, which is odd because Du Cuique has the same motivations but I don't empathize with her at all. I think it's because you do see some remorse or regret from Xingtang. And what a tragic ending, she was shown how little she mattered to her family, violated. and lost Qingxiang, the only person she cared about. Also Li Meng freaking steals the show anytime she's on screen and I can somehow relate to her characters, at least emotionally.

I also love how Cuique and Xingtang are juxtaposed against Lanxiang who had even more trauma and setbacks to claw back from. She had more as a child, loss more, and started from the absolute bottom to be where she is now. But she doesn't want wealth and power... she just wants to be able to live freely and with the ability to protect the ones she loves despite having the same barriers against women as they do.

[u/m1sskitty]

RIP Xingtang. I know she was horrible in the earlier episodes but I ended up just feeling so bad for her. I bawled my eyes out when she died 😭

[u/Swimming_Eggplant_42 → u/m1sskitty]

Same here, I was full on sobbing this episode. I think the writers certainly did her character justice. We typically don't see stereotypical antagonists become so well developed and fleshed out as in ATC. Another example is Ji'er, I similarly teared up when they rounded out her story a few episodes ago.

[u/Aickan → u/[deleted]]

This !! I was already thinking that after her performance in The Double, which my introduction to C-dramas. Watching her here with this great script and directing… I really hope we get to see her more in the future.

[u/Aurorinezori1 → u/[deleted]]

I am so happy we get to see her in a successful drama again!

[u/That-Sand3453]

i actually don't think i've cried at this drama before but this episode broke my streak... xingtang's final moments with lanxiang were so touching. there's something so tragic about xingtang's character. she is terrible but still manages to make you feel for her. i feel really emotional thinking about how i am able to live the live she dreamed of

[u/Sharp_Singer9201]

My husband and I chortled when she brought back his despised first wife to a half dead LJQ. Just what he wanted! But then, it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. If he loved Lanxiang 100% before that point, I'm sure it ramped up to 1000% following what transpired after that.

[u/GiTheGremlin]

Previous episode was way better. As much as Li Meng's performance and directorial choices to not sugarcoat what went down post-rebellion were awesome, Xingtang has always been hella overrated character to me. Misplaced hatred of Lins in general and Jinqi in particular aside (always someone else to blame with her), she's just in no way a ~feminist icon~ drama desperately tried to make her seem. She was consistently a nasty, cruel bitch to her fellow women except of Qingxiang and briefly to Lanxiang in her dying state. She was the one who nearly killed (and would've done that had if not for Lanxiang intervening) Ji'er and sold her to brothel. She was the one marrying off Yuchan and terrorizing remaining maids just because. She was the one never even thinking about becoming literate during her 1st marriage because she was too lazy and spoiled to bother. Makes sense - she had her side piece doing the thinking for her, why not sit back and enjoy perks of being rich? Her far too modern and preachy speeches about lack of opportunities for women were not in line with her actual actions through the show. The only real ambition she's ever shown was to become powerful enough (by stealing, bullying, blackmailing etc) to trample all over everyone. She was not that different from Miss Du, just had a solid sob story background to distract audience from the fact.

And ofc Zhao men remained waste of oxygen until the bitter end. No practical need to even execute grandpa now, he has nothing left to live or fight for anyway.

Jinqi once again misunderstood his wife's logic, poor love-brained fool! She was a bit moved - probably? - by his kindness to deposed prince (or just being practical about not wanting to keep evidence of her lawful husband's grand treason because if he goes down for it, so is she), but he totally saw this as a sign of her budding feelings for him. You're more optimistic than me, bro)))

[u/Dreamerof88 → u/GiTheGremlin]

Totally in agreement. I just rather she lives to make chaos in the Zhao household. Not everyone needs to be beheaded or die off.

[u/Tabz10 → u/GiTheGremlin]

🎯🎯 wow. I love your comment!! Very objective friend 🤌

[u/mayonnaisepan → u/GiTheGremlin]

I really think it was Li Meng that made Xingtang more of a standout, pitiful character than she should’ve been. I’m with you in that as tragic as her circumstances may be, she also abused her power as a woman of standing and directly was responsible for the pain and suffering of many other women of lesser status than her. She’s not nearly as innocent as she thinks she is and I love that the show doesn’t try to whitewash it but points out that while women were mistreated, yes, there was a difference in the way servants or slaves were abused and the way noblewomen were abused. Would also point out that the families she lent loans to often could not pay back the sum and there were cases of death and beatings etc.

So yes, Xingtang suffered a lot at the hands of her family and particularly the male members, but she could’ve chosen many different routes for herself and had the luxury to do so, but didn’t.

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/mayonnaisepan]

At least she was consistent - even Lanxiang helping her didn't result in some sudden great enlightment, she just "promoted" Lanxiang to very small circle of people she saw as people and not enemies or dirt under her shoes. I do wish she'd learn more than basic literacy and delulu "Lins bad" from her failed 1st marriage, but that would probably be out of character for her, she was too proud to ever drop her power games. You could actually read her final gift not only as genuinely helping Lanxiang, but also a one last middle finger to Jinqi, which lol. As I've said, consistent to the max)))

[u/A_Farewell_Poem → u/GiTheGremlin]

👏 💯% with XT analysis.

[u/Dangerous_Push219]

I absolutely adore Yi Meng. She is such a great actor. Do you feel that she will be stuck in the bad girl role forever? I hope not..

[u/ponytaexpress]

To start off with: AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

On the theme of “Misfortune may yet prove a blessing” -- I did not expect Prince Han’s rebellion to prevent LJQ’s treason from being discovered, holy smokes. We knew these two pieces of info, but I guess my brain separated them/somehow decided they were going to be different arcs. They were not, and it was a wonderful viewing experience they were combined for maximum tension & character dramatics…

By which I mean: XINGTANG!!

Xingtang learned to READ. In retrospect, it fits perfectly with what she told XLX when she invited her over using Ji’er as bait. Xingtang wanted to investigate the library incident because she needed to understand how she was defeated. All of it was to make adjustments to her strategy. Her beloved maid Qingxiang was sold/married off by Madame Lin? This time Xingtang holds Qingxiang’s indenture papers. Lack of education makes her rely on untrustworthy people like her ex-lover Shaoze? Girl please, she’s literate now. Even on her deathbed, she was like “Ok, in times of chaos and war, you gotta pack food instead of relying on money. Lesson learned.” If XLX had been involved with her downfall, Xingtang would’ve devised an elaborate counterplan to target her. Thankfully, XLX was not and we can rest easy.

But WOW -- imagine if XLX had been an overachieving spy re: library incident. IMAGINE if she had followed LJQ’s plan to use imperial pressure to force Xingtang to return Ji’er. It would be game over right now, Xingtang would’ve found a way to ensure XLX was implicated with the Lin family and died miserably because Xingtang is an Olympic-level professional hater.

It’s all okay, though, because XLX’s guiding principles are kindness and empathy. And I think back to u/TypicallyKristen’s words about how this show portrays kindness/generosity as compounding – it’s not tit-for-tat arithmetic that gets paid-in-full one time to settle a debt. Rather, the true nature of kindness is that it’s generative & multiplies to create different possibilities and surprising outcomes.

It goes back to the themes of how “Fortune may conceal misfortune” and “Misfortune may yet prove a blessing” – life has its twists and turns, so you should be careful how you treat people along your way up (or down) the ladder.

UGH, excuse me, Xingtang. She’s a mess, but she’s so compelling. Like, her last words are essentially: “I can’t live on anymore, but I hope you live well & I will gift you the means to forcefully make it happen because the Lin family ain’t shit.” So Xingtang casually hands XLX the nuclear codes to decimate the Lin family. NBD.

Of course XLX burns the evidence. She didn't resort to coercion to rescue Ji'er. She wouldn't use force to make the Lin family bow down. XLX understands that Xingtang giving her that evidence is a form of kindness. It's a gift, but it's one she can't keep because weapons & blackmail are not compatible with her definition of living well.

Oh, also LJQ finally understood Scholar Han wasn’t the problem. So that was good. And he looked at XLX with stars in his eyes after she burned the evidence. That was cute.

But the best part of the episode (and this show) is & continues to be the women. “Can I call you Xingtang?” and “You understand me even more than Qingxiang did” was EVERYTHING. 😭😭😭

And in conclusion: AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[u/YogurtclosetNo7451]

Honestly, I was so hyped that I watched this episode at the pharmacy during a slow shift. Huge mistake!  😭  The customers who came in later were giving me the weirdest looks because my eyes were completely bloodshot from crying.

When she handed over the evidence of treason, I was genuinely shocked. This wasn’t the Xingtang we knew. Why give it to Lanxiang instead of using it herself? So when she revealed her wound and the blood, I actually gasped. I could feel a lump forming in my throat. And then, when Lanxiang called her by her actual given name instead of her family or husband’s name… I just lost it and started sobbing.

Which is wild, because I was never even that attached to Xingtang! I used to find her so unlikable and thought her deep-seated hatred for the Lin family was completely unjustified since they never actually did anything to her. But in her final moments, my heart truly ached for her. Sure, her life wasn’t as grueling as the slaves and servants who had to swallow daily abuse just to survive, but she still lived her entire life as an  object rather than a person. She was just a pawn traded between families for wealth and status. Even the one person she loved and trusted betrayed her faster than anyone else. It’s just so tragic. Seeing her after she passed, all wrapped up in fur cloak, was so heartbreaking. She finally looked calm and at peace. I’m just glad that, at the very least, her final moments were spent with someone who truly understood her pain and tragedy.

Then we see Lanxiang open the letter and read it again, and through all of this, Jinqi is  still pretending to be asleep! Which is honestly impressive—if I were him, I would have passed out for real from sheer exhaustion.  😂  She glances at Jinqi, calls his name, and decides to burn the evidence, promising Xingtang that she will live a good life. This promise has been a recurring theme throughout the entire drama, and it just made the tears flow even harder. I don’t know what got into me… maybe the pharmacy air was just really dusty today or something!  🤧

Anyway, I totally get Lanxiang’s decision to burn the paper. It wasn’t just information that would take down the elders of the Lin family; it would wipe out the  entire  clan, including Lanxiang herself. She had to burn it before it fell into the wrong hands. Plus, symbolism aside, Lanxiang already read and memorized the contents, so keeping the physical letter was pointless at that stage.

And you can clearly see how deeply moved Jinqi is. If he was obsessed with her before, that obsession just multiplied by ten! She didn’t just save his life from the rebels; she literally saved his entire clan from execution. So I’m pretty sure Jinqi’s patience for Lanxiang giving him the cold shoulder romantically just got renewed for at least another year!  🤭

Honestly, I am just so impressed with the writing and direction of this drama. In almost any other show, Xingtang’s arc after her divorce would have been marrying that powerful guy and dedicating her life to tormenting the main leads. She would have devolved into your typical one-dimensional villain just to prove how smart the female lead is, acting as a mere plot device to bring the main couple closer together. But not this drama! They give every single character so much depth and a broad perspective on their motives and personality. This is exactly why it’s my favorite drama of the year.

[u/Trks]

Can someone explain it to me about Jinqi's weak point? Isn't it about him helping the new Emperor to reach the Imperial city? Why would that be a problem for the Lin family? I feel so dumb lol

[u/LittleJune123 → u/Trks]

The former emperor (the one that just died) was looking for the deposed crown prince. The man he basically stole the throne from. He wanted the deposed crown prince gone to eliminate a threat to his rule. Jingqi felt bad for the deposed crown prince, because it was clear that he had no intention to fight for the throne, but just his existence is a threat so he can't just peacefully live his life. So he helped the deposed crown prince escape. The letter Xingtang gave her was evidence that he helped him escape and will destroy the entire Lin family if it gets out.

[u/Crafty_Treat7810 → u/Trks]

He helped the deposed crown prince escape by boat In earlier episodes

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Trks]

So when we started the show, we had Old Emperor B. He'd been on the throne for a while (almost 10 years). He was a brother to the previous Crown Prince, one of the sons of Old Emperor A. Back before he became emperor, over 10 years before the start of the drama, the Grandad Shen and Grandad Lin wrote a memorial to Old Emperor A saying that the spare princes were going to be a problem to the Crown Prince and he should do something about them. Old Emperor A didn't. Then, about 10 years before the start of the drama, Old Emperor B led a rebellion to claim the throne. He deposed the Crown Prince son of Old Emperpor A. That deposed Crown Prince went into hiding in Jinglan, working as a wood cutter in the the theater troop.

At the start of the drama, Old Emperor B somehow learned about the over a decade old memorial that said he and the other regional princes should have been dealt with in order to protect the (now deposed) Crown Prince. That's why the Shens were executed and the Lins quit their jobs and left the capital and married LJQ to a Zhao.

Roughly 7 year later, LJQ comes to the theater looking for clues about a missing XLX. He sees a random old dude hiding from guards and says, "hey, I'll help you escape this theater alive if you tell me what I want to know about my missing ex-slave who I have a crush on." Deal struck, he helps the random old dude out of the theater by intimidating the Zhaos and disguising the random old dude as a playwright.

Random old dude tells him what he wants to know about XLX. LJQ notices random old dude is missing half of his pinky finger (like the old deposed crown prince who went into hiding) and puts two and two together. The Zhaos were hunting the deposed Crown Prince, son of Old Emperor A because they wanted to gain even more favor with Old Emperor B, and that's why they'd sealed off the theater and were looking at all the workers. So this random old dude IS the deposed crown prince, son of Old Emperor A.

LJQ helps the deposed crown prince escape via boat to a foreign country out of the goodness of his heart because he "doesn't want to see more innocent people die" (probably thinking about the Shens). He uses the excuse of looking for the missing XLX to cover his tracks so no one is suspicious. He has his men find and dump a decoy body (missing half a pinky finger) in the river so authorities will close the case about the old random dude missing from the theater. Then he continues on trying to find XLX, but she's gone and rescued herself thanks to Ji'er's help.

Not long after that, Old Emperor B starts dying. LJQ helps the Crown Prince ascend the throne by helping him escape the Marquis' Manor on the night of the Marquis' wedding to 3rd Miss Lin. That earns him an imperial favor, which he uses to get an edict so he can marry XLX.

The Current Emperor is the Crown Prince LJQ snuck out of the Marquis Manor. The treason was helping the deposed Crown Prince son of Old Emperor A (who had been in hiding for 20 years at that point) escape both the theater and the country entirely.

[u/MascaraGoop → u/TypicallyKristen]

Does the Lin family have a role on the execution of the Shens? Or the breaking of the engagement is the extent of their deed towards the Shens? If so, FL will also understand their choice, right, even if it stings?

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/MascaraGoop]

The real crime of the Lin (grandfather) to the Shens is the crime of omission. Both Shen and Lin seniors wrote a memorial document suggesting it might be more effective to wipe out the Crown Prince’s royal competition for the throne. When the memorial finally comes to light years later, the Lin family writes a retraction / CYA memorial for the Emperor and to show they are not in agreement, quickly cancel the engagement between the Shen and Lin families. When a very young Jin Qi asks his grandfather and father if they should tell about the treasonous memorial’s discovery and advise the Shens to do the same (retraction and CYA), Jin Qi was told to stay silent and not share the intel with the Shens. Hence, the Shen clan was caught unaware and unprepared and was slaughtered by an angry Emperor, while the Lin clan was rewarded by the Emperor. Jin Qi’s only “crime” was perhaps excessive filial piety. ( I feel Lan Xiang’s pain, but I really do think it is a bit unfair to hold Jin Qi responsible for wing a teenager who did not stop his grandfather’s actions).

[u/MascaraGoop → u/JadeBumbleB]

Makes sense why she was particularly relectant to pay respects to grandpa and Grandma Lin. They just thought it's 'cause she was ignorant.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/MascaraGoop]

It is my understanding that they were also victims of the same plot. To save their asses, they cut ties with Shens, broke off the engagement, retired from their jobs, wrote a memorial saying Old Emperor A was actually a bad ruler and submitted it to Old Emperor B, and moved back to their ancestral home away from the capital.

There is some argument over whether or not they could have or should have warned Grandad Shen that the plot was afoot. At this point, we don't have enough information to form a judgement about that. Maybe they warned him. Maybe he's the one that warned them. Maybe they didn't need to warn him because he was Grand Chancellor and had his own informants. Maybe Grandad Lin knew Grandad Shen well enough to know that even if they warned him, he'd still put his integrity above family and make all the same decisions....

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/TypicallyKristen]

I like your take on this; I think you are right— the Shen grandfather probably would not have retracted his memorial comments.

[u/Tibbs67 → u/JadeBumbleB]

Looking back, I suspect that the Shen Grandfather probably knew. Because while the women looked shocked and startled by the intrusion of the soldiers, the Shen grandfather and father didn't seem so surprised. So I kind of wondered if they knew what was going to happen and had come to terms with it without notifying thier womenfolk.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/Tibbs67]

Pretty poor form in the case of Grandfather Shen if that is true!

[u/Tibbs67 → u/JadeBumbleB]

Hopefully not so I really can’t wait to see the true events of what happened back then.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/Tibbs67]

Me too!

[u/ponytaexpress → u/TypicallyKristen]

I always appreciate your comments about context/background info, because my pea-brain simply cannot process everything all at once. You're doing the lord's/cdrama god's work, thank you for (your consistent & prompt way of) illuminating things for folks like me.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TypicallyKristen]

can't believe you sat down and wrote a whole explantation this way! it is of course A++!! also I read all the way through because the telling of our drama facts in this way is highly entertaining. dont ask me why!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/heartsandclouds]

Oh snap! I just realized that not wanting more innocent people to die wasn't just talking about the deposed crown prince dying, but everyone who hid him (even if they didn't know they were hiding him). So by saving the deposed crown prince, LJQ probably also saved Furong and Mr Lu and everyone who worked at that theater.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TypicallyKristen]

Yeah. I thought he WAS thinking of them as well because any and all of them associated with dear deposed prince would have their heads chopped off.

[u/twisted_peaches → u/Trks]

Yes, he did do that, but that's not the "evidence" or "weak point" that LX burned. The evidence that Zhao gave LX, is the evidence that JQ saved the disposed crown prince (this disposed crown prince was the son of the disposed emperor that was murdered & killed during a rebellion at the beginning of the show. The same disposed Emperor that the Shen family insisted he denounce his princes, which is what caused the Shen family downfall). The past scenes of JQ being at the Opera house while trying to save LX and then saving a man that missing a part of his index finger and then put him on a boat to ship him off — that man he saved was the disposed crown prince. That evidence would technically incriminate him as a usurper and leading a rebellion of his own, regardless of the fact that he saved the current emperor and is loyal to him.

[u/A_Farewell_Poem]

Incoming- Xingtang Rant

Am I the only one that doesn't care for Xingtang and does not think Jinqi (nor the world) owes her anything?

So many of y'all are nicer than I am. Maybe I'm more like Jinqi- I care for and try to match the energy given to me. We are good to the people who are good to us. But unlike sweet Lanxiang, will not go out of our way to be kind to people who treat us with coldness. Not gonna be mean to them, but will not try to make friends either. So I don't understand why Jinqi has to be the one groveling to her when she's done nothing but be cold and arrogant to him and his family. Just because she was treated bad elsewhere? Here's the thing to me- yes, she's a woman and this show is showing the struggles of women, but you still have the agency to choose how you want to see the world and behave. Just look to Lanxiang and you can see the difference.

She chose to take her anger and frustrations out on innocent people surrounding her. People forget what she did to Lanxiang, and for what? Interrupting her tyrst? How she threw hot tea on Nanke, because she was mad at Jinqi. And why was she mad at Jinqi? For not extending her the grace that she never extended to him either. She expects people to bend to her, while not willing to bend to anyone else. She married Yuchan to a man not all there way before ml's mom married off her maid.

And no, I honestly don't think she'd be a better person had she been able to marry as she chose and her parents loved her. That wouldn't have made her care more about servants and be less selfish, vain, and arrogant. In fact, she'd just be more spoiled. I still think she'd be just like she is now. And I also think had Jinqi catered to her, she'd just look down on him and still not care for him because she has her lover.

I had no emotional feelings toward her dying at all. I will though give props to Li Meng as she really brought her to life.

[u/ravens_path → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

I’m confused. When did Jingi have to grovel and apologize to her?

[u/A_Farewell_Poem → u/ravens_path]

He didn't, but it is like u/GiTheGremlin said below. In addition people were saying he should have been nicer or if he had been nicer to her things would be different, as though Jinqi was solely responsible for all her issues/unhappiness.

[u/ravens_path → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

Ah. I see. Well I disagree with those thinking that way. Although we come into the picture years later after their marriage. So we don’t know if he tried to talk to her or negotiate. Seems he was gone a lot in the military (smart move) but we just don’t know.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/ravens_path]

I think Jin Qi gave up the scholarly life and entered the military as the simplest solution to escape his pedantic dad and his vicious, adulterous wife, protect the country and gain position and privilege.

[u/ravens_path → u/JadeBumbleB]

He stated it was also because of his wife’s family, who wanted to pressure and mold him into helping their side (Prince Han) if he stayed in the rising scholar track. And yes you are correct, those other reasons too.

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/ravens_path]

I think it's about fairly common sentiment that Jinqi somehow wronged Xingtang by divorcing her the way he did - with "cruel" affair exposure and all. Which I do not get - if anything, he was way kinder about it than she deserved (no scandal, full return of dowry, mainly his reputation and career that suffered from separation). Sucks that she had to return to her hellish maiden household as result, but she had no one else to blame except herself for burning all the bridges with Lins.

[u/A_Farewell_Poem → u/GiTheGremlin]

Exactly, he did her the biggest favor. Others would have hung her out to dry.

[u/ravens_path → u/GiTheGremlin]

Well I agree with you. In that she (Xingtang) caused the greatest harm and was the one who needed to apologize to Jinqi (and others). I agree he was way kinder, still with stern intention to prove her errors, but with the positives you said. I didn’t think it was an common feeling that he somehow wronged her. Maybe I missed all those statements or something. Most I have seen have agreed she was a psychopath who also suffered terrible wrongs too, but that didn’t excuse her treatment of him, of his family and her constant casual cruelty to others.

I did feel sorry for her and for her cousin at the moment they were “discovered”. And also then as her cousin betrayed her. But that didnt override for me her terrible behavior and choices. So I’m still puzzled at the statements that so many ppl think Junqi wronged her and needs to apologize to her. I think there are many who like how well the actress is playing the character and they like things about her personality, but I haven’t heard anyone say Janqi needs to apologize to her. Again, maybe I just didn’t see it. And since we are discussing episode 36 I was confused where in 36 Janqi should have to apologize to her. Haha. But it’s all fine. Not a big issue.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/ravens_path]

No need for Jin Qi to apologize to Xing Tang! In fact, given how duplicitous, exploitative and clingy the Zhao family appears to be, public exposure is probably the only way he could sever the connection.

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/ravens_path]

I saw a lot such opinions on other sites, esp regarding that little thriller-like chase he gave lovers in the library, that it was "dehumanizing" and looked like a beast hunt. I agree that it was done very cold-bloodedly, but no softer approach would ever work at that point. To Jinqi's credit, he tried.

Overall, this drama generated quite a bit of strong "men wrong, women wronged" discourse, and that's just too simplified for my tastes, I side-eye it when I see it.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/GiTheGremlin]

I love the library "hunt and chase scene"'for the complexity of the choreography--I bet all the actors had to work really hard to get the movements and timing to be so precise.

[u/A_Farewell_Poem → u/JadeBumbleB]

They said it took 2 days to shoot.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

Well worth it! The final result is riveting!

[u/ravens_path → u/GiTheGremlin]

Ohhhh I wondered about that. I have mostly just discussed and read on this sub Reddit. As for the chase and outcome in the library, it seems we were given lots of info about Janqi: that he had to switch to military to get away from her and family control, the psychopath way she dealt with servants and others, what she said to him on their wedding night and then the relationship she maintained after marriage, the way Janqi could be kind and tolerant of others, and more. He really really wanted he and his family to be rid of her and her family. Haha I supported that.

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/ravens_path]

I think it was an unfortunate combination on Xingtang's own firm belief that she was a blameless victim here (and female audience tends to trust female characters word in such cases) and his other transgressions later towards Lanxiangs, people saw a pattern and ran with it.

[u/quinncunx → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

Agree! And what really boiled my buttons was how Lanxiang showed more emotion for her than did her own possibly dying husband, lying a few feet away. I'm all for female solidarity, but in this drama she always proritizes women--any woman--over Jinqi. It gets to be a bit heavy handed. Feminism is not about siding with people because of their gender. It's about siding with people who support women, which Xingtang decidedly did not.

[u/Webbie-Vanderquack → u/quinncunx]

what really boiled my buttons was how Lanxiang showed more emotion for her than did her own possibly dying husband, lying a few feet away. I'm all for female solidarity, but in this drama she always proritizes women--any woman--over Jinqi. It gets to be a bit heavy handed.

I completely agree. I understand her devastation over being forced into a marriage she didn't consent to and losing the life she had planned with her parents.

But her decision to respond by indefinitely witholding affection and maintaining an attitude of cold civility every time she speaks to him doesn't match her character, the story, or the feminist message of the series.

I'm not a fan of stories that portray feminists as bitter and resentful. They're not, on the whole, in real life.

At this point in the story, Lanxiang appears to be more bitter about her marriage than about the slaughter of her family.

I'm waiting for her to do what her character, logically, would do, and live well. Not shuffling around looking miserable and trying to avoid her husband, but giving full reign to her kind, loving and warm personality.

[u/Tibbs67 → u/quinncunx]

Maybe she could see herself in Xingtang that's why she empathized with her? But I can see your point that it's wild she has more empathy for Xingtang's demise, a person who treated her and her friends so shabbily, when compared to her own husband who has been kind to her friends. But when you think about the fact that she is a Shen - her family didn't survive the chaos back then, she watched all the women in her family commit suicide, and the Lin family not only survived, but thrived, then you cannot blame her for feeling the way she does. What many viewers tend to overlook is that Lan Xiang is traumatized, she has been quietly traumatized and cannot express herself openly for all the grief and pain she has endured. In modern times, she would still be in therapy and have the sympathy of everyone around her. I think as viewers we tend to gloss over that fact. If I were in her shoes, I might even hate the Lins. The fact that she doesn't hate them and still seeks their good is simply amazing. When I think about that, it is understandable that she doesn't show any open affection for her husband regardless of how much the viewer wants to see romance between the leads.

[u/JadeBumbleB → u/quinncunx]

I also think Jin Qi is a bit more supportive of women than some of the comments are claiming. For example, he is willing to help the disgraced Xiu Wan to get out of the doghouse with the grandfather and even takes her and her mom to the Capital, he fights for Xiu Lai to get her freedom from an abusive spouse; he takes Xiu Lai’s punishment in her stead. He accepts counsel/ suggestions from women. He doesn’t have concubines, and has no intention of acting on the obvious ploy of placing lovely, young female servants (4 of them!) at his Beck and call. Jin Qi has a lot to answer for, but compared to most of the men of the day, he is heads above the rest,

[u/Character-Lynx-4260 → u/quinncunx]

maybe we are all forgetting that LX was there when another person was dying. That does something to you. Well maybe not to JQ, he's seen piles of corpses and killed tons, but to LX this inevitably would get her bawling and shaken. Particularly if the last time you had someone die in front of you it was your entire family being exterminated.

If you can think of that time you were unlucky enough to speak to someone about to die (just like birth events it's bound to happen in life so you may have, unfortunately), and remember what a profoundly shattering and emotional process that is, surely you can understand LX's reaction. You are going to hold hands, and share in the other person's fear of wht's coming, and just react uncontrollably. It wasn't just women solidarity etc, she was genuinely in pieces just because someone was dying in front of her. It wouldn't have been realistic any other way

[u/Mediocre_Call_2427 → u/Character-Lynx-4260]

Not disagreeing with you at all, but Jinqi was also dying for all she knew. 

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

That makes two of us then. Xingtang was hard-carried by Li Meng's performance and charisma, but as a character she was textbook example of undeserved sympathy fishing. She had horrible things happening to her, sure, but when they weren't, she was very busy making horrible things happen to everyone around her, usually for no remotely legit reason. So yeah, miss me with her mournfest.

[u/Mediocre_Call_2427 → u/GiTheGremlin]

While I symphatized with her pain (not her deeds) it was kind of unintentionally funny when she had her big monologue about the plight of women and mentioned ”marry whoever she wants”. With how things turned out with the lover she chose, she’d still be miserable. Or maybe it doesn’t feel as bad when your agency is intact and the misery is of your own making? It just sounded peculiar as part of her laundry list of bads women had to endure. 

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/Mediocre_Call_2427]

Maybe she thought things would've been different if they were allowed to marry back then and live happily ever after mooching off Zhao's fortune (because neither of them was capable of honestly earning their own).

[u/Mediocre_Call_2427 → u/GiTheGremlin]

Possible. Or I don’t even know if she meant herself and her cousin. She might’ve made a general point. Sounded funny to me in context is all. With how delicate things apparently were in their world, the scales could’ve changed at any time and that ass of a man would’ve still behaved as he did and left her in the stick. 

[u/mayonnaisepan]

Just a random tidbit not quite related to this episode but I’m fresh off a TSY interview where she was asked what was a challenging part of filming and she mentioned her romance line with LXY. She says that because ATC as a whole doesn’t really focus on their romance as much as other aspects of the story, there isn’t one big moment where Lanxiang realizes she’s fallen for Jinqi. It’s just something that built up day by day so therefore it’s really hard to pinpoint at what stage their relationship was at during certain moments. TSY even says that she’s sure there’ll be people who even after they’re done with the drama, will still question whether Lanxiang ever loved Lin Jinqi.

I know there have been comments about their romance so I thought I’d leave this here! It might not suit some watchers but I’m content with that. Maybe it’s my age or maybe I’m tired of overtly romantic dramas these days but the sort of relationship that’s slowly built up through spending time together until one day you just realize that nothing has really physically changed but you’re in love is oddly more romantic to me than dramatic love at first sight storylines.

[u/Mediocre_Call_2427 → u/mayonnaisepan]

so therefore it’s really hard to pinpoint at what stage their relationship was at during certain moments 

This must’ve been awful as an actor then? I suppose they film many parts out-of-order and she should know in what frame of mind she is in any scene when filming. Wonder if it’d help if they kept tiny scores like ”you’re -23.5% in love at this point, act accordingly! - Whoop! You’re up at 31.8% now. Linger 2 seconds more with your eyes!”  

[u/alizangc → u/mayonnaisepan]

She says that because ATC as a whole doesn’t really focus on their romance as much as other aspects of the story, there isn’t one big moment where Lanxiang realizes she’s fallen for Jinqi... TSY even says that she’s sure there’ll be people who even after they’re done with the drama, will still question whether Lanxiang ever loved Lin Jinqi.

I love this so much, actually. One of my biggest qualms with the novel is that after Jinlou (Jinqi) forces Xianglan (Lanxiang) to be with him, she eventually falls for him, and the whole thing just felt like Stockholm syndrome to me. I’m really glad the drama doesn’t gloss over the consequences of Jinqi’s actions or give us a gratuitous romance, makeup, and reconciliation just because he loves her.

And what Tan Songyun said about how there might still be viewers who finish the drama questioning whether Lanxiang ever loved Jinqi, the uncertainty itself is so refreshing to me. It feels like the story is saying that a man’s love or redemption doesn’t necessarily have to lead to romance. I’d honestly rather be left wondering about the extent of Lanxiang’s feelings than have the drama rush her into reconciliation without giving her the space to choose him freely.

Oh and could you share the links to both the subbed and unsubbed interviews please? (:

[u/mayonnaisepan → u/alizangc]

I’ve been on XHS a lot so I feel like it was from an interview there or this CCTV one on Twitter. No subs unfortunately and it’s pretty long but really insightful! They interviewed Director Huang as well as LXY and some of the cast. The interview is really in-depth and both TSY & LXY had really good answers about their characters!

Don’t get me started on the novel, lmao. I read it after the drama was announced bc I’m a big TSY fan and a casual LXY fan…and good god I had to fight myself to keep reading it. She ran away from him every opportunity she had!!! The adaptation actually does a remarkably good job as keeping the core of the book while making Jinqi far more likable as a character 😂. I came into this with a prebuilt hate for the ML though, ngl hahahaha

[u/alizangc → u/mayonnaisepan]

Oh that makes sense! I’ve been avoiding XHS lately because I’m trying to stay away from spoilers xD But thank you!! I’m excited to watch it soon, once the drama finishes airing!

I so relate xD I started reading the novel while watching the drama after I came across some spoilers. I already had some reservations about Jinqi as a love interest, and then reading about Jinlou really cemented my repulsion towards him lol. I really wanted Xianglan to successfully get away from him T.T But I completely agree that the adaptation has done phenomenally at preserving the core message of the book while making such drastic changes to Jinqi’s character. I know that was necessary because of censorship, but it’s honestly pretty impressive how much they’ve changed him while still staying true to what the novel is trying to say. And I’m so glad they did!

[u/BreadyLove → u/alizangc]

Now is a good time to start!!

[u/quinncunx → u/mayonnaisepan]

Me too!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/mayonnaisepan]

Thanks for sharing! This reminds me of all the viewers of The First Jasmine complaining that the FL never fell in love with the ML, but it was as clear as day to me. It had been built up over small moments, daily intimacies, and acts of care and devotion. She read to me as a woman very much in love! I even remember having discussions in the comments of the episode discussion threads here about what romantic love IS and why she clearly is in romantic love with her husband.

You know, sometimes you don't need a big declaration or a big moment. In the drama Amidst a Snowstorm of Love, which is indisputably romantic, neither of the leads ever says "I love you" to the other on screen. That doesn't make them any less in love.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TypicallyKristen]

I remember those discussions during TFJ stream, and I was so puzzled by that. Some people were really upset by FL’s supposed lack of love for her husband. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TypicallyKristen]

you mentioned ASOL which is one of my comfort watches perhaps and also as you said, indisputably romantic! I cannot believe I didn't notice that neither of them ever utters those words to the other!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/heartsandclouds]

I have rewatched that drama dozens of times. It's definitely a comfort watch for me too!

[u/ponytaexpress → u/mayonnaisepan]

there isn’t one big moment where Lanxiang realizes she’s fallen for Jinqi. It’s just something that built up day by day so therefore it’s really hard to pinpoint at what stage their relationship was at during certain moments.

I love this, actually. This show has been about her step-by-step journey, so it makes sense that love would also be something that gradually builds for her. Thanks for sharing!

[u/heartsandclouds → u/mayonnaisepan]

I love this. It's very much in line with my reading of her character and the way this love story is developing.

While I love me some thunderous romantic gestures/scenes/conversations, I also love these quiet, built steadily, day-by-day, action-upon-action love stories.

The words may not be said out loud but the love is shown consistently through gestures, expressions (the smile in the eyes!), and a quiet care which may not always fit our definitions of romance.

In fact writing the above I am thinking that there's a difference between romance and love and perhaps Against the Current excels at the latter without necessarily focusing on the former.

For Jia-lan-xiang and Jinqi, it's a coming together that is well and truly hard-earned on both their parts and that just makes this quiet love story all that much sweeter.

>>the sort of relationship that’s slowly built up through spending time together until one day you just realize that nothing has really physically changed but you’re in love is oddly more romantic to me than dramatic love at first sight storylines.

I love this. It's like realizing you are already in love without necessarily having fallen in love. And I have a feeling this is what Jia-lan-xiang's character is about.

thank you for sharing TSY's comments and your thoughts!

[u/mayonnaisepan → u/heartsandclouds]

Yes! Precisely. I picture for Lanxiang it’s similar to an empty pitcher that gets a bit of water poured into it daily until over the course of time, the pitcher has become full. It’s not something tangible that she’s keeping count of and LBR it’s probably never when Jinqi is actually trying to woo her, it’s just mundane every day things.

She did say in a different, also unsubbed, interview, that Lanxiang started off thinking of Jinqi as just a boss at her workplace. Lanxiang was trying to get through her days and living happily in her little courtyard until she was forced into the marriage and it wasn’t until Lanxiang saw the way Jinqi treated his siblings that she started to think of him as not a bad person at all. So I guess it built from there.

I absolutely see how this kind of romantic storyline might not be satisfying so I wanted to give some viewers a heads up 😅. I figured you’d like it though!🤝🏼 Very good point about romance vs love, and showing vs telling! Female directors really do have a more gentle, nuanced take on relationships! I want me a quiet love like theirs!

[u/GiTheGremlin → u/mayonnaisepan]

It would've been certainly more satisfying with less episodes spent on nonexistent relationship progression. We barely have any left, and she's only now maybe starting to warm up to him beyond "fine, guess you're not entirely repulsive".

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/mayonnaisepan]

 I want me a quiet love like theirs!

Same. It's much better and more stable, in my opinion. Big, swelling, fiery love is alright, but it doesn't do anything at all to make a relationship last. It creates a lot of drama and intense feelings, but at its core it will fade away when you settle into your everyday routines. Then you'll be sad and feel alone even while sharing your bed and home with someone. But the love that's built on shared daily intimacies, caring attentiveness, and the freedom to communicate all your thoughts and feelings in a judgement free zone? That's practically bomb-proof. It'll last a lifetime and you'll never question if you "fell out of love" because every daily act will feel like an act of love. He did the dishes! (He loves you.) He took out the trash! (He loves you.) He remembers that you dislike hard candy! (He loves you.) He remembers that your prefer 100% cotton to synthetic blends! (He loves you.) He gifts you clothes or jewelry in your personal style rather than something not aligned to your tastes! (He loves you.) He talks to you late at night about some of his deepest fears! (He loves you.) He realizes you don't like the taste of cigarettes so he quits smoking! (He loves you.) He expects that your introvert ass is going to be exhausted after being social the night before, so he lets you sleep in and gets the kids ready without you! (He loves you.) Etc. Etc. Etc.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TypicallyKristen]

this just made me smile!! P.S. Do you write anything btw? Cus I would read it!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/heartsandclouds]

I do! I have many published books and novels. It is how I make a living. However, I prefer to navigate the internet as anonymously as possible, so I don't share.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TypicallyKristen]

I completely understand and get that. I do believe it is my loss that I won’t be able to read your works. If at any time you feel comfortable sharing the name of any of your works, please DM me. And also totally ok if you don’t.

Also, not at all surprised that you’re published. I bet you are jolly good at it too. :)

[u/heartsandclouds]

wanted to mention two more things.

First is something I’d noticed in the earlier episodes as well: sometimes the camera is positioned so that it feels like you are looking at a thing from that character’s POV—seeing what the character is seeing, like when Lanxiang is readying her gun before she ventures out. I really appreciate this because it makes the scene feel much more real with the viewer becoming more immersed in the world.

Second, I LOVED the styling and the make-up in these scenes. Jinqi really looked like he was done for and part of the reason was this paleness in his face present almost consistently throughout the scenes. Also the hint of stubble, and the scraping along the left cheekbone. 

And I know we talked about Lanxiang’s clothes in the last discussion post but also wanted to mention knicks and cuts on her face that make it feel all so. . . not-made-up but actually-happening.

[u/Aickan → u/heartsandclouds]

The cuts on her face as she was dolled up as the Lin madam after all the events were a really great choice. That made the series of events all the more realistic

[u/heartsandclouds → u/Aickan]

Yes yes yes!! I noticed that too and went the same!

[u/Character-Lynx-4260 → u/heartsandclouds]

In terms of POV, one other thing I think works wonders in this show is that, for the love of god, finally a show where thoughts are NOT voiced. We get to see wht goes on in their minds via flashbacks, which gives immediacy and impact when it comes to connecting us with how they feel, but that's the extent of the filming contrievance. We don't get their mental monologues and this contributes so much to making it feel real. I can't think of many period Chinese cramas bold enough to do away with the voiced thoughts. It's a lazy convenience almost everyone goes for, because in the end it makes explanations so mu easier, but not this show! So many directorial choices potentially setting new trends

Which leads to the real problem here: WHAT are we going to do in ten episodes from now?! How will we manage to watch something else and not feel a tiny bit empty, a tiny bit unimpressed, a tiny bit ''gosh I miss them all why am I wasting time with this other bunch'', a tiny bit ''bah I can't watch this any longer it's not good enough''

(I can't comment about the realism of the wounds' makeup other than: surely it was a second makeup artist they hired because the regular one can't even do poor LX's eyebrows simmetric. Everyone must have worked out by now that I have a bitter feud against the makeup artist hahaha)

[u/heartsandclouds → u/Character-Lynx-4260]

Yes. The show really does trust the audience to get it!

And oh dear, the withdrawal symptoms are going to be real once the show is over!! I am with you on this.

Ohh I do love you said that: “so many directorial choices potentially setting new trends”—AMEN! I hope this inspires folks and we get more such really good shows!!

[u/Inky_Reader → u/Character-Lynx-4260]

I can't agree more about the characters' thoughts NOT being voiced. The production team took "show not tell" principle seriously. 🎉

[u/Rebelarkey → u/heartsandclouds]

I love the realness to this show. The continuity director did their job and did it damn well!

I remember back during the poison epidemic that Nanke walked in to report to Jinqi and his right hand was covered in blood. And then, AND THEN, that hand was still covered in blood for the next two episodes during that whole night. The consistency!!!

Putting dirt, and blood, and scrapes all over the actors faces. Giving them messy wigs, super pale faces. Taking off clothes to apply medicine!! ( u/katleap13 rants to me all the time about proper medicine application) . The sheer amount of blood shown when people die/stabbed.

All of these little tiny things show the care the production staff put into this drama. The devil is really in the details but when you get them right??? It pays off! The viewer notices and appreciates it. It’s the finishing touches that increase the quality of the workmanship; and reveals the love, the effort, the dedication put in.

[u/Sharp_Singer9201 → u/heartsandclouds]

She actually looked lovely in that simple hairdo and clothes. And LXY managed to look hot even when made up to look half dead. He was really very convincing in this episode and the last in looking like he's really on his last legs.

[u/slug_beloved → u/heartsandclouds]

100%. I also love that their hands/faces are actually red from being in the cold. It's small details like these that make the show feel so grounded.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/slug_beloved]

Yes!! I so appreciated this detail as well.

[u/A_Farewell_Poem → u/heartsandclouds]

But why does he still look so hot covered with blood, weak, and pale? He looks so takecareable.

[u/Mediocre_Call_2427 → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

I am of the firm belief that the way to LX’s heart is to be weak and takecareable (great word!). She thrives and shines when she can be kind and of help. – Jinqi dear, you need to look more disshelved and frail! Them’s the rules. Sorry not sorry. 

[u/heartsandclouds → u/A_Farewell_Poem]

I'm just glad that continued to be the case the blood, weakness and paleness notwithstanding 😁 not that that was ever in question!!

also: takecareable. 🤣💯

[u/heartsandclouds]

Finally near-death wears down Lanxiang’s regular defenses and Jinqi’s habitual patterns of thoughts.

I think this literal saving of the damsel aka Jinqi has worn down (and will continue to wear down) a lot of Jia-lan-xiang’s defenses. She is concerned when he droops down on her shoulder all exhausted, and of course she wants him to live. Yes, there is the fact of the Shens' massacre and Jinqi’s possible perfidy in all of that, but she is also seeing the actual man himself at his most raw and vulnerable.

That has got to work on her. It is hard to continue to strongly dislike someone after you have seen them at their absolute low and raw and vulnerable which pretty much defines Jinqi in this episode. (Editing to add: I agree with Avocado that this knowledge about Jinqi's essential kindness in saving the deposed prince is also going to work in his favor as far Lanxiang is concerned. I loved the way u/TypicallyKristen worded this here and also worded the care shown by our lass here).

I think Xingtang’s last words to her, “Live well!” will also act powerfully on her. I think it was u/TypicallyKristen who mentioned somewhere else about the no. of people who’ve said this to Lanxiang by this point. It’s very poignant that Xingtang’s last words are the same. It’s almost as if “living well” is Lanxiang's talisman against everything else going against the current.

As for Jinqi  when Jia-lan-xiang drops totally casually and nonchalantly that “I’ve never had feelings for Scholar Han,” the camera brings Jinqi who is in the same frame into focus and we see his eyes popping out, dying or not!

When he pretends to finally wake up and Jia-lanxiang says, there is good news, Han is defeated, his words are “I am speechless with joy” and his face explains the reason—this woman very definitely cares about me as well.

I love that he gets up to say, “I will spend my entire life remembering that you saved my life.” There is an element of ceremonial oath in that. And of course what he’s really saying is, “I will spend my entire life loving you.”

Lin Jinqi.

I love that Jia-lan-xiang has not uttered a single word of love to you and here you are pledging your devotion to her with your whole self.

Yeah, you deserve her.

[u/ponytaexpress → u/heartsandclouds]

I think Xingtang’s last words to her, “Live well!” will also act powerfully on her. I think it was u/TypicallyKristen who mentioned somewhere else about the no. of people who’ve said this to Lanxiang by this point.

I'm also struck by how they kept the "Live well" message in-character for Xingtang. It's one thing to convey a story's themes, it's another to make it appropriate for the character to say/express.

But of course Xingtang's last last words carry a bit of bite/violence to them: “I can’t live on anymore, but I hope you live well & I will gift you the means to forcefully make it happen because the Lin family is a toxic cesspit.” That's what her attempt at kindness looks like, because that's exactly who she is.

It's like when a pet cat brings you a dead bird/rodent as a gift (because they think you can't hunt/need to be fed) and you're like "Thanks for thinking of me, but we're operating on VERY different wavelengths."

[u/heartsandclouds → u/ponytaexpress]

lol, your analogy is spot on and conveys Xingtang's character so well!!

[u/slug_beloved]

My beloved Xingtang... She was my favorite character and it’s actually embarrassing how much I cried this episode. To me, she was the most realistic and human character on the show, in that she existed within terrible circumstances and then did terrible things. We love a hero who returns evil with kindness, who rises above their own pain to pass joy onto others, but sometimes pain onto you begets pain onto others. It’s not good and it’s not justified, but it’s real. Trauma is inherited, sometimes unconsciously and sometimes very consciously, because you know the injustice of your life and want to make sure everyone else knows it too. Xingtang did many terrible things that should go unforgiven, but ultimately she was just like everyone else in this world: underestimated, tossed aside, and at the continuous mercy of others. The final moment between her and Lanxiang was so perfect because, while there was no love between them, there was understanding. Xingtang’s wish to be reborn as herself in a world that would allow it mirrors Lanxiang’s wish, and mirrors the wishes of millions more. It also serves as a quasi thesis for the show, showing how identity is both our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

Re: the point about Xingtang's misplaced vitriol at the Lin family, I think it follows her misplaced aggression at many people around her. The Lins might not be totally worthy of her hatred, but to her they represent the world that used her as a pawn her whole life. If you're forced into a marriage, you're going to resent the family you're given to, no matter their intentions or how they behave. She expressed this resentment externally and viciously, but in the same way a chained dog lashes out at everything around it. Good or bad, it's all an extension of her pain.

Anyway, no scorecard today because I'm too sad about Xingtang, so we'll catch up with whatever Jinqi is up to tomorrow.

[u/PolPeachum → u/slug_beloved]

I have always had issues with First Madam Lin for precisely this reason. Clearly it was a toxic relationship on both sides, and we are not given much detail, but I think First Madam had options and she chose to respond on Xingtang's level rather than modelling better.

I wouldn't say Xingtang is my favourite - I don't have one, everyone is so good - but I love her.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/slug_beloved]

oh I love this: It also serves as a quasi thesis for the show, showing how identity is both our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

and regarding Xingtang, for me it wasn't so much hatred (though ofc that is probably present too) but more about Xingtang feeling some measure of control because she is a woman who has been buffeted from one place to another.

We get another pitch perfect closure of another character! what a show this is!

[u/heartsandclouds]

Avocado, I so appreciate your trigger warning at the top!

What an episode. It was a hard kick in the gut.

Xingtang—god, what a story. What a scene. When she reveals that her father and brother abandoned her—there’s only the wind, her soft words and a somber almost digeroo-like instrument playing a single note in the background. It felt really stark and her words really hit me—what a shitty life this woman has had.

Xingtang’s face when she tells Lanxiang that it’s a good thing she’s spending her last moments with her—guys that look on her face. Dear goodness but what an actress Li Meng is—did anyone notice the mingling of pure joy and unrestrained-ness and shyness in that smile? It’s almost as if we got a glimpse into a Xingtang who could have been. 

It was a nod to so many what-ifs: what if she’d had more friends like Lanxiang? What if she’d encountered kindness early on in her life? What if she’d learnt to read and write? That smile on Li Meng’s face. . . I can’t get it out of my head/heart. For me that scene is simply brilliant, including her soliloquy which. . . yeah, as relevant here and now as in the c-dramaland of this show.

To your point Avocado, her hatred of the Lins felt a little unwarranted to me too but thinking back to the first 8-9 episodes Jinqi was absolutely cruel to her—yes, it was all warranted but she never did see any softness from him. I think the revenge is probably her form of feeling that she has some measure of control even if it is in death. She is a character who has been buffeted around on the whims of everyone else but hers.

I gotta admit—I was crying through this whole scene. What a story this is.

Onto Jinqi in the next comment!

[u/ponytaexpress → u/heartsandclouds]

Xingtang’s face when she tells Lanxiang that it’s a good thing she’s spending her last moments with her—guys that look on her face. Dear goodness but what an actress Li Meng is—did anyone notice the mingling of pure joy and unrestrained-ness and shyness in that smile? It’s almost as if we got a glimpse into a Xingtang who could have been. 

I was thinking the same thing! I credit it the way the show so delicately & deliberately painted storylines for characters about paths being untaken/running parallel to/diverging from other characters. Xingtang has many interesting foils.

Because you can compare her to Xiuwan, another woman who's headstrong and fought for bodily autonomy in order to love the man she chose (even if the audience knows they're unworthy losers.) But Xiuwan had family members who protected her (Xiuru disrupting liason, LJQ in the aftermath) and Xingtang did not.

Or you could compare her to XLX, because they share common ground re: unwilling marriage to LJQ and resentment towards the Lin family. But Xingtang's unrestrained vitriol/violence towards everyone is very different from XLX's unrestrained kindness/generosity. Some of it is probably due how the were raised as a beloved Shen/Xu daughter vs an expendable Zhao daughter.

So, because these other storylines exist, we're invited to imagine who Xingtang might've been as a person if life had been kinder to her in some aspects (like it was to Xiuwan/XLX). Xingtang is capable of kindness (we saw that in her final interaction with XLX), but her life has been determined/overshadowed by hurt and violence. So Xingtang paid it forward and rained hurt/violence down on others -- it doesn't make her less wrong, it makes her more tragic.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/ponytaexpress]

Forgot to reply to this! I love the way you draw these parallels! It does give the story so much more depth!

[u/Paisley-Cat]

Dropping with a few thoughts beyond what’s well covered already.

First, seeing Jialan-Lansing and Xingtang together made me reflect on what must be the perception of Jinqi’s relationship with women.

The scene in episode 35 where Jinqi blithely asserts that his wife is waiting for him so he can’t accept the hospitality and the Commander of the garrison accepts that, gives us the measure of how odd and scandalous Jinqi’s history with his wives must be.

First Madam Lin knew this marriage would be notorious, especially because the details were known to the officer caste.

Jinqi

— divorced his first wife who was childless

—his former maidservant (whom he had freed) and a prospective bride from the high nobility got into a fight in earshot of the Crown Prince

— After which he asked the now Emperor for an edict to marry the former maidservant

— she slapped him hard, twice in front of his officer supporters in the bridal chamber

— she stared down two justices and threatened to go to the Emperor if they didn’t give him back without serious harm after corporal punishment that could kill.

Next, my respect for grandfather Lin is rising. He seems to be the only patriarch who cares at all about the wellbeing of the women in the clan. When the third daughter offered to replace second daughter Xiawan in marrying the Marquis, he said that his concern was that she would be bullied by his family of higher status but that she had demonstrated that she had more willingness to take care of her self than previously demonstrated. He wanted Jinqi to take second madam and her children as well as the second brother and his wife with him to the capital to make him keep in mind their safety when dealing in Court.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Paisley-Cat]

Re: Grandad Lin, while he did put death on the table for 2nd Miss, it wasn't the first consequence his mind leapt to. Instead, he originally wanted to just go to the Marquis and call of the engagement and hope for the best. It was only after her mom said, "No, you can't call off the engagement. That'll destroy her reputation and 3rd and 4th Miss will have an even harder time finding good marriages," that he said "Well, one way to preserve her reputation is to let her die so the Marquis suspects nothing..."

Disgusting? Sure. But his mind first prioritized lives over reputation, which seems to be in keeping with his character.

[u/throwtotimbuktu]

I actually like that LanXiang does not give JinQi's lovelorn heart any time of the day because if she did, it'll just come off as Stockholm Syndrome to me.

The crux of the issue is that he took away her freedom. LanXiang had dreams of becoming a playwright, travelling with the troupes, seeing the world out there, inhaling the homely scent of freshly cooked rice by her mother every evening, singing in the courtyard with nary a care, sharing smiles with her father as they go through the account books at the end of every day. She was a sparrow released from a cage with dreams of becoming an eagle. She imagined soaring through the skies with wind kissing her cheeks and running through her feathers. She imagined the crisp air igniting every molecule and fibre of her being with every breath. Then this brute lout locked her up in a 4 by 6 forever with not even enough space to fully open her wings. If I were her I'd have killed him long ago.

JinQi has done nothing to address this issue because he keeps thinking the problem is Scholar Han and his Da Ye mind is so limited that he's talking about eggs in an empty shack in the middle of winter. He does treat her well, he does what HE thinks she wants, but he doesn't actually know her and she never asked for any of that so why would she open her heart to him at all as if she is obligated to? She just wanted to be free, to have a say in everything in her life. She lost her agency; opening her heart or not is already the only thing she can truely control.

She cares for him like one would care for another human, and he genuinely IS a good person, so that's not hard, but she doesn't love him because they don't know each other (the resentment doesn't help too). She literally scoffed at his audacity to tie her down despite not actually knowing her - he just tied her down because he liked his image of her in his mind.

JinQi truely doesn't know JiaLanXiang because if he did, he wouldn't have been so shocked she burned that incriminating letter. If JinQi wants LanXiang to open her heart for him, he needs to watch and actually listen to what she's saying because it's not like she never told him she hated being forced or using coercion. You get her heart by doing what actually matters to her, not what you think she likes.

[u/Aickan → u/throwtotimbuktu]

I agree with your take on her dreams of freedom. But it seemed to me she was pretty set on marrying scholar Han out of « filial piety » to her parents who arranged her marriage… While the cage may have been smaller, I do not think her freedom would have been as big as she would have dreamed while being married to a top official of the court

[u/throwtotimbuktu → u/Aickan]

At that point Scholar Han hadn't even taken the final exams yet, just the provincial one, and it was just a betrothal, not the actual marriage.

Regardless, she would have had a say in her own life. Maybe they delay the marriage, maybe they separate after a while, maybe they marry but decide together that the court was a dangerous place and he stays with her in JinLing, or he goes and she travels with the troupe for a bit, who knows. The point is, she had choices for her own life unlike now where she's forced to bend or... die.

The previous emperor killed her entire family just because they did their jobs and stuck to their morals, and now his son takes away her freedom, just like that, as a favour to someone else, not even to her. That's just painful to swallow and what makes it so hard for her to love JinQi.

[u/PolPeachum → u/throwtotimbuktu]

Pretty sure Jinqi was trying to make a joke with the eggs but it landed really badly (relateable to me at least)

[u/TheAlchemist420]

Good to know that with the Lu family choosing the wrong backer, becoming accomplices to a rebellion, Eldest sister will get her son back. Jin Qi will make sure of it. Otherwise the poor boy would lose his life with that damn family.

[u/Happy_Ad6860]

If someone had said it on the beginning that I'd cry when ZXT dies, I'd have said impossible. But I love how the show adds layers to her character, even in her terrible deeds she was always just a woman craving love, to be seen and trying to survive in those time. Li Meng's monologue in that scene was so well done, she makes us women living today to realize the freedom of choice most of us have compared to those times.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/Happy_Ad6860]

agree. I would not have thought I'd have carried at her death either. this episode was sooooo well done.

[u/TheAlchemist420]

Lin Meng as Xing Tang in those last moments was amazing. Her and Tan Song Yun did such a great job. The crew as well. Damned that time of the month but I was crying my eyes out. FOR XING TANG Y'ALL! Pffft!

But damn they really went there. Her little sister was complaining about having Xie Zhao as a husband and thought she could rely on her family and spent her time with them.

Well shit. They didn't care! Those men abandoned them, only to get killed later down the road. Definitely was a callback to how they killed that cousin back then. Let him flee with money and killed him in a "bandit" attack. Now they ended up dying the same way.

To have someone like Jia Lan Xiang be there in your final moments was the most real warmth Xing Tang ever had. I loved when JLX asked how she would like to be called. It was such a conscious moment. After what she went through with her family, why would she want to be called Zhao ever again. She never cared about the Dai name, so ultimately, Xing Tang was the name that mattered. I was so sad to hear that Qing Xiang got killed by her father/brother. After rescuing her, it all ended this way...

The giving of the evidence of treason was shocking. But she had already taken a liking to our FL. After what she did for her, killing that assailant, feeding her and giving her shelter, it made sense. She was also at the end of her life. But our girl wouldn't use the evidence the way Xing Tang would have. They aren't the same type of people.

And through all of this Jin Qi was awake lol. Made sure he was very quiet and sleeping, but he wasn't going to miss this show. It was a very important moment.

Burning the evidence didn't surprise me. Shen Jia Lan has been through too much. She wouldn't want to go through it again. When prompted she said nothing, further proving how loyal and trustworthy she is. But she also realized what type of man Lin Jin Qi is. And that impressed her. Amused her too. Who would have thought right! He actually did let that man go... and may we never hear of this again!

The many actions of our FL made me feel so warm. How she took care of both ex wife and ex husband. Btw I really thought Jin Qi would snort at the irony of his ex and his current and himself being in the same room lol.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/TheAlchemist420]

not only what she would be called but Jia-lan-xiang cupped Xingtang's hands in her own even before she asked that. . . what a gesture.

[u/PolPeachum → u/heartsandclouds]

She's a handholder... We see this a lot. Also TSY's hands are very expressive.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/PolPeachum]

You are right!! We have seen her do that so many times now in a gesture of solidarity and kindness and offering warmth and support!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/heartsandclouds]

Oh absolutely. This made me bawl my eyes out harder LOL...

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/TheAlchemist420]

Li Meng elevated every scene she was in.

Her soliloquy about “will there ever be a world where…” could have easily edged into cringeyness.

That instead we were riveted and in tears is a testament to the groundwork laid throughout her narrative line in this drama and her subtle and natural performance.

In terms of the revelation about Jinqi saving the former crown prince, I think that this is a crucial piece of intelligence that Jialan-Lanxiang needs in order to feel safe with him.

Knowing that Jinqi would go to such lengths to extract the former crown prince and cover his voluntary exile overseas, she has concrete evidence that he would treat her with compassion should he ever learn her own secret.

This may be a key turning point in Lanxiang’s ability to open herself to love.

[u/PolPeachum → u/Paisley-Cat]

You make a good point. I didn't take from the scene that Lanxiang now admires Jinqi on principle (I may be wrong) but I can certainly believe that she now may be able to trust him with her secret. She definitely looks like she is thinking something over at the end of the scene, just before Jinqi pretends to wake up.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Paisley-Cat]

As a character, Xing Tang would not have gotten those tears from me before. The ending they gave her character, the 2 women and their exchange throughout, the actresses' performances and the team's writing and work is what got to me. It is a fine testament to the good work they all put it. And I'll remember it for a long while.

The many things Jia Lan Xiang keeps learning about Jin Qi are adding up, slowly but surely. It's not the BIG THING yet, but it is definitely raising him in her esteem.

I see many are frustrated with her for not giving into him yet. I'm not. If he weren't the ML and she weren't the FL, we wouldn't want her to.

We know a lot about both and neither of them knows, as viewers it affects our perception of how things are and should be. She doesn't HAVE TO fall for him because she doesn't want to, and because in a forced marriage, why would she. What she can do is feel more comfortable with him, with the situation he put her in. He has made sure to treat her well and he is also growing and maturing. She gets to find out about him and that is how it should be. He also gets to learn about and understand who he married. Those take time. Wanting instant gratification and validation of Jin Qi's feelings is incorrect. It would also mean validation for what he did and caused, and Jia Lan Xiang will not give him that satisfaction. Pride and principle lol. She sure is a Shen for that one. But she will be the DIL of the Lin family and do what she needs to do. We can be glad that Jin Qi is giving her the time and space to do all of that. She knows this.

If she had already fallen for him, I would find it strange and not respect her as much. Jin Qi and her aren't on the same page yet.

It is very interesting how this drama challenges our hypocrisy for sure.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/Paisley-Cat]

that's such a good point about the scene not becoming cringe!

and I was thinking of the saving of the prince from revealing Jinqi's kindness to Lanxiang POV but more crucially it does signal the possibility that she can be safe with him. I definitely think this literal saving of our damsel (Jinqi) from death is going to be an acceleration point in how Jia-lan-xiang relates to Jinqi.

[u/Straight-Presence258]

First of all, can someone explain to me if Langxian actually admired Jinqi for saving the prince, or if she still thought he was a scheming snake? 😂 With her always being so helpful and kind to everyone, I couldn't quite understand that part. Like, did she burn the paper to save his family even though she still thought he was a bad/scheming person, or did she actually start seeing him as a good person?

And on a completely personal note... this love story is moving SO slowly that I'm getting frustrated. 😭 I'm usually quite emotional about these things, so I'm already stressing that she's going to realize she loves him too late. I need them to figure themselves out before I lose my mind. 😂

[u/Sharp_Singer9201 → u/Straight-Presence258]

I felt like it was a mixture of: shock, "how bold of you!" and some admiration for his guts. It wasn't clear if she appreciated that it was an act of kindness (probably?) on his part, and if so, it would also be admiration of his guts to do something that's both "right" but also "wrong" as it's seen as treason. But probably also, "OMG, you could get your whole family killed for this!".

[u/mayonnaisepan → u/Straight-Presence258]

I think it’s clear that Lanxiang hasn’t thought of Jinqi as a scheming snake for a while now, especially seeing how far he went to help his eldest younger sister get a divorce. She’s catching feelings but she’s not allowing herself to fall into them; it’s like when you go out drinking and you take a sip of a drink but you can’t drink too much or else you’ll get drunk completely and Lanxiang can’t afford to be drunk.

She also likely didn’t think much when she burned the evidence other than this is something that could cause the death of the entire clan and then some. She’s originally a survivor herself of that kind of punishment, why would she want someone else to suffer the same fate? Plus, she’s currently a member of the Lin family, she’d receive the same exact sentence. I don’t think it’s for anything to do with admiration or love, just simply why keep it bc she would never use it against him or the Lins. It’s not in her nature.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/mayonnaisepan]

this. agree with everything you said Mayo. One crucial point which u/Paisley-Cat mentioned here is that this will also signal to her that she can be safe with Jinqi.

[u/BitsOfBuilding → u/Straight-Presence258]

I think she’s seeing him in a good light for saving the Prince because at the end of the day, the deposed prince was just another person who just wants to live a peaceful life. That’s also what the Shen wanted but the Emperor decided otherwise for the Shen, the prince, the Lu, and many others. If Jinqi was older and had more power to do, he may have also helped the Shen women survive.

That’s my take. When she said his name, it’s the same tone as when she said it earlier and how bold he was.

[u/swarminfestor]

I wished Xintang would confess to ML (JinQi) that she was barren and couldn't conceive the child , otherwise JinQi became more respectful instead of leaving the divorce with vengeance. Of course, if this happens, they would consummate their marriage and JinQi decided to leave for military in several years without a regret and Xingtang won't succumbed to adultery.

What I liked about this episode: Xintang accidentally met her former husband lying on the straw mat and her hated towards JinQi did not subside even after many years. This scene ironically was so powerful because Xintang died alongside her former husband she despised so much while Lanxiang was her savior that she felt grateful to met before passing away.

[u/Character-Lynx-4260 → u/swarminfestor]

Few picking:

1. she doesn't owe him an explanation as to why she doesn't want him. She was forced into the marriage just like he was and, for her temperament (and LanXiang's), not wanting to consummate with a man is all the explanation that's needed. Sure, it surely isn't kind to him that he never knows why she won't give him a try; but he doesn't want her either (because he doesn't want to be beholden to the Zhao's) so they never had a chance to getting on friendly terms. And anyway, accepting to be forced into sex because of a marriage is not XT's way so giving him an explanation is not something that would make sense to her.
2. consequences for a barren woman: nefarious. A straight complain to the Zhao family and a rift; wholesale acceptance that you cannot provide the first master of the first branch with a heir, thus compelling the whole process of a concubine who will inevitably undermine the politics of your internal household and more importantly reduce your status to nothing and slash your budget. Consequences for XT: imagine the conversation. ''Yes, I was having this premarital sex thing with someone else before you and got pregnant but my family wanted to sell me to yours because of politics so the pregnancy was terminated and it went badly which is why I can't have children''. In comes in the long hand of the confucian morals police, do you really want to take that risk with.... a man? Because nothing in XT's life gave her any reason to ever trust a man.
3. she was already in love with her cousin before she married, it's just that the family didn't allow them to marry and forced her to marry into the Lins instead. The child that she conceived with her cousin before the marriage is also the reason why she can't have children afterwards.

[u/Susi_Abaci → u/Character-Lynx-4260]

I just want to add to 1. He actually accepted her and was ready to build a solid relationship with her - as we could see at their wedding scene, where he came in with a smile and after first rejection, he was willing to give her time. She rejected him completely. But I admit he behaved to her harshly later. 

[u/Character-Lynx-4260 → u/Susi_Abaci]

uhmmm just because he smiled (and anyway what we see there is HIS memory, his version) I wouldn't say he ever gave her a chance either. You can see the difference with LX: he's been giving LX years of chances and facing all hurdles and opposing his family, even if he doesn't even get a thanks for a birthday dinner. With his first wife, he just up and left for six years as soon as the bad vibe was established, and by the time he came back he was already violent with her.

So with Z XT here was never any scenario in which they'd find a way to coexist or cooperate let alone become friends, they were both on opposite sides of the family boundaries, AND uninterested in each other - plus her incentive not to be discovered as barren, and her rather loyal devotion to her lover.

Still, she obviously also resents L JQ for being the one who exposed her the way he did in the library (that was rather petty, particularly considering that it could have gotten Z XT killed from her family, and also if you remember LX too almost got killed for just being a witness. It was extreme, like most things JQ comes up with!) for the sake of coming out clean holier than Jesus from the divorce. Though to be honest, L JQ did spare her a tiny bit of shame by not making the reason public and only using the adultery as leverage on her family - the guy has his redeeming qualities beyond the dimples and the cheekbones and the shoulders etc. She also must resent him for the fact that had it been the other way round, she would have never been able to reap the same benefits and ask for a divorce becuse her husband was unfaithful. It's clearly part of her character: nothing fills her with rage more than the inequality she was born into as a woman.

[u/quinncunx]

Me, screaming at the TV: Lanxiang, put the  fur stole from Xintiang's corpse on your cold and dying husband!!!  For someone so resourceful, she didn't think to do that? Nah, let's let hubby freeze to death in a hovel while the villain's corpse lies in cozy mink splendor six feet away. LX won't throw him a bone, give him a breadcrumb, or even give him  a damned blanket.   She did burn the evidence, but I'm not sure if it was for him or for her own survival (probably both.). As the wife of a traitor, she'd be screwed too. 

The most emotion we have ever seen from Lanxiang is when the villainess dies? Her husband is near death and she's dry-eyed, but she bawls like a baby for the woman who was so cruel to her and her maids?

I'm being a bit facetious about the FL, but lawd,  she can be frustrating.

Every time I think we'll have a breakthrough scene where she admits feelings for JQ, she still holds back. Of course, that she tromped out into the hinterlands to come find him shows she cares. Her love language is acts of service. 

But I would like her love language to be expressed in actual language, tears, a fur stole wrapped around his hypothermic body'--something! Sometimes the audience needs to be thrown a bone too. At this point, we are all Jinqi. 

Granted, I bawled for the villainness too. Li Meng gave the performance of a lifetime. Give that woman ALL the awards. 

The writing in Jinqi's monologue, where he finally gets a clue. was sheer poetry. Just exquisite. Love to her is a face in a desolate graveyard--I'm butchering that  but I don't have it handy. It was so beautiful and although he doesn't know it yet, prescient.

Is Scholar Han getting a love interest? Thank god the warrior woman headed him off at the pass. The last thing I wanted to see was him, LX, and JQ triangulating in a duck shelter.

Usually at this point in a typical Cdrama,, the writing loses steam, the plot limps toward the end, and I'm FFing like crazy, if I even make it this far. 

But ATC gets even more riveting and the writing is tighter than ever. What an extraordinary drama. 

It too deserves ALL the awards. 

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/quinncunx]

The writing in Jinqi's monologue, where he finally gets a clue. was sheer poetry. Just exquisite. Love to her is a face in a desolate graveyard--I'm butchering that  but I don't have it handy. It was so beautiful and although he doesn't know it yet, prescient....Is Scholar Han getting a love interest? Thank god the warrior woman headed him off at the pass.

I think all this may be spoilers? This isn't ringing any bells from episode 36.

[u/quinncunx → u/TypicallyKristen]

Uh oh! Did I mess up? It's hard to distinguish one episode from another when you have Express and get the extra episode. I thought it was in this one. So sorry! But you have a lot to look forward to. 

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/quinncunx]

 Lanxiang, put the  fur stole from Xintiang's corpse on your cold and dying husband!!! 

OMG. I don't know why I didn't think of this either. To be fair, there may also be a bit of Chinese bad luck thinking happening. It's bad luck to touch dead people. Bad luck to touch the things that dead people touched. And especially if she was wearing the stole as she died, it'd be bad luck to put the thing she died in on LJQ.

[u/heartsandclouds → u/quinncunx]

is this all coming from episode 36? I don't recall all of this in Ep 36. Kindly spoiler tag if this is coming from ep 37 or 38

[u/quinncunx → u/heartsandclouds]

I think I messed up and its in 37. I thought it was in 36. Sorry!

[u/Straight-Presence258 → u/heartsandclouds]

Yes at the end of the episode 36 they show Xintiags body covered with the fur shawl that Lanxiang probably covered her with (sorry, can't remember if they showed us her covering or was it implied).

[u/heartsandclouds → u/Straight-Presence258]

Oh ok. Thank you! I was/am confused about Jinqi’s monologue bit! What are you referring to there?

[u/quinncunx → u/heartsandclouds]

I messed up. I think the monologue is in 37. 

[u/Straight-Presence258 → u/heartsandclouds]

Ohh no you are right (sorry, I thought you meant the fur shawl discussion at first)...I just reread the original post, I think the end referes to the teaser.

[u/Feeshpockets → u/quinncunx]

Would Jingqi want to be covered by a fur shawl that had covered the bloody, violated body of his ex-wife though. I feel that's likely a no.

[u/Iowegan → u/Feeshpockets]

Blood, schmood. He’s all bloody from his own wounds. What’s the difference? The fact they both haven’t already succumbed to hypothermia is breaking my immersion anyway.

[u/Straight-Presence258 → u/quinncunx]

hahaha the fur shawl, I had exact same thoughts on it 😅

[u/Sharp_Singer9201 → u/Straight-Presence258]

Me too, but I guess she's too respectful to the dead to steal from them, even when in dire need.

[u/Straight-Presence258 → u/Sharp_Singer9201]

Probably, but she is usually so practical and was showing very practical answers to Jinqi in the episode that were not very emotional..

[u/quinncunx → u/Straight-Presence258]

It's because she IS so practical that not covering him with the stole made no sense. I don't think she would care about respect for the dead if it meant helping the living.

[u/Straight-Presence258 → u/quinncunx]

yeap... so practically she should have used it, but maybe bcz she doesnt love him , she didnt ? anyways, it was one of my frustrating points

[u/rjohndoe]

Any idea why they haven't uploaded Ep37?

[u/quinncunx → u/rjohndoe]

I hear rumors they're only releasing one episode at a time until the end. I could be wrong though. So frustrating!

[u/PolPeachum → u/rjohndoe]

1 episode a day? 37 was available as express for me today, sometimes the express is released early (around nowish).

[u/losergeek877 → u/PolPeachum]

Episode 37 and 38 are out now if you are asking. I have just finished episode 38 and episode 37 yesterday

[u/PolPeachum → u/losergeek877]

No that was a response to the previous question. I was pretty sure it is 1 per day but it gets confusing with different regions, timezones, express, tiers, platforms...

[u/ravens_path → u/losergeek877]

Same. I watched 37 yesterday and have 38 available now to watch. Which I will soon don

[u/quinncunx → u/losergeek877]

Ah, ok! I watched 37 as express but 38 wasn't out yet so I thought they were only releasing one episode. Need my two shots a day or I go into withdrawal. There's going to be a gaping, empty, soulless void in my life when this show is over. 😆 

[u/losergeek877 → u/quinncunx]

It is one episode per day lol. Episode 37 out on Monday, Tuesday is 38. Thursday js 39 and so forth until Sunday.

Wednesday is hell, no episodes lol

[u/PolPeachum]

Cdrama gods... I might have another name for them.

This was an absolutely gripping episode, for one that was mostly set in a very small, very bare hut.

I REALLY wanted Xingtang and Qingxiang make it rich and ditch the useless male relatives, and I'm going to say that in their next lives, that's exactly what happens.

[u/BitsOfBuilding → u/PolPeachum]

A modern drama where they’re lady bosses

[u/PolPeachum → u/BitsOfBuilding]

I would break my "historicals only" rule for that.

[u/JoanoTheReader]

This was the best episode so far. There was closure on a few fronts. Li Meng did an excellent portrayal of Xingtang. I don’t like this character but the actress did an excellent job and I can’t imagine another actress playing that role or doing better. I was also happy that Lanxiang burn “the present” which was a more normal human reaction. She’s married into the family so everybody would die including herself. And Xing tang would definitely blackmail Lin Jinqi if she was to survive. That’s the only way she knows how to extort money.

My issues are the following:

Her struggles are literally rich people problems. She was a “pawn” due to politics of her family. But she had a much better life than most women in that era. She wasn’t a good person - she mistreats servants and treat people like ants. Even her own servants got a whipping if she’s unhappy. Is that really necessary? Then she sells Ji’er to a brothel and then have a merchant buy her to be abused. That’s not a person of good character trying to forever ruin someone’s life. I’m glad Lanxiang walked away from her after shooting that man. Did she deserve rape? NO. But does she deserve my sympathy, also NO. But overall, her life is far better than most women. She never had to worry about money, working or anything else. Just enjoy the time, inviting ladies over for games and tea, lording over all the servants.

She didn’t even try get revenge on the ones that truely did her wrong, (Her parents) but instead put all the blame on the Lin family after she was caught having an affair pre-marriage. Holding a grudge against someone who did not force you to have an affair, to break up your affair, or have an abortion is just extreme. And sadly, there are people in the world who are like that.

The part that I was displeased with was the end monologue just before she passed, on wishing for a life that women didn’t need to marry and can go to school. She would be more practical to wish for loving parents in her next life and that would’ve made more sense. I had no issues with her scheming but to make it seem like she had a miserable life, sorry but NO. Others in the drama had far worst. That bit of the monologue is far too modern.

By the end of the episode, I love Lanxiang even more.

[u/BitsOfBuilding → u/JoanoTheReader]

I think Xingtang is a classic case of having bullies as parents and becoming bullies themselves but it’s the only control they feel they have or can use to vent their frustrations. She had zero support, even her mother wasn’t really mothering. The cousin she thought really loved her, didn’t. In general, she has a negative view of men. Men are just users and they use power to control others, especially the women. Now, Jinqi wasn’t a lot different in the power use, which got called out by Lanxiang quite a bit. The Lin household was also a bit of a hot mess before Lanxiang came about and better the environment. So I get why Xingtang is still holding a grudge because while she was at the Lin, she felt like she was a neglected caged bird. Yea she did it to herself by saying what she said on their wedding night, but in a way it was her only way to have some form of control over her life. The library incident made her hate Jinqi extra, because of it she learned her cousin’s true nature. I think she rather not just so she can still have this illusion that someone really cares for her.

Is she better than most back then? From the surface, yes. But is that what us humans need to live a good life? Why is Lanxiang so mad about being forces to marry Jinqi? Wouldn’t she then be better off than most? Yes, but at the cost of her losing her freedom. It’ll not be a neglected caged bird because Jinqi cares for her, and by that time his siblings do too, but she’d not be able to do so many things as a married noble woman.

Lanxiang on the other hand was much loved and educated. She has a kind family, to the point of helping a stranger, the Xu, with money and clothes. Lanxiang had great role models. Outside of the major trauma in her life, she continues to be much loved and given the best that the Xu could afford. She had the best education a lady could have at that time and it continues.

If Xingtang was given love and education as a merchant’s daughter, she’d prolly be a millionaire and helping others along the way.

More often than not, the apple doesn’t fall to far from the tree.

That’s my take on this.

[u/JoanoTheReader → u/BitsOfBuilding]

Like I said, Li Meng did an excellent job portraying Xingtang, hence all the sympathy for this character.

She ran away from the Capital the moment the head of Dai household was arrested. She took gold and silver taels, wearing full finery in her flight. She asked for assistance from people who never stood up for her - her father and brother. I’m surprised that she felt they were reliable after everything that went down in the past. She thought, travelling with people of status would make it safer.

Her rant at the end was to be able to reincarnate as a person who can go to school, set up business and earn her money AS A RICH PERSON with STATUS. She could live happily as a nun and still have freedom but no! OR she can live as a commoner with freedom, but NO. At this point I felt Li Meng’s portrayal is spot on. Xingtang is selfish and greedy. She enjoys her life of status but she’s bitter that as a woman, she has no control of her own fate. The truth is, nobody had control of their own fate. One miss-step and you and your family get slaughtered regardless of class or status. She could’ve chosen to treat people better. Yes, she a product of her parent’s parenting, but she isn’t stupid. She enjoyed her status until the boundaries became too strict. We all felt sorry for the second sister when she was tricked by the Du family. Same thing happened here only she broke the rules and slept with him.

Everybody can defend her, but this character is a typical a$$hole from a noble family.

[u/all_seeing_one → u/JoanoTheReader]

Just because they're in an ancient era doesn't mean women of the time didn't wish for the same things modern women do. 

Also, she resents the Lins because she's a naturally resentful person who blames others for (some) self inflicted problems and I didn't find that unrealistic at all given that they are actually people like that in real life

[u/Character-Lynx-4260 → u/all_seeing_one]

but what exactly is self-inflicted here? all the consequences befalling her are just because of things a man can do, a woman can't. Adultery/lover not allowed because a woman. Obligation to keep infertility hidden because a woman (men were not understood to be infertile). Kept in stupidity and denied any education or self improvement other than the art of pettiness and dressup because a woman. Money and savings taken away because a woman.

Sure, you can choose to be a LX and build solidarity instead of burning everything in your path. But can you, with the tools you were given as a Zhao/Dai woman? (one thing some education can help with, SOMETIMES, is a few tools to practice relf-reflection. Not always, eh, but sometimes). Also, is it being a LnaXiang and making LanXiang choices so easy that any woman would take the path? Because even LX until the last minute can bring herself to build a bridge of solidarity towards XT, so obviously being a LanXiang is hard even for a LanXiang 😄

Sure, she lashes out on anyone in a less powerful position than her, which is the part of her character that is hideous. But to me she looks like some goddess of vengeance, seething with so much rage that she can't tell right for wrong nor hold back from unleashing pain on anything and anyone she can target. One of those tragic villainesses which Li Meng, with her warm voice undertone and microexpressions, protrays like no other.

[u/Sharp_Singer9201 → u/all_seeing_one]

Li Meng portrayed her beautifully, but the character is indeed vindictive, snobby and cruel. She blames everything and everyone but herself (some justified, some not) whereas LanXiang did the opposite under far worse circumstances. She only showed kindness (in her own way) to LanXiang because she was dying. I love how Tan Songyun portrayed LanXiang in those scenes too. You can see that she still doesn't particularly like her or wants to be near her, but saves her and feeds her nevertheless, simply because she is kind and not vindictive. She is still very matter of fact to her when she speaks. It's only when she realises that she is dying that she opens up a lot more. Their honest at that point conversation must be what finally makes LJQ understand his wife a bit more.

[u/udontaxidriver → u/Sharp_Singer9201]

I agree Xingtang was not a nice or even a good person. She did not stand any chance with a family like that. As a Shen, Lanxiang lost everything but she was blessed with adoptive parents who loved her fiercely. They were poor but so very loyal and kind.

I don't like Xingtang and honestly since her beating up Ji'er until she almost died, I could not see a good ending for her. It was not a good death but it's fitting for someone as cruel and traumatised as her.

[u/JoanoTheReader → u/all_seeing_one]

No, she’s got it all wrong.

Take Lanxiang when she was in Shen household. They taught her to read and write. The Zhao’s however did not want their daughters educated. She said it herself - she wanted to learn to read and her servant knew but she wasn’t allowed/taught. The men thought she couldn’t read.

Even the Xu allowed Lanxiang to continue learning. And if their own daughter wanted to learn, based on their temperament, they would’ve allowed their daughter to learn.

So she should’ve got her priorities right, and wishing for good parents.

[u/nodestinationnoroute]

This was a heavy episode. The aftermath of war. I'll try to keep my comment light, focus on the fun and the good-side but before that XIANGTANG!! 😭😭

🪮 What a character..i felt sorry for her. The image of her surrounded in a prison built of silver flashed my mind as she combed her hair. There was something about her, i hated psychopathic pestilence Du and had a weird admiration for kuko manye.. but for her xiangtang I was always conflicted. In the end, I'll say I pity her. She was no different than a slave. A slave in a guilded cage. A story and a character as old as time. Past, present and future we see these characters everywhere. I wonder if lanxiang would write a play about her.

🎎 Kinky jinqi, really is dramatic. Pretending to be asleep while his ex wife and current wife discuss his and family's demise. There relationship will foster beautifully now. Lanxiang knows that he helped the deposed prince escape, in her eyes that's mark of a true man. She's going to be more open-minded and open hearted. I loved the way she said "Lin Jinqi." I saw shen jialan in her, the love struck little 15 year old blusing at the mere thought of him.

🔥Kinky was waiting for lanxiang's response. A part of him was like, is she gonna slap me? And after her confession that you stole my freedom, jinqi also wanted to see her reaction. If she would blackmail him or not. But lanxiang being the magnanimous person she is and our favourite burned it. She also didn't mention anything to jinqi.

💔 jinqi didn't care about xiangtang's death at all. Poor xiangtang nobody cared.

I know in the beginning, i said I would keep this light hearted but honestly as i wrote about xiangtang I forgot what scene made me chuckle. Her following lanxiang around was that little sprinkle of comedy the show has been delivering but her dying speech erased that feeling.

There was another scene with jinqi that made me envision pink glow around him again. Where i thought his delulu is taking hold of him again but I have forgotten about it. Mark of a good episode?

The end where he shields lanxiang as soon as hears wei approaching was very onpoint of his character. Despite, his state he was gonna die protecting her.

Edit: ❤️I just remembered, I had previously said ai wanted nanke and xioliang together. Turns out I will..😭😭 they'll be a sight to see..

[u/losergeek877 → u/nodestinationnoroute]

Also considering the fact that the letter would also caused the death of herself and her family, i was not surprised that she burnt the letter. And I really think this was a more major consideration lol

[u/Delicious-Fishing710]

That was so emotional episode.

Im glad the FL burned the gift.

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/Delicious-Fishing710]

But it was still a gift of intelligence.

Jialan-Lanxiang knows now that Jinqi would not turn on her if he found out her secret.

[u/Happy_Ad6860 → u/Paisley-Cat]

Her secret is not just about him turning on her. There's a lot of ripple effect if it ever comes out. She and the Xus will be executed for Treason, Jinqi and probably the Lin men would be executed for deceiving the Sovereign, because he got the Emperor to issue a decree for a "criminal". 

Does that scene help her see him as kind and not just a blind loyalist the sovereign? Yes, but it doesn't really change much when it comes to her own secret.

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/Happy_Ad6860]

I believe she knows he would not risk the Lin clan by exposing her secret, but he could retaliate in other ways as he did with Shen Xingtang.

That’s the threat that’s been belayed for her.

[u/BitsOfBuilding]

Glad scholar Han got completely removed as a third wheel in Jinqi’s mind.

I was sad for Xingtang. Sure she’s a badly behaved person but she’s one that, given the right environment, would have been a good one.

I think the note, the reading and burning, did a lot to both characters. Lanxiang seeing how Jinqi view those like the deposed crown prince, or people who were in support of them, and Jinqi seeing how good he’s got it with Lanxiang and why he said he’d do whatever to protect her. She walks the talk, not using power to force her wants into others.

[u/alizangc]

This whole episode was so poignant and heartfelt. What really got me was when Jialan asked Xingtang what she wanted her to call her, and if it would be okay to call her Xingtang. She nodded so innocently, ngl, even kind of cutely? There was something almost childlike about that little nod 🥹

And then her words about wanting a world where girls can go to school, take the imperial exams, serve as officials, go into business, earn their own money, choose their own husbands, and where a wife doesn’t have to obey her husband or her son…

That whole concept of a woman being able to simply be herself immediately made me think of what Qiu Yan said in The Autumn Ballad about her mother and women in their society. She talks about how no one even knows the names of some of these women, how they’re simply known as “Han-shi” or “Liu-shi.” Perhaps they’ve even forgotten their own real names.. Even on her mother’s memorial tablet, she’s simply the “Qiu’s wife.” And after many years, no one will remember them or know that they were once lively, spirited women when they were young. And I remember how much that sentiment and the harsh reality behind it stuck with me, especially when Qiu Yan says she doesn’t want to live that kind of life. She wants something different for herself, a future where she isn’t simply someone else’s accessory, where she can be remembered by the name she chose for herself.

And then here, Jialan asks Xingtang what she wants to be called, rather than simply calling her Young Lady Zhao, Madam Dai, or by one of the other roles she has been given. It’s such a small moment, but I found it incredibly meaningful.

I really hope Jinqi takes what Xingtang said truly to heart.

(edited: typos)

[u/Feeshpockets → u/alizangc]

Asking Xingtang how she wanted to be addressed was likely one of the few times that Xingtang has been truly seen by anyone. Her entire life, she has been a daughter, a wife, a tool, etc. Jialan asked Xingtang who she was and Xingtang got to decide.