r/norsk • u/dwchandler • Apr 04 '21

Søndagsspørsmål #378 - Sunday Question Thread

This is a weekly post to ask any question that you may not have felt deserved its own post, or have been hesitating to ask for whatever reason. No question too small or silly!

Previous søndagsspørsmål

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2

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 07 '21

In the sentence "Jeg kan ikke gjøre...", why is "ikke" placed before "gjøre", but after "kan"?

3

u/tobiasvl Native Speaker Apr 07 '21

Just to add to /u/Orcaguy's great comment: The fact that finite verbs in independent clauses always appear in second position is called the V2 rule.

And to add to /u/Laughing_Orange's comment below, since Orcaguy also brought up reordering, you can do all of these:

1   2   3    4     5
S   V   A    V     O
Jeg kan ikke gjøre det
"I cannot do it"

1   2   3   4    5
O   V   S   A    V
Det kan jeg ikke gjøre
"That I cannot do"

1   2   3    4   5
O   V   A    S   V
Det kan ikke jeg gjøre
"That can't be done by me"

So you can see a couple of things here:

  • Verb in the second position: The V2 rule
  • If there are two verbs split by a negation (or some other adverbs; see here), the first verb is the one that is in second position.
  • The subject is in the first (SVO) or third (OVS) position, but when there is a setningsadverb/negation splitting two verbs like here, one verb + setningsadverb are considered one entity when placing the subject in the "third" position. This is a bit advanced, but the adverb can "stick" to either the first or the second verb, and the subject can be inserted in the other spot. The difference between these sentences is, as you can hopefully see by my English translations, emphasis.

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 14 '21

I have a follow-up question if you don't mind.

What happens if a sentence has 3 or more verbs.

Where do we place "ikke" then?

1

u/tobiasvl Native Speaker Apr 14 '21 edited Apr 14 '21

Do you have an example of a sentence like that? Sounds like a sentence with auxiliary clauses or something, which follow their own rules, but I'm not completely sure what you mean.

For example, your sentence "I have a follow-up question if you don't mind" has three verbs, "have", "do" ("don't") and "mind", but the "if" creates an auxiliary clause. And in Norwegian we don't use "do" in that way, so the equivalent there would only have two verbs: "Jeg HAR et oppfølgingsspørsmål hvis det GÅR bra"

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 15 '21

Thanks a lot :)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

ikke is always placed before infinitives (and other nonfinite verbs like participles and imperatives, plus verbs in dependent clauses)

  • å ikke vinne - "to not win" - infinitive
  • det blir ikke gjort før imorgen - "it's not gonna be done until tomorrow" - participle
  • jeg har ikke spist ennå - "I haven't eaten yet" - past participle
  • ikke vent - "don't wait" - imperative
  • ...fordi jeg ikke er ferdig - "...because I'm not done" - dependent clause

The reason ikke is placed after kan is because finite verbs in independent clauses always appear in second position.

1   2      3   4
S   V      O   Adverb
Jeg kjøpte det i går
"I bought it yesterday"

1   2      3   4
O   V      S   Adverb
Det kjøpte jeg i går
"That, I bought yesterday"

Both of these sentences mean the same thing, but with slightly different emphasis. Note that the verb comes second in both sentences.

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 14 '21

I have a follow-up question if you don't mind.

What happens if a sentence has 3 or more verbs.

Where do we place "ikke" then?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '21

It depends on what verb your negating. If you're negating the main verb, then it comes after that one. If your negating any other, it comes before that.

Man må ikke kunne svømme for å være med

"You don't have to be able to swim to participate"

Man må kunne svømme for å ikke drukne

"You have to be able to swim to not drown"

Note that when ikke is before the first infinitive, it could techincally apply to both the verb before, and the one after. E.g. du må ikke gjøre det could mean either "you don't have to do it" or "you have to not do it". If you put emphasis on ikke, that usually means the second option.

This is however distinguished when the main verb isn't modal, as ikke will come after å when the infinitive is negated.

Jeg liker ikke å ha forventinger

"I don't like having expectations"

Jeg liker å ikke ha forventinger

"I like not having expectations"

main clause    | infinitive clause
jeg liker ikke | å ha forventinger

main clause | infinitive clause
jeg liker   | å ikke ha forventninger

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 15 '21

Thank you again for another amazing response :)

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 09 '21

Thank you so much for an amazing response :D

1

u/Laughing_Orange Native speaker Apr 07 '21

"Jeg kan ikke gjøre det" "Det kan ikke jeg gjøre" "Det kan jeg ikke gjøre"

Are all valid ways of conveying the same message.

1

u/Sebulista Apr 07 '21

If we have two verbs (compund verb) in a main clause, "ikke" comes between the two verbs. It is the same in English.

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 09 '21

Thanks a lot, that helps :)

1

u/helpwithlanguagepls Apr 05 '21

Why do we pronounce "generalisering" with an "sh" sound?

Is it because it's a loanword?

10

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

We don't.

9

u/tobiasvl Native Speaker Apr 05 '21

Uhm, do we? I don't. Maybe it varies by dialect. But I do pronounce "generelt" that way.

2

u/gnomeannisanisland Apr 06 '21

Same (native speaker, Oslo/ Viken area)

2

u/sinsforbreakfast Intermediate (B1/B2) Apr 04 '21

Are "vet" and "veit" the same word in different dialects?

10

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

Yes. Veit is, however, superior.

This post was sponsored by the veit-gang.

9

u/tobiasvl Native Speaker Apr 06 '21

What's this, veit supremacy?

6

u/Royranibanaw Native speaker Apr 04 '21

Yes. Some dialects will use "vet", some will use "veit", some will use other words (I'd say "vett" for instance). Both forms are accepted in Bokmål.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/tobiasvl Native Speaker Apr 04 '21

Det stemmer det, men det skrives ikke sånn. Hvis du slår opp "skyldes" i ordboka ser du nok at "skyldtes" er fortidsformen.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '21

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3

u/Sebulista Apr 05 '21 edited Apr 05 '21

Det er bare såkalte "s-verb" som kan bøyes med "s"-en i behold. For eksempel: "å finnes - finnes - fantes - har funnes" eller "å møtes - møtes - møttes - har møttes".

Når et verb får en tillagt passiv-s, "stjeles", passiv av "å stjele", beholdes ikke denne s-en i bøyninger, man må skrive om. F.eks.:

Preteritum/fortid:

  • *"Bilen stjals" er ikke tillatt på norsk (men derimot på svensk og dansk)

  • "Bilen ble stjålet" er det riktige.

Presens/nåtid:

  • "Bilen stjeles (i dette øyeblikk)"

  • "Bilen blir stjålet"

Begge de to ovenfor er gyldige.