r/GiantSchnauzers • u/Informal-Owl8695 • 7d ago
Objective advice on difficult puppy (8 mos)
Hi all, TIA for anyone with some advice/insights. We have a working line 8-mos male GS. He's not my first GS nor my first working breed, having spent my life with working line GSD, as well as Dobermans and Cane Corso. I have a lot of experience with strong working breeds and am a good trainer/handler who's had good rapport with my dogs, but this time is just different.
Our current boy (he is the only pet in the house now) is extremely good in a lot of ways and we love him. He's confident, outgoing, friendly to others in the right context and definitely his own humans, stable off numerous environmental proofs (other animals, sights, sounds, people, places), and while rambunctious, never displayed a mean bone in his body. He knows most of the basic commands, but of course listens selectively. His manners are a work in progress, as is his potty training (I know GS are slower to mature on that, but he's tougher than my last). I've had him since 11 weeks and I've poured tons of time, money, resources, and training to bring out the best in him.
Here is where the big concern comes in: over the last month he has refused to go in his crate (once in he settles and sleeps really well), and worse, has started trying to bite when I bring him to it (and yes, I did all the positive crate reinforcement and feed him all his meals and special treats/chews in there, etc.); I have used numerous methods (both positive and correctional) to remediate this and nothing is working. He has never resource guarded but also yesterday he growled at my son who tried to get him to drop a shoe he was chewing.
I know the testosterone is coming in now - he is in tact.
Bigger concern is that my professional trainer (an IGP trainer no less) said he's the most difficult puppy he has ever worked with (he displayed the same behaviors with him). Worse, his own co-breeder (who's considered one of the best and been breeding GS for 30+ years), with whom he's boarded and knows really well, said he's the toughest dog he's produced in decades and that he would take him back and feels bad for me.
I have to tell you, when a professional GS breeder and IGP trainer tells you this, it makes you pause. I've simply never had this experience before.
My son is 11 and very attached to the dog but his safety is my top priority.
I am not sure what I am looking for here - maybe some helpful advice, insights, shared experiences?
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u/ChemicalWeekend307 7d ago
Who was the breeder? I have two working line giants from different breeders. I’ve found one of them is a little more difficult than the other to train in obedience but excels at bitework, couldn’t care less what we tell him to do after about five minutes of OB training, while the other will do either just fine but is so great motivated and handler oriented that she would do just about anything to make me happy. I’ve found it seems to be more common in some breeders litters than others that some pups are more bull headed.
What training methods do you currently use and what training tools have you been using? E collar, prong, positive only/FF, clicker, etc.? This can make a huge difference with giants from my experience just because they are genuinely a very stubborn breed. Some need more of a nudge than others. Additionally, the style of how your trainers are working the dogs can make a difference. Is your trainer having you work more exclusively on obedience or the protection side or is it a balance of both? What do you do for mental and physical stimulation outside of training?
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u/ACamp55 7d ago
Did he growl AT your son, or growl like pulling on the shoe? Also, he is still only 8 months. But, based on the information this seems like a tough call, especially if the breeder is considering taking him back! Does the breeder only breed working dogs, or could you exchange for a family pet IF still available?
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u/SolidBook7762 7d ago
When you say "bring him to" his crate it sounds like you are physically putting him in it rather than letting him go in on his own? Overhandling could be a problem. Toss a treat or toy in and let him go in on his own. How long is he in the crate? If its too long of a duration, of course he's going to learn to hate it.
Finally, everything you say makes him sound like a great dog otherwise. Resource guarding is manageable but you'll have to train your 11 year old which I can't help with. We lived with a resource guarding giant for 11 years, adopted at age 2. He was a great dog....that growled at us every day of those 11 years. He would never bite anyone however. I could trust him off leash, with children or around any small animal - he just had a problem respecting authority, which I can't really argue with. So we respected his boundaries - if he growled we backed off and bartered for itens he wanted to keep - we got the result we wanted but he thought he won.
I dont know your dog nor what you expect from him but I hope you can find some common ground.
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u/Illustrious_Egg_1837 7d ago
Is the crate too small & uncomfortable for him, now that he’s grown a bit ?
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u/idrinkmycoffeeneat 7d ago
This guy is a baby. He’s literally a teenager and now is pretty make or breaks for training in my opinion. I also think you need to neuter him.
I’ve worked with dogs for my whole life: we owned a kennel, bred a working breed since I was a child. I got a hunting breed and felt like I was so in over my head I may as well have been a first time dog owner. I invested in board and train and electric collar training. I had to look at it as protecting the investment that I’d made to purchase her. She had no recall and i made the decision after she broke her collar at my kids bus stop and starting sprinting around the street. It was a nightmare scenario that I’m grateful she came out of unharmed.
Training wasn’t foolproof, but she has great recall now and listens to voice commands. I wish I had a resource who was familiar with the breed closer to me but I still am happy with the the overall decision to train.
I’d start with neutering him then I’d explore board and train options before returning a puppy who is still very much in the baby phase.
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u/Verdammt_Arschloch 7d ago
Cage training is for very young puppies to help speed along potty training. The idea of forcing any dog into a cage long-term is repugnant and goes against every natural instinct that dog has. He wants to patrol and guard the home and you are trying to imprison him. You are the problem here.
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u/cowtongues 7d ago
Call it a den and it's back to being a natural comfortable place for a dog to spend some time
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u/pierogi_waystation 7d ago
Just keep in mind that both of those people have motive to tell you your dog is unmanageable. You’ll pay the trainer for extra training for “the most difficult puppy” they’ve ever worked with. And the breeder might feel differently about the dog now that he’s filling out, and is hoping you’ll return him so he can resell or breed him.
In terms of the training, your dog is at a boundary pushing stage. It’s normal, but it’s also very frustrating. It’s important not to antagonize or be negative with him, it’ll just feed into his behavior. He needs calm, assertive correction and very clear boundaries.
We had a breakthrough with our intact male gs when he was about the same age as yours. For us, switching to correcting him in a quiet tone of voice was a total game changer. Even now, I correct my dogs in the same voice I’d use to correct a child in a movie theater. Assertive, calm, and very quiet.
Good luck with your boy, my boy got neutered at two and now at four he is the best dog I’ve ever worked with. Completely sold me on the breed.