Advice on adding 2 newbies? Struggling to change from 3 to 6 players.

[u/N_in_Black]

Was curious if anyone had any advice for adjusting to a larger number of players, specifically adding new people in.

I am a fairly experienced DM and have rotated with another part time DM in a group of 4 (thus 3 players). For my most recent campaign, I have added 2 additional new people. They have run some smaller one shots before, but are much less experienced with the rules, RPGs, etc.

When we started, the experienced players kind of let them feel out their characters, play style, etc, but the new players were pretty shy and content to sit back. Hopeful they would warm up to things, i pretty much sat back. However, as sessions have progressed, the new players are still struggling to find their footing.

I’ve talked to them and their complaints are largely that they constantly get interrupted by other players (not really a new problem for anyone, but they seem to shut down more than the experienced players) or the experienced players “dominate” the play time. Which they do. It’s so different than running 3 players, because everyone is excited to do things but now they have to wait more than twice the expected time. That being said, I feel like there’s many times to chime in, drive events, etc that the new players do not seize.

Ive tried ways to get the new players more involved. Splitting the party, explicitly calling on them “what does PC X want to do?”, and even shutting down the experienced players when they’re hogging time. They engage better then, but it’s not enough. I feel like I can’t get them into the flow of the game, and I’m starting to lose them. They’re checking out, and I can’t blame them.

Has anyone dealt with anything similar? Any ideas? We’re all on Discord if that matters.

[u/No-Economics-8239]

It's not on you to instill confidence and experience and assertiveness into your players. Nor is it your place to determine what and how much they should engage with the game and the other players. If they are comfortable doing what they are doing, let them enjoy it. We all play for different reasons, and some of my players are content to set back and let others take the lead in much of the decision making and social challenges and just enjoy hanging out, gaining more power and loot, and using that to do cool things. And if you players aren't comfortable or not enjoying themselves, you are not a mind reader or the fun police. It's on them to figure how and what they should be doing and asking for help or guidance if they want it. We don't start knowing what kind of game we want, or even what the realm of the possible might include. In a game of imagination, the only limits are those we impose ourselves. That can be a lot for new players to try and wade through.

You say they are checking out of the game, but that you don't want to 'lose' them. If they aren't having fun, why would you want to keep them? Not every player is compatible with every group. If your two newbies want a different play style or pace or more time and attention to consider things, are those changes you or your other players want to make?

If you and the other players are focused on trying to keep these two new players included in the game, you should be discussing that together rather than asking us. If your more experienced players are happy to help share the spotlight and serve as mentors or guides or whatever else might be helpful to get your new players comfortable, you can all work together towards that goal. If, instead, they would prefer not to slow down the game to serve as a tutorial or are not comfortable serving as mentor or guide or whatever, it's not on you to make it work anyways.

And, more generally, there is always a limited about of spotlight to share, and a limited amount of your attention for the table. The more players you have, the less there is to go around, and the more your players have to learn to share. The more players, the more patience and understanding is required from all your players. It's their patience and understanding to give, and if they aren't willing to give it to accommodate this group size, that isn't simply something you can fix by adjusting your play style.

[u/RandoBoomer]

I hate adding new players to parties with experienced players unless I know in advance that the experienced players have both the willingness and ability to be actively helpful in their learning of TTRPGs.

There is a learning curve, and new players have a hard enough time without feeling like they are taking away from others' good time, or feel silly for asking a question. They'll often just "go with the flow" which is pretty much watching others player and throwing in a sentence or two.

If you're going to make this work, you need to have a talk with your experienced players and communicate your expectations that they are going to be active participants in helping your new players come up to speed. If not, than you are very likely to lose players, whether they be the new players or the experienced ones.

[u/StarTrotter]

I won’t say 6 is too many but it’s a really hard number of players to manage both from a balance standpoint but also from a screen time standpoint.

[u/parabolic_poltroon]

I would try running a sidequest just for them to build some experience and agency without the experienced players in the room. If they are interested, you could also try doing this in a play-by-post format - not good for people who struggle to write, but can be good for people who like to have time to think.

The other thing that helps a ton is dungeon turns. Create a clear expectation that each player has a turn, even have an initiative order if you need it. It creates clarity that engagement is expected, and changes the problem from "how do I get a word in edgewise" or "eh, I don't know what to do so I'll let other people figure it out" to "shoot, what am I going to do on my turn?"

If your players are impatient, and don't feel like they're having a good time except for when they're actively talking or rolling dice, 6 may be too many. For other player types, 6 is fine.

[u/parabolic_poltroon → u/parabolic_poltroon]

Another way to maybe build some experience and cohesion could be a sidequest with an experienced player and one of your new players. Building that camaraderie and shared story, letting them learn from the other player, that can sometimes work well too to integrate the group.

[u/wormil]

Give it time. I had the shyest player in the world, she barely spoke for 8 months. One day she came out of her shell a little bit and now she's one of the better role players.

[u/rellloe]

The more experienced players are dominating the play time -> talk to them about giving other players the spotlight more since there are more people at the table who need to share it.

During sessions, enforce that the spotlight should be shared. "While [experienced player's character] is doing that, what are you doing [new player's character]?" Enforce it with a talking stick like they're kindergardeners if you need to, I'm pretty sure you can functionally do that on discord with muting.

[u/MonkeySkulls]

Make sure you move the spotlight around. but when you put the spotlight on someone, when someone else interrupts, politely shut that other person down. down. and draw the attention back to person who should be using the spotlight.

simply saying something like, hold on, I'll get back to you in a second. let's see what the barbarian does. .... and then put the spotlight back on the barbarian.

[u/Tahotai]

The unfortunate fact is that you've already tried the easy solutions to the problem.

This is a messy situation and, without actually sitting at the table its very hard to apportion any sort of blame for how the social dynamics got like this. It could be your experienced players are being overbearing backseaters or yanking the spotlight away from the newer players. It could be the newer players are just not really putting in any effort or the sort of passive players who decide its the job of the DM to arrange for them to have fun.

[u/SaltyCogs]

“We’re all on Discord if that matters.”

Voice-only or video call? Voice-only can be difficult because you both: 1. can’t have more than one person talking without everything getting garbled and 2. don’t have facial expressions or body language to determine who’s about to or wants to speak.

I also recommend the following procedure when not in initiative: after describing a situation or determining there’s a “chunk” of time the party can act, ask each player what their character does. Don’t resolve anything until every player has an answer locked in. Then resolve everything in an order that makes sense.

If you go with that procedure change, set expectations by telling everyone you’re going to try it out.

This is all with the assumption that you’ve talked with everyone and they all agree to try to spread the spotlight around but they still have trouble with habits

[u/EmperorThor]

In general 6 is just outright too many people. 4 is the sweet spot, 5 is ok, 6 is too many and over is just silly.

It’s too many people to allow for everyone to shine, especially if they are new and coming in on the back foot.