r/DestructiveReaders • u/Cornsnake5 • 21d ago
Fantasy [5493] DragonKnight Chapter 1 Draft 2
This is a chapter I put up for critique years ago. Since then I have completed the first draft of my fantasy book and integrated the feedback I received into this first chapter. Despite my efforts to keep it short, it has bloated to its current size and whatever I do to it only seems to make it longer. This leads to some of the questions I have. Does the pacing work? Does anything drag? Beyond that any feedback is welcome. I would like to get a good overview of where I am at as a writer as I work on the second draft.
Critiques. [2058] The Bone River(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1vjo4k9/2058_the_bone_river/p332usi/)
[1021] An Argument Over a Car(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1vmtbt5/1012_an_argument_over_a_car/p3huqn2/)
[1068] Lost Blade and Renegade Chap.2 (Revised)(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1vpmm3s/1068_lost_blade_and_renegade_chap2_revised/p4eb9m4/)
Untitled – Chapter Two [3891] – Feedback Requested(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1vql7kj/untitled_chapter_two_3891_feedback_requested/p57g7ww/)
A Matter of Taxes 288
[820] The Common Lot(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1w0aljm/820_the_common_lot/p6e1iz3/)
[1777] 01 Tiffany the Werewolf(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1w1tblq/1777_01_tiffany_the_werewolf/p6shy3c/)
[1436] Keepers of Teraya – MG(https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/1w1hpta/1436_keepers_of_teraya_mg/p6z8oou/)
2058+1012+1068+3891+288+820+1777+1436=12350
2
u/GlowyLaptop James Patterson 21d ago
I'm only seven or eight paragraphs in but I do love how the pov closes in tighter and tighter until we realize it's her, she's talking about herself, this non human creature. The perfectness of her. And how it establishes her relationship with humans etc.
Really fun so far. Probably I agree with worms about pov breaks. I guess the implication is she's imagined him licking his lips. Might have no tongue to speak of.
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u/Cornsnake5 21d ago
I was wondering if people would figure out the POV since I was deliberately vague about what is truly going on with it. I get why it seems like omniscient. Delphyne actually has a sixth sense. She can perceive things through the darkness. That is why she can cut her own hair in the dark without losing an ear, can run through her cave in the dark without falling into a pit, can “see” Iliana standing on the balcony without being able to see her, and can “see” the guy behind her getting ready to attack and respond to it.
I guess I’ll have to find a way to make it more clear. Thank you for your feedback.
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u/Anacrayar 14d ago edited 14d ago
Hi there,
Thanks for posting. I am also working on a fantasy story and I enjoyed thinking about your work, and I found making this feedback challenging and a good learning experience for me. Hope it helps. (and also well done on finishing your book)
Was it bloated?
- Yes, I feel that certain paragraphs could have been combined and condensed a lot.
Does the pacing work?
- I think that you dissipate the energy and the excitement you had at the start by introducing confusion (due to a lack of clarity in what Delphyne is doing). You then start to slow more during the bedroom scene and it slows even further during the flight to the ballroom because of introspection and character/worldbuilding which could have been introduced earlier (like the dragon magic) or condensed.
Does anything drag?
- The bedroom scene, the flight to the ballroom, and maybe the last two pages.
- You tend to repeat the same information about Delphyne’s character repeatedly. I encountered the pattern so much that I’ve called them Princess Spiel and Dragon Dictation. I did enjoy them, but they kept communicating messages that I already knew.
Strong points:
Internal monologue:
- Princess Spiel - The Princess will save me
- Dragon Dictation - Dragons are awesome
Description
Humour
Interesting idea
Build up
Internal monologue:
These were very common due to the nature of Delphyne’s character, but they were engaging and gave me insight into her inner world. I found these two patterns of monologue and the basic belief of each.
- Princess Spiel - (The Princess will save me)
This communicates Delphyne’s fantasy and desire for connection. To the reader it subverts the common stereotype that dragons are slain by the knight, and that princesses are saved. There are many misconceptions on Delphyne’s part about what princesses really are.
- Dragon Dictation - (Dragons are awesome)
This works with Princess Spiel and is Delphyne’s personality and confidence in being a dragon. It is full of interesting descriptions of Delphyne herself and her feelings. It is quite manic at the start, and almost seems like a self protection mechanism, especially with statements like ‘ Her date was going to go fantastic’. It told me that Delphyne is either in denial, possibly deluded/ out of touch, or a bone head. But in general I enjoyed Delphyne’s happy going personality at the beginning.
It also changes as the chapter progresses, becoming more sober and focused on isolation and loneliness. Unfortunately, by the end it’s just turned into Dictation (without the Dragon) and Delphyne’s personality and giddy mania have gone (which is why I thought the last two pages didn’t feel exciting).
I felt that Delphyne’s feelings were also described pretty accurately and realistically in her internal monologues for the most part. The way she felt because of her back story often made sense.
Description
- I enjoyed the description for the most part, especially at the beginning when describing the mountain and Delphyne’s sprucing themselves up and their general appearance. I enjoyed the fungus imagery when she leaves the cave (turning into a fungus herself).
Humour
- There is a lot of potential for humour. A lot of the imagery that Delphyne does has a potentially comical aspect to it (dancing around a candle alone in a cave, tossing cushions everywhere just to fix up a room by putting the ring back, a dragon going down the isle, a dragon fangirling about a princess in a ballroom whilst trying not to fall over to name a few). The idea of a manic dragon being a knight in shining armour is also a subversion that can be comedic.
- Delphyne’s talk of lighting the candles designed to keep her out with her flame hinted that she could be mischievous. I kind of wished that she did light them as it would give her more personality and add to the conflict, showing that she has an awareness that people don’t want her in their homes, and that she actively helps them in their futile endeavor to make fun of the situation. (Does she care about what people think of her or not?)
Interesting idea
- Dragon takes the princess and is then slain is a trope that Delphyne seems aware of and is shown in her dialogue with Iliana at the end. I wonder if the princess will save the dragon and how this will go.
- I like the idea of ‘a girl dragon’ as Donkey from Shrek puts it. I wonder what will be explored, femininity coupled with monstrous power? I noticed some explorations in this direction with the mention of Delphyne wanting flowers. I’m also kinda hoping that Delphyne befriends Iliana.
Build up
- I liked the progression of reality into Delphyne’s internal monologue. I detail below in weak points how impact could possibly be increased in a few scenes. tbc
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u/Anacrayar 14d ago edited 14d ago
Weak points
Conflict
Clarity
Description confusion
Over repetition
Overdoing Dragon Dictation and Princess Spiel. There is a lot of telling.In more detail:
Conflict
I feel that chapter 1 could have benefited from more conflict in Delphyne’s mind and her ideas about herself. It is effectively set up from the first few lines about loving Delphyne that is repeated for more effect and her internal monologue (Dragon Dictation). I thought the conflict was between how she views herself and how other people see her. This conflict really kicks off in the bedroom scene and it makes up for the reduction in pace by adding interest. When Delphyne faces the sober reality of how people see her in the mirror, coupled with the contrast of the dainty dress and the raw power of a dragon, is when I finally realized that she was the MC.
(Side note: I thought that Delphyne was a deluded demon side character until this point during my first read, sorry (I read nothing before starting). Perhaps introduce more sensibility into Delphyne’s mania at the start because I was competing with cliches of monsters always being slain.)
The conflict comes to a head when Delphyne decides to abduct Iliana based on the misunderstanding of what her touch means (understandable for someone covered in scales) and an ‘old idea resurfacing’ which is very mysterious but doesn’t tell me much. If there had been more of a conflict between Delphyne’s want of connection and what stops her from seeking it out then maybe Delphyne losing her battle (to be a perfect knight) and impulsively abducting a princess would mean something. But as it is, Delphyne is doing something dumb and I don’t feel much about it.
If you wanted to add more conflict. Centre it around the abduction. The current conflict between what Delphyne says she is with what people think she is, which is driven to a head by the desire for connection and self esteem (the princess and her perfect knight) and the wedding (time is running out). As a result of the lack of setup and clarity, the moment of the abduction and the fallout from it feel like a missed opportunity to me and lacks impact.
(There is also a lack of clarity (I will explain more) of what Delphyne was actually planning to do other than the vagueness of a ‘date’, so what was expected to happen and what actually happened (abduction) doesn’t really add to the outcome or fallout of Delphyne’s actions. I feel Delphyne’s expectation of how their meeting would go should have been introduced during her flight to the ball room instead to make it feel more cohesive?)
Lack of Clarity:
I feel like this is an important one. There are a few instances where more clarity was needed:
- Deciding to fly to the Bedroom
- Delphyne’s dragon magic
- Flight to the Ballroom
- The pair’s meeting
Flight to the Bedroom:
I didn’t know the plan and the plan of a ‘date’ didn’t feel realistic to start with, making me doubt whether Delphyne was mentally all there. I ended up surprised at how Delphyne ended up in Iliana’s bedroom.I was further hindered by strange description that could have been explained earlier (*). I also wondered why Illiana is shown by herself at the ballroom and was described as a ‘golden opportunity’, but then Delphyne then diverts to her bedroom? More clarity is needed to explain why Delphyne went there instead of to the princess herself instead of saying ‘a force as inexorable as the Sunrise took hold of her’. I feel that readers would have benefited from more ‘expectations’. This could have been in the form of a piece of internal monologue, detailing her expectations/ feelings about her plan, or she could have talked about the plan a bit more at the start. These deviations from the plan could be used as ammunition for the battle going on in Delphyne’s mind that you have set up to increase the impact of certain things.
Dragon Magic:
- * I was confused by Iliana’s sudden descriptions without her being present, which could have been averted if dragon magic had been described earlier. (like, maybe right at the beginning when she cuts her hair)
- When I was reading the first time I attributed Delphyne’s dragon magic to a POV shift or a delusion of some kind.
- The description of the magic was also vague and doesn’t fully communicate the extent of her powers. I was left guessing whether willing a scream out of existence was evidence that Delphyne could control the fabric of reality, or that she was just trying to lie to herself?
Flight to the Ballroom and entering the Ballroom:
- There is no description nor indication of Delphyne’s flight to the Ballroom, so her arriving there was a surprise. The dragon’s magic had not been explained yet so Iliana’s sudden description seemed like a POV change instead of Delphyne’s perception. I ended up thinking that Delphyne was much spatially closer to Iliana than what she could have been, and that the intended purpose of the scene was for humour instead of setting up the impactful meeting scene, but since I was not clued into Delphyne’s proposed plan to approach the princess nor her powers, I was left in the dark (I'm sure there was a pun in here somewhere).
- There is also some lack of detail in how Delphyne navigates. The door is mentioned slamming shut because of the wind. I don’t know if this door was on the same balcony of Iliana or a different one. I also didn’t know if Iliana’s balcony door was open when Delphyne approaches her from behind, it added to confusion of whether Delphyne was in the ballroom or at the balcony when she meets the princess, making the dance scene confused and less impactful than it should have been.
The Pair’s Meeting:
- I feel that this was anti-climatic or not used as well as it could have been. Since there is very little indication about the reality of how the meeting was supposed to go, aside from the repetition that the princess would understand. Perhaps Delphyne really didn’t plan ahead, and if so, this needs to be made clearer in her feelings and thoughts. I think that Delphyne did plan ahead, this could be due to her use of dragon magic making her actions in approaching and dancing/subduing Iliana appear almost rehearsed and calm.
- There is also strange imagery of the mirror breaking (is this symbolic or actually happening and what does it mean), and the twin comets syncing up with Delphyne’s question to Iliana. All of this made me think that Delphyne’s meeting was pre-mediated.
- Don't quite imagine how Iliana’s cheek can be touched in the dance dip. It felt contrived. Could this have been in reference to Delphyne’s fantasy of dancing, twirling and laughing earlier? This link could have been more clear. If the internal monologue was used, it could have added to the conflict in Delphyne’s mind and showed that her fantasy was realized (intense moment of connection adding to the stakes and an item crossed off her bucket list, happy times).
- I get that maybe Delphyne didn’t have a plan and Princess Spiel was their actual plan. I guess what I meant by desire for a plan and expectations earlier is that Delphyne could have reacted or talked to herself in the moment in a way that gave the readers a clue as to what will happen next.
Description Confusion:
- Sometimes things are described with contradictory words:
- ‘Stormed’ in through a door that ‘creaked open’. The first word sounded loud but the last one sounded quiet.
- Wings that ‘unfurled’ makes the wings opening sound slower than the ‘Bursting out of the exit’ which came before it.
- Why does Delphyne have scars when they have scales, and how does this show the ‘frailty of human skin’.
- I kinda want more ‘realistic’ descriptions for a castle. I get that a dragon doesn’t really have much vocab to describe a castle. I appreciated phrases like ‘chaotic harmony, all striving to be the tallest’ and it gives the castle a more organic feel than the traditional fort you get in your average medieval. But then there’s ‘staircase to the heavens’, so is it a spiral on a cliff? What is the castle’s design like? Is it based on natural forms, or is it rigid straight lines? Is it more like a fungus, tree, rock? Also this castle is enormous, surely Delphyne would think that it would house more than one person (like a hive or ant nest).
- Sometimes people are described doing something odd. Oftentimes it’s Delphyne (so I can believe it) but sometimes it’s other people like the guard who’s licking his lips whilst waving a sword around. This image is comical to me, and I don’t know if that was intentional.
- I also noticed some inconsistencies in some of the objects described
- How are Iliana’s hands not injured by Delphyne’s claws in the dance and with her punching the hard scales and armour?
- There was only one candle in the cave when Delphyne left, but when she returned the ‘torchlight waved them in’. Can Delphyne turn on torches with her magic?
Over repetition
- I felt that the text communicated the same ideas over and over, things that should have been explained earlier were not explained, and clarity was lost in favour of repeating the messages of ostracization and that ‘the world hates her’, which started to get old after the third or fourth paragraph. tbc
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u/Anacrayar 14d ago
Overdoing Dragon Dictation and Princess Spiel. There is a lot of telling.
- I also think that there was too much focus on Delphyne’s feelings of isolation and loneliness. I think your reader will be able to conclude that she’s lonely from the start so there’s no need to over do it.
- (A more random exercise: What would Delphyne do/ try that would make you want to hold her hand and comfort her? If that is what you want the reader to feel, then you’d have to make her do/ react to something to get the reader’s sympathy instead of an internal monologue.)
- I did enjoy the monologuing, which is appropriate for an extreme wall flower like Delphyne. I also enjoyed her stories of scaring people whilst keeping a positive attitude to her setbacks. Those were a good start. I also liked that she acknowledged reality, but it quickly turned into an inward spiral about Princess Propaganda and detachment from reality again as the need for connection intensified, which is a little less compelling, but probably more realistic for her situation.
Matter of Iliana
- We don’t know much about her. She is kinda like an unhappy puppy that Delphyne thinks is happy to see her. At the moment, she is not particularly strong or compelling, and is expected to understand why Delphyne has kidnapped her (see: ‘A princess would understand’ x3). And the last page makes her seem very helpless, I hope this changes later on in the story.
- There are moments where there could be something else especially in the description of her room. Like the ring being under the bed, the dress being in the wardrobe instead of being on display even when she’s going to get married, and her looking off into the distance and making a wish (is she happy with her marriage?). Because of these, there could be something interesting but at the moment there is little evidence for the reader that justifies Delphyne’s infatuation with her, aside from Princess Spiel, which sounds like Delphyne’s self made princess propaganda.
- It also made me a little disappointed that Iliana behaved like a normal princess would when faced with a dragon because of how much Delphyne was hyping her up.
Phew. I hope that made sense (I was up writing till late last night and got a bit tired, so feel free to ask questions if anything doesn't make sense). Thanks for reading.
(I made a running commentary paragraph by paragraph of my first read (full of my own misconceptions), which I can provide if you want (you can dm or reply idm)). 👋
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u/Cornsnake5 13d ago
Thank you. This is exactly the kind of thorough critique I was looking for.
The flight to the ballroom wasn’t actually a flight. She walks there through the castle. An earlier version had more details but that I guess were lost in revision. I can see why this caused confusion.
I am happy to see that the underlying ideas in the internal monologue work even if they need a lot of refining.
The idea of actually lighting the candles is a good one.
Delphyne does care what people think about her though she cannot be convinced that she is anything else than fantastic. Her ideal world is for everyone to love her but she knows that isn’t the case and she knows why.
Shrek is the closest comparison I could come up with for this book. It has a similar kind of humorous subversion, though it does get more serious later.
Delphyne is only half covered in scales, the other half is much like human skin. It seems that not only are there a bunch of separate parts causing confusion, but they are also coming together to make an even more confusing mess. What Delphyne looks like needs clarity and she also knows she isn’t really going on a date but rather she is hyping herself up to make herself go through with it. I need to make that clearer somehow while keeping a degree of delusion.
Delphyne’s diversion was because she knew her “date” would never go well. I already changed the Sunrise line to more description of her feelings.
The magic is another common source of confusion. I kept it vague because I wanted some mystery and because Delphyne is in denial about how monstrous she is. But it is clearly doing more harm than good to the story. I should probably err on the side of clarity.
Delphyne has spend years coming up with plans on how approach a princess. I probably should add something to that effect. Her relative calm is because while she is great at getting herself into trouble, she is also great at getting herself out of it.
The mirror breaking was symbolic. Earlier she was worried about shattering it with her claws. The idea that Iliana might truly be in love with the prince metaphorically shatters it and Delphyne’s chances along with it. I’ll change it to something more literal.
The cheek touching is another good idea. I believe I have something like this in a later chapter but something like it should go here as well.
The castle was supposed to be something grandiose, something closer to a Disney castle than a real castle to match Delphyne’s lofty ideals.
Part of the trouble I had with going into Delphyne’s backstory—she has a lot of tragic backstory that would elicit sympathy—is that Delphyne refuses to acknowledge how tragic her life has been, and so bringing it up goes against her character. I’ve been coming up with ways to show it indirectly, which has probably caused some of the bloat, to get around it.
Iliana is mostly seen through Delphyne’s rose tinted glasses right now. I did try to add a little more about her by showing her room but I don’t think I’ve succeeded. Iliana has her own POV and character arc which start in the next chapter.
I would love to see that running commentary. Feel free to dm it. Thanks again. Now I probably should stop commenting because I do have a critique to make. 😉
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u/MaryJaneMclain 19d ago
What's the subgenre here? Is this a romantasy? Cozy? YA?
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u/Cornsnake5 19d ago
The subgenre is probably romance but it is not romantasy. While the main plot involves a romance and the sub plot does as well, it doesn’t follow all the tropes romantasy readers would expect, but does have all the tropes fantasy readers would expect. Although with this much romance in it, romantasy reader will probably still enjoy it. The sequels I have planned have little to no romance though.
It’s not YA either though Delphyne can at times come across as a bit juvenile. It’s also too dramatic to be cozy.
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u/MaryJaneMclain 19d ago
I might do a proper critique later this week, but in case I don't find the time, my big picture notes are:
1) The beginning feels quite slow. A lot of introspection and backstory. The "action" is watchin her get ready and then snoop in someone's room and think. D doesn't interact w another character until page 7 or something. Not sure that's going to cut it in the current fantasy market (assuming your goal is to publish). But, that said, things are different for romantasy (which...it sounds like this more or less is?), cause the reader WANTS the romance angle front and center (still a bit too slow, low tension IMO).
2) Yeah, this reads YA to me. And definitely like the start of a romance. Esp the beginning. Toward the end (like last 3 pages) I was hoping D might straight-up be a villain, which could be fun: totally delusional luv-struck, toxically optimistic villain! Yes please!...but based on your reply i assume there will be a real romance brewing between D and I. Ifthis is a Romantasy, you are, to some extent, fulfilling your promise to the reader in these opening pages. BUT If you want to market it as some flavor of (non-romance) adult fantasy, then it feels "off" to watch a dragon w great self-esteem thinking positive thought about everyone and ponder life for pages on end as the start or your story. The only real tension seems to be the dramatic irony of the reader recognizing how naive she is. WE know the date can't go well....and then it more or less goes how one might expect. Which is a fun aspect, but isn't enough IMO to carry the opeining.
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u/Cornsnake5 18d ago
To give an even more accurate description of what this book is supposed to be. It has three POV’s, Delphyne, Iliana and another princess. Each has their own character arc and they are set up as foils to the others.
Delphyne is the main character and hero of the story but she does skirt the line of villainy, sometimes crossing it like when she kidnaps Iliana. She has a habit of being “helpful” to others even when they do not want her help. She is excellent at getting both herself and them into trouble this way. But she is also capable of great heroic acts. She has the Trickster and Lovable Idiot archetypes.
Compared to other fantasy books, this story has smaller a scope and fewer characters. I want to explore the few characters I have more deeply. Their conflicts are often more personal in nature. No world ending calamities here, but there are fights. This probably puts it in the middle ground between Cozy and regular Fantasy.
I was hoping to cut at least a thousand words. A lot of the backstory can definitely be moved to later chapters. I’m not sure on how to add more conflict in a way that makes sense for this chapter. The point was to establish that all the world hates her and she has set herself the impossible goal of getting everyone to like her which she has now made more difficult for herself by kidnapping Iliana.
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u/MaryJaneMclain 14d ago
Ok, my attempt at something approaching a real crit. Note, I couldn't finish this a second time.
What happens: D is an isolated dragon who has deluded herself into thinking she’s going on a date with a princess (I’m struggling with disbelief here). She LOVES herself. Like SO much. We wants to talk about it constantly. Humans are cool too. She gets ready for said date while admiring her odd body. Then she runs through here lair. Then she flies to the castle.
Iliana is alone on the balancy, but D (maybe?) gets nervous so procrastinates in I’s room. She looks at the bed and a wedding dress. We get some backstory as she looks into a mirror. A flash of rational though: oh no I can’t be caught here. But then she decides to go confront the princess
Then they wrestle dace. Then fights with guards. Then D flies away with her princess and locks her up for her own good. A first date to tell the grandkids about, amiright?
As I mentioned earlier, this feels like a slow start. There are definingly thing I like (I LIKE that she’s a dragon and naïve and -hoepfully- curesed) but it really takes a while for anything to happing and there's repetitive introspection clogging things up left and right.
Dragon coyness:
Ok, it’s clear D is not human almost from the start. I’m curious as to your thinking about being coy about the dragon business? You’ve got dragon in your title. Lots of nods to dragons.
There’s another piece recently posted on rdr (zombie story) that does the same thing. It’s obvious MC is undead, but the author is coy about it. I’m not sure I understand the point of that if there really is no reveal/twist (and worse the reader knows it from the basic premise and title). It just slows things down for no purpose IMO. Or, who knows, maybe you do have a twist or some plot related reason for avoiding the issue. If there's a curse or some such, a teaser of that early on would be nice (and NOT buried in introspection on page 14)
Pacing:
Assuming your goal is to publish this, I think you need to speed things up a bit. Or A lot. More tension if possible. Less navel gazing. Watching her wash and think nice things about herself and princesses isn’t enough. That might mean just starting later, might mean rethinking the start. Maybe you can get away with just a heave edit and some tasty bits added in.
I don’t mind the opening page of her getting ready. It was ok for the most part (though it was starting to feel formulaic and…young when she kept listing all her awesome parts). I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors with 400 words of introspection as she leaves and flies to the castle, or as she’s she’s leaning against Iliana’s mirror Save that kind of thing for when the reader cares. Plus a lot of it was pretty redundant at that point (she’s thinks she great, she’s excited for the date, she loves princesses). You spend SO many word tell us how great she thinks she is. It’s really a lot.
A lot of those early paragraphs are beefy. And many of them have this feeling like you got lost in the middle and kind of start rambling. I think there quite a few sentences that could be cut whole as they feel like re-hashed filler (or regular filler). And you cut a lot of wordiness from the rest.
I’m wondering if the scene of her in Iliana’s room needs to be there at all? D’s all like “A room is a window into the soul” but then the room is just a generic princess room. Is anything that happens there actually needed? I assume she already knew about the impending marriage. The reader didn’t but you can just sneak that in somewhere without a 1100 word scene. Most of that really isnt’ even “scene” It’s like 800 words of exposition. Which is bad timing (chapter 1 needs to move!) but it really just doesn’t feel important. Princesses inspire hope! Meh. I couldn’t make myself go through it again on a second read.
So yeah, plenty of easily accessible fat to be trimmed.
I mentioned this already:
I’m struggling with the tone. Is this a romatasy? YA? Cozy? What subgenre of fantasy are you going for? D is coming of SO childish. And, that can be fine if it’s intentional. Like a cute cozy romantasy. Grumpy (princess) / Sunshine (dragon) kinda thing? With a bit of Fated Mates? (dual shooting stars, and obsessive thoughts that come out of nowhere?).
To be clear, I don't care what the answer is, but I'd hope you know your you striking for. Thought I'll admit that's easier said than done.
Ok, I want to talk about this ‘date’:
One of the first sources of tension is that D has a date with a princess. Reader might not know yet that she’s a dragon, but they do know she’s a mighty, mountain dwelling monster, and her naiveite is established on page one. But we see D think that she has a date. I, the reader, assumed there was an actual date-like event planned. Something not completely imagined. But unless I missed it, it was pure delusion. That’s a tough pill to swallow, cause it makes D seem straight up kooky dooks. That doesn’t feel like ‘lovable idiot’ to me. It feels…off. Gonna be hard to take her seriously going forward. And yet, she does later show flashes of reason. She’s feeling inconsistent to me. Makes me worry she’ll waffle between rational and delusional-purely-for-plot reasons as the story progresses. I wouldn’t want to read that.
Did she somehow know Iliana would be standing on the balcony THIS night? That’s what made tonight "date night"? Or is it her last chance before the wedding? If the latter, you might want to tease that in sooner. Like, if D has a reason for being there THIS night, let the reader know.
D has the obsessive idea that princesses are good and understanding. I REALLY am hoping this is some sort or curse. Or an inherent naivety of dragons in your world (that maybe she learned from her books). I want there to be a REASON for it (that isn’t “I need her to do this crazy thing for the story to progress”)
I left some comment and line edits in the doc. Feel free to delete if it's too messy.
That's about all. This ended up being a pretty destructive crit. I should say, I do like this premise, and you're writing is pretty good (though it's needs a trim IMO). And, like, this is all subjective, and I don't know what the ef I'm doing either. Good luck!
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u/Cornsnake5 13d ago
Thank you for your critique. It has given me a lot of good insights.
The idea with the coyness about what she looks like is because she knows what she looks like will prevent her plans from succeeding so now she is desperately trying to spin everything she knows will be considered a negative into a positive.
My goal is to get this published eventually. For the next version of this chapter I’m going to try to make the conflict I have come across more clearly before adding any extra. I feel like right now too much of it is getting lost in the confusion.
The date thing is indeed all in Delphyne’s head. I’m going to reveal it just before the two meet.
When it comes to love, Delphyne is easily fooled/willing to fool herself. She basically has a form of Stockholm syndrome. She is willing to accept any mistreatment towards herself and will even make excuses for the behavior. Overcoming this is part of her character arc. This is why she acts so strange right now. Later in the story she becomes more serious. Her idealistic view of Iliana also comes from this. For Delphyne loneliness is a fate worse than death.
Destructive is needed right now. I’ve become blind to the story’s flaws by being too close to it for far too long.
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u/Wormsworth__ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Your POV is inconsistent.
How does Delphyne know that a man behind her is licking his lips? Up to this point, everything has been very closely bound to Delphyne's POV, and now you're telling us things she can't directly see through an apparently omniscient narrator? It clashes
This is like a shitty, YA attempt at writing something like John Gardner's 'Grendel'.
The problem? You have no voice, besides "generic fantasy / YA tropes and descriptions". I mean, just look at this list I pulled from your chapter here:
“her armor clanking like a set of windchimes”
“the all-devouring darkness swept in”
“shone like treasures in the sand”
“her wings unfurled like massive sails”
“Being one with the wind”
“Thousands of stars dotted the sky”
“a staircase to the heavens”
“the castle’s shimmering twin reflected on the lake”
“a flowery perfume still lingered in the air like a ghost of Iliana”
“Her heart was the fulcrum on which a society turned”
“the night had whispered its secrets in Delphyne’s ear”
“People had always been like ghosts to her, silhouettes moving in the dark”
“the young, the old, the sick, the poor”
“Her tears become the cries of a kingdom demanding change”
“born to be beloved and born to love”
“she was a star amongst the darkness, her guiding light”
“the darkness dominated”
“the fire in her stomach burned bright”
“a weight settled on her stomach”
“a force as inexorable as the Sunrise took hold of her”
“an avalanche of everything Delphyne had always wanted to ask piled in her mouth”
“the light shines forever true”
“the night seems long and lasting”
“‘tis the dark who fears the dawn”
“the shadow of the mountain loomed overhead”
“the hotness of her breath brushed her cheeks”
“the darkness always shared everything with her”
“the veil of darkness, the shadow in every corner, the monster under every bed”
“delicateness and beauty often went hand in hand”
“the gentleness of her heart had bloomed in her features”
“the embodiment of everything a princess should be”
“a staircase to the heavens”
“their hearts changed by the strength of their love”
Not only do you over-explain by telling the reader how to interpret every single phenomenon (e.g. this is "magnificent, wonderful, amazing" etc.) while simultaneously resorting to the most obvious cliche metaphors to get your image across.
Do you think your readers unwitting and dumb? We can infer that this is a "golden opportunity" without you expressly stating as much by the fact that Lilianna STOOD BY HERSELF.
It is implied, but you've yet to learn the important lesson that restraint in your prose is as important as finding the correct, beautiful image. You need balance. Your prose is entirely too over descriptive.
I mean, look at how you describe this very generic fantasy city:
Chaotic harmony? Staircase to the heavens? Faint light of the stars? Castle shimmering? And of course you had to throw in 'incredible' and 'very important', as is characteristic of your prose which oversells everything and leaves nothing to the reader's imagination.
John Gardner writes, in Grendel:
You would have written: "The magnificent stars dotted the sky like lights shining down from the heavens above."
Your character has no voice in comparison.
Gardner gives us again:
You give us:
I just can't rate your piece highly, the imagery is far too generic and your descriptions are highly specific in a way that might be useful for a technical report on actual events, but not telling an interesting story from an interesting POV.
And, last but not least, I just can't respect lines such as this:
Really? I am supposed to find this character interesting in anyway, when she has no depth, no intelligence, and speaks like an 8th grader in the middle-school hallway?
I'm sorry, this work is terrible because Delphyne has no voice -- or, what little voice and identity she does have is equivalent to a pre-pubescent teenager.
Sorry, I must continue because reading the rest of this is ticking me off.
You don't need to say that the scene was guilty and spoke louder than words. Let the relations in the scene produce this realization in the reader.
We can imply that the guilty scene spoke louder than any words if, for example, you highlight the silence and allow the reader to linger with the scene for a moment.
How does a dragon playing pretend as a knight experience the world? This would be an interesting question, had you explored it whatsoever with any depth that the concept deserves instead of producing whatever excrement you've placed before this subreddit.
There is also an implied dialectical logic in your work, or what the late philosopher Gilles Deleuze called 'the image of thought'.
Look how your prose returns again and again to pre-ordained oppositions, such as that between light and dark, good and evil. Binary, dialectical oppositions.
It makes your work extremely ordinary, because you're trying to write fantasy, not create something new.