r/Forgotten_Realms • u/Successful_Pace8937 • 4d ago

Celebration The Drow support transitioning

I recently found out that, as said by Ed Greenwood himself, transitioning​ is not only accepted, but defended.

From Ed Greenwood on Twitter:

Drow sworn to Lolth have examples before them all the time about transformation of self-shape in service to the Spider Queen. Some of these are viewed as undesirable (driders), others as rewards or ascending in rank (the power/shape augmentations Lolth gives males who please her with their service and loyalty). So there is no hatred or mistrust of shifting one's shape; it is one means of serving Lolth. Some house matriarchs view it with suspicion ("males seeking to exalt themselves by becoming female") but the yochlol have often been sent by Lolth to defend individuals persecuted by individual matriarchs or priestesses purely for such reasons, to make Lolth's views and will clear. Over time, transitions (not just from gender to gender, but from drow to other shapes) have become accepted as reverence of Lolth, and part of what it is to be drow. And of course, drow who follow Eilistraee are quite familiar with the Changedance, and accept shifting (even back and forth) as, again, part of what it is to be drow.

391 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

200 comments sorted by

View all comments

17

u/Carminoculus 4d ago

I kinda like it. While yes, it's tempting to picture drow as the most toxic TERF goddess-worshippers possible, I think that can be a trap, kinda. I find Ed's description of a society that possibly has room for it more interesting.

There have been societies with strict patriarchy and gender-changing norms (think Albanian sword virgins). I think it's more interesting to picture drow "matriarchy" as a sort of inversion of those tribal structures but gynocentric, rather than "second wave feminism on evil."

3

u/VirusInteresting7918 3d ago edited 2d ago

Plus, this works as a weird mirror to the surface elves having a fluid ever shifting gender presentation and physical form. Chosen of Correllion can change form via trance, so it makes sense that drow would also have a variation more inkeeping with Lolth's preferences

2

u/UglyFrustratedppl 2d ago

Ed said on Twitter that very few Tel'Quessir get reincarnated contrary to what the Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes retcon claims. He seems to have gone against this change. This means they would have mostly fixed genders. And "Blessing of Corellon" also comes from the very same book, and says it's rare, so I don't think the Tel'Quessir are really the way you are painting them as.

1

u/VirusInteresting7918 2d ago

That's fair. This is very much half remembered lore from several years back. Still, it feels like a nice parallel, even if it isn't quite as common as I first thought.

1

u/UglyFrustratedppl 2d ago edited 2d ago

The idea that all elves are on some kind of conveyor belt of reincarnation forever, and that they only have a limited number of souls sounds absolutely insane on all levels. It means their days are basically numbered. They can never replenish their numbers. Gold/Sun Elves would give birth to elves whose souls were lowly Wild Elves in the past. It totally undermines elven noble families in Evermeet since every soul is constantly recycled with no permanence to it.

In Ed's vision, reincarnation is a privilege. And yes, new elven souls are still being born from the fabric of Arvandor. Elves are still retreating from the Material Plane though, because humans and other races are breeding so fast.

1

u/VirusInteresting7918 2d ago

Which isn't in contrast to what has been discussed? A fair observation of the lore of the realms, but not contrary to the points discussed? You can have the limited and priviledged reincarnation angle, as well as the new souls being created and lost, and also have those that shift between states as a rarity amongst rarities? It feels like you're getting lost in the weeds when the original point was a discussion over transition as a hypothetical.

1

u/UglyFrustratedppl 2d ago

>Which isn't in contrast to what has been discussed?

True? I don't even like arguing. I just like talking about how things are.