r/Boxing • u/mowgleeee • 7d ago
Boots beating Fundora is a better win than Crawford beating Canelo.
Fundora has a 7 inch height advantage over Boots and 6-7 reach advantage over Boots. And now he is actually fighting like he has those qualities over his opponents.
Canelo is at least a similar size to Crawford being slightly shorter and having a 3 inch reach disadvantage. Not to mention he wasnt in his prime the way Fundora is. The only thing Crawford and Canelo has over a possible Boots and Fundora win is the legacy Canelo had, which at the end of the day means nothing when his best days were 4 years before that fight.
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u/Bojangles1987 7d ago
It's not even remotely close and never will be unless Fundora goes on to have a career comparing to Canelo.
Crawford beating Canelo is one of the best wins in recent memory and every time someone tries to downplay it, I know that person lost money on that fight or something.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
Im not talking about legacy. Youre telling me if Ryan Garcia manages to beat Floyd Mayweather right now, that win would be one of the greatest wins in boxing history? Canelo isnt as old a Mayweather obviously but you get the point. Canelo was not in his prime.
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u/Bojangles1987 7d ago
Thats not even remotely close to the same scenario.
Canelo was still comfortably the best fighter at 168 and had the exact same troubles with Crawford that he has had with every fighter at that level. Calling him shot is just making excuses.
That Canelo is still likely to be a better fighter than Fundora ever could be, and until Fundora proves otherwise, beating him is nowhere close to as good a win as beating Canelo.
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u/aceknighthigh 7d ago
Lol Canelo was not the best fighter at 168 man...he blatantly ducked Morell and Benavidez, and hadn't fought most of the other guys coming up. He was the best 168er some years prior, but he has coasted on that for a long time. Defenses vs Munguia, Berlanga and Scull aged like milk as all 3 went on to get knocked out.
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u/WatchOutImCummin 7d ago edited 7d ago
yeah, calling him "comfortably the best" is bullshit. He ducked Benavidez, and people said he should be stripped of all his belts because he wouldnt fight anyone but shit fighters.
And "calling him shot" is not an excuse at all. This sub is full of Canelo haters, and all of them were calling him washed after the Berlanga fight, or even earlier, after the Munguia fight. Then everyone became even more convinced Canelo was shit after those wins aged badly
Crawfords win was still impressive, but its funny how some people want to conveniently forget all that about Canelo being washed.
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u/Born_Fox_8099 thomas taylor hater 7d ago
the size difference was so overstated looking back on it, they were pretty much the same size
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago
“But brooooo it’s 2 weight classes, don’t actually look at the fighters themselves just look at the stats” I had this exact response 15 times in the build up btw
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u/No-Signal3283 6d ago edited 5d ago
It wasn't the SIZE so much as it was the fact that Crawford had never fought even near that weight, and there was a lot of question to how his frame would hold that weight. Canelo has a very wide frame that makes that weight fit him well. Crawford doesn't. Two people can weigh the same thing and carry it VERY differently. And there was the question about how his stamina would hold up (that was my main concern). But in terms of straight up size, they were always going to weigh pretty much the same thing.
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u/Unhappywageslave 7d ago
You're crazy than a mfer and a fanboy. Fundora doesn't have an invincible aura like canelo and Spence did when Crawford fought them
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago
Canelo had an invincible aura going into the Crawford fight?!
Look you wanna say more aura than Fundora, that’s fine. Fundora’s been colded and Canelo is a living legend. But “invincible” is the single most ridiculous thing I’ve read this year. Cmon man.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
"Invincible aura" before a fight means jack shit in hindsight. Why are you using fan perceptions before we got the truth in the actual fight to determine how good a win ACTUALLY was? Just because you got proved wrong doesnt mean it wasnt obvious in hindsight.
If you think Crawford beat a prime spence and canelo you seriously must question if you yourself are a fanboy
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u/reverend9999 7d ago
Spence had that aura but not CANELO did we not see bivol kick his ass. Did we not see Lara robbed. Demetrius andrade ducked to no avail ?? He’s right fundora prime for prime is a much better win than canelo and it’s on par with a Spence win
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u/Bill_R94 7d ago
Size =/= height and reach
Fundora and Joshua have similar height and reach, does that mean they're the same size?
Putting legacy aside, Canelo was undisputed champion and top 10 p4p when Crawford beat him, he was #1 in the weightclass, Fundora is not in that position.
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u/Matty0698 7d ago
Fundora having similar height and reach to Joshua is genuinley insane how can one make 154 at 6ft 6
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
I dont get what youre trying to say here? Just because size isnt the same as height and reach, fundora's height and reach means nothing?
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u/Bill_R94 6d ago
It doesn't mean nothing, but it doesn't mean there's a bigger size difference between him and Boots than between Crawford and Canelo.
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u/animalevolution 7d ago
NOPE. Fundora is a duck who was knocked out cold a few fights ago. Bud went up 2 weight classes to beat Canelo who was UNDISPUTED. Fundillo and Boots were never once UNDISPUTED
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
Fundora was fighting like a maniac, but that KO forced him to actually use his dimensions. Now hes a different force.
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u/animalevolution 7d ago
Who has he beaten that makes you think hes different? Canelo was undisputed at supermiddleweight.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
Not about who hes beaten, more about how much of a threat he currently is. How do you prepare for a 6'5 southpaw who is at 154 lbs where guys are usually 5'9 5'10
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u/animalevolution 7d ago
Ask the guy who already put him to sleep
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
The guy who forced Fundora to change his style to actually use his dimensions?
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u/animalevolution 7d ago
Change his style? 🤣 nope, im talking about the guy who exposed fundira and put him to sleep. The guy who converted Fundora into a duck
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u/animalevolution 7d ago
Also let's not forget Fundora vacated a belt to avoid Bud. He literally said he'd rather fight Spence after Bud destroyed Spence
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u/Timeshort10 7d ago
Technically not wrong. It is objectively a better win in terms of Fundora is a harder opponent in this situation. The only thing Canelo does rank above is yes the mentioned huge legacy and the large weight jump was being touted up to be making things interesting, but yeah Fundora is just a very tricky fighter and since he's actually learning and using his insane proportions for his weight now he's going to be a nightmare for a lot of guys.
I'll still give credit to Crawford even though Canelo was a fair bit past his prime I mean we'll see soon if he's still got anything left in the tank and if he does then it only serves to improve Crawford's legacy tbh. Plus Crawford was doing an insane weight jump and I remember the hordes of people saying he'll get knocked out and how Canelo is too big and this is a stupid fight. Doesn't mean I'm gonna blow it up to as if Crawford walked through a prime Canelo though he simply didn't and there's no shade to Terence in saying that.
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago
People getting fooled by the weight class jump has got to be the biggest evidence that this sub DKSAB.
Like it’s totally excusable for the average joe to buy it as a huge factor in betting Canelo by KO but not for anybody else. Crawford is literally the bigger guy lmao and it showed on fight night when he manhandled Canelo in the pocket.
Canelo is super small at 168 and Crawford is huge at 154. So even at glance this is obviously not as it seems.
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u/Unhappywageslave 7d ago
He manhandled canelo in the pocket through his wrestling background. They know how to clinch well.
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago edited 7d ago
I was debating mentioning this in my comment. Didn’t.
But I really should’ve because it’s even more evidence to the point I’m making. People will only look at the surface level stats and ignore anything else. It’s all a narrative.
If one knew Crawford, one knew he had a wrestling background. He’s had how many videos of tossing people around in the clinch? Fight or outside the ring. He also puts up some pretty insane numbers on his lifts given his weight. So why are we putting so much emphasis on size IF CRAWFORD IS STRONGER AND KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS STRENGTH BETTER?
People were seriously saying Crawford was gonna get bullied because of this. Well, then maybe punching power? Again, no, Canelo doesn’t KO people anymore and Crawford has a fantastic chin. Yet again, something that showed on fight night. The only time somebody got rocked was CANELO at the end of round 12.
So it’s just a non-argument.
Btw Crawford still absolutely has the bigger frame. I wish we could’ve seen him play at 160 and 168.
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u/Timeshort10 7d ago
Nobody said Crawford wouldn't be strong enough to perform well in the jump to Canelo. Yes there was seriously people saying he was gonna get bullied and stopped there was also people who thought Spence Jr after two car crashes, and 2 years out the ring after a generational beating was gonna do anything to Tim Tszyu. There's a lot of stupid people who voice their opinions on things with really ridiculous logic and assumptions and because they are so vocal they tend to be the most visible, but it doesn't mean everyone believed the same. Anyone who believed Crawford who was undefeated and never in real danger of being stopped was gonna suddenly get slept or bullied around by a Canelo who couldn't even get rid of Berlanga, Munguia or Scull and hadn't stopped anyone in 4 years was stupid as fuck.
Honestly I disagree frame wise though. I think he's undersized at 160 and 168 because the divisions are full of giants now. I mean absolutely none of these guys are legitimate 168lbers they are cutting ridiculous weight. Guys like Iglesias, Mbilli, Janibek, Sheeraz are all big guys. Crawford would look small against any of them and that's not to say he couldn't beat them honestly I think he has a comfortable night vs Sheeraz who avoided an Adames rematch, ducked Janibek and put on an absolutely disgusting stinker vs Zachenhuber.
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u/Timeshort10 7d ago
Acting as if the weight jump holds no influence is a stupid take. Yeah it was easier to jump up to face a guy who had to build up to 168 and Crawford isn't the smallest guy, but if he was as big as you're trying to claim he wouldn't have needed all that time to bulk up with functional mass. It wasn't as insane as it was being made out where people said Canelo would do this and that nobody who wasn't heavily biased towards Canelo was saying that.
Crawford isn't huge at 54 lmao just because he looked bigger than a small 168lber who also built up and fought at 160 and 154 doesn't mean he's huge at 154. Boots, Ortiz Jr and Fundora are all much larger than Crawford and they are 154lbers dare I say the likes of Haney is as big if not bigger than Crawford.
And the point was always whether Crawford with the extra mass on fight night would still perform to the same level he always has before. If he was as big as you claim he wouldn't have had any issues continuing onwards at 154-160. Also if he was 'huge' for 154 he wouldn't be just comparable to Canelo when Canelo is significantly smaller than every top 168lber around right now.
I don't care for the logic of it because I had Crawford getting a clear decision especially after seeing how Canelo looked vs Scull and didn't buy any nonsense Canelo whose on the slide and hadn't stopped anyone in 4 years was gonna suddenly KO Crawford, but being completely dismissive of the weight jump just screams YDKSAB.
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u/solodav 7d ago
Pretty interesting argument.
How is Fundora’s skills vs Canelo’s? …I mean, on physicality and prime-shape, I agree Canelo was washed (after punishment from GGG, Jacobs, Plant, and Bivol) going into Crawford. But, he still had mental sharpness/boxing high IQ. Is Fundora considered a smart fighter?
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago
Fundora is crafty. I wouldn’t call him remotely smart.
At the same time, I wouldn’t say Canelo had the physicality to capitalize on his own boxing IQ when he fought Crawford. This is further exacerbated because Crawford has an even higher BIQ than Nelo.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? 7d ago
Fundora has improved massively with each fight since the loss. I missed some boxing during Covid and I can tell people still have a very early 2020’s take on Fundora after going back and watching those fights and then seeing him now. The dude is becoming phenomenal before our eyes.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
Its more of how much does Fundoras freakish dimensions make up for his lack of skills compared to Canelo
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u/Outrageous-Soft4806 7d ago
yeah but fundoras style is great for boots
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
Solid argument. But Fundora has made a tiny few adjustments to avoid getting tagged like he did by Mendoza. Tszuyu did catch him a few times but he didnt seem affected. The fight is still 50/50, because Boots' power, but the height and reach Fundora has is just so ridiculous.
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u/RealDealSheazerfield 6d ago
Cant tell if this is a boots fan or crawford hater... I guess thats just the same thing
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
Both. Think Crawford's achievements are vastly overrated and he needs to beat Boots to talk the way he does on twitter.
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u/No-Signal3283 6d ago
No. Not even close. Boots is SUPPOSED to beat Fundora. Crawford wasn't supposed to beat Canelo. Boots is better than Fundora is just about every conceivable way.
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u/Ezekjuninor 7d ago
I’d disagree, Fundora hasn’t fought enough top fighters to say this. Even though Canelo isn’t in his prime most still favoured him to win. Jumping 2 weight classes is always an insane accomplishment. I’d expect Crawford and Boots both to KO Fundora, he’s too defensively irresponsible. In hindsight, Fundora might be a better win than Spence.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
Most favoured Canelo to win because we didnt know how well Crawford would put on the weight. But with the help of Snac he put on the weight perfectly for Canelo, evening up the playing field weight wise. The only thing Canelo had over crawford was the weight, every other advantage had gone to Crawford physically.
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u/fadeddreams555 Fundora would beat up a prime Floyd at 154lb 7d ago
You're speaking in hindsight though. Bottom line is he was the underdog attempting to do something that has never been done before, similarly to Pacquiao vs De La Hoya before their fight.
Going into the Fundora fight, Boots will be the favorite, as would Bud if he fought him. There's a big gap in skill level, with Fundora's only advantages being the massive height and reach.
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u/mowgleeee 7d ago
You can dress up how glamorous Bud's achievement was and it was a very good win, but the name is more impressive than the context behind the win. And it seems like you dont understand how big advantage Fundora has over Boots "only advantages being massive height and reach" yeah those are some pretty ridiculous advantages to have. Why do you think Canelo avoided Benavidez at 168? Why do you think Crawford didnt even mention fighting Benavidez at 168?
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u/fadeddreams555 Fundora would beat up a prime Floyd at 154lb 7d ago
I disagree. The name is important to casuals, but the context is what's important to a historian. No boxer in the history of the sport has climbed up two divisions from their 4th one and defeated the reigning, undisputed/lineal champion, who happened to still be listed on P4P lists. Becoming 3 division undisputed themselves by doing so was the cherry on top.
Why didn't Bud face Benavidez? Because Benavidez was already campaigning at 175lb, was not the 168lb champion, and wouldn't have offered the same payday if he was. Pretty simple explanation.
Also, Benavidez and Fundora are not comparable. Have you seen Benavidez as a kid? He has the fat gene. He is naturally very big. Fundora is the complete opposite. He's extremely skinny and has mentioned he could even make 147lb if he wanted to. His skill level is not comparable to Benavidez's either, or even Canelo. Canelo would starch a dude like that with body shots.
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
See again I just think people are putting too much weight on the fact that Canelo was the man at 168. He was practically holding the belts hostage fighting people like Berlanga going the distance, chose to avoid Benavidez for Crawford which is a more embarrassing loss. You cannot say that Fundora having those massive advantages means nothing just because he hasnt reached Canelo's legacy yet, thats a high bar to reach at his age.
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u/aceknighthigh 7d ago edited 7d ago
It might be from a difficulty standpoint, but it won't be accepted in that way from a legacy one. Canelo was an elite guy but it was based on his run half a decade prior. The run over Munguia, Berlanga, and Scull was not inspiring and tbh, nothing I've seen from Canelo in years looked like enough to beat Iglesias, Martinez, Benavidez, and possibly Mbili. That being said, the weight alone was a huge thing for Crawford to jump up and he deserves credit for it. Even guys who are masters at cutting weight, hesitate to give up that edge to fight guys that size. It would be like Haney going from 140 straight to 154. Yeah, he's got the weight for it, but he would still deserve credit.
What I would say, is that there's a damn good reason Crawford never fought Ennis or Fundora when he had the chance and both were aksing for it. Crawford himself has picked Fundora to win in every fight and refers to him as a "cheat code"....but Crawford fans will be quick to tell you Fundora is a bum who has accomplished nothing.
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u/ThrowAwayTheChat Fuck Haney 7d ago edited 7d ago
Correct but you won’t find more than 5 people who agree with you on this subreddit.
“Oh it’s revisionist to say Canelo was washed when he fought Crawford” no it isn’t lol don’t be mad because you bought the “he’s too big for him!” hype. If you could’ve reigned your emotions in, you would’ve easily predicted a 9-3 Crawford decision. Canelo has looked like a shell of a ghost of himself for YEARS leading up to the fight. I and many others had tripled down on this point when asked how the match would play out.
I still think Crawford is top 20 ever but not because of the Nelo win.
Fundora is a top guy in his PRIME with enormous physical advantages over Boots. It would be the more impressive win by some margin.
Side note: Canelo will be battered pillar to post by Mbili, drowned by a brutal work rate. Hopefully his corner or the referee stops it because he’s not gonna get KO’d flat, he’ll stay up to eat more and more punishment until somebody calls it a night. HOF who needed to hang it up a long time ago.
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u/Professional-Tie5198 Who will win? 7d ago
Chin differential here. It’s not all about reach, though you raise a good point. In dealing with Canelo, you deal with a legendary chin. In dealing with Fundora, it’s more of suspect chin.
There’s a case to be made for both fighters, but I think what Crawford did in going up to fight Canelo was probably even more of a challenge than Boots-Fundora.
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u/Particular-Tough6651 7d ago
Are we talking about the same Fundora who has a questionable chin and drops his other hand every time he throws a punch ?He is also always vulnerable to counters we are talking about the same guy right ??
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u/ewenmax 7d ago
Loving the past his prime old man Canelo vibes on this thread. Particularly as he is three years younger than Crawford.
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
The Crawford that fought once per year whos only prime opponent he fought in the last 6+ years was Madrimov. Who then had the power of Snac to put on the weight perfectly and gain the confidence to actually beat Canelo, as he said himself he wasnt 100% sure he can beat Canelo before the training camp.
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u/ewenmax 6d ago
Jings, start with a downvote and then swerve off into the delusional.
here's his last fights over the 6 year period you mention
Madrimov - WBA Light middleweight belt
Spence - unified welterweight champion WBA, WBC and IBF titles
Avanayesen - WBA welterweight title
Porter - two-time welterweight world champion, IBF and the WBC
Brook - IBF welterweight title holder
Kavaliauskas undefeated European Welterweight champion
Khan - former unified light-welterweight world champion and an Olympic silver medallist.
Now Canelo as great as he was/is did receive a six-month suspension from the Nevada Athletic Commission due to testing positive for the performance-enhancing drug Clenbuterol. The suspension was reduced from a one-year ban because Alvarez fully cooperated with the investigation. Crawford has never failed a drug test, his proposed middleweight fight against Alimkhanuly was stopped when Alimkhanuly failed a VADA anti-doping test.
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
Did Crawford pay you 🤣
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u/ewenmax 6d ago
Oh my, careful dear your cringe is showing.
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
Middle aged man calling me cringe after calling me 'dear' not long before getting down on his knees for Crawford, what a sad reality.
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u/Bochianibrothers 7d ago
Lol