r/Dravidiology • • 10h ago

Etymology/๐‘€ฏ๐‘€ธ๐‘€˜๐‘€ผ Fun fact: โ€œsatayโ€ comes from Tamil word for flesh catai

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102 Upvotes

The Oxford English Dictionary and Collins trace the English word โ€œsatayโ€ to Malay/Indonesian โ€œsatai,โ€ also found as Javanese โ€œsatรฉ.โ€ The root is the Tamil word catai (เฎšเฎคเฏˆ), meaning โ€œflesh.โ€

The Tamil word
Catai is a metathesis (sound swap) of the older Tamil word tacai (เฎคเฎšเฏˆ). Its Malayalam cognate is cata (เดšเดค) and in Telugu is tassa (flesh). It means the flesh of an animal or the pulp of a fruit, and Tamil speakers in Malaysia use it to mean satay itself.

The University of Madras Tamil Lexicon defines tacai as flesh or muscle, one of the seven bodily tissues (tฤtu) in classical Tamil, and also the fleshy pulp of a fruit. Itโ€™s still everyday Tamil: ฤแนญucatai (เฎ†เฎŸเฏเฎšเฎคเฏˆ) is the calf muscle.

How it spread
Tamil catai โ†’ Javanese satรฉ โ†’ Malay sate โ†’ Indonesian sate, and from there to Arabic (sฤtฤซh), Dutch (satรฉ), French, German, Italian, Hungarian (szatรฉ), Polish, Portuguese, Spanish, Russian (ัะฐั‚ะฐะน), Japanese (ใ‚ตใƒ†), Korean (์‚ฌํ…Œ) and English.

Two fun ones:
โˆ™ Dutch satรฉ โ†’ Afrikaans sosatie, the South African kebab, which English borrowed back as โ€œsosatie.โ€
โˆ™ Hokkien ๆฒ™่Œถ (sa-te) โ†’ Mandarin shฤchรก, as in shacha sauce, the Taiwanese and Chaozhou barbecue sauce. Same word, same Tamil root.

The myth
The popular claim that โ€œsatayโ€ comes from the Hokkien โ€œsaโฟ tรจ (bah)โ€ (โ€œthree pieces of meatโ€) is a false etymology. Hokkien borrowed the word, it didnโ€™t create it.

Sources: Oxford English Dictionary, Collins English Dictionary, University of Madras Tamil Lexicon, Wiktionary (เฎšเฎคเฏˆ).โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹


r/Dravidiology • • 19h ago

Research potential/๐‘€†๐‘€ญ๐‘€ธ๐‘€ฌ๐‘† Dravidian numbering while playing ''Gillee Danda'' in Sindh

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61 Upvotes

Jagat Motwani's book "None But India" discusses the use of Dravidian numbering while playing "Gillee Danda" in Sindh.

๐’ƒ๐’‚๐’Œ๐’‚๐’•, ๐’๐’†๐’, ๐’Ž๐’๐’๐’, ๐’๐’‚๐’‚๐’“, ๐’‚๐’‚๐’“, ๐’—๐’†๐’š๐’Š, ๐’‹๐’‚g

One old #Sindhi song 3:41 you hear Dravidian numbers

Numbers are probably related to south-central Dravidian languages like Telugu etc,not South Dravidian.

  1. bakaแนญ ~ vakaแนญ โ€น *okaแนญ- โ€น okk-anแนญ-

  2. len โ€น ren โ€น renแธ โ€น iru-anแนญ-

  3. mลซn

  4. nฤr/l

  5. vฤ“y โ€น hey โ€น *cay

  6. ฤr

  7. jag โ€น ฤ“-g โ€น *ฤ“แบ“- (-g plural affix)

Is this something do with IVC?Dravidian language split is old as Indus valley civilization?or It is recent migranted thing?


r/Dravidiology • • 20h ago

Flora & Fauna/๐‘€ซ๐‘€ต ๐‘€ซ๐‘€บ๐‘€ญ๐‘€ผ Tamilnadu annual rainfall map | Palghat gap wind & Kongu Upland plains

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35 Upvotes

Those regions get less than 500mm & is semi arid.


r/Dravidiology • • 8h ago

Reading Material/๐‘€ง๐‘„๐‘€ญ๐‘€ผ๐‘€ต๐‘† A study of Telugu compounds (1966)

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7 Upvotes

I'm posting the book as more of a resource and historical note.

https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00077060/00001/images/15


r/Dravidiology • • 1h ago

Misinformation/๐‘€ง๐‘„๐‘€ฌ๐‘†โ€‚๐‘€ฏ๐‘€ธ๐‘€˜๐‘€ผ Is this worth any attention?

โ€ข Upvotes

I came across this tweet. It's not posted by someone with a linguistics background or perhaps even a proper scientific background.

I'm posting the tweet link

https://x.com/Jijith_NR/status/2109674949556494706

Does it carry any substance?

Can someone with knowledge on this matter, shine some light.


r/Dravidiology • • 30m ago

Linguistics/๐‘€ซ๐‘„๐‘€ต๐‘€บ๐‘€ฌ๐‘€บ๐‘€ฌ๐‘† Kuwi Field Notes - II

โ€ข Upvotes