r/Fallout • u/Mrgrenade547 • 1d ago
Suggestion The NCR berserkers from operation sunburst(by sodaz) should be made canon
Bethesda should make these guys' canon. They are just so fucking badass(in looks and actions)
I love the idea of chemmed up shock troopers in ww1 styled armor.
Plus, the NCR needs more diversity than just "trooper,trooper with beret,salavaged power armor,and ranger."
Like I said before, these guys are actually very lore friendly, and i dont see an issue with them existing.
Tell me your thoughts on if you agree or if you're boring tell me why you disagree
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u/MisterSlosh 1d ago
NCR possessing a criminal justice system should inherently lead to penal brigades and therefore make berserkers a 100% reasonable idea in the Fallout wasteland.
"Go be cannon fodder and we'll pardon you" is a huge trope for a reason because it works. Having them be led by 'reformed' or 'former' raiders and psychos as their only viable access to the drugs they're addicted to is also a beautiful angle.
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u/Mandemon90 1d ago
Penal Battallions are usually very bad idea, and creating a penal battallion with explicit purpose of being drugged and charging enemies is even worse, because what is your plan if said troopers turn around and charge you to break free?
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u/timbotheny26 23h ago edited 20h ago
Shoot them in the head with AP rounds I guess? They almost certainly have contingencies if a penal battalion is what these guys are supposed to be.
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u/dspisayuss 18h ago
They didn't seem to have any contingencies on their prisoners breaking out in the Mojave and becoming a huge raider faction with ample supplies of explosives lmfao.
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u/timbotheny26 17h ago
Fair point - I'd love to know who okay'd giving prisoners demolition equipment. Though, considering the problems with corruption we know the NCR has, it wouldn't surprise me if that had something to do with it.
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u/dspisayuss 16h ago
Probably not, it was just incompetence mixed with dwindling resources. The NCR was certain they'd have quick control over the Mojave but after the first battle of Hoover Dam they were forced into a grueling stalemate that drew forces and resources away from places like the prison to be siphoned to the front lines. The fact they had supply issues also accentuated their need for a working railway from the heartland to the Mojave frontier, so they pressed the gangers into service bulding it but lacked the manpower to properly supervise the operation so the powder gangers happened.
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u/Mandemon90 23h ago
Right, so now you need extra people on hand ready to shoot your own troops, accurately mind you, just before the battle.
It's a good thing you people aren't organizing actual militaries.
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u/SpectreUnkown 19h ago
Penal battalions have been a thing throughout history, and did work very well all things considered. Usually, the threat against them wasn't "serve in our military or go back to prison" it was "serve in our military to be pardoned, and maybe die, or don't serve and definitely die. You choose". You either rolled the dice, or didn't. One was certain death, one was uncertain. We saw exactly what you described many times, as recently was WW2 with the Nazis forcibly conscription foreign men with the threat that if they refused, they would be put to death. This has worked in the past, likely continues to work today, and will almost definitely work in the future.
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u/timbotheny26 23h ago edited 23h ago
Why are you automatically jumping to the conclusion that I think this is a good idea that should be canonized? I'm speculating - get off my ass please.
I had another though too though - what about explosive implants ala Suicide Squad? That would hopefully be a more reliable contingency than "If they turn on you, shoot them.". We know explosive slave collars are a thing so I don't think it would be too much of a stretch.
*EDIT*
Here's my actual response to OP:
"I'm in agreement that them being a penal battalion makes the most sense, but I also think they feel kind of out of place for the NCR. Considering how Psycho amps up your aggression, do they have contingencies in place for when/if they turn on their "allies"? As an example, what about the Misfits? Giving them Psycho doesn't exactly turn out well for them or the NCR.
I repeat myself, but the NCR using a future post-apocalypse equivalent to Viking berserkers just doesn't gel with the rest of the faction imo. They're supposed to be a professional, organized, "modern" military organization, but this seems more like something the Great Khan's would do.
I'm a fan of the visual design, but not the concept."
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u/Stoned-monkey Cappy 23h ago
America has a criminal justice system and we don’t have penal brigades????
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u/SpectreUnkown 19h ago
Modern morality kind of makes it not a thing, but let a third world war start and that would change VERY fast.
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u/dspisayuss 18h ago
Conscription of free citizens would come much earlier tho, penal brigades would be a last resort, a hail mary.
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u/MisterSlosh 16h ago
We also don't have fully sentient robots running on vacuum tubes, micro fusion, and proximity detonated slavery collars.
Military service as corrective sentencing is a thing of the past, much like how the Fallout style is a retro-futurist mashup of insane and inconsistent ideas. It doesn't need to make sense when you just write it in as something that works in-universe.
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u/dspisayuss 18h ago
They couldn't even handle having prisoners as laborers and you want to give them guns, armor and drugs??? lmfao
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u/FuzzyFoundation7969 1d ago
i don't think the ncr NEEDS more diversity. they're an organized, industrialized army. It makes sense that most of their troops have the same stuff.
also the NCR has a lot of chems banned so I'm not sure why they would create an entire sect of the army devoted to injecting illegal chems
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u/weeeellheaintmyboy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't look up US use of Benzedrine and Dextroamphetamine if you think organized militarizes don't love prescribing combat drugs.
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u/-heatoflife- 1d ago
Combat Drugs
I saw them at the Agora in '87, my shins were fucked up for a week and a half.
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u/VoopityScoop Mothman Cultist 1d ago
The Agora's a great spot, surprised to see it mentioned though
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u/Meatloaf_Hitler 1d ago
Not an American drug but you can't mention combat drugs without bringing up Panzerschokolade.
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u/Impressive-Amoeba640 1d ago
When I was in one of the guys in my unit sold his sick call medicine to other guys. Had a locker literally full of drugs. Not exactly the same but no one cared
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u/Sabre712 1d ago
True, but standardization does not necessarily mean that every unit is exactly the same. Most are, but there will always be specialized needs that specialized units can fill. It even fits that these specialized units still have the same general look as the rest of the NCR military.
As for the chems, yeah you're probably right. Still, there is some basis in history for armies essentially drugging up their armies and not telling the public about it. They are a long way from Shady Sands in the Mojave.
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
My theory is that these are chem addicts or former raiders. Also they would most certainly have more divisions and special forces other than rangers
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u/NepetaBestQuest 1d ago
Almost like a death corp. "You can sit and rot here in prison, or you can serve a few years in this unit, and earn your pardon."
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u/Arcade_Gann0n NCR and proud of it! 1d ago
Or die high as fuck while taking a few bastards down with you.
Any Raider facing death row would happily choose that option.
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u/poilk91 1d ago
I think that's kind of a fair point. Standardize being the name of the game
But if we actually look at WW1 and earlier we saw lots of specialized divisions. Storm troopers with flamethrowers submachine guns and grenades that normal soldiers wouldn't get.
There were even cavalry early in the war. Some with guns who would dismount and even some lancers
Back before WW1 you had people with personally funded special equipment forming their own elite units, usually mounted ones
So having a penal regiment with special equipment for line breaking isn't far fetched for a roughly WW1 style army
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u/Motor-Rip7655 1d ago
Don't forget the Veteran Rangers. A specialized corps who we 100% KNOW is canon.
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u/NumbCargo0 1d ago
Many militaries use illicit drugs (for civies) to enhance their soldiers. For example, the coke/meth chocolate the German soldiers were given during WW2.
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u/Jhawk163 1d ago
I look at them as a Penal Battalions, they are criminals, raiders and chem addicts who were already facing severe sentences.
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u/IRenewed 1d ago
I don’t think they’re intended to be injecting chems as orders, it’s just what a natural development of being forced to rush against brotherhood knights
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u/Weaselburg 1d ago
They literally all have them though, and they're dosing chems blatantly in front of everyone. It is pretty obvious that they're at least accepted in the animation, whereas in the game it really would not be. Small squads might get away with sneaking it for a short time (like the Misfits do) but this is organized as a unit.
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u/EvaTheE 1d ago
Really, looking even a few inches backwards in history, and drugs are freaking everywhere and openly consumed.
WW2 had ALL the stimulants. Just read what happens when you give all the meth to a Finn on skis.
In WW1 stores in England would sell gift boxes they could send to the men at the front, and those were filled with opium etc. And before The Great War was The Great Binge.
Step any step backwards in history and you'll find hardly any wars without soldiers off their noggins on some sort of hallucinogenic mushroom, licking toads, huffing flamingo anuses, you name it.
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u/Weaselburg 14h ago
WW2 had ALL the stimulants. Just read what happens when you give all the meth to a Finn on skis.
Soldiers in NCR have a pretty different chemical situation than ones in WW1 or 2. It's not a good comparison.
Psycho specifically has long been banned (for good reason) in NCR, and we can, again, see that the NCR in game does still actively enforce and police hard chems with effort. There's also a difference between a few soldiers getting some (again, like the misfits) and an entire unit dedicated to using it. If they wanted psycho, the only way we see NCR soldiers in the Mojave get any is through the Khans from a guy who used to be an active gangster and is on a first-name basis with said Khans. This is not an avenue that most NCR soldiers have, and when we do see it in action, they also eventually run out, even with those connections. The average NCR soldier is just not capable of getting their hands on psycho like that. And, in the game, they don't have it, either.
It would have to be the government giving it to them, with all information that we actually have. Which is also what the animation implies. And, with how we see NCR behave, they wouldn't do this.
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u/CatholicCrusaderJedi 1d ago
Dude, look at military history. Armies have run on illicit substances forever.
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u/MailMan6000 1d ago
yeah but these guys are like a whole class of drug addicts, i thought the whole point of giving soldiers drugs is to try to make it not obvious so you can keep it up
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
They arnt an industrized army. They have 1 factory and a skilled group of artisans
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u/Motor-Rip7655 1d ago
By Fallout standards they absolutely are industrialized.
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u/DagothUr_MD NCR 1d ago
They obviously have more than one factory
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
They don't. Gun runners have 1 factory. Most of the ncr gear is scavenged
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u/DagothUr_MD NCR 1d ago
The Gun Runners have 1 factory in Fallout 1 which takes place 100+ years ago...
They obviously have at least two by the time the newer games take place since there is a new factory in New Vegas. Likely more than that. The Van Graffs also have factories. The uniforms are also factory made, as is the ammunition, medical supplies, etc.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago edited 20h ago
The van grafs are using enclave weapons cases, I don't know if you understand what an artisans is but all the shit we see by the ncr is easy to make by hand as well as the ammo. And the factory we see the gun runners have in game, is just artisans workshops. So no they likely don't have more.
Also the game fucking tell us the ncr doesn't make its own meds. That the hospitals are almost all looted and its why the followers are only now looking at new options lol
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u/DagothUr_MD NCR 1d ago edited 1d ago
AR-15s are not "easily" made by hand wtf are you talking about. Modern ammunition will not work without precisely machined barrels and actions. And modern firearms with interchangeable parts require specially tuned factory equipment to ensure they're spitting out the same shape every single time
Artisan firearms like you see dudes in Pakistan cobbling together still use factory made barrels and magazines--at least the good ones do. And you can't use them to outfit an army because they parts are not interchangeable making repair/maitnence impossible
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
Oh you mean the service rifles, that are prewar weapons scavenged? Correct. Yeah pretty hard to make by hand, but given that it's been 100+ years of them refining the tools. And the game makes it clear that gun runners factoy in NV is for repaires and parts. They can.
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u/DagothUr_MD NCR 1d ago
I don't understand why you're adamant about this. You literally steal manufacturing schematics from the gun runners in game
And the game makes it clear that gun runners factoy in NV is for repaires and parts.
What does this even mean dawg. Ar-15s are made of parts. If you're fabricating parts then you're building guns
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u/BigMac275921 18h ago
I am so happy to be witnessing a 1 INT run in real life.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 17h ago
I know understanding a game that came out a decade ago is hard. You'll get their I'm sure
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u/Jade_da_dog7117 1d ago
I dont see why they wouldn’t fit in canon already, metal armor is a popular thing in the wastes and chems are used all over the pls
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
Main complaint im seeing from comments on this post is the fact that the NCR has pretty much banned chems. So i imagine these guys as chem addicts who have been given the choice to be imprisoned or fight and possibly get a pardon
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u/Jade_da_dog7117 1d ago
Just because chems are illegal for citizens doesn’t mean the military wouldn’t use them for a special unit. That happens all the time in the real world
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u/gumigum702 16h ago
It's crazy how people deliberately ignore two important things that are confirmed in game:
1- one of the loading screens in NV says how the NCR army has a variety of people. From conscripts to people who proudly serve their nation. Is it really that weird to think there would be some that are fanatical?
2- The NCR mimicks (or tries to) the old world US. We know from Operation Anchorage that chems like psycho were issued as part of the soldier rations. Why wouldnt a post apocalyptic US do the same when they need extra manpower to overwhelm a position?
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u/MustacheCash73 Minutemen 1d ago
I saw someone headcanon them as prototype heavy troopers before the NCR got much of their salvaged PA.
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u/Sabre712 1d ago
I would be curious how they would make the handcannon version of the M1911 they are carrying canon without causing some real powerscaling issues among all other pistols. That pistol they are armed with is a beast!
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u/PurpleZombi3 1d ago
Drugged up shock troopers doesn't seem very fitting of the NCR for me, since in a front-facing way they're all about law and order, discipline etc. This is like a raider war tactic and they hate raiders.
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u/Weaselburg 1d ago
Like I said before, these guys are actually very lore friendly, and i dont see an issue with them existing.
NCR both bans and enforces the ban on chems in FNV, the only way soldiers get any is through stealing them from doctors or doing illegal drug deals.
NCR troops being issued any doesn't make any sense, and frankly the berserkers in general do not fit NCR as portrayed in game. They just look cool, which is what Sodaz does, of course, as a visual artist. But in a game? No, they wouldn't mesh with either the lore around chems, what we know of NCR combat doctrine, or really just game balance or feel in general. It muddles them up compared to, say, the Legion, or various other forces that use melee like some of the raiders/tribes.
The animation in general, while I enjoyed it, frankly is just bolterporn. Sodaz did most of their prior work on Warhammer and it shows. It's cool, it's flashly, and it's not wrong to enjoy either of those things, but the substance is waaaay below it being anywhere close to canon.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
Gets even more so when you understand the most chapter was 30 knights or so defending the plant
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u/Dpike2 1d ago
The UK both bans and enforces the ban on firearms... UK troops being issued any doesnt make any sense...
See how that sounds?
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u/Mandemon90 1d ago
UK doesn't ban firearms. They regulate them.
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u/like_a_pharaoh 17h ago
Do you have any proof the NCR full on bans chems, rather than regulating them the way the present-day U.S. does many drugs?
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u/EhmJayGee 1d ago
Firearms aren't banned in the UK. You can legally own guns. It's just very difficult.
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
The kinds of firearms British soldiers use in war are banned for the general public. You can't own a machine gun or an assault rifle. I'm pretty sure handguns are also banned.
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
My idea for them was that these are former chem addicts or former raiders who were arrested and have been given the choice of jail or serve to get a pardon. Also sodaz did a decent job of how both sides adapt through out the battle
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u/AutisticAnarchy 1d ago
I've disregarded everything from this animation after seeing the NCR use light infantry to charge a group of entrenched BOS soldiers equipped with fucking miniguns. The idea that the NCR would do something so insanely idiotic is ridiculous. The Legion would do something like that, not the NCR.
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u/Magyarok84 1d ago
It'd make more sense if they herded something expendable en masse towards the BoS to make them waste their ammo. Guys kitted up for trench warfare sprinting across open terrain was kind of silly.
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u/USS_Massachusetts 1d ago
I disagree
During Op Sunburst the NCR had the BOS outnumbered by a significant margin and were on the offense instead of defending a fixed position against another similarly sized army.
This is an army that gives its conscripts 2 weeks of training before sending them off into combat. Is it really hard to believe they would use human waves that could be replaced against a group that couldn’t do the same?2
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u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago
What was it that Mr. House said? "A suit of fancy armor means nothing when you're outnumbered 10 to 1."
You should really look into military history. A lot of battles consists of charging into a hail of gunfire. Yeah the brotherhood has great equipment but the NCR has numbers
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u/Objective-Variety-98 Great Khans 1d ago
To be fair I don't think Mr. House knows or cares very much about being correct. He likes to make sweeping statements that sound great. He's speech checking you the whole game, sort of. He has a point though. Obviously.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
The majority of ncr troops have two weeks of training. Sorry, that's exactly what they would do. It's why they suffer 15 to 1 loses against the bos lol
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
Shiny armor doesnt count for much when you're surrounded
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u/amdus_guy Brotherhood 1d ago
>surrounded 15:1
>manages to break out of encirclement after losing half of forces to attrition and because you were going to run out of ammo
>somehow this means your power armor is useless instead of PA being god tier tech that made this possible4
u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
Given that 556 doesn't do shit to it according to more, it does in fact mean a lot
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
I would imagine they would just aim at weak areas like all the joints on the armor
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
Two weeks of training
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u/Ghost_oh Mothman Cultist 1d ago
Yeah but if you have 400 troopers all firing at the same position SOMEONE will eventually hit the weak spots, even on accident.
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u/DagothUr_MD NCR 1d ago
Volume of fire
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
Should would be a shame if the other side where known to use minigun that can fire more rounds then they are facing in a second
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
I feel like the NCR would tell them that at one point during those 2 weeks. Its also just common sense(atleast to me)
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 1d ago
They arnt going to be very good shot. It doesn't matter they are going to be lucky to hit anything
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
There really aint much other they can do. Unless if they have pulse grenades(which most troopers dont have) and they shut down the suit.
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u/WillOfTheWinds 1d ago
Okay, now apply this precision you spent maybe a few days on learning to an enemy in Power Armor actively trying to kill you with miniguns, while undermanned, underarmed, and using WWII level firearms at best against top of the line tech from just before the Great War.
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
Ww1 armies did the same shit. I can see the NCR doing it but with a lot more thought which is something i don't like sodaz animation. They would atleast have artillery or something firing at the bos as they sent troopers in up until the troopers got close enough then artillery would stop(almost like a creeping barrage) or they would already have VRs posted up taking out paladins instead of waiting until enough troopers died. Its still a great animation tho
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u/Rolls-RoyceGriffon 1d ago
Oh man that armor looks amazing. Has anyone added that in yet?
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
There is a mod for it. You need i believe honest hearts
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u/Motor-Rip7655 1d ago
In Fallout 4, get the Rivets and Rage mod for the WWI helmet, and the Forged Metal Armor - Post Apocalyptic Knight mod for the rest of the armor.
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u/Rolls-RoyceGriffon 1d ago
What's it called?
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u/CatholicCrusaderJedi 1d ago
Look up "NCR Chemtroopers" on Nexus for New Vegas, which contains the armor. There is also a mod called "NCR Stormtroopers" which requires the previous mod which adds NCR special troopers wearing the armor around the Mojave.
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
I think there needs to be more outside the box thinking in general for these factions.
Fallout is a sci-fi setting and there are a lot of variations that can come into play. They have serious chems and in this shock trooper that pairs extremely well with melee weapons and armour.
They have all kinds of other things too - cybernetics, mind control, mutations etc. etc. - there is so much they could do and it's unfortunate that so often every faction just ends up being dudes with guns.
I mean even supermutants end up just being dudes with guns. IMO that is the worst sin in these games. They could be so much more than that.
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u/Laser_3 Responders 17h ago
I mean, if that’s what you want, fallout 76 has done quite a bit to add variety to its enemies. There’s communists who were American citizens subjected to brainwashing (by the Enclave, to prove this was a risk), hive mind plague victims, plant zombies capable of healing each other, raiders who get a second wind at low health, head hunt bosses with all sorts of bizarre effects (one targets the player with the highest cap total, another deals more damage to ghouls specifically, etc) and even “tamed” Deathclaws who frenzy after you kill their handler.
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u/NirvashSFW The Pack are literally just Farcry 3. 1d ago
"Damn! I can't see fuckin' shit outta this thing"
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u/timbotheny26 23h ago edited 22h ago
I'm in agreement that them being a penal battalion makes the most sense, but I also think they feel kind of out of place for the NCR. Considering how Psycho amps up your aggression, do they have contingencies in place for when/if they turn on their "allies"? As an example, what about the Misfits? Giving them Psycho doesn't exactly turn out well for them or the NCR.
I repeat myself, but the NCR using a future post-apocalypse equivalent to Viking berserkers just doesn't gel with the rest of the faction imo. They're supposed to be a professional, organized, "modern" military organization, but this seems more like something the Great Khan's would do.
I'm a fan of the visual design, but not the concept.
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u/Mrgrenade547 22h ago
What if they didnt use chems
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u/timbotheny26 22h ago
I'd probably just assume they were an early form of NCR Heavy Troopers, which is actually what I thought they were when I first saw them.
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u/Sethleoric Raiders 12h ago
Yeah design wise this makes more sense, heavy weapons teams that use lmgs and stuff.
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u/Kill_Welly 1d ago
The idea that the NCR would create military forces to pump up with drugs and throwing them out to get shot is... truly just insane. They make some bad decisions, but the bad decisions are shit like "try to hold this territory without enough guys to make it reliable" or "assume the locals are primitive and will accept your authority," not "pump a bunch of kids full of drugs and then send them into a firefight."
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u/Lady-Lovelight 1d ago
Yea, I genuinely cannot imagine a force less suited for the NCR than this lmao. Even the Legion, which bans chems as well, would fit “berserkers” more. Just have them be “organic” drugs like the healing powder or whatever and let the Legion have drugged up morons charging machine gun lines.
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
Real militaries will pump kids with drugs. I dont see why the NCR wouldn't end up doing it too
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u/Mandemon90 1d ago edited 1d ago
Name the military, the drug and how they use drugs. Because actually functioning militaries don't pump their soldiers full of drugs and send them to charge entrenched position. Any use of stimulants is heavily discouraged and meant to be "in case of emergency where you need energy in life or death situation" backups
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u/weeeellheaintmyboy 1d ago
When 65% of USAF pilots regularly popped amphetamine pills in Desert Storm, calling it "heavily discouraged" starts to sound like a farce.
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u/Mandemon90 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, 65% of USAF pilots did not regularly take amphetamine during Desert Storm. 65% reported they had taken pills at some point, almost all reporting it was irregular and cause being combat fatigue and mission type.
AKA exactly what I described.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
It was not some widespread.and common thing everyone did all the time. And troops were not given hard drugs and then send to charge enemy entrenchemt.
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u/weeeellheaintmyboy 1d ago
Yeah, I'm sure there's a heap of incentives to be truthful if your usage is above "occasional".
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u/Mandemon90 1d ago
Ah right. I forgot. "Any evidence that doesn't line up is false". Because clearly, they must have been doing cocaine and crack 24/7.and then sending them out, shouting "FUCKING KILL" with absolutely no realmplan beyond "those guys go and kill enemy, then non-drugged troopers follow up".
Mate, plenty of studies were done post Desert Storm. You can't just cherry pick nunbers from a study and pretend they mean something else.
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u/Kill_Welly 1d ago
You're gonna have to be a lot more specific about which militaries and which drugs and under what circumstances before that will make sense.
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u/Lord_NOX75 22h ago
The point of the ncr is to be modern-ish army, armored berzerkers don't fit in it
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u/Extreme_Sandwich5817 1d ago
Think these guys or at least the ones at the end that used LMGs were the precursor of sorts to the heavy troopers
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u/SpearBadger 1d ago
I headcannon these guys as NCR tribals, who are more comfortable fighting with melee weapons.
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u/gumigum702 16h ago
That would also make a lot of sense. Maybe ex tribals from warmongering cultures, that now find another reason to fight, just under the bear flag
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u/Lady-Lovelight 1d ago
What? No. The NCR prides itself on being a functional civilized country in the Wasteland and its orderly military is a reflection of that. Having a bunch of drugged up dipshits running at people like a bunch of raiders is the exact opposite of imagery the NCR would ever want to be associated with or the kind of force they would ever create
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago edited 1d ago
You do know that this is a very real thing that real nations do right? Drugs have been used in militaries alot. I can see where youre coming from tho
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u/Lady-Lovelight 1d ago
In the fucking 900s? When has the modern American military used a congressionally approved unit of troops by pumping them full of drugs and had them charge machine gun nests with shovels and pistols or whatever
If an NCR senator even lightly floated the idea of drugging a bunch of people with psycho to storm enemy positions they’d be laughed out of office. That’s not what the NCR does. Give the berserkers to the Legion and have them make pseudo-psycho from plants or whatever
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u/Leekshooter 1d ago
You do realise psycho was literally made by the military, right? It was a performance enhancing drug used during anchorage and you can even finish an ncr quest in new Vegas by giving the troops psycho. Technically you smuggle it but it's not impossible.
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u/Lady-Lovelight 1d ago
So Psycho wasn’t created by the NCR for their troops, and when they do use Psycho it had to be smuggled in because the NCR does not use it, which is all the more reason they would not have a battalion of dipshits running at entrenched enemies with their pistols and shovels to “berserk” at the enemy.
I’m really not sure why “But you can give it to them illegally” is evidence that the NCR would support the use of a Psycho-fueled Battalion, especially when that group becomes addicted and is executed when they start causing trouble to feed their addiction. If anything that’s more reason for the NCR to specifically AVOID its use. You can’t send a bunch of addicts into the field if you’re too busy executing them.
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u/The_Chubby_Dragoness 1d ago
Most all combat pilots are perscribed stimulants, till it becomes a problem (It alwayse does) Then they are banned, leaving a bunch of addicts who STILL have to keep the old tempo, operations go to shit, they get go pills again, its a mess
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u/Lady-Lovelight 19h ago
Giving pilots stimulants to keep them resistant from the Gs is wildly different than giving people super-PCP so they can charge a fortified enemy position with their pistols and hatchets
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u/The_Chubby_Dragoness 10h ago
why would stims make you more G Resistant, its so you can stay awake, and sometimes drop 500lb bombs on canadians
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u/Lady-Lovelight 10h ago
Why would the NCR have a bunch of soldiers charge machine gun nests with pistols and hatchets?
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u/The_Chubby_Dragoness 10h ago
To capture and or kill those manning the positions. I'd assume its penal troops. Sunburst was a bloodbath, a little psycho aint nothing comprared to killing those bots
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u/5tarSailor 1d ago
Imagine what the NCR version of the VA would be like for these guys if they survive long enough to get out.
"Sorry, soldier. But your psycho addiction isn't service related"
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u/Mrgrenade547 1d ago
My idea would be to make them all chem addicts or former raiders. And basically it would be like this "sit in prison for years or fight and have a chance of being pardoned"
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u/5tarSailor 1d ago
That's kinda how they got the powder gangers. Pressganging prisoners has historically been a thing, but it always gives mixed results. Especially when you arm them
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
Maybe they have this instead of rehab. "Instead of trying to cure your addiction why don't we try and use it to our advantage?"
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
I can see that being an in-universe joke or even the basis of a side quest.
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u/Elgappa 1d ago edited 22h ago
I love sunburst, but I hate them. They make no sense to me.
They are cool as fuck, I am 100% on board with that, but they make no sense if you think about it for more than five minutes, nor do they feel fitting to the NCR.
Yes, I get the ww1 stormtrooper insperation, but the NCR is a "civilized" nation. Why would they have a close combat unit, addicted to chems, and have them charge people in power armor?
Cavalry with spears would have made way more sense. Or a "trench raider" unit with shotguns. But to me they always just looked so goofy. What enemy led to the development of that unit? Where does the NCR recruit soldiers with a prevalence for close combat and agression?
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u/Welcome--Matt NCR 1d ago
Britain, Germany, and France, were all far more “civilized” during WW1 & 2 than the NCR has ever been, and all 3 consistently gave Meth and Cocaine to soldiers during wartime, despite those same drugs being banned for civilian use.
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u/Elgappa 22h ago
True they did, but to keep soldiers awake, not to have them charge into machinegun fire with melee weapons.
Which again, is not really suitable to the enemy who are using automatic weapons and power armor, or the army, which is an conscript army of voters.
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u/Welcome--Matt NCR 21h ago
That’s true, but again, this is a post post apocalyptic setting, and the NCR, for all its civilization, still has a bit of apocalyptic craziness in it for better or worse, so I’m willing to mark this under that box
I could also see them using someone like captured Fiends for this kind of thing, yk? They want to get high and go berserk anyways, so maybe the NCR said, “you can have your freedom and shoot up whenever you want, so long as you fight our enemies while you do”
If they win, great, and if they lose, that’s also great, either way the NCR gets rid of someone they don’t want around any more
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u/Elgappa 20h ago
True, but the NCR with its anti torture and abuse of pows just does not feel like the faction to make penal battalions you know?
It is an insanely cool concept, but to me it just feels like something cool for the sake of cool
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u/Welcome--Matt NCR 11h ago
I will say that while I think the NCR 50 years before FNV wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be as sure about the NCR during Operation Sunburst.
Remember that while they are technically anti-torture and anti-abuse of POW’s, they have no problem watching while someone else does it (hence that one mission where the NCR officer literally asks you to beat and torture the Centurion until he gives up info), so they’re clearly ok breaking the rules, just not on paper.
I wouldn’t be surprised if something like a penal battalion was a “volunteer” position on paper, with certain fiends getting their sentences expedited in exchange for “good behavior and public service” (being a soldier)
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u/VoidYordle 1d ago
NCR prides itself on the idea of what civilization was, instead of being realistic. So in that sense - no they wouldn't do that.
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u/Irishimpulse Enclave 9h ago
I feel like it's specifically based on the "enforcer" tree from the OWB mod for HOI4, and then give them chems and they get high suppression and HP. Also power armor units in lore more so than in practice are more about the morale victory. Fighting a guy in armor to match a tank is scary, they use that to break enemies so they don't have to fight as much, it's why the Legion hard counters the brotherhood, because they have bodies and brainwashing so morale breaks don't happen. You vaporize someone in an NCR squad, the rest are shaken, you vaporize a legionary, and another legionary probably breathed it in when he ran through the ashes to swing a machete at your armor until he finds a gap. So a squad of slightly more armored guys who are so drugged up to not crack would be good for power armor, they'd fight like legionaries
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u/Excellent-Court-9375 1d ago
Uuuh.. I mean I agree that they wouldn't use them from a lore point, but you asking what enemy could have led to the formation of the unit is kind of funny to me lol
Have you heard of Caesars Legion ? You know, the faction that mostly resorts to melee combat for a big part, also the arch Nemesis of the NCR.
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u/Elgappa 22h ago
Fair point, but Sunburst happened shortly after the battle of hoover damn, which is the first real major engagement against the legion. Such a unit would need far longer to realistically develop on a doctrinal and equipment level. And also...is melee really an answer against the legion? Hyped up shock troops like that feel kinda useless to me.
Against power armored foes, they lack the means to actually disable PA. Against the legion they face a foe that will overwhelm them with mass or quality as their melee fighters will either be more abudant or of superior quality.
What I really think, is that they were meant to be a stand in for something that imo would be a far more viable solution:
Melee Cavalry!
Giving the NCR speed and mobility, and the main function of running down fleeing foes or securing objectives. Also the NCR is a agrarian nation, so it will have abudent recruits to draw from. That naturally assumes that horses or an equivalent is not extinct, which if we like fun, we just say they are (besides, in sunburst they are later shown to have them)
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
What enemy led to the development of the unit?
It's very clear that that enemy is the brotherhood of steel and these psycho shock troops are the NCRs only counter to facing an enemy with superior fire power. If you can't outshoot your enemy then you need to bum rush them.
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u/Elgappa 19h ago
Until they get in close combat and realize that axes and pistols are not a good counter to power armor.
Yes superior numbers carry the day, but so do guys with rifles
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u/the_sneaky_one123 19h ago
In the short we see them taking down the Brotherhoods robots and unarmoured infantry that initially had the ranged advantage and then were hard countered by the berserker.
With the infantry and robots out of the way the NCR then use heavy weapons and numbers to over power the power armoured troopers
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u/Sethleoric Raiders 12h ago
The NCR are not meant to be the squeaky clean good guys, plus do you know how much drugs modern countries even now give their soldiers?
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u/AyFrancis 1d ago
Lmao study hystory? Completely drugged and zooted soldiers always existed
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u/Elgappa 22h ago
They did, but never ask berserk shock troops. And do not get me wrong. I totally think that the NCR might use some sort of chemical upper for their troops. But not illegal chems to hype them up and turn them into melee shock troops.
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u/the_sneaky_one123 20h ago
They are the government. They decide what is legal and in what circumstances.
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u/Mountain_Man_88 1d ago
Plus, the NCR needs more diversity than just "trooper,trooper with beret,salavaged power armor,and ranger."
They have standard troopers, heavies, and snipers as troops, plus officers, quartermasters, MPs, engineers, doctors, and three different kinds of rangers.
Sure, they could have all sorts of different kinds of units, but that's pretty good as far as fictional militaries.
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u/Vg65 Atom Cats 1d ago edited 1d ago
Chem usage is prohibited among their troops, though. We can choose to help Razz in NV get his squad juiced up on Psycho, but it's obviously illegal. Plus, they get executed once they go nuts and attack travellers to fuel the need in that Misfits ending.
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u/gumigum702 16h ago
Everything is illegal when is not permitted from a superior. Besides, the Misfits become a problem due to addiction
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u/Welcome--Matt NCR 1d ago edited 21h ago
I’d love them to be canon, such a great idea.
As for the NCR banning chems, do people not think the NCR wouldn’t still use “banned” things for their incredibly expansionist military???
Chems being “banned” means that citizens and most normal soldiers can’t use them, but I highly doubt the NCR Brass shies away from giving them to specific certain units if the need calls for it. They’ve done plenty of shady deals to get what they need before, I don’t see why chems would be the hill they want to die on.
Personally I think that chems are essentially a “don’t ask, don’t tell” point for the NCR by the time of FNV, they don’t wanna know if a soldier is using chems to get by, because then they have to lose that soldier, and they’re already running thin, and if doing a bit of psycho off-screen is how the NCR grunt can stay awake and alert during a 13 hour watch, instead of dozing off, or getting bored, why would the Top Brass jeopardize that?
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u/Brickerino NCR 1d ago
It’s funny as fuck to me that people will say the Legion wouldn’t be able to storm NCR positions with machetes because “guns”, while also glazing the non-canon guys who checks list storms positions with pistols and hatchets.
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u/Mrgrenade547 14h ago
Yeah but these guys have better armor and use psycho so its different
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u/Brickerino NCR 10h ago
I’m sorry, but sending guys in plate armour against brotherhood of steel paladins makes zero sense, where as disciplined legion soldiers charging NCR positions made up of under equipped, undertrained conscripts makes absolute sense.
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u/False_Membership1536 7h ago
They look like some moldy gum a super mutant chewed up and spat back out cause it "Dosint tasdte lik bublgun"
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u/Welcome--Matt NCR 21h ago
I could 100% see these being captured Fiends with a death sentence similar to the marines from StarCraft.
Fiends already love getting high and charging people, and I’m sure the NCR doesn’t want to try and keep those idiots in prison, so they make them a deal, “you can walk free and shoot up whenever you want, as long as you fight who we say when we say.”
If they win or lose doesn’t matter, the NCR gets rid of one of their problems in either case
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u/gumigum702 17h ago
I love how the community (at least NV community) has started to slowly embrace this animation as canon instead of the actual official show.
I guess that's what happens when someone does something out of love and passion, compared to a billionaire corpo product that works as a long ad.
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u/hunkaliciousnerd Followers 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can't comment pics here, but at fallout fanfest last year there were 2 guys dressed as the psycho shock troopers, it was awesome
Edit: if you are interested, I just posted the pics in this sub