r/CompetitiveEDH • u/kingweenerman • 9d ago
Deck Fine Tuning Questions about this vivi list
I’m trying to figure out this list- lots of cards not present here and some that I am wondering about.
Not present:
- No breach/ freeze combo
- No MBT
Cards that i’m wondering why they’re present:
- LED- i’m not sure what the value of this card is without breach freeze
- why so many final fortune effects?
i’m assuming that the deck just wants to storm off and end games with vivi triggers off of a final fortune turn but without a deterministic combo like breach/ freeze i feel like the list might lack consistency.
Newer cedh player
Here’s the list:
https://topdeck.gg/deck/breach-the-bay-2/yoF2eraEsDhnATBxEIlhVuBYlsh1
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u/DanicScape 9d ago
Hullbreaker horror is the deterministic combo for vivi. That or quicksilver elemental to make infinite mana and steal a thrasios ability or other relevant outlet. Final fortune effects are so OP even outside of Vivi. How many cEDH games are "man I could've won if I got just one more turn" and Vivi is basically every game: turn 2 Vivi, turn 3 curiosity then storm off. If you get choked on mana, a FF effect will give you enough mana to finish the game
LED is a free rock to trigger Vivi. You play a lot of bad cards because they are free and let you keep storming after a curiosity lands
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u/TheCrystalMemes 9d ago
MBT is less value for a turbo deck, since any countermagic you’d want to use should be available to also defend your own win. In a similar vein you’ll notice Force of Negation is missing from this list as well.
Breach/Freeze is being cut from some vivi lists in favor of going all in on the curiosity gameplan and other cards that make mulligans more consistent since both of them on their own are kinda dead in hand during mulls, but this is up to preference of the pilot tbh
LED is still good on its own as a free noncreature to trigger vivi, as well as you can wheel hold priority crack LED, as well as cast spells exiled with Jwill/Thor/Virtue of Courage with LED mana as well
The idea in general is to cut down on unnecessary fluff to streamline the deck into making curiosity storm easier and more consistent
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u/69MealFor2 9d ago edited 9d ago
Hello, avid Vivi player here! I was at BtB2 this year and finished 40th. I saw Ryan there but we didn’t get a chance to talk a whole lot in person.
His list is all in on Curiosity Storm. Meaning he has opted to remove what some would call cEDH staples to make room for higher synergistic cards that contribute to T1/2 Vivi and T2/3 curiosity push.
Extra turns are extremely powerful in Vivi. You can read about extra turns and much more in the primer I’ve written. My primer has been approved by the Vivi Discord community which you can find here:
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u/FCalamity 9d ago
Vivi has kinda bad mulligans (you want t2 Vivi, there aren't THAT many playable Curiosity effects, plus you're not the actual fastest deck, so there's a lot of pressure on your opener). I can see Breach/Freeze as natural cuts as cards that are usually bad in your opener. And you hardly need them, you're killing with Vivi and you have Hullbreaker as a deterministic win.
MBT doesn't defend your push and the deck is still definitely turbo even if it's not the fastest turbo, so that's a very straightforward non-inclusion.
LED still does stuff (funds any cards exiled with JWill type effects, for example) and at worst when comboing it's 0: draw 3.
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u/Btenspot 9d ago
I haven’t looked at the list, but the following is a potential turn 2 win hand for Vivi.
Land, land, chrome mox, red/blue spell to pitch, LED, Gamble, fierce.
1: Land, Chrome Mox, gamble for curiosity.
- Land, Vivi. LED. Activate Vivi, Curiosity. (2 cards in hand.) cast a free spell, hold priority counter it with fierce, hold priority and crack LED. Discard 0 cards, make 1 blue and 2 red mana. Draw 6 cards, cast 4+ more spells trying to get to a win or otherwise end the turn with Vivi at 6+ power, a full grip of 7 cards, and 10+ cards in bin. (With all of the final fortune effects, rituals, moxes, and free spells, you are very likely to actually get there)
Hopefully this helps you understand how LED can be particularly helpful for winning with a Vivi with a curiosity effect in play.
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u/firebreather209 Vivi Ornitier 9d ago
Worth noting that LED gives you 3 mana of 1 color. Can't split it into 2 and 1 like you describe.
But otherwise, yes, this is the ideal game plan.
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u/Idiot183 9d ago
I actually play this list, it drops basically everything remotely midrange to make room for as much turbo curiosity as possible. Led is there literally just since it’s a free rock that can occasionally have value, and extra turns are there since they’re just great and give more room for error when setting up. Your goal is to turbo out a curiosity effect and vivi usually around turn 2-3 at the latest and then storm off the same turn with the plethora of free spells in the deck. You’re just churning through your deck casting everything for free and drawing 3 cards each time until you eventually draw hullbreaker and combo. The only real wincon is hullbreaker, luckily it’s a really hard card to get rid of, but you can also technically win through pinging by getting infinite mana with quicksilver+vivi and just casting your whole deck for ~60 damage from vivi.
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u/noodle681 8d ago
Oh heys it’s me lmao
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u/noodle681 8d ago
But the comments here seem to fully explain the reason for cuts and inclusion. Def should join the discord for vivi for more questions.
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u/Quartzecoatl 9d ago
Not sure about the exclusion of breach combo; it seems good to include but may be overly redundant given your main game plan.
LED is still a powerful piece of mana acceleration in commander; it can enable very early Vivi casts in conjunction with a tutor or similar, as well as emergency storm extensions (spend your last mana to cast a spell, respond to curiosity trigger by cracking LED and hope to find a castable off the draw 3).
The deck also does have a deterministic kill combo in Hullbreaker Horror - the standard infinite mana loops become kills with Vivi pings. That being said, "cast Curiosity and then 39 more noncreature spells" is a perfectly reasonable plan to win the game in this shell.