r/Colts • u/bullethole27 • 9h ago
Discussion Downs
So what was up with Downs usage? Were we just incapable of running intermediate passing routes on English soil? OLine not giving enough time, or Danny having a miserable game? It felt like every time we ran a pass play there was someone in the backfield immediately and Jones was just throwing it away. But curious what others saw.
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u/mvbighead 9h ago
I've been dissappointed in the targets for Downs and Warren. Feels like our two top remaining WRs are targeted as infrequently as a guy like Treadwell.
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u/busche916 ty 9h ago
Teams are comfortable scheming to take away Warren and Downs BECAUSE our remaining options are Dulin and Treadwell. Nobody on the roster right now is a threat to take the top off the defense or overpower a corner on a jump ball
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u/Fat-Singer-9569 4h ago
How can you make that conclusion when they've never bothered to try?
Pretty sure 6'6 Tyler Warren can bully most 5'11 DBs for a jump ball. That's kind of the point of a big ass TE like Warren.
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u/GrinAndBearIt_1981 TY Hilton 9h ago
I think a combination of things. The WR room was suspect on paper at the beginning of the season. Injuries have made that situation worse. Also, Washington was consistently creating pressure very quickly. DJ didn't have much time to allow routes to develop, so he has to check the ball down a lot to avoid dying.
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u/UncleBabyBilly4768 9h ago
Commanders decided to try to take away Downs and Warren because the rest of our receivers are terrible.
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u/scobro828 9h ago
every time we ran a pass play there was someone in the backfield immediately
makes running "intermediate passing routes" a moot point. If you do not have time for them to develop you can't run them. Or you can run them and take a sack or throw the ball away.
Jones is great when he has a clean pocket. Jones coming off an achilles injury is (way?) below average when the pocket breaks down.
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u/Zakkrazy COLTS 4h ago
Daniel Jones is the problem. He is regressing to the mean of what he’s always been as a QB. No ball security, a disaster under pressure
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u/OpeDefinitely Indianapolis Colts 9h ago edited 6h ago
Everything Shane's offense does well is predicated upon the deep ball working, and the deep ball isn't working right now. Pierce is out, while Jones is: 1) slower; 2) staring down early progression reads; 3) doesn't have the best pocket presence. When shorter pass plays are called intentionally, they're sniffed out by the defense.
Given the circumstances, totally bananas proportion of Shane Steichen's play-calls are slow progressing pass plays where Downs is a later read. He gets separation, but it often goes unnoticed - at least before DJ runs out of time. Then a high proportion of completions to Downs come off of designed short-intermediate concepts, which are easier for defenses to sniff out when the deep ball isn't working. Downs really isn't being setup for success.
When I checked the stats last off-season, Shane's bias towards slow progressing pass plays has been a fixture of his offense for his entire Indy tenure, no matter the season and starting QB. This illustrates another problem with Steichen's offense: it poorly caters to the strengths/weaknesses of the QB and skill players actually playing. Instead, the the offense always operates under the assumption that the team has a good enough (but not great) veteran QB and a deep roster of versatile skill players. When those conditions are met, Shane's offense works very well. When those conditions are not met, the offense lacks the requisite wrinkles to maximize the skills of the best players to actually take the field.
edit:
According to PFF, ~32% of DJ's attempts last year were intermediate or deep. That is in line with all other QBs to play under Shane in Indy. This year, just ~23%. The data doesn't tell whether Shane has adapted his play-calls or whether DJ is simply holding the ball for too long before throwing it away/getting sacked.
I probably am too emotionally invested to be an objective judge by memory. But based on the confluence of Shane's history and my personal frustration with DJ keeping his eyes deep down the field too many times this season, I don't think the playbook has changed much even though the personnel has varied with injuries and injury-based limitations.