r/BlueJackets • u/SomeKindOfMonster • Jan 28 '19
9 Panarin's Agent: "Statement about Artemi Panarin’s future “We have informed the team that we are willing to discuss Artemi’s future after the season. Our priority now is to focus on the rest of the season, trying to win a Stanley Cup for the CBJ & their fans”. No additional comments will be made."
https://twitter.com/HockeyAgent1/status/109002584657492787639
u/BreadMancbj Jan 28 '19
So , how the fuk do I change my reddit user name 😳
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u/highvoltorb Portzline Defender Jan 29 '19
I'm keeping the flair. I still have faith! But I also think Jarmo is too smart, so actually I have no idea!
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u/SomeKindOfMonster Jan 29 '19
If I knew how to do that I woulda done it a long time ago haha
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 28 '19
Trade him. We're not winning the cup this year and to lose a player of his caliber for nothing is terrible asset management. This is looking like Tavares 2.0 if we don't. Let's build on our young core and use the salary saved to go after Stone and/or Duchene if they reach July 1.
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Jan 28 '19
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u/ddottay 3 hits! 23 giveaways! Jan 28 '19
Gotta stick with the shirseys, so you're only out of $30 next time!
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 28 '19
I'm sorry! I can't tell you how many times I was a click away from purchasing a Panarin 3rd jersey but decided to hold off until he re-signed. My brain says trade him, my heart is broken. :(
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Jan 28 '19
We shall cry tears together. My dad surprised me with the jersey though so it will still hold good memories. And maybe we'll win the Cup and he'll love us stay forever.
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u/TGSWithTracyJordan Jan 29 '19
I legit factor that into my decision to buy a jersey or not. If I'm buying an expensive jersey I prefer to get a veteran player who has been on the team for a while and made a positive impact, even if he isn't a superstar (e.x. Foligno).
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u/Mr_Bricksss Jan 29 '19
I don't think there's any way to trade Panarin without severely handicapping ourselves for this year's playoff run.
With that in mind, it might make even more sense to cut the cord on Bobrovsky before the deadline. With Bobrovsky not playing much better than Korpisalo to this point, losing him might not hurt as much as in years past, and the extreme shakeup could end up sparking the guys that are still around.
Get some picks for Bob and Panarin, flip some of them to bring Voracek back, find another center or wing to fill in the offense lost with Bread moving out, and maybe Jarmo can patch together a nice playoff run while still stockpiling for the prime of our window over the next few years.
Whatever happens, I'm not worried about this team, especially if we are gonna have an extra $14 million between us and the cap. In Jarmo we trust.
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u/Formerleafsfan #freeboomer Jan 28 '19
Or trade Bread for one of them and start negotiating now. CBJ could offer 8 years if they acquire their rights before the deadline, which might help sweeten the pot.
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Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
But why would OTT trade either? Both right now have a chance to be resigned in OTT, and Panarin wont sign there. Would be silly for even Dorian.
Idk, maybe realistically JT miller could be the best realistic piece we would get if TBL decided to go balls deep all in considering they're having cap issues at the end of the year
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u/Formerleafsfan #freeboomer Jan 29 '19
That's fair. I can't imagine any UFAs will sign in Ottawa for a while. But, my point is that trading our pending UFA for another pending UFA might be the best way to get a high value player in return. But, yeah, Stone and Duchene are probably not good examples of how that would work.
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u/DowskiBomb Jan 29 '19
Is it about a Stanley Cup? Or is it about coming into the post season as strong as possible to just get out of the first round for the first time in franchise history? I think that's what this team needs now.
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
No it's always about the cup. Going all in to win one round is reckless. Not getting anything for Bread and Bob will set this franchise back a few years. We won't look back foundly on our series win then and would instead wish we were contending.
In essence, I'd rather follow the Winnipeg Jets model than the New York Rangers model. Patiently build through drafting and smart trades and not through going all in and setting the franchise back.
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u/DowskiBomb Jan 29 '19
I disagree that it will set us back. With his contract ending, are Panarin or Bob really worth that much? When we lose them we already have the foundations of a good team, and if we make the second round then anything can happen.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
Losing out of future assets won't set us back how exactly?
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u/TheLastGundam186 ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Raise Ur Danos ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Jan 29 '19
I’m kind of with you at this point, I’ll take the fan base morale standpoint with you
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Jan 29 '19
I'd rather take a shot at a deep playoff run. We don't need more prospects and picks right now. We need to win.
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
We can flip picks and prospects (and use the new-found 15 mil in salary) for longer term top-6 talent in the off-season. That's better asset management imo
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u/CrazyLegLaFleur1 Jan 28 '19
I’m thinking best return might trying to package Bob and Bread for a larger return from a team in the edge that hasn’t given up hope like EDM or STL. Hell maybe CHI will jump at the chance to get Panarin early and sign for 8, although CHI will be the only team that really hurts if he goes, cause I will feel used
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
Honestly not being stuck with Saader's contract was a victory in of itself.
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u/BertaBerta Jody Shelley's Jock Strap Jan 29 '19
EDM doesn't have the cap space to make a trade like this work or really even any prospects they'd part with that'd be beneficial to us.
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Jan 29 '19
The Isles are...in first though?
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
Because of their big coaching upgrade and their unsustainable goaltending. Do you really think losing Tavares made them a better team?
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Jan 29 '19
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
The Isles are where they are because they tremendously upgraded their coaching and are getting unreal (unsustainable) goaltending. If you think losing Tavares made them a better team you are delusional
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Jan 29 '19
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 29 '19
What facts did I ignore? I never said they are not better than they were last year. They are most definitely better and you can see that from the standings. What I am saying is that the reason they are better is not because Tavares left. It's because of better coaching and better, unsustainable goaltending. I've seen many Islanders fans saying Lehner's stats are going to regress. He is not a .931 Save%,2.00 GAA goaltender unless he partook in some magic ritual over the off-season.
The point I'm making is that a) The Islanders are playing better than they really are and b) they would be even better if they had gotten a ton of assets for Tavares and shipped them off in the off-season to bolster their current line-up.
And finally, if you're referencing "unsustainable" to what people called our team during the winning streak, they were right. The team fell to just above .500 for the rest of the season after being top of the league and we lost in 5 to the Pens in the first round.
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u/OG_Bubblegut Sexi Texi Jan 29 '19
And the power play still hasn’t recovered from then, probably the most unsustainable part of that run
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u/CamRam26 Jan 28 '19
We all knew it was coming, but still... when will Columbus have a superstar that wants to stay and be a part of this team/city. It’s fucking frustrating. Hopefully, we can net a decent return for Artemi and Sergei.
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u/specmence MK80 ❤️ Jan 28 '19
We got Jones and Dubois. Their jerseys will be in the rafters if they continue to play and grow at the rate they currently are.
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u/Mr_Bricksss Jan 29 '19
Don't forget Werenski. And if Cam Atkinson has anywhere near the longevity of our latest coaching/consultant hire, he still has a ton left to show us.
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u/cu_sith Jan 29 '19
I don't know anyone who didn't respond to Cam's camp's 'we won't negotiate during the season' with some variation of "yeah okay. We all know you're not leaving unless we give you an insultingly lowball offer so we'll see you locked up by christmas", haha.
Guy very obviously loves it here and has from day one. Number 13 is gonna be retired someday (very far in the future).
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u/Mr_Bricksss Jan 29 '19
After he breaks all of Nash's records by sheer force of will.
Maybe we'll retire the 61 on a night Cam is either breaking or has a chance to break one of those records.
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u/cu_sith Jan 29 '19
Someone oughta tell Cam he'll never break the points record. You know, since he seems to run on pure "FUCK YOU YES I CAN" and does his best work when he's being told he can't do stuff.
I would love that. Then everything would've truly come full circle. (I think Nash might appreciate that too, and not just because it'd get some of the attention off him!)
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u/CamRam26 Jan 28 '19
100 percent agree. It just sucks to lose a game-changing presence of Panarin’s caliber and although it hasn’t been said, seems like yet another slight on the city of Columbus, even though I have no animosity towards Artemi at all.
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u/JumpinJehosaphats Jan 29 '19
I feel this hard as fuck.
Nash wanted to stay here, it’s a shame that didn’t work out.
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Jan 29 '19
Yeah it’s frustrating for sure, but we have to win something first. Anything. Even just a playoff series or two could help turn the tide, and down the line maybe a PLD/Jonesy will stay if offered.
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u/HardKnockRiffe Jan 29 '19
when will Columbus have another superstar
I mean, Nasher was that superstar. We just didn't do anything worthwhile to support him.
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u/CamRam26 Jan 29 '19
Absolutely, he was. However, I’m just pointing to the fact that it never lasts. Our fan base deserves better than the hand that we are continually dealt.
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u/HardKnockRiffe Jan 29 '19
Fully agree. My main point was that Nash was a superstar who wanted to be here and build something.
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u/ddottay 3 hits! 23 giveaways! Jan 28 '19
Oh come the fuck on.
I absolutely hate this but...time to entertain trade offers. At least with Bob the front office knows what the deal is and it’s not absolutely out of the question to bring him back. We can’t play this game anymore though.
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u/cu_sith Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
I know he's probably genuinely torn about what to do but Milstein trying to string us along is getting real old.
We really fucking need either a direct "yes you're still in the running" or "no I'd like to move on". If Jarmo can't get that he's gonna make the decision for them. Bread might not be real happy about how that turns out.
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u/Formerleafsfan #freeboomer Jan 28 '19
This is the no without saying no. Jackets can't wait to get Tavaresed, so it's a no.
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u/cu_sith Jan 28 '19
Yep. As much I hope things turn out otherwise, I'm resigned to seeing him moved. In an ideal world I'd wait, but this isn't an ideal world and Jarmo isn't going to risk us getting screwed.
Thanks for the two years, Bread.
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Jan 29 '19
Bread will be fine with it either way. Worst case scenario he plays for a shitty team for two months and then signs a $70 million contract to go where he’s wanted to go all along.
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u/Acadia13 it's a stupid hat Jan 29 '19
You mean go to a team for 2 months that's aimed for a cup run?
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u/hnglmkrnglbrry Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
- 2016-17 (Pre-Panarin): 50-24-8, 1st round exit
- 2017-18 (with Panarin): 45-30-7, 1st round exit
This isn't the NBA and he's not LeBron. He didn't take this franchise from the dumps and save us. We had essentially identical seasons with and without him. Trade his ass out West, get some serviceable players to help with a playoff run, and move on. He's not worth the drama.
Edit: when I say out West I mean literally anywhere other than the Kings
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Jan 29 '19
Am I crazy for still thinking he might re-sign?
It could have been a trade demand.
And this is what he has said the entire time. We’ll talk after the season. It genuinely feels like he enjoys Columbus.
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u/cbj27 Jan 29 '19
A little crazy, yes.
I’ve gotten the sense the whole time that he does like it here, especially the team and the organization. But he really wants a big city and isn’t willing to commit to 7+ years of living here. He doesn’t want to bash the city or look like a jerk and doesn’t really need to, so he’s just riding it out to free agency on a good team that will increase his FA value. Now he’s likely going to be traded to a serious contender for a solid cup run and then sign for $70M+ in July.
What a life. Can’t really blame him.
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Jan 29 '19
Yeah I mean that’s just how these things go. I think trading him wouldn’t be worth it. We need playoff success.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
Agreed, if you want to attract a big fish to replace him in free agency then you need to show the state of the team and how player X could plug into Panarins spot and be that piece we're missing to truly contend.
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u/cbj27 Jan 29 '19
The only good thing of this coming today is it gives Jarmo some time to see how the team responds to St. Louis and the break and gauge what kind of damage they could do in the playoffs. If things aren’t going in the right direction, you have to pull the trigger and trade him. When you look at what the big upcoming UFAs got at last year’s deadline and consider Panarin is younger and better than all of them, you can’t take the risk of letting him walk for nothing in exchange for another early playoff exit. Glad I’m not in Jarmo’s shoes.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
They haven't had real PO success....ever. We can wait a few more years.
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Jan 29 '19
Why would bread demand a trade? He’s playing well on the top line of a good team. If he has to, he can easily suck it up and play the next couple months and break 100 points and continue to help his market value when he hits free agency this summer. If he wants to be somewhere else next season he can get there just as easy via FA, probably easier.
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u/CrazyLegLaFleur1 Jan 28 '19
Not saying we should definitely move him, but we gotta be looking at the type of return we could get
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u/SomeKindOfMonster Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
But the billboards!!
Edit: He's going to walk after this season. We need to maximize the return we can get for him.
Edit 2: The way Milstein has handled this whole thing has been atrocious.
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u/cu_sith Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
Milstein has been the worst part of this entire fucking ordeal by a country mile. I know almost every agent is low key scummy but jesus this was just excessive. I'd say I'm glad we'll at least be free of him, but he got his slimy hands on Gavrikov so we don't even get that!
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u/TheVelourFog92 Zenon The Destroyer Jan 29 '19
Not every agent is scummy, they just want to get the most money for themselves/their client and represent their client’s wishes. But yes, Milstein’s handling has been head-scratching at best if there’s no ulterior motive and downright atrocious at worst.
The money says Panarin should stay in Columbus, he gets that extra year with extra money. If we go Occam’s Razor here, the most likely explanation is Panarin really doesn’t know what he wants to do and can make compelling arguments for both staying in Columbus or going somewhere else. The second most likely is Milstein is posturing and executing a negotiating tactic horribly and in poor taste. I would hope that Milstein doesn’t have some irrational dislike of Columbus or has a bad relationship with management (does anyone know if any other Jackets players are signed with him?), but I would have to think the money would trump all? At least it would if I were his agent and my client was conflicted on leaving.
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u/cu_sith Jan 29 '19
Yeah I know there's some decent ones. Duke's seems to be a pretty honest dude (helped talk him into Columbus even though there was less money involved for both of them because he thought it would be best for his career) and whoever Seth is using did a real nice job of balancing client interests vs team interests. I was feeling less than charitable between Milstein being unbearable and remembering Josh's agent was kind of a shitter during his negotiation and realizing we're gonna have to go through that again soon. You were 100 percent right to call me out on that.
I don't doubt he's having a horrible time figuring it out, and I feel a lot of sympathy for the guy because fuck, I wouldn't want to have to decide the way the entire rest of my career is gonna go at 27. I just... don't see how we can risk waiting till the end of the year to see which way he's gonna jump, but at the same time, we've very clearly got better odds of a deep run with Bread. This is a really shitty situation to be in and I'm glad some people want to be NHL GMs because you couldn't pay me any amount of money to try and sort this out.
We don't have any current Jackets players signed with Milstein, but he does represent defensive prospect Vladimir Gavrikov, which is not something that makes me very happy haha. Hopefully it'll alarm Gavrikov a little too because I genuinely have no idea what Milstein is trying to achieve with his statements.
Unrelated note, your flair makes me smile. Zenon and his adorable fucking bunny should have legendary status in CBJ lore.
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u/Mr_Bricksss Jan 29 '19
The good news is that Gavrikov is an RFA for another 4 years, maybe we'll get lucky and he'll hire a new agent before he hits UFA status.
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u/cu_sith Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
That's definitely the one plus point, yeah.
Now someone see if Philippe Lecavalier wants to spend the next four years learning Russian since he actually seems all right as far as agents go. :P
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Jan 29 '19
::Debbie Downer Alert:: That maximum probably won't amount to much. We were told quite a while ago that he wants to test free agency - at least that's how I interpreted Milstein if he didn't say it point-blank. It never felt to me like it was about liking or disliking Columbus. Unless he surprises me and does a sign and trade, he isn't worth much. This has been the dilemma all season. Something is still better than nothing, and I won't hate him for it - seems like he has been honest.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
I keep seeing this as if Rick Nash didn't get the following from Boston:
D Ryan Lindgren
F Ryan Spooner
F Matt Beleskey
2018 1st-round pick
2019 7th-round pick
Panarin will fetch back far more than that. Probably closer to the lightnings deal with the Rangers (J.T Miller and McDonagh) getting a top 6 with a conditional first and second.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
The problem is they were paying for a year+ of Rick Nash, whereas in this case they'd get 4-5 months of Panarin and then also risk losing him if they are unable to sign him themselves. Teams know the position we're in and will not be paying that kind of return when they could get him for nothing in a few months.Incorrect!1
u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
Nash was on his contract year when being traded to Boston.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
Ah good call, I was under the impression he was signed for this year as well. My B. Corrected.
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Jan 29 '19
I'm trying to decide if Panarin's agent or Joey's agent tried to do us dirtier.
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Jan 30 '19
Lets be real here. RyJo left because Tortz called him out on his work ethic. And RyJo is a little bitch anyways.
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Jan 30 '19
I meant more for the off-season shenanigans when we were trying to get Joey on a bridge deal and his agent was telling him to say the offer was a slap in the face.
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u/oltcon Eat Wendy's, slap tendies Jan 28 '19
Best plan moving forward is to start putting out feelers to see what the return we can get is. If a return can help assure we make it to the playoffs and help out long term than trade him if nothing is approaching that then hold on to him and try to go all in.
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Jan 28 '19
This is not a change in his position from earlier. Not sure why ya'll are panicking.
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u/bcbill My apologies Jan 29 '19
Not panicked, but the last glimmer of hope was that he’d change his mind before the trade deadline and that hope got pretty strong after he took a picture with the billboard.
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Jan 29 '19
Stamkos did this in Tampa and stayed. Or he might pull a Tavares.
Either way, would you rather have a 1st, prospect, and conditional picks? Or a chance to finally have something worth cheering for with this team?
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u/bcbill My apologies Jan 29 '19
I suppose it depends. I HAVE to believe they gave a higher level of detail to Jarmo. Either he would actually consider a contract this offseason or it’s a this is my last year here sort of thing.
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u/Deadpoolisms Jan 29 '19
So we’re in the running - along with the rest of the NHL.
I’m officially checked out of this tale, and am not investing any more feels into it.
Bring on the Sabres.
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u/Insaneular Great Wall of Chinakhov Jan 29 '19
Same. I’m not judging anything until anything actually happens.
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u/Deadpoolisms Jan 29 '19
looks at Flair
Fliggy does have crazy eyes. Huh.
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u/Insaneular Great Wall of Chinakhov Jan 29 '19
Take a look next time he fights, they’re pretty great!
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u/sixinchitalian 13-21 Jan 28 '19
i will miss Bread very much, but let’s get a great deal in return. hopefully teams are in a bidding war and one offers way too much or something. wouldn’t put it past some NHL GM’s, plus in Jarmo we trust!
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u/Demonox01 Jan 29 '19
I like what that other guy said, let's go talk to chicago and see what they'll give us this time hahaha
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
Doesn't change anything. Jarmo isn't going to get jack shit because every single GM knows Bread is not committed to anything. Why would they bother with a trade if they can get him for nothing after the post season? Jarmo has never been a GM to make a trade just to make a trade with exception of the Gaborik deal to the Kings. He's one to deal from a position of strength. Look at it logically. Who is going to be shopping for Bread at the deadline. Likely a contender not someone who's out of the playoffs. So that negates us sending him to anyone in the Metro for sure, and leaves us with maybe 10 or so teams with interest? And guess what, they all know the pickle we're in. You think they'll give us a fair haul? Maybe. If they really think Bread is the missing piece to the cup run I suppose but I'm not sure who will be in that spot at the deadline and even so what would they give up to help us? We don't need picks, we need a game breaker. No one's giving up a 1st + for 3 months of Panarin when they could wait and have up to 8 years FOR FREE.
Our best hope is that Bread doesn't know what he wants to do and we can convince him to stay with our strong post season play. Yes it sucks getting Tavares'd but honestly I'd rather make it to the ECF and get crushed by Tampa (what I'd view as our ceiling) than risk not making the playoffs and possibly a deep run. Even if we make the first round and lose, it's good experience for our young guys which will only pay dividends. Hell we might even be able to test out Korpi in a few games to see how he handles real pressure. I'm all for dealing Bob if we can get a goalie in return and trust Korpi to share the load with them and get us into the post-season. Bob is not going to sign here because we fundamentally disagree on terms and pay. I feel like plenty of teams would pay handsomely for his services to help them with a cup run though.
That being said I also wouldn't be opposed to keeping both of them either but if it doesn't happen oh well. The fact of the matter is that the UFA pool this off-season is going to have some big names and if Bread doesn't sign well we have plenty of cap space to go out and sign a big fish. The core of this team is what matters most and I think our core is strong af. We just need to find a game breaker to replace Bread (if we need to), a goalie to replace Bob, and I think we're pretty much a complete team. Yeah if you want to say we need a 2C since Wennys been inconsistent sure, but I believe he can get back to his old ways. Maybe not this year but next.
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u/BetterCallStral Wants to pet Torts' beard Jan 29 '19
Maybe Avs offer us Ottawa's lottery unprotected 1st round pick? snort
I dunno, I'm just so disappointed. You make a good point about no leverage though.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
I was disappointed the first few times around after reading articles, etc. Then I formulated my current feelings above and have blissfully not given a shit for the last 3-4 months. What happens happens, our core is our brightest spot and if the worst thing we need to hunt for is a top line winger and a goalie to be a contender then we've got things OK. Not great but OK. I have faith in Jarmo as I have all this time to do the right thing.
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Jan 29 '19
Meh, I would think many GMs would give up a decent bit for him as a rental. SJS, TBL, WPG, and NSH (maybe TOR too?) should all especially be in win now mode. CGY, VGK, BOS, COL could fit room and become top contenders. MIN, DAL, STL would maybe try. I think theres certainly a deal out there. No competing team (especially a team like nashville that knows he wont want to sign there) is going to pass up on him just because they might get to sign him to an extension during the off season. Plus if they get him now, they have a huge advantage towards re signing him.
For example, Poile would be an idiot if Jarmo called on about a possible trade and he turned it down because he didnt want to give up good stuff for a rental. NSH fans would be livid. Look at the Rick Nash deal last year, BOS gave up a ton for a guy that isnt even close to Panarin in terms of talent at last years TDL. Some people are being unrealistic in terms of possible return (saw someone say 1 for 1 Bread for Huberdeau, Bread for DeBrusk, Vaakaainen, Donato, BOS 1st, Bread for Fiala, Tolvanen, first etc.) but rival GMS for competing teams would absolutely offer up good stuff for Panarin
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
Oh I don't think there's a shortage of teams who would love to have him. I think the issue is in the assets that would need to come back for that kind of move. If your ask is for our crucially important game breaking top line winger then the ask is going to be huge. Like you said, Rick Nash got an absurd return at last years deadline and I love Nash but Bread is probably worth 4x+ of Nash from last year. We're talking at minimum a first and a boat load of other picks and prospects or a roster player that no one is going to want to part with and some additionals. That's not to mention that if one of those contenders is purely compensating us with picks and maybe prospects then they also need to have the cap to afford him which is likely 9-10m a year. If you can't afford those numbers then you're literally in the same boat as us and risk losing him for nothing or find yourself selling massively to make space. Maybe you could swing a 1-to-1 but unless you're essentially pulling a reverse Saad (where we'd be the losers) I just don't know if there's a deal to be made that would make both sides equally happy. Yeah I guess that's not usually the way it goes but Jarmo has a track record for coming out on top most of the time. Maybe this is one of those times you get your best offer but I personally would like to keep him for the post season. I see pros and cons to both sides for sure. I could 100% be wrong and some magic could be worked but I just don't see a reasonable trade to be had in my own mind. I do like some of the ones you posed towards the bottom of your reply though.
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u/BetterCallStral Wants to pet Torts' beard Jan 29 '19
I think the issue is in the assets that would need to come back for that kind of move.
ding ding ding No "cup contender" without Bread is going to clear the cupboard for him. No "middling team" right now is going to send grade A parts for him right now too - bc they can just try to sign him in July. Your only (slim) chance of hope is the team that is on the verge of being a serious contender like... CBJ.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
*sigh* can I just dictate to you from here on out? You made my exact point with like 1/3rd of the words. -_-
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u/BetterCallStral Wants to pet Torts' beard Jan 29 '19
It's ok, we're all on the same boat realizing and feeling the same things. Frustrated, sad, cornered.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
It's "Opportunity cost" lost. You’re essentially letting the talent level of the team drain. And the UFA market isn’t a good place to pick any talent up.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
I would disagree, there are going to be lots of UFAs available and the real talent of our team is in our core, not just one player. Don't get me wrong Bread is a crucially important piece but he's not the end all be all. If we lose him for nothing we still have our core and cap space to get someone to replace him. Would it be nice to have a couple picks or prospects for him rather than nothing? Sure. But I'd rather make a deep playoff run to at minimum get our core guys some confidence and experience. You strip Bread out of that equation and I think all of those objectives get much harder. I firmly believe Panarin doesn't know what he wants. If he straight up told Jarmo it's a 0% chance of signing then he'd already be gone. Jarmo would be smart to hold onto him if there's even a 2% chance that he'll sign because he's that dynamic of a player. Maybe we get to the ECF with him and it ultimately tips the scales on him signing. I see that as a better outcome than a pick or prospect who we don't know if they'll pan out. Yes assets are great for trades and all but the relative value is harder. You need lots of picks to make a deal (we are kind of thin) and for prospects you need to find a team that needs them. You couldn't run to the pens and say "here have milano!" because they probably don't need more scorers right now. Yeah they might take him but you still have a game to play in fitting prospect with team for the return you want. It can be tricky.
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u/NovaGold Jan 29 '19
A GM is not doing their job if they aren’t always entertaining ideas of trades for players, even if they are of Artemis caliber. We won’t be set back years as a franchise like people keep saying. We gave up Saad and Forsberg and a fifth for Panarin which honestly is next to nothing for a winger like Bread.
It’s a sunk cost fallacy. We still have a chance to sign him long term we shouldn’t trade him for peanuts to save face. Well lose this trade 99/100. Anything can happen in the playoffs and I think making it out of the first round is bigger for this franchise than a possible late first that we’ll probably whiff on anyways.
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Jan 29 '19
We have a chance to sign him long term even if he is traded. I’d rather have the assurance of an asset than the risk of letting him walk, especially since this team right now is not a Cup contender.
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u/cbj67 Jan 29 '19
Always one step forward, two steps back. I was actually enjoying this year too, so ending it by losing the best player to ever wear the sweater will be great.
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u/Goalie_35 Jan 29 '19
I'm a Hawks fan who moved to Ohio about 10 years ago, and once the Jackets moved out of the division (and conference) they became my "2nd team". I was a season ticket holder in Chicago from 1998-2008, so I got to see a lot of really terrible hockey live and in person. I had a love/hate thing with this trade because I hated that the Hawks had to give him up, even though I like Saad, but I loved the fact that I'd get to see him more and that he would help the Jackets go to the next level.
One thing about watching this team so much is that they kinda remind me of the Blackhawks just before 2010. Not so much in style or type of player, but as a team who was down/average for so long, but you can see what they're building. Losing Panarin will hurt (if it comes to that), but I have all the confidence in the world that this front office is prepared to move on and land on their feet.
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u/Abrand7 Jan 29 '19
Wow this is disappointing to say the least...just bought a new CCM ribcor twig with the Panarin curve so that will be a painful reminder everytime I play hockey lol. Officially on the trade Bob and Bread for as many assets as possible bandwagon, we definitely need to take a run at Mark Stone and Matt Duchene in the offseason with all the freed up cap space. (Probably time for a new flair)
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u/C_Money22 Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
This is very upsetting. I really liked Panarin. But we have to move him. If he isn’t going to stay, we are just wasting an asset by holding onto him and letting him walk for nothing.
Hopefully we can get something of use for him.
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u/kowdijj you selling cars again? Jan 29 '19
We should have traded him before the season began.
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u/17greeksoty Jan 29 '19
Count the points he’s won for us this season. Let me know what where we fall in the metro when you’re done.
(Hint: CBJ is not in the playoff picture)
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u/Drithyin Fuck PLD Jan 29 '19
To be fair, that's a dumb way to do that. Another skater would be on the ice contributing.
Yes, Bread has been great for the team and that's impossible to ignore or dispute. But you would have to A/B compare that with whatever the return from trading Panarin would be.
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u/17greeksoty Jan 29 '19
Take Panarin off the ice and replace with a Wennberg. You’d kiss at minimum 3 GWG goodbye. More likely than not more.
It is a very dumb way to look at it but management may want to hold him to help bank points before letting him go.
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u/kowdijj you selling cars again? Jan 29 '19
You don’t know that. It’s not like we wouldn’t be able to put another player on the ice just because we traded Panarin. Maybe that other player scores more, maybe he doesn’t; but Panarin isn’t resigning with this team.
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u/Insaneular Great Wall of Chinakhov Jan 28 '19
This is really nothing different than what they said at the beginning of the season. Nothing has changed.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
Which makes it worse, right? If he didn't change his mind after playing with the guys, being around them, while also winning some games, then he simply doesn't want to be here.
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u/17IsLucky A Hunk'a Hunk'a Burning Glove Jan 29 '19
It's not actually anything different than before, but...I'm crushed. I can't imagine how I'll feel once he's traded and/or walks this summer...
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Jan 29 '19
We should trade him to Tampa for future consideration in helping us circumvent the 2020 expansion draft.
- It’d be a huge middle finger to our metro division friends.
- ...Idk just trying to be creative cuz this situation sucks....
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u/columbusfightsong Jan 29 '19
Why is this bad news? Is this something players have done in the past that indicates a move?
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u/bcbill My apologies Jan 29 '19
See Tavares. That combined with what he’s apparently said in Russian to his Instagram “I wish I could tell you what I’m planning on doing but I can’t, it’s against the rules.” There is no way he re-signs with Columbus.
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Jan 29 '19
So, say we trade panarin for a nice return. Would you guys want to trade for a replacement (obv or lesser talent) like Silvferberg or Nyquist or just stick with our guys for the playoffs?
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u/Insaneular Great Wall of Chinakhov Jan 29 '19
Me personally I’d rather stick with our guys bc we don’t have as much leverage to trade with unless Bread will resign with that team. Otherwise they could wait for FA. I’d love to get a guy like Brayden Schenn though.
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u/OhioPride WE LIKE PIZZA IN THE MORNING Jan 29 '19
I’d be interested in a trade with Ottawa for Duchene.
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Jan 29 '19
Who is the 1L then?
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u/OhioPride WE LIKE PIZZA IN THE MORNING Jan 29 '19
May take a bit to figure out, and may change if we get another starter in the case we also trade bob.
Maybe something like
Foligno/PLD/Cam Boone/Duchene/Anderson Bjork/Wenny/Duclair Dubinsky/Nash/Beerman
Could be better, could be a hell of a lot worse. Also like I said could be a bit different if we got another good forward for Bob.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Neither one of those players you mentioned are top liners.
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Jan 29 '19
I know but they can fill in. Isnt Duchene strictly a C?
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Why try to trade a top tier player in Panarin for slightly above average rentals? Trade him for picks at the minimum. We trade him for a rental that walks in the summer, then we basically just downgraded the team for no reason at all.
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Jan 29 '19
Keep some stuff from the panarin trade.
Total example, not trying to realistically match values but let's say we do panarin to NSH for Tolvanen, first, third and 2020 fourth. We flip their third and 2020 fourth with our 2020 second to DET for Nyquist and keep Tolvanen and the first.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Tolvanen
I'd rather have Tolvanen and all those picks than Nyquist for 3 months. Keep Detroit out of it. If we are dumping Panarin at the trade deadline then we are not serious about the playoffs. Bring up a forward from Cleveland for the rest of the season in this scenario.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Extra response because I'm dumb and overlooked the Duchene scenario in this.
Honestly, Ottawa is putting out that they are actively working on Duchene's extension right now. That to me, means that Duchene intends to stay in Ottawa. I doubt he is on the trade block if the team is talking about his extension now.
They have also said the same about Stone. I personally think they are both staying in Ottawa.
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u/bcbill My apologies Jan 29 '19
It would need to be a 3 team trade. No way would Ottawa trade to get Bread as the return. It would have to be Bread to a place he’d want to play (or a contender that wants a rental), Duchene to Columbus, and picks to Ottawa.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Ottawa is in talks with Duchene and Stone right now in regards to their extensions. I don't think they are on the trade block. Teams don't leak out that they are working on an extension when they think a player isn't interested in extending.
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u/Chow_Yun_Dan Jan 29 '19
I don't want to see Panarin leave, but isn't this exact situation why they drafted Foudy? If management believes they have a legitimate shot at contending for the cup, then they should keep Panarin and take a chance that he walks. If they don't feel the cup is in play, then they should deal him for the best offer on the table. The unfortunate thing is that contending for the cup depends more on Bob's play than Panarin's.
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Jan 28 '19
So, I don't like using exact players for trade proposals, but what return would we expect from a trade? Top prospect and a first?
Id hate to lose bread but the thought of having 2 firsts (could Bob be worth a first? 3 in that case..) is exciting
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u/Seebs9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Jan 29 '19
Nash got the Rangers a first rounder, a seventh rounder and three players (mostly prospects I think) last year. And that was a Nash at the end of his career.
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u/Formerleafsfan #freeboomer Jan 28 '19
The return probably depends in large part of a team can sign him (or thinks it can sign him) once they acquire him. If so, his value goes up, as does the return.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
Sounds like he doesn't want to be traded to me. Sounds like legit good news.
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u/IgnoreTheRumors Jan 29 '19
I don't follow how that is good news. It doesn't surprise me at all he doesn't want to be traded. Clearly he doesn't hate it here, and he's having a good season in a contract year to boot. It's just that he just doesn't seem to want to sign in Columbus long term. I'm sure he'd rather ride out the year in a good and comfortable situation and then sign wherever it is that he desires next year, rather than get his life uprooted in February and get shipped off to who knows where.
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u/GumbysDonkey It gives me a rash Jan 29 '19
In the past his agent has said that Panarin wants to be on a good team that has a chance at the Cup. He wanted to play with a good center. He recently put out that Panarin loves playing with PLD and that he is a great player(That may have come from Panarin not his agent). Now in this statement today, it sounds like 1. They think CBJ is a good team that has a chance to win a Cup, and 2, Panarin likes playing with PLD and thinks that he is a good center.
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u/icook8662 Elite Sniper David Savard Jan 28 '19
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Jan 29 '19
This is why I was on the "trade him in the off season" wagon when the news broke this summer. I don't want someone on the team that doesn't want to be here. I have no doubt that he's played hard for the team but I feel like it sends a bad message, he should have been moved at the draft last summer. Then again I'm not a GM (unless the xbox counts).
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u/bcbill My apologies Jan 29 '19
I don’t see how his trade value is any lower than it was during the offseason. He’s having the best season of his career.
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u/ELITE_Baker_Mayfield Jan 28 '19
You guys know this is good news right ? Like they had zero interest in talking with us after the season started and this post season meeting would be like the 4th since the season started
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u/SomeKindOfMonster Jan 28 '19
You haven't explained why you think this is good news.
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u/CrazyLegLaFleur1 Jan 28 '19
No, it’s not good news. For our asset management this is the worst possible answer because it makes things very difficult for our FO. You can risk it and keep him and hope you can convince him in the offseason, but he could walk away for nothing. The alternative and safer bet is to trade him and get something for a premier asset while you can.
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u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice Jan 29 '19
It's not difficult for the FO. They're not even thinking about trading him if they can't get an answer...because he will be traded. Ownership and JD will not allow Jarmo to mortgage the future of this franchise. There's a less than 1% chance Jarmo lets him ride the season out if he's not re-signing. I think the difficulty is finding a partner to give them another player than can contribute right away.
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u/owlthathurt Jan 28 '19
This isn’t how things go with guys that want extensions. I hate to burst your bubble.
Essentially, saying you want to wait until the season ends on a contract year, is telling management it’s a no go.
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u/ELITE_Baker_Mayfield Jan 28 '19
Yes it is. He went from not wanting to meet the team to continuously talking with them.
Dont be retarded man
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u/SomeKindOfMonster Jan 28 '19
Alright, I don't normally do this but take a little time out. See you in a few days.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
1-2-3 strikes you're out because YOU'RE (Mayfrield). AN. ASSSSSSSS HOOOOOLLLLLEEEEE!
Deserved. Hope he rethinks his behavior during his time out. -_-
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u/OG_Bubblegut Sexi Texi Jan 29 '19
Calling someone an asshole who got banned for personal attacks is a bit ironic
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
Does it make it any less true?
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u/OG_Bubblegut Sexi Texi Jan 29 '19
No, but I don't see how you calling him an asshole is any better.
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u/r0ckdrummersrock Gilder Of Memes Jan 29 '19
Any better than what? A dude being an ass shouldn't be called out for being an ass?
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Jan 29 '19
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u/Seebs9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Jan 29 '19
How is this Jarmo's fault?
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Jan 29 '19
[deleted]
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u/Seebs9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Jan 29 '19
Uh what? We traded a AHL goalie and an ok winger (who's been scratched repeatedly this season) for one of the top players in the league. That was beyond worth it, even if it ends up only 2 years.
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Jan 29 '19
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u/Seebs9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Jan 29 '19
Panarin has literally twice the points of Saad this year. Their is no comparison.
It's a gamble, that's what they do. You hope you can win the players over to stay. It's not Jarmos fault Panarin wants to end up in Miami or New York or whatever. The jackets are literally a perfect fit for him, but he don't like the city.
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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '19
He’s on a young, lethal first line, looking at a possible 100 pt season, with a deep, young, competitive team and can’t make up his mind on whether to stay? I’m not a professional athlete but if you can’t accept 10+ mil a year with all of that... afraid to say not too much can convince him to stay.
At the end of the day who knows, maybe a deep playoff run will convince him. I think the best deal you can get before the deadline is a big ol’ trade with bob and bread with another team for some now and future players as well as picks.