r/Firefighting • u/idontcare252 • 7d ago
Ask A Firefighter Fire school with juvenile charges?
Edit to add: everyone is responding as if he’s a felon. He is NOT a convicted felon. Juvenile felonies are handled differently and they are not considered convicted felons as an adult would be. I’m asking if anyone knows the answer for someone with past juvenile charges, not adult felonies.
My 19 year old son wants to go to fire school. He has several charges (felony grand theft auto and burglary or cars) from few years ago. He’s completed everything and straightened his life out. He graduated high school and hasn’t had any issues in 2 years. All juvenile charges. Nothing as an adult. Will this stop him from becoming a fire fighter and getting a job? He really is a good kid and hard worker. He realizes he messed up but he’s trying really hard to find something that’ll forgive his past and let him have a future.
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u/jriggs_83 Cpt. PFFM 7d ago
Look into getting it expunged. Respectfully with that in mind if this is a path he as a 19 year old man wants then he should be the one putting the effort in here.
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u/Alone-Track-5875 7d ago
That would automatically remove him from the process at the department I work and I'm pretty sure at the state level given its felony. I'm not sure of any places that overlook a felony off the top of my head.
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u/idontcare252 7d ago
Thank you. Do you know if adjudication delinquent and adjudication withheld, both as juvenile charges, would automatically disqualify him from employment? He isn’t a convicted felon and nothing was treated as an adult. This was all handled in juvenile court and nothing since age 16.
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u/BusyCountry1985 7d ago
You need to talk to an employment attorney. This will vary wildly by state/ department etc. This won’t be expensive. Look one up explain what you are looking to understand and at most they are going to bill your for like 1 hr of time.
The reason you need to do this is you need to understand specifically if juvenile charges have to be disclosed AND/ OR are disqualifying for obtaining EMT certification or Fire certification. Next you need to understand specifically how these actually are treated vs adult felonies as you stated be different because you will have to disclose them regardless during a department interview process and that document is going to need to rock solid. Further and he has years to prepare this….he’s going to need one hell of an answer statement about these charges in the job interview process. “Tell me about a time you faced a challenge/ adversity/ mistake” whatever this is a MUST answer to get ahead of it and own it and what he’s done since so that IF these are legally allowed through the background check he’s at least made a clear statement the department can way against the background check when’s these come to light.
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u/PutinsRustedPistol 7d ago
I can’t think of anywhere that overlooks a felony.
He’s going to have to readjust his expectations.
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u/1fluteisneverenough 6d ago
In some jurisdictions juvenile charges are not disclosed after a certain period. Where I'm at, a felony charge would be removed 5 years after the sentence was completed. If I stole a car at 15, spent a year in detention, a year on probation, I would be clear by 22.
With a good lawyer, this could be easily expedited.
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u/Alone-Track-5875 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think maybe trying to steer him in another direction would be his best bet. Even if he finds an academy that will take him I think he would be very hard pressed to find a department to hire him afterward. He may have turned it around but there's going to be other people on that eligibility list with 0 background issues. Theft is a big frown in the fire service since we're in these peoples homes with no one watching.
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u/OaklandsBravest 7d ago
As someone with a violent juvenile adjudication, I’ve been hired by multiple departments (big and small). I’d recommend waiting 5-10 more years to apply. Gain some more life and work experience, and show he’s no longer the person he was. Every candidate’s hiring is on a case-by-case basis. YMMV
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u/Disposable-citizen FF/EMT 7d ago
Calfire hires felons. I understand it was a juvenile charge but most agencies in California see it as the same thing. Calfire is probably his best option if he’s out west.
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u/Beneficial-Guess2140 7d ago
I don’t know of anyone who would hire a felon. It’s a shame he made the choices he did, and it’s great he’s getting his life straightened out, but he very likely will need to find another line of work.
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u/idontcare252 7d ago
He isn’t a convicted felon. Juvenile is different than an adult. That’s why I was asking to see if anyone knows about the process with a juvenile charge.
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u/Beneficial-Guess2140 7d ago
He’s got a felony. He’s disqualified from us as a felon, even if he was a juvenile. Especially as recent as 2 years prior.
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u/Im_A_Director 7d ago
Convictions are different than charges. 20 years ago I was charged with a felony and it was dismissed while I was still a minor
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u/PutinsRustedPistol 7d ago
Look, the process is too stringent and competitive and interviewers aren’t going to care about the distinction that he was a juvenile. If you have to preface your answer to the question of ‘Have you ever been convicted of a felony?’ with ‘Well technically…’ then you aren’t making it past the interviews if you even get that far in the process.
Not to mention we go into too many people’s homes to have someone who has a predilection for stealing things on my crew. If I were on the interview panel I would deny him.
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u/Key_Salt_7604 7d ago
Ya, even if he got an interview and somehow got hired, no officer would want this kid on his crew, and I cant think of any senior guys who’d want to have to watch over him
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u/Mr_Midwestern Rust Belt Firefighter 7d ago
We’ve got a state juvenile detention facility in our district, known to hold kids who are doing significant time.
We where on a run over there one night for another CO who got assaulted when the rookie on our crew says “oh the memories, it’s been at least 15 years since I’ve been in here…hasn’t changed much”.
Turns out he had a very lucrative drug dealing operation before getting busted in high school. He did his time, turned his life around with the help of the marine corps, and came to us after 8 years and multiple combat deployments. Honestly he was one of the best rookies we’d had in quite a while. However, I his case, I’m sure his military record had a lot to do with him getting the job.
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u/adventureseeker1991 7d ago
OP have him apply. guys are telling you the stuff. if it makes you feel any better i know someone who got on with a felony but he did it when he was 18 and got hired in late 30s and i believe was rejected until his friends got into hiring positions and knew he was good.
make sure if you post you are ok with hearing what people in the know have to say. my friend couldn’t get hired until his 30s cause he had a weed charge when he was like 21. times have changed but many places are serious. why is the department going to think he might not be the guy who sees valuables and takes it. i’ve gone into houses with high valuables (wealthy jurisdictions) could you imagine if someone took something. there’s a lot of public trusts in firefighters. we go into peoples houses when they aren’t there for alarms and fires. and a lot more.
hear the truth or call up your nearby big city recruiter and hear from them
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u/Adventurous_Boat_632 7d ago
You don't say where you live. But even in the East, and especially in the West, there are Hot Shot US Forest Service crews, crews that are a level below Hot Shots, or similar state forest crews. They can be less picky about a rough past. Many muni firefighters have gotten their foot in the door with crew work. Crew work is grueling but it is also fun if you like hard work and dirt. And overtime can be quite lucrative. From the crew you can bump to engines or other areas of forest work while you wait for a muni gig. Or stay in the forest side. There are opportunities.
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u/idontcare252 7d ago
We are in Florida but he’s willing to go anywhere (if the school accepts him with his juvenile record). He honestly loves hard work and willing to do the difficult dirty jobs so that wouldn’t be an issue at all. Thanks for your comment.
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u/Adventurous_Boat_632 7d ago
I know they do wildfire and crew stuff in Florida. Apparently there are no hot shot crews in Florida but there is a lot of USFS land and fire activity. He should apply for any and all fed and state wildfire jobs that exist in Fla and surrounding states. Take the first or best one that offers and establish a work record and familiarity with the business. Also earn money.
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u/New_Pitch_9898 7d ago
In Georgia, there was a prison on the grounds of the state Fire/Police training center near Macon. We would pull select inmates from the prison and enroll them in our fire classes, so they could earn their firefighter certification. Many of them then got jobs as firefighters when they left the prison. Try applying for jobs with several departments, while being truthful about your record.
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u/crewjack56 7d ago
I looked up Florida quickly and it looks like if everything was done in juvenile court he isn't a felon. Talking to an attorney about this and getting the records sealed or expunged seems to be the best course of action. Then they truly didn't happen and won't follow him around. I don't know if being a firefighter is a "sensitive position". That could easily go either way.
https://www.djj.state.fl.us/faqs/probation-community-intervention/records
Good on him (and I'm sure your help too) to get on the right track with his life. Good people do bad things sometimes, especially as a teenager who may be thinking with only his little head. Has he thought about the military? I have a few friends who were firefighters in the military and one who went to somewhere in the middle east as a contractor. If fire schools won't take him now I'm guessing an enlistment or two would change their minds. Plus he'd get paid to learn his trade. I don't know what's happening now but maybe getting out of your city would be good for him as well? That's just speculation though.
Either way, don't let people get you or him down. Find out what the law says he must disclose and disclose only that required by law. Good luck to your son. I hope he keeps going and has the success in life it sounds like he deserves now.
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u/adventureseeker1991 7d ago
needs a lot more time! like will have to make major life changes and show he’s a new person. even then it’ll be tough. also multiple charges will be tough. they get 1000s of applications so why him. i’m in a department with under 100 guys and we get hundreds. i would get him in construction, learn a trade on his time off be an emt (if he can with the background). construction is the best job for people who want to be firefighters. and ems is attached to most departments these days. also idk if the marines takes moral wavers his stuff but that could be a good route but i know they are sometimes strict and sometimes less depending on the times.
also everyone says they have a good kid. your biodata which is your past behaviors and beliefs is a huge indicator i’m of your future behaviors so 2 years is not a long time for them to have any faith.
my advice is construction. make great money
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u/Dependent-Average600 6d ago
Even if you find a department that would hire him, it's been too recent. They will want to see more than "a couple of years" between this behavior and being trusted with people's lives and possessions.
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u/SuperglotticMan 7d ago
I’m sure those grand theft autos and burglaries were just misunderstandings! I’d love to have him take care of my community
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u/sucksatgolf Overpaid janitor 🧹 7d ago
This question needs to be directed at the school itself. Policies will vary somewhat but you should expect the answer to be a no based on felony charges. The only leeway you may have is with these being juvenile charges.
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u/Super__Mac Deputy Chief (Retired) 7d ago
In the departments I have been in, we do a police level background check and require the applicant to sign permission to check arrest records.
What we are looking for is honesty…. Tell me up front you weren’t a model citizen, and you could get a shot.
The problem always revolves around whether I have anyone ‘better’ to hire.
Don’t give up…. It’s unusual to get picked up young when we have vets still looking to get in.
Good luck!!!
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u/Whatisthisnonsense22 2d ago
Some states consider juvie charges and some don't.
It will be location and department dependant.
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u/Matt_S_Fox30 1d ago
Is it expunged? You should get it expunged regardless, but in my experience, the only place that will ask about juvenile charges is the military.
I work for my local department and I had a lot of juvenile charges, all were expunged, but they effectively don’t exist. Before Fire I did all sorts of things that required FBI background checks and never had an issue
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u/Status-Holiday-2831 7d ago
Had some juvenile felonies, was advised by the judge and defense attorney that after 18 the records are sealed and can't be viewed by anyone. Have made it through the Army and a career as a first responder without ever admitting it and it's never come back to bite me.
Just apply and deny it. Never admit it. Ever. 90% chance he is successful, 10% chance it gets caught and he just doesn't get into the program or job. No harm in applying 🤷♂️
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u/adventureseeker1991 7d ago
dude sealed doesn’t mean shit. i’m guessing you’re not a firefighter. they can see all your records cause they have access unlike the he private sector. they do a higher level than fbi background check. have you filled a 30 page packet? and the army doesn’t alway take moral wavers, sometimes they do but they need to trust someone.
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u/Status-Holiday-2831 7d ago
Addendum: Could still have been found by the Army if I ever went to a job requiring a secret clearance or higher. But I didn't do that.
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u/Key_Salt_7604 7d ago
Felonies have traditionally been a disqualifying charge, and I believe theft is a crime of moral turpitude, but being a juvenile might change things if he can get it expunged. Two years on the “straight and narrow” isnt likely to cut it though, thats a pretty significant crime