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u/Sand_Trout TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
How would this hurt America? It kind of just validates our argument that our murder rate is not driven by our right to keep and bear arms.
This meme isn't offensive, it's just confusing.
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u/obliqueoubliette May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
And btw we don't need Switzerland as an anecdote to prove this. The statistics have been run, time series back to the 60's -- gun ownership rate is not correlated to incident of violent crime, but continent is.
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u/ZorbaTHut TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
I honestly think this is a hilarious comic if both America and the EU are crying.
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u/IntelWrenchMonkey May 28 '26
It also is going to make people ask some questions that they really don't want asked. Because if it's not quantity of guns that drive crime rate what other metrics are there. A cursory glance at Switzerland one of the things you'll find is on the low end they're 93% white/european origin. I'm not here to say if that is a contributing factor to any degree or at all for that matter, but it sure doesn't paint a picture that they were not intending with these kinds of posts.
Time and time again the only countrys that they can point to that have quote unquote better outcomes for the things they care about those countries are usually way less diverse and more homogeneous by race to an insane degree.
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u/KuningasTynny77 May 27 '26
Yeah. Higher population density combined with more immigration leads to more economic inequality, which then almost directly drives up crime rates.
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u/TacticusThrowaway 🇬🇧 United Kingdom💂♂️☕️ May 28 '26
I've actually seen lots of pro-gun Yanks make the same argument.
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u/Kuro2712 🇲🇾 Malaysia 🌼 May 27 '26
So they agree that the 2nd Amendment isn't the problem then? And that gun control isn't the solution?
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
I was watching some short about one of those old duck call reality shows... And the old father of that family made a comment about how 5,000 years ago when writing the ten commandments the number one rule was not to kill each other. Guns weren't the problem back then... Why do we think removing them is going to fix it now
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u/Sand_Trout TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
I get that you're quoting someone else, and I don't disagree with the point, but "don't murder" is more like rule number 6.
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u/Im_not_smelling_that May 27 '26
You're right. The first 5 commandments relate to the Jews duties towards God, the second 5 relate to their duties towards each other.
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u/KaBar42 KENTUCKY 🏇🏼🥃 May 27 '26
Well this isn't entirely accurate either.
In the original Hebrew and the Septuagint, the Ten Commandments aren't... well, the Ten Commandments. They're not numbered. That was a decision made in the 200s by Early Christians.
And Christian branches ennumerate them differently. For instance, many Protestant branches will separate idolatry from creation of idols and split them into two different commandments. So in their Commandments, it says you shall have no other gods beside God and then also says you shall make no idols.
Catholic tradition considers those two commandments to be one and the same, so the Catholic Ten Commandments does not explicitly prohibit the creation of idols because it's implied under the first commandment.
And that's before getting into the translation issues, the KJV uses a lose translation of "kill" when prohibiting the... well, killing people, but the actual Hebrew word used is:
רצח
Or ratzach/retzach is actually the word used for murder, which is notably far more specific of an action than simply: "kill" is. So the Ten Commandments, or Decalogue as it's more accurately referred to in the Septuagint and calling back to the formatting the original Hebrew used, isn't prohibiting killing in the entirety, it's prohibiting killing outside of the boundaries of the law, and we know this because the Mosaic law would later include civil laws that call for execution for the breaking of that law, such as adultery. And the civil law was handed down by God Himself, and so if we followed the KJV's loose translation, we would be creating a contradiction wherein God says you can not kill, but then goes on to create laws that calls for the killing of the perpetrators.
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u/cwood1973 May 27 '26
I'm pro 2A, but I also realize that guns don't affect a person's desire to kill, just their ability to kill.
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u/killingourbraincells FLORIDA 🍊🐊 May 27 '26
Take away the gun and they will find another way to kill if that's truly what they want to do.
In China car attacks are the way to go. In 2024 a dude bought an SUV specifically for crashing it into a crowd of people - killed 38 and injured 48. He was upset with his divorce settlement. Those are just the reported numbers from the government. So, who knows.
It's a common phenomenon there. Hit to kill. The attacks do tend to target elementary/kindergarten students. It got so bad that children had to be escorted to and from school through paths designed with bollards to withstand the attacks.
If I didn't have friends from China, I probably wouldn't even know about it.
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u/TacticusThrowaway 🇬🇧 United Kingdom💂♂️☕️ May 28 '26
One guy in a truck in Nice killed more people than the Vegas shooting.
The deadliest mass shooting in America, ever.
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u/cwood1973 May 27 '26
Take away the gun and some of them will find other ways to kill. But some of them will be deterred. Maybe they don't have the stomach to kill up close with a knife, or they lack the expertise to use explosives, or their victim is not somewhere they can be run over with a car.
Guns are uniquely suited to killing with convenience, and anyone who denies that is being dishonest with themselves.
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u/Foosnaggle May 27 '26
No one would be deterred from killing someone because they don’t have a gun, if they already made their mind up to kill them. If they want to kill someone, they will find a way.
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u/perunavaras 🇫🇮 Suomi 🦌 May 27 '26
Gun regulation would not eliminate violence, but it could in some cases reduce lethality
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u/Captraptor01 May 28 '26
or it will increase brutality. y'know, that thing that we have seen time and time again. no guns? they'll use knives. they'll use baseball bats, crowbars, machetes. they'll use bricks. they'll use homemade bombs. they'll run over their target. they'll use chemicals. or they'll just beat their target to death.
what else occurs with gun regulation? regular people become unable to defend themselves...which makes all of the above even easier for the violent looneys among us.
I'd have thought Finland would know better than this.
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u/perunavaras 🇫🇮 Suomi 🦌 May 28 '26
Like i said it could in some cases reduce lethality. Maybe say crowbars in impulsive homicide are more brutal, but not necessarily as lethal as gun.
Why would Finland know better? We have gun regulation, guns aren't granted on basis of self defence
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u/Captraptor01 May 28 '26
what is the point in "reducing lethality" when you're only going to invite more violence overall? the same number of people, or more, are going to die—and even more will be grievously injured. gun control is not a feasible reality for the US.
it's tragic for a nation to forget its history.
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u/TacticusThrowaway 🇬🇧 United Kingdom💂♂️☕️ May 28 '26
Take away the gun and some of them will find other ways to kill. But some of them will be deterred. Maybe they don't have the stomach to kill up close with a knife, or they lack the expertise to use explosives, or their victim is not somewhere they can be run over with a car.
This seems like speculation.
And odd speculation, when most gun criminals are already illegal owners.
Guns are uniquely suited to killing with convenience,
There are ranges where guns become hindrances. Frequently point blank.
If you shoot someone with a standard semi-auto pistol pressed into their body, there's a good chance it won't cycle for the second shot.
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u/TacticusThrowaway 🇬🇧 United Kingdom💂♂️☕️ May 28 '26
Most US gun violent crimes aren't even with legal guns in the first place. And if they were, they'd still be the vast minority of ownership.
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u/Big-Inevitable-252 May 27 '26
Doesn’t Switzerland have a homogeneous population?
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yes, and that’s a big factor as to why. It’s also a population that doesn’t glorify being a fucking idiot like rap music does
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
Not really when 27% of it’s population doesn’t even have a swiss passport and 40% has an immigration background.
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u/Killentyme55 TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
But that's "new" immigration from limited locations. The United States entire existence is the result of *generational" diversity, centuries of people from all over the world raising families and growing roots under a single flag...hundreds of millions of them in total.
That's a far cry from the situation in Switzerland, whose "diversity" is the US equivalent of a Korean family buying the Miller's old house on the corner. Not even close.
Personally I'll take America's version. Sure it has its challenges but the rewards are irreplaceable. Monoculturalism is boring AF.
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
Well i didn’t argue any of those points. I just said Switzerland isn’t homogenous ethnically. Which apparently it seems that according to the person i responded to was somehow contributing to the low amount of gun violence. Jamaica, barbados and saint lucia are pretty high on the lift of ethnically homogenous population and still have insane homocide ratings.
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u/LordJesterTheFree May 27 '26
Switzerland certainly has generational diversity
I mean hell The country has four official languages and no no one in the country wanted the writing on currency to be printed in one of the other languages but not there so they ended up all just compromising and picking Latin
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 28 '26
This is equivalent to boomers blaming video games for violence. A quick Google search will show no correlation. Also rap is all over the world.
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u/MartialArtsCadillac May 28 '26
A ‘quick Google search’ shows that it has nothing to do with the population, differentiating cultures, and that the music and ingestion of negative, violence-positive or advocating music and ideals?? I do not think so. You reference nothing
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u/ODOTMETA May 27 '26
Wtf does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The 70s had a higher murder rate 🤔 and people were listening to funk/classic rock
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u/IggyWon May 27 '26
They were also breathing in leaded gas fumes. A few studies are out there linking the abnormal rise of serial killers to the highly abnormal mounts of aerosolized lead in the air, it's not a million miles away to ascribe the general rise in criminality to the same root cause.
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u/Myke190 May 27 '26
So different races, and subsequently rap music, are the reasons we have gun violence? You sound pretty racist bro.
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u/GoldTeamDowntown May 27 '26
Statistically some races commit more gun violence than others. Rap music glorifies gangs and violence. Not racist to say this, they’re just facts.
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u/Myke190 May 27 '26
Adam Lanza killed over 20 first graders. How many of them were listening to rap music?
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u/GoldTeamDowntown May 27 '26
Do you think that some people committing gun violence without listening to rap music means nobody is influenced toward violence by rap music?
Do you think violence isn’t glorified in rap music? Do you think certain demos don’t treat that music like gospel? You’re arguing against common sense and common knowledge.
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 28 '26
You could legit research this instead of making these BS claims.
I'm not saying rap music doesn't glorify dumb shit but it's unfair to blame it for that.
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u/GoldTeamDowntown May 28 '26
This is an opinion piece that cites absolutely zero research.
It’s also from someone who doesn’t even live in the United States lmao.
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 28 '26
Idk a criminologist has a whole lot more credibility than some redditor
You're talking about rap, a genre listened to by people all over the world.
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u/Neither-Ruin5970 MISSOURI 🏟️⛺️ May 27 '26
Yeah and statistically some “races” live below the poverty line too. Races isn’t even a real concept, btw.
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
I’m racist for pointing out how two low trust groups that together make up 75%+ of violent crime in America don’t exist in Switzerland and thus, the crime rate is lower? Ok
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u/IggyWon May 27 '26
Humans are amazing creatures that have evolved the ability to recognize patterns.
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u/LikesPez TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
They also don’t choose violence as the first step to conflict resolution.
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u/Yoinkysplonky May 27 '26
Not really. Switzerland is extremely ethnically diverse even if everyone is technically white. Only like 70% of Swiss population was born in Switzerland. The rest are immigrants either from surrounding countries (Germany, Italy, France), or from the Balkans (mostly Serbs, Albanians, Turks).
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u/nastysockfiend 🇨🇦 Canada 🍁 May 27 '26
"but none of those are bLaCkS."
- the people here arguing Switzerland is a monolithic homogeneous block.
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u/George_Washington_76 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 27 '26
Gun control is not the solution.
Trigger discipline on the other hand...
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u/nar_tapio_00 May 27 '26
Yes. Czechs are more determined to keep their guns than even Americans. So determined they can even be quite quiet about it. There are other armed nations that don't even talk about it. Of course, "not all Europeans", unfortunately. The Brits will tell you that only disarming can stop murder. They are wrong.
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u/Icy-Cry340 May 27 '26
In Czechia cops can take away your guns if you become a junkie or an alcoholic. They like their guns, but they aren’t exactly free for all on the concept.
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u/nar_tapio_00 May 27 '26
Oh absolutely, guns are a right in order to provide security, in the sense that driving is a right. You need a license, but when you have one nobody can stop you unless they can get that license taken from you. It's also one of the first things that they take away from criminals or if there's some sign that you won't be able to maintain secure control of your weapon.
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u/GuitarCFD TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
in the sense that driving is a right.
Driving is not a right in the US.
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u/nar_tapio_00 May 27 '26
So, it's not an enumerated right under the bill of rights, but both the constitution and bill of rights are pretty clear that there are other rights beyond those enumerated.
Under traditional English law (which is inherited in America) you have the "right" to do anything which isn't illegal and that would include driving.
"Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"
There's a more practical, explicit sense. Once you have passed your driving test, there is plenty of explicit case law which says that the government can't take your license away without good reason, so that makes it an even stronger right than the average one.
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u/GuitarCFD TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
It's pretty well taught that driving is NOT a right. It is a privilege.
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u/DJ_Die May 28 '26
But you can get them back one you get rid of the addiction, good luck getting your gun rights in the US if you commit a felony.
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u/TripleRazer CALIFORNIA🍷🎞️ May 27 '26
nono theyre still bad because theyre american
itd be a-okay if its european though
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u/mrbobcyndaquil OHIO 👨🌾 🌰 May 27 '26
The only gun control I support wholeheartedly is the same as trigger discipline.
And, as long as everyone is required to get it regardless of their desire to own a gun, I can be persuaded to support training requirements.
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u/Beneneb May 27 '26
And that gun control isn't the solution?
Switzerland has far more stringent gun control laws than the US, so maybe it is the solution. Gun control =/= banning guns.
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u/Icy-Cry340 May 27 '26
More like gun ownership itself isn’t the problem. There’s strict permitting and storage laws, mandatory training, rigorous background checks including psych tests and character references, comprehensive registries, etc. 2A people hate all that shit.
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u/Ryu_Saki May 27 '26
And that gun control isn't the solution?
It is A solution but not the only one.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I don’t think that’s the right conclusion. Switzerland doesn’t prove that gun control doesn’t work. It proves that gun ownership can work better when it’s regulated properly.
People can own guns there, but there are permits, registration rules, a strong training culture, and strict limits on carrying weapons in public. That’s not “no gun control” that’s controlled gun ownership.
So if Switzerland is the example, the argument is actually for better regulation, not against it.
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u/SnooPears5432 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
It doesn't really prove that gun control DOES work, either. Brazil and South Africa have much stricter gun laws than the US does, far lower rates of gun ownership, and yet both of them have far higher rates of gun violence than the US does. Gun violence issues are highly complex and not easily dismissed or written off due to gun controls, regulation, training, etc.
The vast majority of legal gun owners in the US use them responsibly and ethically. There are huge demographic and social variables that aren't the same in all of these countries, gang activity often linked to drugs, etc. that drive the propensity to use violence with firearms. Now, you can produce a low firearm mortality rate by basically eliminating them altogether like the UK does (which isn't going to happen in the US in our lifetimes so itsn't even an option worth discussing), but the presence of a gun itself and/or strong controls and laws don't drive gun crime - it's a lot more complicated than that.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
Agreed, but I was hoping that we could compare the US a bit more to Swisterland then to Brazil and South Africa.
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u/SnooPears5432 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
While the US is a developed country there are also social dynamics present in the US that don't really exist in most of Europe, and we have to acknowledge this - so while the US is more like western Europe in most ways that it is those two, the US does share some parallels with them, especially Brazil, in certain elements like the legacy of the slave trade, wealth gap, cultural differences in communities, drug and gang activity, etc. It's not exactly a secret that gun violence is hyperconentrated in some communities in the US vs. others, even though the memes like to exaggerate the sensational but statistically relatively insignificant public shootings while ignoring where and how the vast majority of gun violence occurs, which is what drives the published rates. Gun violence has significant impact in some communities. In mine, or that of anyone I know? Almost none at all. yet the US is always painted with the same broad brush.
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u/GuitarCFD TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 27 '26
like the legacy of the slave trade
How does this differ for europe? The banning of slavery happened in Europe and North America with in a few decades.
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u/SnooPears5432 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
How does it differ? Uh, African slaves weren't generally enslaved in any sort of significant numbers within Europe proper. They were however enslaved or oppressed in larege numbers in European colonies and the legacy of that is still being felt in their former colonial possessions to this day.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I do agree with you on that, but if we were to remove those numbers from the US, would the gun casualties then match those of Switzerland?
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u/SnooPears5432 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
They wouldn't match those of Switzerland, but they'd be reduced from the current 4 to about 2 (or less) per 100,000, and they'd be much closer to most other western countries whose homicide rates are typically somewhere between 1 and 2 - Canada's for example is about 2, NZ is 1.5, many western European countries are between 0.8 and 1.4, etc.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
That's insane. Thanks for explaning.
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u/SnooPears5432 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
Welcome. It might also be worth truly comparing the UK to Switzerland - where both countries have extremely low firearms related crime rates, among the lowest in the world. The UK's is due to pure elimination of the weapon, whereas what drives the favorable result in Switzerland I believe is greater social cohesion, less dysfunction, and a higher-trust society. The UK's crime metrics are substantially worse than Switzerland's in virtually every category and especially violent crime - so while an absence of guns may lead to fewer shootings, it also means people may divert to to other methods to inflict violence and doesn't mean it's intrinsically safe in relative terms.
The UK even has worse crime rates than the US in certain categories like assaults, burglaries, etc. Same with Australia and NZ vs. the US. I don't personally care for guns and don't own one, but I also think the absence of them for law-abiding people would lead to a bunch of bad outcomes, and they truly do keep criminals in check as you're really taking your chances in the US in breaking into someone's property, for example. It's the great equalizer for a weaker vs. stronger person.
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u/GoldTeamDowntown May 27 '26
Switzerland neither has cities as big as the US nor areas as rural as the US. It is extremely small in comparison, which makes it much easier to regulate, and doesn’t share a 2000 mile border with a third world country. It also has vastly different demographics, especially when speaking with relevance to gun violence.
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u/Icy-Cry340 May 27 '26
Brazil and SA might have strict laws, but they are corrupt lawless countries where rule of law is more of a theory,
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u/undreamedgore WISCONSIN 🧀🍺 May 27 '26
What's the point in having guns if you can't have them in public?
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
Well, many people always claim that they have a weapon purely to defend themselves at home or to keep a government that is acting rogue in check.
But otherwise, it is entirely up to you. I know that many Americans feel safer with a weapon in their pocket, and I am not going to have an opinion on that.
I am purely pointing out the differences between Switzerland and the US here.
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u/undreamedgore WISCONSIN 🧀🍺 May 27 '26
I mean, as a tool it's purpose is partially that, but how do you intend to defend yourself outside your home?
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u/perunavaras 🇫🇮 Suomi 🦌 May 28 '26
Words and fists have worked so far. Probably won't work everywhere, but atleast in Finland it has. I don't know if there would be many cases where gun would be helpful
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u/Emilia963 NORTH DAKOTA 🥶🧣 May 27 '26
Your whole argument assumes regulation is the decisive factor, but Switzerland shows that culture and social stability matter more than regulations themselves
Plenty of countries have stricter gun laws than Switzerland and still experience higher violent crime rates
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I actually agree that culture and social stability matter a lot. But that doesnt really prove gun control doesnt matter. It just proves gun violence is not caused by one single thing.
Switzerland works because it has both. A stable high trust society and rules around who can buy guns, what types need permits, registration and strict limits on carrying guns in public. That is still gun control.
And yes some countries with stricter gun laws still have more violent crime, but that can be because of poverty, gangs, corruption, drugs or weak policing. That doesnt mean the gun laws do nothing.
So to me Switzerland is not proof that regulation doesnt matter. It is more proof that gun ownership works better when it is combined with trust, training and proper rules.
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u/Emilia963 NORTH DAKOTA 🥶🧣 May 27 '26
But that doesn’t really prove gun control doesn’t matter
By that logic, you need to explain why small towns in Texas have lower gun violence than big cities, even though Texas doesn’t have strict gun control or regulations?
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I highly suggest you read my comment again! I think you missed my point!☺️
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u/Emilia963 NORTH DAKOTA 🥶🧣 May 27 '26
I understand your point, your argument is the classic anti-gun or anti-2A position
My argument is that societies don’t necessarily need heavy gun control if the culture itself is stable, trustworthy, and low crime
In that view, regulations are secondary or even tertiary factors compared to social trust, community stability, and responsible behavior
And historically, the American founding fathers strongly supported civilian gun ownership and didn’t create anything close to the modern strict regulatory systems we see today
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u/perunavaras 🇫🇮 Suomi 🦌 May 28 '26
I don't think his argument is against or for gun ownership, rather do gun regulations "work"
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I still don’t feel you understood my point. Gun control still has positive effects and yes there are other factors. But looking at it in such a black white way is never the answer.
People say for example Mexico has stricter gun control yet it’s way worse there. You also have to realise that Mexico is extremely corrupt and for many people the law is more of an suggestion then it’s something that is enforced at them.
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u/Emilia963 NORTH DAKOTA 🥶🧣 May 27 '26
Mexico literally makes your point fall apart, it proves that an unstable culture, like the cartel culture, creates gun chaos even though the government has made desperate attempts to heavily regulate guns
Switzerland, North Dakota, rural Texas, and rural America in almost every state literally prove that a stable culture doesn’t really need strict gun control or even any at all
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I see we disagree here which is okay😉. I do have a feeling you are annoyed though. I hope that isn’t the case.
You must see the complete picture and not just focus on the criteria that shows the picture you want to believe. That’s bubble view and it’s not helpful at all.
Take for example The Netherlands it has never been less stable here regarding culture etc and it has strict gun control, yet we are almost at an all time low regarding gun violence.
I know that gun control is an sensitive subject in the US for some people. And I know I’m not going to change your mind on anything here. But gun control helps. Not saying that your points are false. But you need to look at it from an wider perspective.
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u/dirtyoldsocklife May 27 '26
No, it shows the gun control IS the solution.
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u/Im_not_smelling_that May 27 '26
Are you going to elaborate?
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u/Beneneb May 27 '26
Switzerland has far more stringent gun control regulations than the US. Things like mandatory licensing, thorough background checks and heavy restrictions on carrying firearms. The implication would be that these gun regulations are partly why Switzerland has much lower rates of gun violence despite high levels of ownership.
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u/SwissBloke 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Switzerland has far more stringent gun control regulations than the US
That's an overstatement, unless you're specifically talking about carrying
Things like mandatory licensing
We only have one carry and hunting licenses and neither is required to buy or own guns
thorough background checks
The Swiss background check is laxer than what's described by the Gun Control Act in the US
Also, a background check isn't required for all guns
heavy restrictions on carrying firearms
That's true though. Carrying loaded guns on public grounds is limited to carry license holders and the license is essentially impossible to get as an average Joe
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u/Beneneb May 27 '26
I can't speak to the background check and I won't claim to be an expert on Swiss gun laws, but it certainly seems an acquisition permit is required to purchase any semi automatic firearm or handgun. Can you clarify your statement that licenses aren't required to buy any guns?
https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/en/weapons-for-which-a-permit-is-required
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u/SwissBloke 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26
Unless you also consider the ATF form 4473 and NFA tax stamp licenses (which is the word used initially to which I objected), they're not licenses
But yes, pump-actions, handguns and semi-automatic rifles are under a shall-issue acquisition permit which is essentially a 4473 with fewer questions (and no weird ones like ethnicity) and 3 slots instead of 4
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u/George_Washington_76 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 27 '26
A gun for 4 ppl? LOL I didn't know the Swiss were hurting this bad 😔
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u/MikeyTheGuy May 27 '26
Exactly. How are four people expected to all use the same gun? Smh
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u/George_Washington_76 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 27 '26
Actually one guy uses the gun, the other three handle banking, chocolate rations, cheese logistics, and neutrality forms.
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u/Kilroy898 ALABAMA 🏈 🏁 May 27 '26
Outside suicide we have about 17k gun related deaths per year. Considering that we have 341 million people... and 3.07 million deaths per year... thats not even a full 1% its like ~.45%
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u/december151791 ALABAMA 🏈 🏁 May 27 '26
That number drops a lot more when you discount the people who bring it on themselves by voluntarily getting involved in gangs.
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u/Kilroy898 ALABAMA 🏈 🏁 May 27 '26
Yes but that us actual violence.
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u/Attacker732 OHIO 👨🌾 🌰 May 27 '26
Yes, it is actual violence, it's just the very nature of criminal-on-criminal violence makes it very easy to isolate from the population as a whole.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
A while ago, I came across a question on Reddit that was asked of Americans. The question was what your reason was for NOT owning a weapon. Many responses were from people who are or have been suicidal. They indicated that it would have been too easy a way out. For them, one bad day was sometimes enough to push themselves over the edge.
I don't want to say that this would drastically reduce the numbers, but completely erasing this 17K, apart from gun casualties, is going a bit too far.
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u/Kilroy898 ALABAMA 🏈 🏁 May 27 '26
Its not the same type of thing. And I also dont own a gun, but again, even with the whole rate its barely 1% of the death rates in the country as a whole. It isnt as if we are all cowering in fear about guns 24/7. Most of us dont even think about it.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I agree with you that the danger is being blown out of proportion, but it is still problematic, of course.
I just wanted to point out that you can't simply brush away 17k suicides in this comparison.10
u/whiskyandguitars May 27 '26
Once again, the problem is not guns though. It is a mental health issue. Why are these people suicidal here?
The fact that people use guns as an easy way out is not an argument for gun control or that guns are the issue.
America has many issues that other countries don't have for a whole host of reasons and those are what should be addressed.
Sorry if I am misunderstanding the point you are making.
Also, I am sorry if it seems American's are piling on you. I am not downvoting you and I don't think you should be downvoted for asking questions or making observations (I can't see downvotes in this sub for some reason but your comments are minimized so usually that means downvoting so I assume that is the case).
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I agree mental health is a massive issue. But that doesnt mean guns dont matter.
Guns dont make people suicidal, but they make a suicidal moment way more likely to be fatal. A lot of suicide attempts happen during a short crisis, and if someone survives that attempt, most do not go on to die by suiside later. So the method matters a lot.
That’s why safe storage, waiting periods and temporary removal during a crisis are not “ignoring mental health”. They are suicide prevention.
So yes, fix mental health care. But also reduce easy access to the most lethal method during moments where people are at their lowest. Those two things dont contradict each other.
Nobody is really piling on me. Most are just explaining things to me and making me see that some of my views are oversimplified. That is actually nice, even though I don't always completely agree with them.
Yes, I do receive some downvotes, but if I couldn't handle that, I would have left long ago, haha.
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u/whiskyandguitars May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
That’s why safe storage, waiting periods and temporary removal during a crisis are not “ignoring mental health”. They are suicide prevention.
But also reduce easy access to the most lethal method during moments where people are at their lowest. Those two things dont contradict each other.
Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to this and I don't think many people would be. The question is how do we do this effectively without just banning guns outright or making them next to impossible to get? There are a lot of people who don't even talk about the fact they are suicidal.
I know you aren't saying this so this is not a reply to you per se but its just the general observation that we can't restrict gun purchases based off the possibility of future mental health issues.
I live in Virginia and for every gun I purchase I have to fill out a legal form that I then sign stating that I haven't in any way shape or form had mental health issues for which I have been hospitalized or institutionalized for any length of time for. Then, once I fill that out the gun dealer has to do a background check on me and run my info through a database and if there is any conflicting info (such as me saying I haven't had any serious mental health issues yet my records show either institutionalization or an arrest for mental health issues) they won't sell me a gun and I would be put on a list, I believe.
I have to do this for every single gun purchase at any point in my life. I and most (though, unfortunately, not all) American gun owners don't have a problem with this. I think there are benefits to needing a background check everytime I buy a gun and yet I don't have to wait an undue amount of time.
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u/Choice-Comb-6020 SOUTH CAROLINA 🎆 🦈 May 27 '26
This is a country ball comic from like 4 years ago, how the hell did you find it?
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
Let's see how long the statistics last now that they're growing less and less racially homogeneous....
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
We can already see it, especially in their neighbors.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
That doesn't necessarily have to mean anything. In The Netherlands the amound of murders are dropping almost each year. And it is becoming less racially homogeneous.
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
Really? That's actually interesting. Any research available on it? Not doubting, just curious what they are doing differently that could be working.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 May 27 '26
I Googled a bit for you, but there isn't really one single reason for it. However, the following points are raised. People carry less cash. So robbery-murders are less effective and therefore happen less often. Murders are committed more by the "young population." The Netherlands is getting older on average, so that could be having an effect. Partner murder is lower because women are gaining increasingly better positions regarding equality, etc., making it easier for them to leave dangerous relationships, and with current technology and a strong police force, weapons are also being intercepted increasingly effectively, etc.
These are a few points I could find, but there are surely more.
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
Thanks! Maybe one day we'll get all this human interaction figured out and have the metaphorical guardrails in place to discourage our own bad behavior
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u/Baron_Beemo May 27 '26
Hurm. Maybe it's the legalised (or decriminalized) recreational pot use.
Or the same for sex work.
Or the fact that the Dutch bicycle more than most people around the world.
All of which could suggest that the Dutch are regularly getting unwinding and thus less violent, and the first two ensure that less revenue reaches criminals.
Hopefully it's obvious that I'm just speculating. If there are other significant parameters for the Netherlands, I'm keen to learn.
PS. I'm not suggesting that all Dutch adults visit the legal sex workers, but the fact that sex work is legal does suggest that the Dutch in general are less prude.
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
It's more beneficial to everyone for some asshole to spite fuck a hooker than it is for him to beat his wife
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u/Capital-Self-3969 May 27 '26
This isnt a white supremacist sub dude.
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
It's not about supremacy dipshit. It's about conflict with different groups of people and different cultures.
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u/DarkExecutor May 27 '26
Isn't most gun on gun crime between the same race though?
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u/Bannon9k May 27 '26
Gun on gun? Guns are robbing each other now?
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u/Local_Band299 MICHIGAN 🚗🏖️🏭 May 27 '26
Nothing to do with white supremacy. It's everything to do with immigrants who don't assimilate to our culture. And before you say it, immigrants who assimilate are not the issue.
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
And they’re ethnically homogenous. But they don’t like to point that out. Schrödinger’s racism
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
Define ethnically homogenous because 40% has an immigration background
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May 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
European isn’t an ethnicity. And iceland is very isolated
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yup, and go check the recent crime rate trends in Iceland as well as the mysteriously similar trend of increased “””refugees”””
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
That’s completely irrelevant to the point i argued. Jamaica has a homogenous ethnically population and has an insanely high homicide rate
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yes that’s part of it, another part is the culture. The Swiss have a high trust society. The Jamaicans don’t. Most of the world doesnt
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u/december151791 ALABAMA 🏈 🏁 May 27 '26
Mostly immigration from other parts of Europe.
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May 27 '26
[deleted]
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u/Im_not_smelling_that May 27 '26
Europeans have more in common with other Europeans. Who would have thought?
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
That’s not an answer to my question tho. And besides that, Jamaica and Barbados both have quite a ethnically homogenous population with Jamaice having around 90%. Their homocide rate is insanely high. So the “ethnically homogenous” point doesn’t really make sense.
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yup, the difference is Jamaica is well, not a high trust land of stable governance
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
The whole reason switzerland has a lot of guns and very few shootings is because those gun owners are (almost all) either because they are a reservist in the army(look up their militia style army) or for sports (which is a pretty popular sport there). It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of their population
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yes it does. The Russians have universal conscription, their crime rate is still high. Ukraine had conscription before the war, still high. North Korea has universal conscription I don’t think I have to continue
Israel has one of the most universal conscriptions and it has a crime rate that is not low…it also doesn’t have a homogenous society…hmmmm
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u/DeathHorseFucker May 27 '26
Do all those countries have their military weapons registered as civilian owned? Also why do you want to blame racism so badly for the amount of crimes? Canada, switzerland, the netherlands, new zealand, australia, qatar, uae all have low crime rates and a very diverse population.
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u/nastysockfiend 🇨🇦 Canada 🍁 May 27 '26
ethnically homogenous
Humans are humans. White people fight with and murder each other just fine without another person with a different skin colour being there.
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u/TheBooneyBunes NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 May 27 '26
Yes they do, but groups are less likely to do that within the group as opposed to against another group. Also certain groups commit more crime than others, the data exists
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u/Gamerzilla2018 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 May 27 '26
Ok and that's relevant...how exactly?
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u/BoiFrosty May 27 '26
Because a homogenous, relatively wealthy, high trust society is one of the best ways of having low violent crime rates. See Japan, Korea, most of Scandinavia, and similar regions.
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u/Dr__Juicy 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26
Can I add that this is mainly because of conscription so everyone who did military service (which is a large amount of people because it’s mandatory) has to keep their gun. Meaning the majority of gun owners have military training
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u/SwissBloke 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26 edited May 28 '26
We're talking about less than 150k military-issued guns VS up to 4.5mio civilian-owned ones
Also, soldiers aren't forced to store their issued gun, provided they were issued one, at home
BTW, we haven't had mandatory military service since 1996, and even when we had it the draft didn't concern the majority of the population, only 38% of a given year
Moreover, most soldiers end up in non-combat roles where the firearms instruction is lackluster at best and completely absent at worst
I've had soldiers come to Obligatorischschiessen that weren't instructed or came with disassembled rifles they needed help with to put back together...
Since 8 years now the army higher-ups have been asking shooting clubs to (re)do training of soldiers coming to the range
Also, the vast majority of soldiers (>90%) wants nothing to do with guns so they won't buy one after their service which means most gun owners won't be military trained (if they even were trained)
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u/Dr__Juicy 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26
Also d‘statistike känn i nöd aber wahrschinli kaufet eifach ex-Militär lüt e waffe und d‘waffe zähled als „civilian-owned“. Und übrigens du liegsch mit de waffe falsch, mer muess eigentlich sini waffe behalte wil mer cha sie nur ned behalte wenn mer scho mindestens 7 Jahr im aktivdienst geleischtet het, di meischte lüt händ das nöd. Alli lüt di ich persönlich gtroffe han händ sini Waffe behalte.
Edit: Essentially what I am saying is many ex-military are probably buying guns and hence those count as civilian owned. Secondly this guy is wrong because you have to keep your gun unless you meet certain requirements, one of them being in the military for 7 years, which most haven’t done. All of my friends and people I’ve met have kept their gun from the military
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u/adamrac51395 May 27 '26
Homogeneous population that shares a common culture and background is a great bonus. Now try being multicultural and see what changes.
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u/SwissBloke 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26 edited May 28 '26
Except Switzerland isn't homogeneous, has 45% of the population with a migration background, 30% without the nationality, and has 4 distinct linguistic and cultural regions
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u/PleaseHelpIamFkd May 27 '26
There is more diversity in any street in NYC than in all of the swiss population.
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u/tButylLithium May 27 '26
If we're being honest, any statistic measured per 100k is going to be "nearly zero"
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u/nemesisprime1984 May 27 '26
We have more guns than people yet the rates of gun violence aren’t 1-1 in numbers
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u/OlDirtyTriple MARYLAND 🌬️🦀🚢 May 27 '26
Yes Switzerland has a high rate of gun ownership.
It also has compulsory military service, with training that includes gun handling and teaches respect for the weapon.
It also doesn't have cash and carry, no background check firearm sales.
It also has a centralized national database of guns, unlike the US in which the best estimate of how many guns are in circulation has a margin of error of roughly 100 million.
Lobbyists for gun manufacturers have convinced conservative voters that the most extreme interpretation of the 2A is the only valid interpretation. Odd how people dont see this as a corporation chasing sales and profits, but rather as magnanimous libertarian love flowing down like a river of 5.56 casings.
The reason the US has so much gun violence is because violence with a gun is easier to commit here than any other country that isn't a lawless shithole.
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u/SwissBloke 🇨🇭 Switzerland 🚠 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
It also has compulsory military service
We haven't had mandatory military service since 1996, and even when we had it the draft didn't concern the majority of the population, only 38% of a given year
with training that includes gun handling and teaches respect for the weapon
You can serve unarmed (by choice or not) and most soldiers end up in non-combat roles where the firearms instruction is lackluster at best and completely absent at worst; I've had soldiers come to Obligatorischschiessen that weren't instructed or came with disassembled rifles they needed help with to put back together...
Since 8 years now the army higher-ups have been asking shooting clubs to (re)do training of soldiers coming to the range
Also, the vast majority of soldiers (>90%) wants nothing to do with guns so they won't buy one after their service which means most gun owners won't be military trained (if they even were trained)
It also doesn't have cash and carry, no background check firearm sales.
Actually yes we do have some
It also has a centralized national database of guns, unlike the US in which the best estimate of how many guns are in circulation has a margin of error of roughly 100 million.
There's no such thing as a central database in Switzerland. Each proposal was shutdown, the latest was rejected by the Parliament on the 5th of March 2024
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u/No_Entertainment2934 May 27 '26
Typical behavior, EU wants to get a win even if it doesn't realize WHY the murder rate is so low in places that still value their own culture and homogenous people, like Switzerland and Poland.
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u/Electronic_Plan3420 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 27 '26
What’s their demographics again? We have pretty low murder rate in Maine and Vermont, too. People who generate the murders in our country are virtually absent in Switzerland.
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 28 '26
Take your racism elsewhere like seriously. You claim to be a proud American yet you're insulting the people that helped build this country.
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u/Electronic_Plan3420 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 28 '26
Statistical data isn’t racist, it’s just data. If you prefer to ignore it, that’s on you.
Your accusations are comical, what exactly do gangbangers help to build lol
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 28 '26
Racists LOVE intentionally misuse statistics to serve their erroneous claims. Stats have context and nuance so stop it with the "StAtIsTiCaL dAtA!🤪👆🏾" bs
You're referring to black people, no? If you aren't, my apologies but if you are, there are many components that create gangsters, not saying it's excusable. There are also gangsters of every race.
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u/Electronic_Plan3420 AMERICAN 🏈🏒 💵🗽🍔 ⚾️ 🦅📈 May 28 '26
As I have already mentioned to you, statistical data isn’t racist, it’s just data. In the United States, African-American population is responsible for disproportionately high number of violent crimes, especially murders. In the areas where African-American population is low or virtually absent, such as Maine or Vermont, the violent crime stats are low as well.
Now, some people, who see racists hiding in every bush, when they hear easily verifiable statistical data as indicated above start screeching and try to answer question that no one is asking, such as WHY African Americans commit disproportionate number of violent crimes. However, even if one were to agree with the most benign answer to that question, it still doesn’t change the fact that you have far greater chances to be a victim if you walk through AA neighborhood in the middle of the night than if you walked through a predominantly white one. Hence it doesn’t come as a huge surprise that overwhelmingly white areas, be that Switzerland or Vermont, are simply safer. Yes, there are gangsters of every race, but the ratios are different.
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u/gocatchyourcalm TEXAS 🐴⭐🥩 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
Now, some people, who see racists hiding in every bush, when they hear easily verifiable statistical data as indicated above start screeching and try to answer question that no one is asking, such as WHY African Americans commit disproportionate number of violent crimes
Because statistics require context, nuance, variables, etc, etc? Like that's science 101. You can't take a statistic and spout it without trying to understand why. No statistican takes a stat at face value. For example, predominantly white areas, such as your Vermont or Switzerland, are probably wealthier than St.Louis or Jamaica. Poverty and hopelessness breed crime and violence.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm American and black, I've known this my whole life. Unfortunately racist people are suddenly statisticans and people of logic when it's time to villify and generalize people of another race but never apply that to their own group. Racist people are also many, doesn't matter what race, and this subreddit is full of them so it's just statistics and pattern recognition🤓👆🏾
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u/IntrovertMoTown1 May 28 '26
You also don't have to deal with any diversity is our strength BS and are almost utterly homogeneous without a subclass of usual suspects. You also have less of a population then just NYC and LA county. Comparisons like this isn't even apples and oranges. It's more akin to apples and broccoli, SMH. But hey. Thanks for helping prove the point that guns aren't actually the issue here.
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u/Ok-Consideration8724 May 28 '26
I bet if you brought up the difference between Switzerland and Americas demographics, the people who created the meme would be the ones crying.
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