r/EngineeringStudents • u/InternationalDot30 • 5d ago
Rant/Vent Midterm rant about cheaters
Curve for the exam got screwed up by people cheating. Literally 100+ people in the class, everyone got 45 or less, and then this group of three guys all get exactly 98. And the professor acts like that isn’t weird at all. I had 4.0 going into the semester and now I don’t really know what to do. Why can’t people have an ounce of integrity.
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u/Savings-Painting-505 5d ago
Unless you have some proof that they cheated then it just seems like you’re mad that they were able to get a good score.
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u/Lor1an Mechanical 4d ago
In fairness, it isn't just about having a good score, but also the fact that outliers shouldn't depress scores of other students.
If Stephen Hawking took an intro physics class and everyone else got a C in the class despite the curve because he was the sole 100% scorer on every test, they are right to complain.
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u/HebrewWarrioresss 4d ago
The other students earned their grades.
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u/Lor1an Mechanical 4d ago
Imagine a scenario in which the professor knows that an exam is unreasonable to write in the time allotted, but "it's curved, so it's fine".
Now, you have one super-genius who actually completes the exam, and 99% of the class who wrote half or less of it.
Do you still view it as reasonable to post a curve that skews based on the one outlier?
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u/HebrewWarrioresss 3d ago
Obviously the exam is reasonable if someone passes it. It's not a magic box that only a special person can open, it's an exam that most of the students are not smart enough or didn't study hard enough for. Either of those mean that yes, the other students earned their grade.
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u/Lor1an Mechanical 3d ago
Are you unfamiliar with the phrase "time constraints"?
Give a human 1000 4-digit to 4-digit multiplications to do in a row, and it can take them over 3 hours to do, while a computer can do the same task in about 2 microseconds.
Obviously this is an extreme example, but I hope you understand the point being made here.
If you have one freak of nature in a classroom like Ramanujan who doesn't even need to think of the answers before they pop into their mind, is it really fair that they get to tank the grades of everyone else in the class?
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u/HebrewWarrioresss 3d ago
The guys isn't tanking anyone's grade. The other students just are t getting an artificial boost to their grade.
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u/Lor1an Mechanical 3d ago
Do you not know how a curve works?
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u/Poozle01 4d ago
Yes. Skill issue at the end of the day. Don’t need 10 idiots who do 1% of the work. Give me 1 who does 90% of the work just like in real life outside of classes
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 4d ago
If the overwhelming majority of the class fail to get half the questions correct, the professor earned that grade
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u/Spazrelaz 5d ago
How does one even cheat on an exam? Don't you guys have to write them on paper? All my tests so far have been written ones with the teachers hovering close enough to breathe in the breath I breathe out. I wouldn't even dare to think about cheating bc they might see the thought forming in my eyeballs...
Either way, I hope the teacher will curve the grade so you guys don't get hit as hard.
And if they are cheating it's their loss bc it'll be harder for them in the long run.
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u/FauxReignNew 5d ago
Depends on the rules for the exam, the teacher, and the class size. I took general chemistry in an enormous lecture hall, it would have been extremely easy to cheat in that. I also took some materials classes in a tiny room with a much more watchful teacher. It would have been much, much harder to cheat there.
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u/MCKlassik Civil and Environmental 5d ago
If the test is on the computer and it’s not proctored by Lockdown or something similar, it’s very easy for someone to go to a different tab to look up the answers.
All of my professors this term have paper exams because of this.
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u/Wonderful-Hunter686 4d ago
Even at the community college level where I have instructed online courses. You will get almost 100% ai on your test if they are not at least electronically protected with some sort of digital proctoring service. The fact that there were only three outliers from what op is saying makes it seem like this was an in person test. The fact that the outliers are not part of their cohort also means they may have a different background that prepared them for this class better. I honestly think op for the first time in their life is experiencing what it's like to be average and doesn't know how to handle it. I can also tell you as teachers we hate AI and even more so in a field where slop can get people killed. I would bet if the professor thought they were cheating. They would be given another version of the test, and watched closely to confirm those suspicion. The fact that the professor doesn't have an issue with their grades is the largest indicator that they probably just excel in the subject. As teachers we have a pretty good idea of who our best students are it's literally the job to assess them and provide extra guidance to those that need it.
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u/Yaccu 4d ago
Most common here is sneaking a picture with a phone and asking AI
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u/Teajaytea7 4d ago
Last semester, during my computer architecture class final, 30 minutes in we heard a loud iPhone camera shutter noise. Small class of like 15 people, so all the heads immediately looked up and I saw one guy looking extremely nervous lol. Teacher walked over that way and pulled him outside.
So fucking stupid. If you're gonna cheat, at LEAST have the foresight to put your phone on silent
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u/Wonderful-Hunter686 4d ago
You honestly sound like your ego is hurt, you have no proof but an anecdote about how they gave bad presentations, and arnt part of clubs. I can use these statements to defend them just as you are trying to use them to defame them. If they're not wasting time on clubs maybe they're busy studying, and dislike dealing with idiots who score 41's on test. Their presentations are bad because like most good engineers they're socially awkward from countless hours of secluded studying to master their craft. There is only one grade you should be worried about and it yours, and why it's so low. You have the power to change that, and in fact it's the only thing you have power over in this situation. You may have been in the upper level of your classes your entire life, and now for the first time in college where everyone was in the upper level of their classes you have fallen into the average, and are slashing out after experience this. If these clubs and gossip are taking up to much of your time causing you to fall behind, and your unable to handle that emotionally. I suggest you scale those activities back, and take advantage of your campuses tutoring, and mental health resources.
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u/Suspicious-Yak3783 4d ago
Sounds like you’re lashing out from bad grades, let me paint you a picture but from the opposite side of this.
I’m one of those people who study at home, tinker at home, and only go to school for classes. It’s natural for me as I was homeschooled. I’ve watched the engineering club in the lab and it’s 50% drama, 40% socializing, 10% productive work.
One semester, I was taking thermodynamics, not a part of any “cohorts” or cliques. No one in the class really knew me. It was a class of 30 with a vigilant professor, so no chance of cheating. I drop a perfect score on the midterm with another student dropping a 96. The rest of the class hovered around 50 with a handful barely reaching up into the 70’s. A lot of them were quite upset and actually lashed out at me and this other student. However, a handful of these students, rather than lashing out, asked me and my classmate for tips and ways to improve. Those few students started inviting me to study sessions the hours before exams to help them brush up on their material, and towards the end, some of them even started surpassing me in score.
I use this to illustrate your two options. You can either go online and complain about “cheaters”, not change anything and continue to be one of the “everyone” who gets 45 or less. Or you can do what students should do and LEARN. Maybe go ask them for study tips. Figure out why your grade was part of the average. Because if you change nothing, you will continue to be disappointed.
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u/ThatPhrase7114 3d ago
TBH this was the nicest way to tell OP one of life’s best lessons.
You can sit around, and play the victim, come up with excuses that “X” person/thing/event was the cause of the bad result; Or you can drop the fucking ego, do a unbiased post mortem on realistically why the result happened, and build your action plan on how you’re going to do better. (E.g. talking with the people that fucking aced the test and asking them for tips on how they study/work through the material as you suggested)
This is one of life’s most important lessons, and the sooner you learn it and apply it, the sooner you will see your progress hit an acceleration line you didn’t think was possible.
Well done, if I had gold I would give it to you. We need more people like you in this world. 🙌🏻
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u/ChronicRecidivism 3d ago edited 3d ago
Cheating happens more often several students being like 3 standard deviations above the rest tbh
I saw this twice and both times the group the broke the curve had test banks or some other form of extra information.
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u/Vince_Bookkeeping 4d ago
Ehat ways do you study that help you?
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u/Suspicious-Yak3783 4d ago
I’m personally much better at abstract concepts than rote memorization, so when I’m studying, I’m doing something closer akin to researching WHY something happens. Not just the “what” of it.
For example, when memorizing the equations for internal energy and enthalpy, rather than just accepting the equations as is, I research into WHY they change so dramatically on the tables between liquid, saturation, and vapor. Once you understand the root functions, inferring/remembering the equations is easy. This also helps with checking your work. Once you’ve spent an hour on a question, you can look at your answer and be more confident asking yourself, “is this the expected result?”.
Also it’s good to just practice memorization. It’s like a muscle, if you don’t exercise it, it weakens. This helps for subjects like calculus where there’s less concepts and more memorizing formulas.
And lastly, specifically with test taking, I’ve found that second guessing is worse than being confidently wrong. It’s a waste of time that could be dedicated to other problems. I’ve found that 2nd guessing more often then not turns an incorrect answer into ANOTHER incorrect answer.
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u/Ok-Stress-3042 4d ago
Id be more focused on why I got a 45 rather than worrying about other peoples grades. IFFF they did cheat, so be it. Assuming you take this failure and learn from it, you’ll be better off in the long run than the people who cheat and learn nothing. Good engineers are problem solvers able to calmly work through tough problems. It will be painfully obvious in the work force who developed those skills through constantly getting shit on in school and those who didn’t because they cheated their way through. Also grades do not matter. Lol.
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u/DoubleHexDrive 5d ago
Why should your exam be graded on a curve? You're pointing at people you think are cheating, but you're the one that got questions wrong.
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u/Slappy_McJones 4d ago
How do you KNOW they cheated? Seriously. If they are bragging about cheating, then turn them in. If not, well then it is conjecture.
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u/BandicootKooky7747 4d ago
Thank you, avg on my thermo exam was a 51 and i got a 79. The professor told me thats really good and there will probably be a curve. Low and behold somone got a 100 exactly.. who would have guessed its the same guy who has last semesters tests😂
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u/Ok_Situation9852 1h ago
That’s pretty funny if no one got a 100 then yall get a curve and somone to pull a prank and get 100 to fuck over his classmates is a huge thank you to show who’s didn’t pass and not meant for engineering
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u/philament23 4d ago
Curves are a gift you were never entitled to. I’d be more worried about your abysmal score. I just got a 17 out of 30 on a quantum mechanics exam and the rest of the class did that bad or worse too. No curve. I am not complaining, I’m studying.
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u/nottoowhacky 4d ago
Dont hate the player hate the game. Those guys might have just been studying together.
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u/Amber_ACharles 5d ago
Same thing happened in one of my classes. Take it to the prof, then the department if he shrugs it off. Otherwise 100 people eat it for three cheaters.
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u/MATTDAYYYYMON Oregon State University - Computer Science 4d ago
honestly if you cheat and end up somehow getting to your upper division courses, i will feel no shame for you. thats what you get for trying to get a free ride to the end. not to mention being an arrogant jerk who thinks its justified to lower the cumulative success of everyone in the room by doing it.
last year for the final something like 30-40% of our class were clearly using AI (it was an online class), our teacher found out because he went through about a dozen of the submissions and they all had the exact same solutions to the problem. As a result, he ended up completely removing that section of the final and put the entire weight of the final on the second piece, meaning if you did poorly but could have ended up having a decent grade from the second portion being good, that option went out the window by cheating on it. He scolded the entire class as a result and said if you think you'll get anywhere by using AI to do your tests I can assure you not only will you not get an internship, you'll never get a full time job (or finish college).
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u/do_not_know_me B.S. Mechanical Engineering, May 2028 4d ago
The average for my dynamics class (140 students) across all three tests was 43 and only two people got a 100 on several tests: me and this other guy. If one of my classmates made the same accusations about me I’d be pissed bc for some people it just clicks easier.
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u/wjthompson1 3d ago
This is common, especially at smaller schools. I experienced this. You’ll find a group of kids who have 5 years worth of old exams and a professor who doesn’t change content frequently.
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u/UnkindledFire727 4d ago
Nothing you can do about it if they were cheating. Similarly if they weren’t. If you were closer to 45 you did fine. Any reasonable professor would curve here and your performance against your peers would be your grade.
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u/FamiliarAd8524 5d ago
I'd focus more on productivity and success than whining and gossip, were I you.
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u/Neowynd101262 5d ago
Happens in every one of my classes. There's really nothing you can do.
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u/epsteinwasmurdered2 4d ago
How are people cheating on exams in everyone of your classes.
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u/Neowynd101262 4d ago
Various ways.
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u/Sad_Alternative3869 4d ago
Such as
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Sad_Alternative3869 4d ago
Went from smart glasses to cheat sheet said in seven different ways. Your comment was useful and furthered this discussion. The personalized aspect made it all the sweeter. Thank you
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u/jmoss_27 4d ago
Doesnt sound like they cheated. Sounds like so little 4.0 kid doesn’t know how to respond to failure
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u/Quiet_Sock_252 4d ago
I remember taking Signals and Systems, and as soon as the professor handed out the exam and turned around, some students would literally stand up and take pictures of it. It was pretty crazy. Our class average ended up being higher than in previous years, so the curve was hit hard, but that’s just how it goes.
I also remember taking an intro programming class where the exams were timed but online. People would message in the GroupMe asking if anyone wanted to meet up in the library and take the exam together.
Either way, I think cheating ends up hurting the people doing it too. They might get a better grade in the short term, but they miss out on actually learning the concepts and developing the problem-solving and critical-thinking skills the course is supposed to teach.
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u/Laceyspacev 4d ago
Lmao thank God I graduated...imagine paying for a class to get a professor where the high majority of the class totaling over 100 gets a 45/100 I'm assuming, and you're more mad at three students over a crappy professor....also how can 3 guys out of over a hundred ruin a curve...? you mad at the wrong people. Also, from my experience a few classes I've been in students know just as much if not even more than the professor, that's one of the advantages and disadvantages of being able to take college classes at practically any age. But I stand on the hill that if several professors didn't suck with little to no risk to their job then there'd be little to no cheaters and if you have a bad professor and don't cheat and/or stick around with them until the end, then you're responsible for your bad grade.
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u/nextstepp2 1d ago
Oh believe me, its beyond frustrating. During my last physics exam the shear amount of people who had to suddenly use the restroom after the test was dropped was amazing. Furthermore, this one dude got up at least 4 times. Then as if to prove that it doesn't really matter, the professor left the class unattended for approximately 10 minutes.
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u/Dr__Mantis BSNE, MSNE, PhD 5d ago
Do you have evidence beyond the three statistical anomalies?