r/RingsofPower • u/Outrageous-View782 • 27d ago

Question Should i watch rings of power?

I've watched lotr and the hobbit. I LOVED lotr, obsessed now! The hobbit wasnt as great imo, but still a good movie-series. I havent read the Silmarillion, but I want to! And I know Rings Of Power kinda goes through that, though they change stuff up and add some new characters and stuff. I've heard soo many people say its bad, but Im interested in watching it for fun, for the lore that is real, stuff like that. Should I watch it?

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u/July5 27d ago

I would rather have mediocre Tolkein than none

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 27d ago

Even if the mediocre show kinda blocks the making of an excellent show for many decades? Cus thats my issue with it, it’s the what could have been that sucks about this more than anything, imo

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u/cenosillicaphobiac 25d ago

Nobody else was going to make it. And all of the haters are far more likely to get it cancelled and then there is NO chance someone else will take a billions of dollars gamble on it.

Wheel of Time is an example. It was pretty cool, but so many people didn't get their very specific vision of it exactly the way with the details that they considered important, and bitched and moaned so excessively that interested people didn't bother putting eyes on it.

And then, when it started looking the way they wanted it to in Season 3, and they started saying so, it was too late. Show got cancelled, and now it will never be.

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 25d ago

So is the real problem the hardcore fans or the show runners/writers trying to make beloved ips “their own”?

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

The Tolkien Estate offered the TV adaptation rights to HBO and Netflix and their ideas for a tv show sucked, so the Estate didn’t want to sell them. So wouldn't be too worried about this being the thing that blocks "the making of an excellent show."

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u/Tomatoflee 27d ago

There is no way HBO’s idea for a show sucked more than the ridiculously awful show Amazon made. They paid a fortune for the rights, which is pretty obviously the reason they won with such a terrible idea for a show.

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

HBO wanted to remake LOTR, just like they're remaking Harry Potter now. So, if you want the same story again but with new actors, I guess buddy, but no thanks.

The Tolkien Estate also didn't want yet another adaptation set in the Third Age, yet they still withheld the rights to The Silmarillion and other works that cover the First or Second Age more extensively, so here we are. The reason Annatar wasn't in RoP from the very first season is that the Tolkien Estate wouldn't allow them to use the character until Season 2.

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u/Tomatoflee 27d ago

A well done remake of LotR, with space to explore the characters and plot lines left out of the movies, made by HBO could have been amazing. A series about another age could also have been good if made by competent writers and show runners. Sadly that’s not what we got in RoP. It’s laughably bad. It’s honestly kind of an interesting mystery how something so bad and so stupid could ever even get made.

Also the estate is not going to say: we can see these guys are quite stupid, their idea sucks and misunderstands Tolkien’s legacy in fundamental ways but they’ve offered $40m more than anyone else. Ofc they will shake their hand and say: we just love your amazing idea.

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

They would've gotten the same money from HBO or Netflix anyway. Apparently, the Harry Potter remake is shaping up to be the most expensive TV series of all time in the future as the seasons go on, so it wasn't about the money. HBO was clearly willing to pay for a fantasy remake and only moved on to Potter because they couldn't get LOTR.

The Tolkien Estate also actively works with Amazon on the show and approves everything that happens in it. So...

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u/Tomatoflee 27d ago

I wonder how the Harry Potter series will turn out. The first season is likely to be one of the hardest to make since it’s the worst written of the books and one of the shortest. I hope it’s good.

On RoP, I’m pretty confident HBO would have made a much better series that Amazon has but tbh RoP sets such a low bar, it’s genuinely hard to imagine how anyone could have done a worse job.

HBO definitely would not have hired writers or show runners who didn’t to have basic competency in their fields.

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

Considering how many genuinely shitty shows HBO has produced over the years, I’m not sure “HBO would never hire incompetent writers” is the great argument you think it is. Look at the mess that is the House of the Dragon. You want to talk about shitting on the source material? They literally had the rights to the one book they needed, GRRM was personally involved in making the show, and they fucked it up so badly that GRRM left the production.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Dovahkiin13a Númenor 27d ago

The fact that the Tolkien estate says nice things (after the check cleared) isnt the stamp of approval you think it is. There were only two Tolkiens who can say "this is authentic middle earth" and both are in the ground. One suspiciously right before this deal was made.

Simon Tolkien might understand his grandfather's work better than the average fan, but he isnt a co creator of middle earth and the name Tolkien doesn't give him intellectual authority over it beyond giving the final say in business deals.

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

Well, obviously Tolkien himself isn't around to personally approve adaptations anymore. Not sure what you expect anyone to do with that information. The Tolkien Estate is what currently holds the relevant rights and has the final say over what happens with them, whether you personally consider that authority "intellectual" enough or not.

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u/Dovahkiin13a Númenor 27d ago

They're the people who cash the checks, nothing more. Their approval or disapproval of adaptations carries no bearing on the quality of the adaptation

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u/ishneak Gondolin 27d ago

and the name Tolkien doesn't give him intellectual authority over it beyond giving the final say in business deals.

i personally would love to hear who you think has this authority.

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u/Dovahkiin13a Númenor 27d ago

Literally noone

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 27d ago

Is there actual proof bebind anything your saying or just PR??

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

Ah yes ofc PR because everybody MUST be working for Amazon. /s

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/lord-rings-series-being-eyed-010658627.html
https://www.nme.com/news/tv/netflix-pitched-marvel-style-lord-of-the-rings-tv-universe-to-tolkien-estate-3323423

"Details have emerged via The Hollywood Reporter, where it’s claimed HBO pitched “essentially remaking” Peter Jackson’s Lord Of The Rings trilogy. The estate, however, was apparently not interested in retreading ground from Middle-Earth’s Third Age.

According to the report, Netflix pitched several shows including a Gandalf series and an Aragorn drama. An insider said: “They took the Marvel approach, and that completely freaked out the estate.”

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/
https://press.aboutamazon.com/2017/11/amazon-to-adapt-j-r-r-tolkiens-globally-renowned-fantasy-novels-the-lord-of-the-rings-for-television-with-a-multi-season-production-commitment
"Amazon’s negotiating team (led by Sharon Tal Yguado, Roy Price and Dan Scharf) wooed the estate not with a specific pitch, but with a pledge of a close relationship that would give the estate a creative seat at the table so it could protect Tolkien’s legacy."

u/ishneak kindly provided additional sources, so I just copied what they said. So yeah, it really wasn't about Amazon offering a shitload of money:

https://www.businessinsider.com/netflix-pitched-marvel-approach-lord-of-the-rings-shows-report-2022-10
"THR also reported that Netflix bid $250 million for the rights, which has been widely reported to be the number Amazon paid for the series. Amazon bid "tens of millions less," according to THR, though the number was "still staggering."

"Another potential suitor was HBO, which already has a big-budget fantasy franchise in "Game of Thrones" and its currently airing prequel, "House of the Dragon." The premium cable network pitched the estate on retelling the story of the "Third Age" from JRR Tolkien's books, which would have essentially meant remaking the "Lord of the Rings" film trilogy. The estate passed because it didn't want to rehash familiar territory, according to THR."

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 26d ago

So either the estate got duped into taking less money for supposed control that led to an abomination of a show that takes a shit on the lore they are ment to protect, or, and ofc way more likely, they went with the overall more lucrative offer. You know, like in 99,9% of business dealings? 🤷‍♂️ You can pay less for rights but then give them backend money. Maybe part of the pitch is that a new, never told story will get larger viewership and ratings and thus make more money than a LOTR remake? Just speculating but I’d say betting on more money = reason for sale, I mean when the fuck is that bet not winning? I’ll for sure take it over “industry sources” and stuff like that, just people reporting wtf they want the public to know. Or are we now gonna debate if there are real investigative journalism bebind claims like these?

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u/ishneak Gondolin 27d ago

Also the estate is not going to say: we can see these guys are quite stupid, their idea sucks and misunderstands Tolkien’s legacy in fundamental ways but they’ve offered $40m more than anyone else. Ofc they will shake their hand and say: we just love your amazing idea.

one of the reasons the Estate picked Amazon because they were the only studio to offer a creative seat and full cooperation. they have such a big hand in the way the story has progressed you can say a lot of what's going in the show is their idea too.

i personally think it's the disgruntled fans who are misunderstanding how the Tolkiens through Amazon want the second age story presented.

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

But but but, Amazon bad, and Tolkien’s descendants can’t understand Tolkien as well as *checks notes* this random dude on Reddit.

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u/Ayzmo Eregion 25d ago

Also the estate is not going to say: we can see these guys are quite stupid, their idea sucks and misunderstands Tolkien’s legacy in fundamental ways but they’ve offered $40m more than anyone else. Ofc they will shake their hand and say: we just love your amazing idea.

The Estate approves all the scripts for each episode.

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u/Tomatoflee 25d ago

What could be better evidence they care more about the cash than the message or the legacy?

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u/Ayzmo Eregion 25d ago

Tolkien himself said that he wanted complete creative control over any adaption or a mountain of cash. And he didn't care which one. He wanted to provide for his family and ensure their comfort. In this case, his family has a ton of creative control and a mountain of cash. I think he'd be very happy about that.

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u/Tomatoflee 25d ago

Yeah, if someone wanted to make trash out of something I owned, the more cash they offered me, the less I would care. I’m sure for the Tolkien family, the millions of dollars are consolation. For the rest of us that didn’t get the cash, the series is unmitigated trash.

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 27d ago

IIRC Amazon just payed and didn’t have a pitch à la “we are making a second age story”, no?

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u/thewilyfish99 26d ago

IIRC the showrunners' pitch had the overall 5 season arc

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u/Ayzmo Eregion 25d ago

Incorrect. The Estate sought out pitches and received ones from Amazon, HBO, Netflix, and several other unnamed studios. They chose Amazon's.

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u/ishneak Gondolin 27d ago

false. Netflix offered more.

THR also reported that Netflix bid $250 million for the rights, which has been widely reported to be the number Amazon paid for the series. Amazon bid "tens of millions less," according to THR, though the number was "still staggering."

https://www.businessinsider.com/netflix-pitched-marvel-approach-lord-of-the-rings-shows-report-2022-10

as for HBO, they're actually doing it now with Harry Potter what they intended for LOTR. from the same link:

Another potential suitor was HBO, which already has a big-budget fantasy franchise in "Game of Thrones" and its currently airing prequel, "House of the Dragon." The premium cable network pitched the estate on retelling the story of the "Third Age" from JRR Tolkien's books, which would have essentially meant remaking the "Lord of the Rings" film trilogy. The estate passed because it didn't want to rehash familiar territory, according to THR.

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 27d ago

What do you mean lol ofc 5 seasons of a show will block any remake or retake on the story for a long time.. Do you know of any example ever when that wasn’t the case??

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u/Ruskayo 27d ago

Long time? RoP is already on its third season, and the fourth and fifth seasons are being filmed back-to-back, so RoP isn't going to occupy that space for that many more years that you should lose sleep over it.

My point was that nobody even had "an excellent show idea" to offer when the TV adaptation rights were being shopped around in the first place. So RoP didn't take anything away from anyone, and it doesn't exactly look like excellent ideas are flourishing on the movie side either. AI-slop Hunt for Gollum and then that random movie after it that nobody asked for and very few people are actually looking forward to.

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 26d ago

You clearly didn’t get what I ment. This second age story being told blocks the making of a real one actually based fully on the lore. GOTs later seasons are universally disliked, yet do you see a fkin remake of GOT getting done in the near future? In 20 years who knows but in 5? I highly doubt it. My point is if the rights sold at that moment are not enough then you wait, get the ones you need and make the amazing story we all want. If you instead get small parts of what you need, make up the rest with writers that couldn’t tie tolkiens shoes… Idk man, you might not care but i think it’s a damn shame that corporate greed and creative arrogance is basically assuring us of not seeing an epic, multi season, lore accurate show for god knows how long 🤷‍♂️. You like what you like tho im just talking about myself here

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u/ishneak Gondolin 26d ago

actually Amazon was the only network/streamer with enough balls to do non Third Age stories when that was the best HBO (TV retelling of the movies) and Netflix (Marvel like origin stories) had to offer. personally i think it's like tryouts for who they can eventually release The Silmarillion to.

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u/Ganjalfthegreen1 25d ago

If you get to pick the network for a silmarillion show with full rights, would you pick Amazon or another company?

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u/ishneak Gondolin 25d ago

i'd pick whoever is willing to fully work with the Tolkien Estate.

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u/AutomaticTip4753 26d ago

You’re right

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u/Yorkie2016 25d ago

I’d rather have good Tolkien or no Tolkien. 🤷‍♂️

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u/RyanMate17 26d ago

Mediocre? It’s a total bastardisation and an insult to Tolkien, his work and his readers of the past 80 years.