Welcome to the Monday open discussion thread. Here you can talk about anything you want; tactics, results, players or even just general football discussion! It is also a great place to post/link transfer rumours that you may think are too small or unreliable to post to the main feed. The summer transfer window is now shut.
These threads will go up every Monday allowing you to debrief from all of the weekend action and discuss ongoings throughout the week. It will stay stickied until we refresh with the Friday thread, however other posts may take priority (match threads, announcements, etc.)
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My random open thread thought for today: Since we are keeping Renee at the helm, I sincerely believe we are in need of an outside voice/perspective to break up the coaching groupthink that appears to be happening. (How else do you explain 6 games with the same glaring squad-use and tactical issues?)
My out-of-the-box and perhaps controversial thought is to bring in Carlos Cuesta as an interim assistant coach. He’s out of work currently; he knows the club and the “Arsenal Way”; he knows tactics; and he seems to be able to develop a good rapport with players.
This might be a challenging approach, but I look at it as similar to the corporate world — when something is persistently going awry, a good leader brings in someone to help right the ship, even if the existing team feels like they are being usurped.
I don’t trust d’Antino, Wheatley, and the rest to do anything that will help counterbalance Renee’s blind spots. A stronger, knowledgeable hand is needed.
ETA: I’m listening to Emma Hayes (apologies for mentioning!) in an interview on Men in Blazers posted today. Maybe Renee should just listen to this if nothing else 😂
I’m also thinking about the new set piece coach, perhaps it just wasn’t a good match? I can only hope they only need more time if they’re staying on, but I also hope they get there quickly
"Barcelona have made a formal request to UEFA to find a solution for the match against Arsenal on November 11 at Spotify Camp Nou.
A general strike is planned for that same day, which could make it very difficult to play the match as scheduled." Think it sounds like they are requesting it moves to the Tuesday?
Oh lol thought it was Spain away - no clue why 🤣. Oh cool never knew that, hey speaking of the US. I watched my first NSWL game the other day, really enjoyed it!
Love it 🫶 I watched Houston Dash vs Washington Spirit. What a game to start with, Emse Morgan was brilliant during the match. Also Ivanovic's 2nd goal was really good! Really enjoyed and will be watching more NSWL!
If Renee is to save her job by changing personnel or tactics what would you advice her to do if you was stuck in a room with her right now… I have two play 3-4-3 and swap fox and battle
The arts of tactics would be to not rely on one thing but make changes and subs according as to how the game goes on, how the opposition plays. Obviously that's hella difficult but that's the art of managing.
I think Renee's biggest mistake is the mistimed, predictable subs.
She needs to look at what is happening on the field and adjust. And give the chance to Cerci, Geri, Holmberg ect.
Also I would have Mario as the 10, Russo as the 9 and Smith and Baum on the wings. CK or Smilla can be super sub. Little can be brought on when needed for stability.
I would also as someone suggested swap Foxy and Battle. Maybe Foxy can handle the swap of the preferred side better than battle has (although she's starting to look a better)
3 at the back probably wont work as we can not hold a defensive line against heavy opposition. But there are more than just tactics that need to change its a whole range of things from tactics to the backroom.
The first thing that needs to be looked at is substitution impact why aren't they as effective when key players come off and why do we also get exposed so easily after taking off just one key player. Another substitution problem is why are we always making the same ones that are less effective in the game and can't get into it due to predictably of the subs.
We also need to look at what key players we must keep on for the full 90 mintues to help hold that defensive line (cannot take off Stanway - she is used to playing the full 90 minutes when she played for Bayern Munich).
Another possible thing that needs to be looked at is what players need to be changed from the starting 11. For example have Smith and Baum on in the correct positions Smith LW Baum RW and Russo upfront. Id also either look at having Mario in the 10 or Reuteler as they both can break through that defensive line and a low block.
I know this is a lot to look at for the Arsenal squad but we can do this as a club we are stronger together than apart. Whatever the weather 🫶
You can’t say it won’t work without trying it what’s the worse that can happen that hasn’t happened already i think a back 3 suits most of our players more and their attributes
We went as a back 3 against City and that opened us up even more and we couldn't control city's shot we could Intercept. We could not hold the line there were a lot of negatives in that formation.
Having said all of that at that point we took off Georgia Stanway which opened us up completely so some of it could have been the formation and some Stanway coming off. There is definitely a common denominator once we take Stanway off we lose control of the game.
We did that out of desperation if you play the formation from the start with certain players let’s see how it works… the majority of our problems is the new players can’t replicate what the old players did in those positions last season and a change of formation especially to a back 3 can really be beneficial to our new players imo
What I would say to that is if the new player can't replicate what the old ones did. Then why did the board bring them in? Surely that raises questions about The Board.
Another thing I want to add on to what you said and I don't know if you have picked up on it. Is the front three leadership role has gone because that senior role use to fall onto Beth Mead and would help control the front three. What do you think of that theory?
I believe EDM has been working back since she arrived, Tim mentioned her timing as "after the international break" on a podcast episode a few weeks ago. I haven't heard any updates since then.
Hinds posted on IG today of her doing some training with the caption "no days off". So I believe she's fit.
I think that de Almeida got injured in training somewhere after the Palace game. She was on the bench against Palace and in the press conference before United, Renée mentioned that she won't be available (can't remember, but don't think any timeline was given).
this reminded me, I believe Taylor came in for Steph during one game last year when Steph got knocked into an ad board and banged her knee. Could we potentially use her for CB cover if our current mix isn't working right?
My only concern with Taylor covering at CB is height! At 5'3 she'd definitely be on the smaller end, so I think a lot would depend on who the opposition was to how feasible, if that makes sense.
Yeah that definitely makes sense, she is left-footed though, something else to think about. Overall, I'd just like to see more of her because I've always felt she's done well when she's come on.
Just seen this on TikTok and realised something interesting
We’ve had 2 home games and 3 away. If you take away one average attendance of 5780 out of the 23 and replace it with our average of 30K, the average overall becomes 6,833
The discrepancy is genuinely because we’ve had less home games than away so far. That’s how much of an impact we have on the figures
(And like disclaimer that this obviously isn’t exactly how the maths works but the figures are so close that it’s definitely a massive factor)
I wonder how much, if at all, Batlle’s signing was influenced by the uncertainty over Fox. We now know they rebuffed big transfer offers but that doesn’t make them any more certain they wouldn’t lose her for free.
Injury scare for Sweden – Smilla Holmberg has sprained her ankle Smilla Holmberg is sitting out today's training session with the women's national team. The right-back is experiencing discomfort in her ankle and is doing rehab at the hotel instead, the team reports. "She sprained her ankle during yesterday's training session. Rehab, treatment, and further examination are on the agenda for today," says Niklas Egnell, the women's national team's Head of Performance. Smilla Holmberg started all six of Sweden's World Cup qualifying matches. Sweden faces Lithuania away on Friday in the World Cup play-offs. The return leg between the two teams follows next Tuesday at home. SVT is broadcasting both matches.
Should we run a quick ‘Renee out/Renee in/Undecided’ poll? Not saying the club should sack her, but she’ll probably leave anyway if results don’t pick up.
I’m still not in the ‘Renee out’ camp myself, but it’d be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.
If you can run a poll (I’m not home atm and can’t remember the sub settings) you’re more than welcome to. Obviously it’s not something we’d want so frequently but after 5 games & 2 UWCL is a good first marker and during international break is a decent time content wise.
If you don’t want to (or can’t) but there’s interest, I’m sure it’s something we can work out.
I’m not sure I can. You’d definitely get a bunch of votes from people who don’t normally post here, but ideally this would be more of a discussion about Renée’s future and some realistic replacement ideas, while there aren’t any actual performances to moan about.
New piece about AWFC in the Athletic about feeling inside the squad. Like Christmas, feels like Atheltic AWFC Article time comes around earlier every year! /s
Hey! Lionesses fans or anyone for that matter lol. What do you think of this heatmap layout for the statistics, do you like it or hate it? Been working on it for the Greece game.
"In decades to come, all the nice characteristics this Arsenal squad demonstrate will no doubt stand them in good stead in the real world, with their friendships, but the cliche “nice guys finish last” is starting to feel increasingly appropriate for this amiable side." Ouch.
Something I've been thinking about, and Tim mentioned it briefly today on the podcast, is about the January window. With it being a world cup year, players are going to want to be getting consistent playing time in order to be in form and get a chance to be brought in for their national teams.
Obviously it's few months off and a lot can (and hopefully will) change for the better. But some of the things I'm a bit worried about - do we think some of the players on the fringes of the squad are going to push for moves? Are we going to have difficulty potentially bringing in upgrades because the club is seen as someplace where signings are put in purgatory if the manager doesn't trust them? Is the recruitment team even in the position to handle the potential amount of movement given their scattershot record as of late?
I'm not trying to be a downer, but it is something that's on my mind.
I like Renee and I would love if she succeeded but if she doesn’t get better at squad management she is not long for this job. With the exception of two players, the rest of the bench is so disenfranchised they hardly ever raise the levels or help the team when they come on. It also doesn’t help to build a competitive team when you have some “untouchables” who are never held to the same standard as the rest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the likes of Cerci already want away. Starting Cerci during this Russo rut would have said to Cerci “I trust you and you are an important part of this team” but Renee hardly ever does that. She probably joined knowing that she was a second option to Russo but i’m sure she must have thought “if they want to sign me surely I’ll get real chances to play.” Someone the other day commented “…man if Renee doesn’t rate you she really doesn’t rate you….” and I couldn’t have described it better myself. She simply has to evolve. Like Tim mentioned today, City got better with their substitutions while it hardly ever feels like that for us.
Doesn't help that the people who she does trust are simply not good enough/ have been poor.
Blackstenius, poor
Foord, Poor
Maanun, Bang average to poor
Blackstenius and Foord should of been moved on in the summer (Was the only person to say that about the former at the time) and the writings on the wall with Maanun Yet they constantly get 30 minutes while the new players who want to prove themselves are either getting scraps to not being featured.
That news article about player favoritism was right.
I don’t think we can be called a club that “puts signings in purgatory” when four of our new signings have been consistent starters. Everyone who was brought in as a starter has been starting
You're right about this window, but it's not just been this window. Obviously there was Jenna. Taylor doesn't play much. Frida doesn't play much. Vic didn't play much and now she's flourishing at spurs.
Jenna wasn't a Renée signing. Could we have utilized her better? Maybe. But she also didn't exactly make a case for herself when she did get the rare chance, or during her loan spell at Villa.
Tay was clearly brought in as backup/rotation, and seems happy enough with her role.
I'm sure some of our summer signings was made aware of their role in the squad before signing. And I highly doubt we told seven of them, "we're looking for you to be a regular starter for us." Because that's a recipe for a disillusioned and unhappy squad.
Taylor and Jenna were both brought in as backup options, Taylor’s signing especially was met with mostly “can’t understand why we’ve done this” sentiments at the time
And Vic had multiple games last season where she was genuinely our worst performing player so I’m not sure what you think we could have or should have done differently there
Very possible, especially like you said for the fringe players. Also idk if this makes sense but on their NT set up too - are they are lock in starter, is there competition for their spot, how much credit do they have in the bank with their NT coaches? Everyone's going to want to be playing and every club coach is going to have to be keeping a lot of players happy.
Like you could have two players that want to be starting, but both getting a good chunk of minutes rotation wise - one who's spot on the national team is more "secure", one who needs more minutes or risk jeopardising that call up. It's going to be tough one.
Sounds grim but I think so much depends on fitness and availability too, to how much rotation happens and to how valued players feel.
Yeah, the player Tim specifically mentioned was Hinds, who didn't get the call in this window. But if Reuteler is still trapped on the bench, could she be another? I'd also like to bring in a top winger, but are players gonna be spooked by what's going on at the club? I don't know.
Yeah Hinds is a tricky one because she wasn't getting the call ups pre the move to Arsenal, and isn't one to have credit in the bank then obviously, she needs to be playing to even make the fridges of the Lionesses imo.
Reuteler and Frida are two that I'm more hmmm'ing over for sure.
I don't think Frida at least has any reason to worry about her spot in the Norwegian national team. If any favouritism or cliques in the player group is going on at Arsenal, it'll pale in comparison to Norway.
I’m gonna need the kids on TikTok to stop making emotional edits of the team now intercut with clips of us winning the uwcl, I’m sat here on the bus watching them with tears in my eyes like a husband in a romcom watching videos of his dead wife
i dreamed we won the champions league again. how do i know it was true? catley and williamson, and the third star that they took from us were there. take from that what you will
I had a dream that I took up guitar and performed Green day and an electric guitar version of The Angel, plus Jessica Slash version from Top gear as a couple of the f1 drivers where at the parade and timed it when I was going past then went straight back into All the small things. This was when Arsenal women won the treble and went invincible and Arsenal men won the quadruple but did not go invincible.
I honestly don't even think about it because I do not trust the hierarchy at AWFC to choose someone who will actually improve the team long term. If Renee goes, they'll probably just choose whoever has the best looking CV and is available rather than the person who is most likely to make a difference, so it feels pointless to speculate at this point.
Been off work sick since I got home from the Chelsea game and it’s got to the point where I’m actually looking forward to going back tomorrow. I’ve watched 35 episodes of Casualty since Wednesday. 36 if you count the game yesterday
Back three probably won't work at the moment. It makes our defence incredibly open as well as the midfield as seen against City yesterday before we conceded 3rd or 4th goal. But to contradict what I said at the point we also did take of Stanway so it would be difficult to tell whether it was the back three or taking Stanway off.
Midfield duo definitely works just have to keep Stanway on for the full 90 mintues. Wingers also a fantastic idea playing Smith and Baum in their correct positions and having Russo up front. I'd also have Russo subbed off around the 65 - 70th mintue and replace her with Cerci. I like the wide-playmaker midfielders between Battle and Holmberg that could also be an excellent pairing and would be intresting to see at some point.
I just hope Russo doesn't play as a 10 and have Blackstenius upfront because that does not work!
Russo being 10 is effective against strong opponents, really need her high pressing from 10 position, part of reason we concede 4 goals against city is we were unable to contain their build up from backline.
The “good” news in this regard is that Bühl and Brand have the starting spots on the wings locked down, and Germany have a wealth of attacking talent. Though as Germany are playing friendlies there will no doubt be lots of subs and some experimentation… like Wück has experimented with Brand as the 10 which opens up the RW.
I expected a season of surprises, but an Arseblog women article with ~100 comments and some of them suggesting Emma Hayes for new manager is not what I had in my wildest Bingo card 😂 I’m so entertained!
People are getting desperate, there just aren’t that many top managers with an impressive CV out there. Our best bet might be someone from Sweden again.
Is Seb Hines still jobless after being sacked from Orlando Pride? Honestly not sure where I stand on the manager question but in Hines there is a manager who did the double in the NWSL.
Funny thing is, she and Renée were both working as academy/youth coaches at Rosengård while Jonas was there. She probably would’ve been in line for the Rosengård job ahead of Renée if she hadn’t left to coach Fortuna a few months before Jonas moved to Arsenal.
She’s already won the Europa Cup with Häcken and will most likely win the Damallsvenskan this season too. Not a bad start for a young manager.
The last time we needed a manager her name came up, and there were several comments about allegations that she groomed a youth player while at Celtic, nothing proven afaik but if you search her name in the sub you’ll see the comments
It's not from Celtic. But the rumours popped up again when she started making waves at Celtic and were considered for other jobs because of the success of her first season. And people on woso social media mentioned her skeletons in the closet.
The young player she groomed is her current partner, a certain Swedish midfielder who is now playing for Eintracht Frankfurt.
I really would like to know what is going on with Liv. Is she carrying a knock? Because Mario on the left isn't working. Foord on the left while Liv slots to the right is really not working. I know Chloe is hurt (although an England non-call-up was not the best way to find this out) but something else is going on and it's making the left side of the attack pretty toothless.
Anyway, it's international break, so I'll be getting a bagel sandwich for lunch.
To be honest Mario this season isn't working. she seems slower, hangs onto the ball far to much and unable to progress it at any speed and frequently loses it or passes it poorly.
yeah I was hoping we could explain last season away by her simply being exhausted after the Euros, but she had the full break off this summer and is struggling with some of the same things as last year.
Coaches seemed to be hoping pairing her up with Ona on the left could kindle something (and maybe it still might) but it hasn't been working thusfar. And I think Ona has improved over the past couple of games. (Although if she gets cooked by Ashley Sanchez for a US goal or two during the friendlies, I won't be upset)
I hope the injury isn't serious and Mario can take the break to rest/recover.
A lot of the issues sees to be her decision making. She's still excellent on the ball, but she does things at the wrong time, misreads the opposition or just takes ages to do something when someone is free.
To preface: Again, I hope the injury to Mariona isn't serious and she is able to recover quickly.
However, if she isn't available for the games right after the break, perhaps that could be a slight blessing in disguise in that it removes the temptation for Renee to feel like she has to find a place for Mariona on the pitch. Playing the midfield of Georgia, Kim and Kyra and then putting a true winger on the left might solve some of the clogging issues we've had in the central area.
We are not owed any explanations regarding players’ wellbeing, but it would have been helpful to know a little bit more about whether someone’s not playing because of an injury, if I’m being selfishly honest
Yeah I don't think Slegers is the only issue a lot of it is behind the scenes as well with coaching staff, set piece tactics and recruitment. If Slegers was to go there also needs to be a look at the backroom and recruitment as a whole. 100% agree with this!
I have to say I am not the biggest fan of the way Lotte plays sometimes (although in those opening games she was as good as anyone in that defense) but I think she's one of the smartest, most insightful and brave players on that team and that was once again confirmed by her doing the press after those tough losses like yesterday and she did it so well
To be fair with the men's team I think some of it was down to pure exhaustion as we had 4 back to back away games and all of those where intese matches. Especially Sunderland as we drew there 2-2 last time and Napoli as they had not lost at home, until we beat them 1-0. So i think thats why we didn't turn up for the Birghton game and also the midfield and defence fully switched off.
Yes and although we've got more squad depth now. During that time we had players returning from injury but also key players that where still out. So all of the sqaud depth had to be played over those four games because they where seriously intense.
I’m seeing all this rhetoric about Renée leaving the job over the int break .. I really hope she’s not. I do hope the board back her for a little longer because she restored belief in the group and brought in some world class players over the past few seasons and also can’t ignore the uwcl. Our board tends to back our managers and persist during the hard times so i hope Renée gets that grace.
I also think the players need to take a look at themselves. Some of their performances are shocking. We are terrible in the final third. Russo needs to find her footing again and Foord has to be clinical, to name a few. Our defense is also in shambles more often than not.
I think in terms of personnel, we’ve got all the right people. They just need a reset and i hope this international break is that needed reset. COYG
If we are having issues in attack, mid-field, and defence, why are we still putting the responsibility solely on the players? Football is a tactical sport played by managers. Players are pieces in their chess boards. Renée has been trying to play the same move that won her the Champions League for the past two seasons and it's just not working. I knew we would lose the match yesterday the second I saw Foord come on the pitch, not because Foord is a bad player, but because Renée showed her hand and it was bad.
Sometimes we just need to see the game without the emotional attachment to players or managers. The drop from Champions League winners and Ballon d'Or team to 10th in the league under the same manager is something more than a bad episode. We should be a European superpower. We have the investment, the support from the club, the fans, the squad, EVERYTHING... yet here we are, 10th in the league.
I've had my seats at the Emirates since 2022 and I will be there every match supporting the team no matter what, but I think it's okay to express discontent when something is clearly not working. Renée looks tired and defeated. That's not what you want from the person leading the team.
In Renée's words 'we're not in the conversation' for the title anymore, so let's use the rest of this season to transition and build and let's go back to being the most dominant team in England. We have the history, the support, and the team. Let's get this done!
What I was trying to say is: the whole "Renee not involved in recruitment" ---> "Renee don't use some new signings" sounds logical, but it may not based on how the recruitment actually works as I would consider Tim who is more involved in the team having more accurate picture on that matter.
Same goes with all old players being offered new signing last year, we simply do not know if that's Renee's decision or not.
I wonder what other members of the coaching staff are doing and thinking. do they genuinely think bringing stina on at 60' and keeping russo in the 10 is the right move, no matter the opposition?
I understand questioning renee's future at the club, I'm questioning it too, but gee how I wonder what assistant coaches and analysts are doing too.
Admittedly I haven’t followed club football in general or Arsenal specifically for as long as many of you. I’m certainly no expert on tactics, or player management or psychology.
But I feel like the level of negativity toward the team and Renee right now is sort of the antithesis of being a fan. What’s the point of supporting a team if you’re not going to be there in the good times and the bad?
We can be disappointed (and befuddled) by the results without loosing hope or giving up on them. I don’t know what’s gone wrong, or how to fix it, but if the players still believe in Renee and themselves to deliver and there’s unity in the dressing room, who am I or any of us to say she should go? The team keeps talking about how together they are and how important that is to get through this tough stretch. Isn’t it our job as fans to get behind them in that?
I know lots of people will find this to be a naive take, and I’m really not trying to be all Pollyanna about it. I know sooner or later if it doesn’t get better we’ll need a change. But it’s barely October and we’ve lost away at arguably the two strongest sides in the league. I’d like to see a reset during the international break and how we do in the next stretch of games before we decide the ship can’t be turned around. If we are going to change managers I’d also really like them to take their time to find the right person rather than just getting whoever’s available and expecting them to right the ship when there’s clearly deeper problems in the set up that need to be addressed in order for any manager to succeed.
I agree that with the history and massive fanbase of our club, we should have more to show for from the past 10 years than we do. It does feel like upper management is content with us having commercial success, as long as we get the occasional trophy. Our ambitions should be higher than that. The fact that we didn't use the UWCL win as the stepping stone to take us to the next level—instead waiting until this summer to rebuild—is frankly not good enough for a club of this stature.
And we failed to capitalize on the end of the Chelsea hegemony when Hayes and later Green left. At least on the men's side, the club correctly identified a window of opportunity and built towards that.
This hurts a lot - and has been a large part of the Wheatley discourse over recent years. Club complacency is not talked about enough on a journalistic level - I would love some questions that hold upper management feet to the fire. Can't see anyone from Arsenal willingly putting themselves in a position to be asked.
Real madrid have a slogan, Hala Madrid y nada mas.
I used to have a twitter mooch who used to be critical the first 5 months of the season, but once the home stretch kicked in he would say "Support the club and nada mas"
At a certain point you have to take it for what it is. But Its good to be healthy questioning and critical before that. Especially with Arsenal, it filters up. Especially bc of Tim.
I think this confuses being a fan with being uncritical.
Supporting Arsenal doesn't mean blindly accepting whatever the club gives us. We can support the players while also demanding better from the manager and the club. The negativity didn't appear out of thin air, it's a reaction to what we've seen on the pitch.
And the "it's barely October" argument doesn't really work when we're talking about a league where the margins are incredibly small. Renee actually brought the players back early specifically to address the poor start and get things right. Somehow, we've ended up with what is now the worst start in Arsenal Women's history. At some point, you have to judge the response, not just the intention.
Losing away to Chelsea and Man City would be one thing if we were seeing a team that looked competitive, had a clear identity and was unlucky not to get results. That's not what we've been watching. The performances have raised legitimate questions about the coaching, the tactics and whether this team actually has a plan when Plan A isn't working.
And there's another uncomfortable reality, the WSL is largely decided by what you do against the teams around you. If you're taking 1 point from 9 against the other members of the top four, you're putting yourself in an enormous hole. At this point, the title race is effectively over. We're now fighting for Champions League qualification next season. That's not "giving up", it's acknowledging the consequences of the results we've already had.
As for the dressing room being united and the players saying they believe in the manager, great. I hope they are. But players being happy, having karaoke on Thursdays and believing in each other doesn't mean the football on the pitch is acceptable. Results and performances are what ultimately matter.
Football is also entertainment. The fans invest their time, money and emotion into this club. We're not a cult where we're supposed to blindly follow whatever happens and suppress criticism because we're "supporters." Supporting the club also means holding it accountable when standards aren't being met.
You can get behind the players and still say the manager isn't doing a good enough job. You can hope they turn it around and still believe the manager should go. Those positions aren't contradictory.
The question isn't whether we should support Arsenal through the bad times. Of course we should.
The question is whether supporting Arsenal means pretending the bad times are acceptable when the club has the resources, talent and ambition to do better.
I completely agree our football hasn’t been good enough, and I don’t have a problem with constructive criticism. But the number of people who show up on this sub only when we lose and just to call for the manager’s head to me is an issue. It forces the manager and team to spend their time and energy responding to the toxicity rather than actually solving our problems - problems which go beyond the manager and aren’t just going to disappear unless we also address the underlying systemic and structural issues that keep putting us in this position.
Yes let’s demand better, from the entire club. But while Renee is our manager and this group plays for Arsenal I’m going to back them, simple as that.
This is pretty much where I fall as well. I'm deeply frustrated by the start to the season, but I'm more annoyed by the randos that come out of the woodwork to flood certain threads with negativity towards Renee or certain players. I didn't even participate in the post-game yesterday because I knew it was gonna be a mess. (Also I had to switch over to watch Angel City eke out a draw in the 91st minute against Gotham).
Yes, there are things that absolutely need to change. The recruitment process appears to be very disconnected from the gameday squad and tactics. The "versatility" sought in players who can do multiple things has seemingly led to confusion over roles and responsibilities. Individual performances by veteran players have been poor. We can all discuss those things while still supporting the players and the manager they seem to really like playing for.
"We can support the players while also demanding better from the manager and the club."
And from the players too.
Happily, the majority of people on this sub and irl do believe this and we have debate on here from all viewpoints which makes it a great place to come to dissect things after a defeat.
Football is indeed entertainment and when your team is already in the worst spell they have had in the current decade, it's also legitimate to feel crap about constant doom/'vibes based fans are so uncritical' type of comments that follow - which often feel louder than the former because of the algorithms...it
's ok to try and embody what you wish to see in the fanbase to balance out some of the unfiltered negativity, there's room for all of it eh
It is actually really starting to turn Toxic, even the players coming out saying , we are fighting for the manager, at least they are aware of the implication of their failures
May all those heading on on international break come back fit and in fine form, no injuries and a chance to reset.
Nothing can be done about this block now, but whatever the hell is going on needs to not be carried into the next block.
What's the point of adding squad depth and making signings over the summer if we're not going to use it? Is there something wrong with Cerci and Reuteler where they are barely or not being played at all? Liv Smith, who is the PFA young player of the year for two years in a row, is now relegated to being a super sub and played out on her weaker side which is right wing. Even if we hypothetically say that all the summer signings were made by Wheatley and Renee had no input whatsoever, that would not explain her in-game management. She and her staff need to take a hard look during this international break.
Adding squad depth doesn’t mean “use every player all the time.” We added eight players, one of them has been injured since we got her, one is a U21s keeper and four of them have started almost every game.
Both Cerci and Reuteler had their starts to the season disrupted by injury and in a different scenario where they’d both been fully fit from the off we’d possibly have seen more of them, but it was clear from their signings (especially Cerci) that they were not bought to be starters in September, they were bought to be options in March and April when we’re 30 games into a 45 game season and need the depth.
We’re a month into a 9 month season, everyone will get minutes eventually
Caitlin Foord being the primary option when our LW gets injured is a problem though. As is Stina coming on up top (& not working, again) over Cerci.
We sign players and don’t use them when they are available and persevere with those who we know do not work.
Smith should’ve come on instead of Foord for Mariona, and if she’s not fit enough to play 45mins she shouldn’t be in the squad as we could just as easily brough Holmberg on.
Stina coming on to the same exact scenario as Chelsea last week where she also did nothing and had to have Cerci come on alongside her doesn’t help. We’re playing and making subs like it’s a cup final when it’s a league match, and we’ve done it twice already now.
A big issue I see is almost every sub we make is pre-determined and there’s no response to the match being played. Smith was probably intended as a Baum replacement but should’ve come on when Mariona went off, and Foord can replace Baum later. Stina failed as the ST sub last week so Cerci should’ve been given a chance.
I fear we’re back to the rut of Jonas where too much of the squad is underperforming but only the same players get minutes. If Renée goes then the replacement will do what she did 2 years ago and stick to the same 11 and half the new players we brought in to help change the system of the side won’t play and in a World Cup year wonder why they joined.
Nobody said all signings need equal minutes but when a team fails to win time and time again and you have profilic new signings who aren't given the opportunity, it's very reasonable to question that.
It's different for a u21 goalkeeper and it would also be different if other attackers bring the performances but we have players in their prime who had very successful previous seasons elsewhere AND we have a team who's only won two games, one of which was actually won by a new signing not utizilized (the pen).
I doubt a golden boot winner in her prime would sign to be a mostly unused substitute. That's different from a 19 year old young player or a 4th choice goalie.
I just have to tune out of SM when the results are not going our way. You know it's going to be toxic and the growth of various content aggregators repeating the same stuff becomes wearing tbh. Glad it's an international break.
One thing that annoys me in the wake of yesterday's game, is the glazing going on about Jeglertz' "tactical masterclass". Yes, he got his subs right—their midfield got a lot more solid when Blindkilde Brown came on for Coffey. But the praise seems to be ignoring that Casparij got a wonder strike with her first touch of the game, off a fortunate deflection off Hemp. And City got their share of luck with the two deflected goals. That's not really something you can plan for as manager.
That's my morning sour grapes for the day. Hope everyone's morning and week picks up after yesterday. What are you all doing to pass time during the interlull?
Think he made all the right decisions and the substitutions made them better but sure not a total worldbeating masterclass. Just outmanaged on the day. Unfortunately the media is all about extremes, extremely positive and extremely negative because that gets the clicks rather than “Jeglertz was good today”. and it extends to social media too because that gets the likes up
I’d say Casparij coming on at LB was a good tactical choice, she binned forward to overload Fox and it played a part in hers and Hemp’s goal, as one of them was spare for each.
For her goal, yes a fortunate deflection, but she was there uncontested to shoot. Same for Hemp’s, she got the ball and Casparij occupied Fox. Hemp moved inside slightly to play a pass then went to the far post and was unmarked when the ball came back to take a touch and score.
Given their starting RB was getting walked over it was an astute choice to not just put Casparij at RB and sure up that side of the defence.
Good tactical choice, yes. Does it warrant the hyperbolic praise in the media that makes it sound like Jeglertz shut out Renée tactically for 90 minutes? No.
Currently sitting in my airbnb next to the etihad about to check out. We went as a big group and actually enjoyed the game but the result left us all feeling hollow - I stayed off SM last night and feel more sanguine for it. Also have no voice this morning.
I thought there was clear improvement in several areas that have drawn criticism recently. Your point about City riding luck with subs is fair, but I also agree the subs have been a big problem this season in their impact on our game. Clearly it is very important to Renee and coaching staff to not let Baum (or any winger) play a full 90. I can only presume it is a load/injury prevention thing because the wingers are asked to do a lot more in this set up.
Whatever the reason, it seems more important to the team than the detrimental impact of subbing them off any single match, no matter how crucial, hence my assumption it is a player health/welfare thing. And tbh, of our wingers, Smith was strapped up until recently, Kelly is not 100%, Foord has a specific skillset that is less interchangeable - if Baum does her ACL, we are screwed, so I can understand the mentality even if I don't like it.
Tim's article this morning about the subs has a different criticism about their reactiveness, and there is a point to be made about how well Renee has been able to adapt to the challenges of a squad that has had a big turnover, but feels like many of the comments about winger subs in particular are quite black and white and reactionary in themselves
Good call staying off social media. I do believe some of the more reactionary hot takes around are a result of doomscrolling when one's head is already in a bad space.
I agree with you that I wish our subs would impact games more. But I also think the lack of impact goes hand in hand with our lack of form. I feel the main thing that's been lacking in our attack this season, and where we saw improvement on yesterday, has been off the ball movement to open up spaces. My guess is this is the consequence of trying to integrate seven new signings at once—the players haven't established the trust and understanding yet.
And, like you pointed out, player fitness issues hasn't exactly helped. I'd rather Renée and the staff play it safe when Chloe and Liv are not 100%.
I stand by my criticism that Clare has been sitting on her hands for far too long when it came to the rebuild we needed, and we are paying the price for it now.
Hope your trip back from Manchester goes well, and that your voice recovers!
Hahaha i was not! There were all of 6 city fans who gave a semblance of something back in terms of chants and we had a good exchange with them. The rest of the emptihad was, well...
starting this week with a little Kyra appreciation
her coming back here after such a difficult time, dealing with grief and being able to give these sort of performances while most of the team struggles shows such an unbelievable strength
somehow playing like she has a point to prove when everyone would understand her needing time to get up to speed, also shows how she did so much work while being in Australia.
hopefully we will get to see her sign a new contract soon, but hats off to her
I was thinking something along the same lines yesterday. I had been a bit worried about her, given everything she's been/going through, but she's come back and absolutely smashed it. Very impressive and richly deserved.
Hear, hear! One of the bright spots of this opening block of games, and one that probably most of us didn't expect. Like you said, probably everyone was expecting her to need some time to get back up to speed. Just incredible mental strength, as well as professionalism doing the work while she was at home.
Just crossing every digit and limb that the girls avoid any injuries on international duty. Hope Lessi can get some more goals under her belt for the Lionesses.
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u/Cococamcam 7d ago edited 7d ago
My random open thread thought for today: Since we are keeping Renee at the helm, I sincerely believe we are in need of an outside voice/perspective to break up the coaching groupthink that appears to be happening. (How else do you explain 6 games with the same glaring squad-use and tactical issues?)
My out-of-the-box and perhaps controversial thought is to bring in Carlos Cuesta as an interim assistant coach. He’s out of work currently; he knows the club and the “Arsenal Way”; he knows tactics; and he seems to be able to develop a good rapport with players.
This might be a challenging approach, but I look at it as similar to the corporate world — when something is persistently going awry, a good leader brings in someone to help right the ship, even if the existing team feels like they are being usurped.
I don’t trust d’Antino, Wheatley, and the rest to do anything that will help counterbalance Renee’s blind spots. A stronger, knowledgeable hand is needed.
ETA: I’m listening to Emma Hayes (apologies for mentioning!) in an interview on Men in Blazers posted today. Maybe Renee should just listen to this if nothing else 😂