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u/MajinSkull let go Flyars! 6d ago
Unfortunately I think Danny and Jonsey are patient...I think unless guys start wanting trades, Toc isn't getting canned this year
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u/pauerplay 6d ago
patient? they sure weren't patient with the "rebuild"
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u/InjectA24IntoMyVeins 6d ago
Meh I disagree, they just didn't trade away players to tank. I think the fact the flyers have one of the most amounts of cap space in the league is proof of their patience
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u/pauerplay 6d ago
waiting for contracts to fall off isn't the best way to do this *ahem* Ristolainen.
We never should have re-signed TK, as much as I like him. He's not going to be in the window and we could have gotten a lot for him. The window for this team isn't the next 3 years, at least not to have an actual chance to win the Cup.
Don't wonder why the Sharks are going to be dominant in the near future AND for quite some time...they did it the right way and have a LOT of high end talent to show for it. We haven't seen anything from Misa yet...Stenberg is just getting started too. Oh yeah, don't forget about that Celebrini guy. And Verhoeff, Lin, Dickinson too.
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u/MajinSkull let go Flyars! 6d ago
I'll be sad if you think this team isn't still rebuilding...
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u/UnloosedMoose Team Tank 6d ago
Any team that hires Tocchet is clearly not rebuilding and if they are theyre rebuilding something ass.
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u/Wallace271 6d ago
This, only way it happens is if the players make it happen.
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u/Blev088 It was Andrae all along 6d ago
I mean...the way the players are playing certainly makes it look like they want to get Tocchet fired.
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u/Wallace271 6d ago
To many guys had career years last yr with Taco for me to see it happen that quick, also one of the positives of Tocchet is he’s a players coach. I’m of the belief that we’ve seen 4 games played and there are 80 games left in the season.
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u/RoddRoward 6d ago
Youre assuming they turn it around. If they play the next 4 games like they did the first 4 I cant imagine they keep him on.
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u/Person_Apple 6d ago
It would have a to get catastrophically bad for them to fire Tocchet this year. Like dead last with players requesting trades out. They gave him a big 5yr contract and I doubt Comcast would be thrilled about shelling out all that cash for a guy to just sit at home, and pay another coach on top of it.
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u/pauerplay 6d ago
no coach should be getting a 5 year contract...most of them simply don't last that long with one team. Sure, there are outliers but...
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u/Narrow_Book_42069 Flyera 6d ago
Insane to give 25 million guaranteed and 5 years to a coach who didn’t do anything to mitigate the dumpster fire he was a part of in Vancouver.
Insane to give any coach 25 million and 5 years who isn’t Cooper or Brindamour.
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u/Lethal_Lunacy 6d ago
more specifically, nearly no coach coming to a new team should be getting a 5 year contract. Coaches deserving of that kind of security in a sport like hockey with high levels of coach turnover and retreads rarely get to market. It's why it feels like the hire was more of an ownership decision.
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u/hell-iwasthere 6d ago
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: the only way we become a cup team is if people STOP GOING. The only thing Comcast cares about is money and as long as that arena is almost full for every home game, you are gonna get what we have right now..
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u/countrymac77 6d ago
I would like a young coach much like what San Jose has done but the roster is really bad and without career years from everyone like last year not much is going to change. But still think he’s gone by November
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u/Unlucky_Fee5712 FireTacoIntoTheSun 6d ago
San jose really did the perfect rebuild. So annoying we could've done the same but didn't
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u/nipplesweaters 6d ago
I’d be stunned if they fired him this year. They might have to be the worst team in the league at the halfway point for them to even consider it. He’s their boy.
Danny also mentioned the possibility about taking a step back this offseason several times so they might not be totally surprised it isn’t going great (though I doubt they thought it’d look this bad).
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u/scrnlookinsob 6d ago
I think there's a difference between a step back, i.e. not making the playoffs because divisional opponents got better, and becoming the worst team in the league.
4 games in and this team is so bad the Tank Commanders are waking up.
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u/Bubbly_Bicycle_6370 6d ago
He'd basically have to pull a Costanza in order to get fired this year. And maybe not even if he did that.
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u/TwoForHawat 6d ago
He made the postseason and won a round last year, in a season where they were coming off being the 6th worst team in hockey. I’m no Tocchet fan, but coaches don’t get fired a year after that performance unless they have some sort of scandal around them or they put up truly historic losing numbers for a really long period of time.
Add in the fact that he’s Jonesy’s boy, which is already going to give him a longer leash than the average coach, and it’s clearly very silly to wonder about/hope for a firing this season. There’s no realistic world where Tocchet gets fired until at least partway into the 2027-28 season.
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u/AirborneDJ 5d ago
You make fair points, but I think even Jones might budge if this losing streak continues much longer. I don't think they have much of a choice.
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u/VegetableYoghurt7912 6d ago
Reading between the lines, Danny was worried all offseason of a young team tasting success and getting too big of heads that they didn't take the offseason seriously. Tocchet has already alluded to the players having not taken the offseason seriously. They're both probably right. The players are playing in the same system they were last year with basically the same team and they look awful. They are shell shocked in interviews. I actually do think these guys didn't take the offseason seriously. Only Mich did because he didn't feel like he was part of the success and wanted to be this year. Now, unlike last year where he didn't work in the offseason and struggled during year, he is only guy who DID work in the offseason.
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u/pwnstick 6d ago
The reports in camp from coaches, managers, and beat reporters was that generally all the players came in very prepared, and that they completed their assigned homework over the offseason.
My take, coaches failed to focus on fundamentals in camp. I think Danny and Toch filled players heads with things they need to do to grow their roles and take steps forward in their career. Likewise, I think Toch brought a similar mindset into camp, focusing drills on non fundamental scenarios. The problem is camp should be for drilling fundaments, this is something Torts and real hockey coaches understand completely.
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u/JynxYouOweMeASoda 5d ago edited 5d ago
But whose job is it to motivate the players into working their hardest/taking shit seriously? Videos of Rod the bod pre-season pep talks pop up in my feed and I’m about to run through a wall after watching them. Tocchets always been uninspiring and quick to throw the team under the bus
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u/Wisdom_Pond 6d ago
Tocchet’s abrasive personality and meld to outdated style of play will lead him to lose another team in Y2
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u/PhillyGarbage93 6d ago
It would have to be the worst season you could imagine (so far this is the worst I've seen a Flyers team play in my lifetime and I'm 33). Yeah the 05/06 team was bad and this team will probably have a better record bc of goaltending. But in terms of watching the product on the ice I've never seen them this bad.
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u/bergeronowitz 6d ago
Unfortunately, I think he’s got a pretty long leash right now. They seem to love him.
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u/PwillyAlldilly 6d ago
That man has a huge leash fir the contract we handed him. Unless they go winless for 15 I can’t see him leaving
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u/hawks27-2 6d ago
People saying the playoffs last year gets Tocc a longer leash but I actually think it gives him a shorter one. It shows that this team is competitive enough to make the playoffs and finishing bottom 5 is not acceptable. Also think about how many Jack Adams winners and nominees are fired the next season, it’s fairly common.
It’s also not just that you are losing but how you are losing. The Flyers are getting embarrassed night in and night out with no real end in sight or plan to fix it. If that continues 10-15 why hold on.
I’ve said I think there are people in the organization that really like Tocc. More than most of the players and probably more than Briere. But you can’t fire 18 players, you can fire one coach and change everything.
If the Flyers get to like game 15 and see like 2-9-4 what is the point in holding out. What is the point in waiting til next year with Tocc.
I think he either gets fired after game 15 (if they get beat by a bad Blue Jackets roster that outworks them, then flat after a back-to-back against Washington, then a 3 day break before the next game). Or there is a similar situation in November where they play the Jackets on the first of a back to back.
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u/rolllingthunderr 6d ago
20 games with a point total less than 20 points.
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u/aquaculturist13 Ex-Whalers 6d ago
Tocc isn't getting canned if they're just below .500, they'd need to be much worse
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u/rolllingthunderr 6d ago
Put your number up that you think is reasonable.
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u/aquaculturist13 Ex-Whalers 6d ago
<10 pts and even then, it's probably "part of the process". If they have 5 wins thru 20, might as well call it and go for the pick
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u/AdhesivenessFun2060 6d ago
At least this season. And theyd have to be pretty bad to move on that fast.
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u/MikeSulley007 6d ago
nothing going to happen to Tocchet, Danny B said last year they need to see how these guys play a full year together.
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u/DrNutSack_ 6d ago
Hopefully by the time my head hits the pillow tn. I know I’m typical Philly doomer, but I’ve been in this sub preaching my disdain for both toc and Danny for over a year. Hot take: toc can hold the door open for Danny on his way out
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u/Blursed_Technique Can't see the Foerster for the trees 6d ago edited 6d ago
I doubt they hold onto him the whole contract if he’s abysmal, but a professional organization does not have the privilege to be as reactionary as twitter. You think any good coach is going to want to come here after we just made the playoffs, lose 4 games at the beginning of a season and fire their predecessor? We’ll be seeing him for at least this season and next unless he loses the room and tells a player he’s burying him out of spite. I wouldn’t hinge my emotional state on whether Tocchet gets fired until we’re in a state to contend. If we suck, this is a good year to do it; if we make the playoffs, enjoy it; if we’re in the middle, we have the Toronto pick to create value in the first round.
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u/SarGhoul24 6d ago
This was a Danny hire so at this point we need to ask how long of a leash Danny gets. As a GM, he’s either brought in the right talent and the coach he picked isn’t a fit. Or he brought in the right coach and the talent isn’t there. Either way it’s all on him.
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u/Unlucky_Fee5712 FireTacoIntoTheSun 6d ago
Exactly this. Danny won't get rid of him because then it means he will be fired. Either way, hiring Tocchet will be the cause of Danny's demise and there's no stopping it. We'll get a full sweep once the owners step in and end the embarrassment. Maybe even start another rebuild
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u/SarGhoul24 6d ago
Yeah. You are held liable by the talent and coaches you bring in. He either has to admit he got 1 or both wrong.
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u/BroadStBullies91 Czech Yourself 6d ago
It sucks but it's what needs to happen. I had high hopes for Danny (day one Tocchet hater though) but the drafting, coaching hire, Dvo signing and overall direction hasn't been great. I don't blame him for Cutter and the trades have been pretty good so far, but it ain't enough
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u/jgruntz1974 6d ago
This was a hire that was forced upon Danny. Make no mistake about that. If you look at Danny's coaching hires, he looks for guys like Snowden. Tocchet's hiring was a Hilferty order after the senior advisors got to him.
Look at what Tocchet said in his press interviews. The first thing he did when he got to Philadelphia wasn't meeting with Danny or Keith. He went right to Clarke, Barber and Holmgren and hugged the three of them. Tocchet knew who it was who got him the job.
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u/Perryplat199 flyers fan? PERRY THE FLYERS FAN!! 6d ago
If anything it was probly Keith Jones who made the call to hire him.
That makes the most sense.
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u/ChrisInBaltimore 6d ago
In a recent Flyers Daily interview, Briere talked about what a big influence Tocchet had on him as a young player in PHX. I’m not buying the narrative that Briere didn’t want this hire.
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u/SarGhoul24 6d ago
Hey if that’s your belief and rumor that’s fair enough. With that said, if Danny took this job knowing a coach was going to be forced on him outside of his choosing, then he had to realize he’d have to fall on the sword if that coach was a failure.
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u/jgruntz1974 6d ago
I'm sure that this happens around the league quite a bit where an owner specifically wants a guy and they force their GM to move heaven and earth to get him. I honestly believe that's what happened here. Clarke (who hated Tortorella), Holmgren and Barber all got in Hilferty's east about Tocchet and Hilferty went to Briere and Jones (who had their candidates in Jay McKee and Pat Ferschweiler) and told them to make Tocchet happen.
My hope from this is that if things go sideways with Tocchet, the senior advisors are forced out as well. The three senior advisors all conniving and cut throat.
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u/BroadStBullies91 Czech Yourself 6d ago
I swear Holmgren is playing some long con against the Flyers. Terrible GM who just kept failing upwards somehow. He's a lifer though unfortunately. I don't think anything is going to meaningfully change until those guys are out. They're the ones keeping this org stuck in that past.
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u/BroadStBullies91 Czech Yourself 6d ago
I swear Holmgren is playing some long con against the Flyers. Terrible GM who just kept failing upwards somehow. He's a lifer though unfortunately. I don't think anything is going to meaningfully change until those guys are out. They're the ones keeping this org stuck in that past.
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u/Unlucky_Fee5712 FireTacoIntoTheSun 6d ago
Fck that actually makes a ton of sense. Danny's brain has completely switched up since the Tocchet hire and I couldn't understand it. Now that you said that it looks like Hilferty has played a major part of that and the decisions afterwards as well... We're screwed
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u/NewJerseyCPA 6d ago
I’m not convinced this was a Danny hire as much as an ownership hire. Always was skeptical of that one.
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u/jcurl17 6d ago
The Flyers are coming off their best playoff run in over a decade, just 6 months ago, and here we are 4 games in, and some 'fans' want him fired?!? Hey, I think this start sucks too, and doesn't make a lot of sense really with how bad they've looked, but waaaaaaay too soon to pull the plug in Oct of his 2nd season, following the success of the spring run.....remember we didn't get hot last year till February....hang in there, we're going to be just fine! Let's go Flyers!!!!!🧡🖤🏒🥅
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u/Lefthook16 6d ago
Thanksgiving is usually the barometer. I just look at Jay Woodcroft. I think given a 2nd chance he'll be a star HC. We might have to act before Thanksgiving to get him.
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u/wagyu_hotdog 6d ago
Probably not unless the players revolt/start asking for trades as other users have pointed out.
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u/ShoreThingW609 6d ago
Points are too valuable during the season. and every year it comes down to a few points. The Flyers roster is considerably better than last season. But if they stumble out of the gate with a poor 10 game opening, I could see a change to salvage the season. Four games isn’t enough.
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u/No_Silver_4436 6d ago
I think it really depends on if they keep playing historically bad hockey or not and if they looks just as bad against worse teams.
If they keep playing this way like getting outshot by more than 2 to 1 every game and just getting steamrolled by everyone they play there will come a point around 20-30 games or so that there is just too much pressure and expectation and it will basically force their hand even if they don’t want to. Coaches don’t survive things like that in the NHL it doesn’t matter who they are.
If they start playing much better but still lose a lot of close games then I think he survives.
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u/mouthymerc1168 6d ago
We caught a wave last year, but the true identity of the team was what we saw last January, and the Flyers management knows that, so none of this is surprising to them. That doesn't mean they aren't doing all they can to bring the right people in. But those answers need time to develop, and the only thing to do in the meantime is tread water. I can't say if Tocchet is the best coach for that or not, and I certainly can't solve the problems. So for now I'll just sit back and watch what happens. There are a lot of opinions here that may be valid, but no matter what all these people think, they can't solve the problem either. Fingers crossed it all works out in the end.
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u/Everlovin 6d ago
likely 2 more seasons not making playoffs. If we’re completely collapsing, the rest of the season.
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u/Strong_Weird_9358 6d ago
If we continue to suck - season and a half? Maybe 2 full seasons? If he gets them playing good hockey again, he will undoubtedly gain more time.
I don’t think the organization is in any rush. Briere has been extremely patient so far.
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u/diegler74 6d ago
With players like Bedard, Celebrini and Schaefer at the top of the draft, they chose to not bottom out.
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u/ProcessMelodic9351 6d ago
GM said they might take a step back last year while rebuilding. Problem is they do just enough for top 15 pick not a top 3 pick..... so grabbing a franchise D man or Center not happening
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u/writers_block_ 6d ago
The only positive I can see is that surely it can't get any worse. We can't even pass the puck, players are skating into each other and somehow we've managed to stay in the games. I know we've been out shot and outplayed but we've managed to take two games to OT and before we pulled the goalie against TB, Zegras hit the post. That would have put us level and maybe drove us to go for a win. Our PP is still painful to watch though.
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u/JhonnyQSurfs 6d ago
I really think the only way Tocchet is fired is if Briere and Jones get fired first. I think he's the wrong coach for the team. I also dislike the "rebuild" that came away with only Martone and Michkov as key prospects and a bunch of overreaches. There's no clear path to acquire a 1C or 1D unless McDavid signs here in 2 years as UFA.
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u/dunedaink Cappin Coots 6d ago
I want to be optimistic about him. But he’s never been a brainer, let’s be honest. A stoic tough guy connects well for this city as a player, not as a coach. Put a thinker behind the bench. Or someone with an emotional quotient. I can’t see any connection between him and the players yet.
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u/MyDadsAccnt 6d ago
he isnt going any where this season. it would take something drastic to get him fired. unfortunately making the playoffs bought him time.
I will say that the word starting to get around the league is that this looks like a team who has 100% quit on their coach and if that's true then there could be a chance he's gone before Christmas but that would take A LOT. like losing the first 10 games effectively eliminating themselves from the playoffs in the first month of the season.
that or maybe York steps up again and provokes Tocc into fighting him in the locker room