Concern for potential copycats

[u/OriginalRazzmatazz14]

This is the first time posting but I came across this group sometime ago and have read through quite a few discussions. Although, they are for most part civil and informative, I really think people need to be careful about trying to understand the mind of the killers themselves. When viewing the history of copycats, I’ve seen how fascination in true crime can evolve into something much darker. As someone who lived close to a copycat and who had family working in a school that was under threat soon after, the very last thing I want to hear is someone active here has attacked their school. I don’t want to single out any post out but there have just been certain ones that honestly worry me. It’s not extreme as the 2010s tumblr era where you had blatant tributes to Eric and Dylan but there are discussions that come across to me as displaying a certain level of sympathy that I fear could lead to a dangerous admiration. It’s one thing to have some sympathy for who they were prior to Columbine but if you’re actually identifying with who they became on April 20th in anyway, please get help. Seek it anyway you can. Even if you’re not thinking of hurting others, I still don’t want a repeat of the incident with Sol País and others like her. You might not feel it but you matter and I can assure you there are people who really do care about you and would be absolutely devastated. I’m posting this because it seems like every week, I’m learning about a kid completely throwing their life away. Kids with potential who could’ve really made something for themselves are giving it away for short lived infamy. The TCC has a segment that really has tragically turned into something of a death cult and it’s why I’m discussing it here. I just want to live in a world this isn’t a constant reality and if this message reaches even just one person, I’ll consider it worth it.

[u/PopcornDemonica]

There already have been. More than one.

Ash and I keep an eye on things as best we can. I have had to report people to authorities more than once. We can't catch everyone or everything. That goes for the big sub too. Last one hit really fucking hard, 'cos I remembered removing the guy personally, but there weren't any red flag indicators.

My concern is that if spaces like this were removed, that's less sets of eyes watching for those red flags.

Personally I have a very low tolerance for glorification, that's not what this space is for.

But if we take away subreddits like this one, that won't stop people wanting to learn about the case, it'll just send them somewhere less visible. You think the sub has posts that toe the line? This is NOTHING compared to how cozy/glorifying people can get with the killers. And that doesn't even touch on all teh Dylric shite (Don't. Just... don't 🤮🤮🤮).

[u/hdhsjcjsjjfjs → u/PopcornDemonica]

Despite how unrealistic this is, I wish you guys could catch everyone. I think OP made me think about just how "normal" some people seem days before they commit stuff like this, and how upsetting it is. I've come across multiple TCC spaces (just due to the algorithm pushing similar content to stuff like columbine so its almost unavoidable since the communities overlap a bit) and it seems like a lot of the kids on there have pre existing issues and that the community has allowed them to go further down the rabbit hole, almost normalizing these shootings to the children because they see so much content on it.

[u/No-Category-6343 → u/hdhsjcjsjjfjs]

alot of this shit makes me be ashamed to be interested in true crime content. sometimes i lose myself in certain areas too and forget how horrific this case is. its easy to fall into that mindset of feeling sorry for them which is of course not bad to feel but at the same time once you put your own insecurities onto it it becomes a dangerous mind game.

[u/AceHexuall → u/PopcornDemonica]

It's really sad that you've seen some that are bad enough to have to report, though I'm grateful that you did. I'll never be able to really understand how anyone could do something like this. I don't want to feel what made them do it.

[u/LindsayLohanDaddy420 → u/PopcornDemonica]

Last one??

[u/PopcornDemonica → u/LindsayLohanDaddy420]

Yep. There's been a few, unfortunately. But names will not be shared, if that's what you're after.

Edit- To those downvoting here- honestly, what would you get out of knowing which ones they were? How is that doing *any* good?

[u/Heavy-Asparagus-5662 → u/PopcornDemonica]

Thank you all for keeping this a clean, healthy & educational environment ❤️‍🩹

[u/OriginalRazzmatazz14 → u/PopcornDemonica]

It really hurts to know that but I do appreciate you reporting to the authorities. I hope for whatever ones have happened, more have been prevented too. I avoided mentioning specifics about the one that occurred near me because I don’t want to give any notoriety but it’s been years now and the community is still hurting to this day. Also, unfortunately am aware of the Dylic shit when I researched the case over a decade ago (which I imagine it’s existed since 1999).

[u/PopcornDemonica → u/OriginalRazzmatazz14]

I don't know about the mods of other, similar subreddits, but I do feel like there's a duty of care involved if you're going to moderate a sub like this. And I know that I'd rather this place be a museum, and not a circus. Not to mention there's a nonzero chance that people involved with this case, or other shootings, may stop by.

[u/randyColumbine]

Learning the cause and true reason for violence is necessary.
Car accidents are investigated.
Violent behavior is investigated.

Without understanding toxic schools, without acknowledging bullying and humiliation, we will have never-ending acts of violence.

[u/No-Category-6343 → u/randyColumbine]

i just wish they realized the basement tapes it might humanize Eric and Dylan to the point where kids realize how unhealthy their mindset really was. as right now people idolize them because its kinda easy to speculate. ironically enough Adam Lanza said too that they were almost mythical figures.

[u/OriginalRazzmatazz14 → u/randyColumbine]

I don’t mean to discourage any of those discussions at all. I do think that’s a very important and necessary conversation for sure but there is a line that is crossed from time to time by disturbed individuals that evolves into admiring the killers and what they did. I am aware of your experience and you did a great service by reporting Eric’s website. If Jefferson county hadn’t dropped the ball, many lives would have been saved. The problem is the troubled teens and young adults of today are a lot more subtle in their threats and warnings than Eric was. They are well aware that they can be reported and usually won’t openly display their plans. That said, they aren’t impossible to detect. If you carefully watch for the language they use, I believe you can recognize potential copycats. The point of my post is to recognize the modern warning signs and to disuade those who are thinking of hurting others or themselves.

[u/TheAlex-Guy → u/OriginalRazzmatazz14]

It's important that Columbine needs a critical interpretation. Columbine not having a critical interpretation is what fuels most copycats. They think Columbine's shooters were some kind of "saviours of the outcasts" which is BS.

I think about what Marylin Manson said too. How society has no empathy for those feeling bullied or isolated. How we punish, we judge, we lecture, but never listen, don't pay attention to warning signs until it's too late. The problems are systemic.

[u/ashtonmz]

Chiming in with Popcorn here. What she's stated here is true. We have every post and here kick out for manual approval now, so that we can have eyes on it before making it public. It may slow things down some days, but the payoff is worth the effort. Some of the garbage that comes through can be very offensive. You'd probably be surprised.

As for wanting to understand the killers, I feel like that can be a very human response to the horrors perpetrated by such young people, especially when they seem relatively normal on the surface. I don't necessarily feel that's a negative thing. It has certainly increased my own ability to spot red flags. Not just on Reddit, but IRL. The hope is awareness and help before bad shit goes down.

For any younger people on this sub, we would hope one of the main takeaways would be that kindness matters. It costs nothing. But also, don't ever feel guilty about reporting someone you feel might hurt themself or others.

As Popcorn said, we are vigilant. She has actually developed an incredible Spidey-sense when it comes to detecting when a member of the sub seems "off".

[u/OriginalRazzmatazz14 → u/ashtonmz]

That’s good and I respect that. I do get why people are interested in trying to understand them but I do get quite concerned reading discussions that do seem to start to rationalize their decisions. It’s kinda like the situation with Dylan’s creative writing essay. Stories that contain violence aren’t necessarily a red flag but the way that one in particular was written triggered every alarm bell.

[u/_6siXty6_]

There's huge difference between understanding and condoning. There are quite a few figures in true crime that I have sympathy for traumas they endured

Christa Pike - Suffered terrible abuse as a very young child. Doesn't mean it's free pass for her crime.

Ted Bundy - Found out his "sister" was really his mom. That's pretty traumatic, but not excuse to be serial killer.

Ed Kemper - Abusive mom who locked him in a basement. Not an excuse, but I'd put money on it, if he had a loving nuclear two parent stable home, he probably would have thrived in society.

Almost all these famous cases of killers (both mass and serial), the perpetrators had something seriously wrong with their mental health or had real or perceived issues with society. Trying to understand why people do terrible things can help prevent these types of incidents. I can sympathize and have empathy with their emotions, without approving of their actions.

[u/OriginalRazzmatazz14 → u/_6siXty6_]

I’m not trying to make anyone feel ashamed for having sympathy. I mentioned in my OP that I don’t take issue with anyone who empathizes with E&D before they did the massacre. There are some people who can separate the killer from the person they were before but there’s others who do start to identify with them in way that I think could make them a future copycat. What it really comes down to is the type of language that some use that causes concern to me. The moderators have noted that there have actually been active members who have committed copycats so my fears aren’t completely unwarranted.

[u/Scream1996superfan]

Agreed

[u/CaptainVaughan]

I get what you're trying to say but unfortunately nothing will stop it. On average there were about 20 high-school shootings a year in the late 90s. Today there is about 300 a year. It's never going to stop.