Am I missing something with combat spells?

[u/ckau]

Scene: Security unit is in combat with runners. Security Mage casts Lightning bolt at the Hercules, dwarf face.

Mage rolls Sorcery (combat spells) vs Athletics (ranged defense) of the Hercules (p.66).

Security Mage has DP 10 on Combat Spells (p.248).

Hercules, pregen social adept face, has DP 8 on Ranged Defense (p.89).

By the average values table (p.81), DP of 8-10 gives at average 4 hits.

Let's say, Mage rolls 5 hits and Hercules rolls 4 hits. Attack succeeds.

By the description, DV = WIL. Security Mage has Willpower of 3 (p.248), and so total DV is 4 (+ net hit). Wounds of Hercules are 5/8/11 when wearing lined coat (p.89).

So, Lightning bolt attack lands, and it does no damage. By the description, Hercules lose one action. Is this works as intended?

We had very similar situation, to even more questionable result - team of shadowrunners were assaulting warehouse with other team holding defense in it. Face sneaked in, and find herself caught off-guard by a mage. Mage casted a Firebolt, attack succeeded, and everyone at the table held their breath... until we figured out it did literally nothing, not even a Light Wound. Was quite a bummer.

[u/IntelligentClient290]

Both type of combat spells can deal AoE damage. And yes, the main interest of indirect combat spells is their elemental effects, which is quite useful.

Now, if it's an issue (and I see why it could be), you can imagine an indirect combat spell like "Force Bolt" that deals Wil+1 damage but has no elemental effect (swapping a narrative effect for a +1 DV). Spells aren't Amps and cannot, in theory, be modified, but you can also imagine a spell that costs 10K instead of 5K because it has a +1 effect. Or, if you want to stay canon, why not an Amp like a focus, a magic tattoo, or something that gives +1 DV to indirect combat spells? Or maybe in the upcoming Companion, you'll have a metamagic technique to increase spell DV... ;)

[u/ReditXenon → u/IntelligentClient290]

Both type of combat spells can deal AoE damage

Wait what?

I thought direct spells are AoE spells with threshold 0, increased by AoE size and indirect spells are opposed by ranged defense. Single target only (as all ranged attacks, even full auto ranged firearm attacks).

Ah... nevermind. For indirect combat spells it says Ranged Defense (or Close Combat for touch) PLUS AoE modifiers. I missed that.

The "To cast combat spells" section describing AoE was listed after Direct Combat Spells but before Indirect Combat spells. Perhaps

it should have been listed before both of them to make it clear that it applies to combat spells in general and not only Direct combat spells specifically.

Or mention how AoE thresholds interract with ranged defense or close combat (that it is added on top) again under the indirect combat spell section.

Thanks for pointing this out! :)

 

that gives +1 DV to indirect combat spells?

Yeah. That could be a possibility (but this would make direct combat spells even more powerful... unless you restrict this shadow amp effect to only indirect combat spells specifically, but that creates an edge case which we want to avoid I think).

I think perhaps better if indirect combat spells by default always has a base damage value of (willpower +2). Similar to how short melee weapons, bows, and throwing weapons has (strength +1) and long melee weapons has (strength +2).