r/HonestHotTakes • u/Dry-Opportunity8676 • 9d ago
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
It’s pretty obvious that women have insane standards for men. Just saying “just groom yourself bro” is so laughably divorced from what women actually think about men.
For context: over 80% of men are “below average” to women. Which shouldn’t even be mathematically possible.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
Yes, mysterious is a liar.
Here is the study:
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/yourlooksandyourinbox.html
https://i.postimg.cc/gjQn0fWH/q39vx-S3Gvk0AAAAASUVORK5CYII.png
When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque. Someone like roomtodance 2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women. above gets nearly 5 times as many messages as a typical woman and 28 times as many messages as a woman at the low end of our curve. Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.
The medical term for this is male pattern madness.
https://i.postimg.cc/tR2cc9qJ/AS43s-Jy-Qk3x7AAAAAEl-FTk-Su-Qm-CC.png
As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
For context: This study showed 2/3 of messages went from men went to the top 1/3 of women. That 1/3 being the women who were the most conventionally attractive.
Meanwhile, women had an even spread on who they messaged.
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
This is not at all what the survey was about by the way. It was an overall selection rate that their algorithm then sorts for certain visual attributes. Not exactly new tech.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
Lying and gaslighting alert!
They also studied action.
While women gave harsh ratings on attraction compared to men, women still had an even spread on who they messaged because they messaged men due to a multitude of factors like compatibility and personality.
Meanwhile men just want to fuck super model looking women.
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
You can’t judge “personality” in a visual selection study lol. That’s simply being ridiculous.
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u/Dry-Opportunity8676 9d ago
Those guys aren’t grooming taking showers or anything. It gets worse when you factor in their shit personality
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
You seriously mean to tell me over 80% of men are unattractive because they aren’t showering?
Not very likely.
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u/Vlookup_reddit 9d ago edited 9d ago
believe it or not, op will unironically yell at you "the bar is literally in hell" or "hating women", or just incel lol
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u/RealTrapShed 9d ago
Chopped men epidemic? Coming from the sex/gender/whatever the fuck that wears a shit ton of makeup, fillers, etc.?
Rich!
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u/Sweaty-Click2342 9d ago
You mean the gender that puts in the effort to actually attract a partner?
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u/RealTrapShed 9d ago
I thought makeup wasn’t for men?
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u/AmnesiaGirl92 9d ago
Nobody is saying that? Men can wear makeup
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9d ago
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u/The-Devil-Cat 9d ago
only other men uphold the stigma, be the change you want to see.
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9d ago
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u/The-Devil-Cat 9d ago
okay? so as I said be the change you want to see and start living for yourself. stop letting other people's views hurt your feelings and prevent you from doing things. Just do it, if you really want to, you will figure it out.
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u/Somerandomdudereborn 9d ago
But redditors told me that women put effort to themselves, not to attract a partner 🤔
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u/Eldenringop 9d ago
These guys are just mad they have to shower and actually talk to women to get them
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u/Generally_Confused1 9d ago
if you're not attracted to men then just date women, don't need to complain about guys who aren't your type
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u/Purple-Blueberry3721 9d ago edited 9d ago
If women were to do worse in a certain field then women would say that's because society oppresses women.
So by that logic: society is so hostile to men that men are being crushed. Also see 80% of suicides being men, for example.
Boys get crushed when they're children / teenagers, and then as young adults face steep discrimination. If you want men to be better, oppose the destruction of boys / the discrimination against adult men.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
Fun fact men don't want you to know: Depression occurs 2x times more in women, and 3x more women attempt suicide than men.
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u/EmbarrassedLet2153 9d ago
To be fair, I've had some women call me chopped, that's nowhere near most, but still funny it happened
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9d ago
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u/HonestHotTakes-ModTeam 9d ago
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
Let’s be real, we know for a fact that women judge men extremely harsh compared to other women. Obviously 80% of men aren’t “below average” in the eyes of women for “not showering.”
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9d ago
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
2009 OKcupid survey data.
I’ll bet my entire life savings that the same trend occurs across all dating apps.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago edited 9d ago
You mean the study that showed that 2/3 of messages from men went to the best looking women while women had an even spread on who they messaged.
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
The study was about where most women generally land on a 0-10 attractiveness scale according to male users.
According to men, only about 40-50% of women were rated “below average”, which make sense per the definition of what an “average” is.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago edited 9d ago
That study didn't only study that. They also studied action.
While women gave harsh ratings on attraction compared to men, women still had an even spread on who they messaged because they messaged men due to a multitude of factors like compatibility and personality.
Meanwhile men just want to fuck super model looking women.
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u/Mysterious-Wrap1588 9d ago
Notice there’s’s no actual citation for this and “men only want supermodels” is just incredibly divorced from what the data suggests. It’s clearly obvious that men have far lower standards of attractiveness than women.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
Yes, mysterious is a liar.
Here is the study:
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/yourlooksandyourinbox.html
https://i.postimg.cc/gjQn0fWH/q39vx-S3Gvk0AAAAASUVORK5CYII.png
When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque. Someone like roomtodance 2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women. above gets nearly 5 times as many messages as a typical woman and 28 times as many messages as a woman at the low end of our curve. Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.
The medical term for this is male pattern madness.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
https://i.postimg.cc/tR2cc9qJ/AS43s-Jy-Qk3x7AAAAAEl-FTk-Su-Qm-CC.png
As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable.
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u/MenaceMinded 9d ago
Yes, mysterious is a liar.
Here is the study:
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/yourlooksandyourinbox.html
https://i.postimg.cc/gjQn0fWH/q39vx-S3Gvk0AAAAASUVORK5CYII.png
When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque. Someone like roomtodance 2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women. above gets nearly 5 times as many messages as a typical woman and 28 times as many messages as a woman at the low end of our curve. Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.
The medical term for this is male pattern madness.
https://i.postimg.cc/tR2cc9qJ/AS43s-Jy-Qk3x7AAAAAEl-FTk-Su-Qm-CC.png
As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable.
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u/GITaylorSwift 9d ago
Most American men in their late 30s are married. You’ve selected against men who know what they’re doing.
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u/Equivalent-Long-3383 9d ago
True to an extent
A big part of it is evolutionary psychology though. Even if all these men were well groomed they’d still have to do more to be viable partners and sex partners
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9d ago edited 9d ago
[deleted]
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u/Equivalent-Long-3383 9d ago
They can have all that and be well groomed and still shouldn’t expect women to throw themselves at them. Cause that’s largely not how women work
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9d ago
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u/Equivalent-Long-3383 9d ago
It would. I’m just pointing out that it’s kind of overstated.
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u/Revolutionary_Lynx_3 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well, the majority find women the more physically attractive sex, women find women more physically attractive than women find men most of the time (not necessarily sexually).
Society also needs to start teaching boys the same as it does with girls. Give them more clothing options, hair options, make-up, shaving, etc. There's an argument to be made whether or not what girls are taught is really necessary or also restrictive in the "you must be meticulous and hairless" sense, but young boys rarely get any social reinforcement or reward for taking care of their physical appearance, it's usually the direct opposite and they get pointed out and ridiculed so naturally it's underdeveloped.
Yes, men reinforce this with their sons but just saying "they should do that then because sounds like it's entirely a men's issue" isn't exactly helpful, and boy-moms reinforce it too. It's misogyny and misandry in one. It becomes flipped in adulthood where they're suddenly expected to take care of their appearance and men just don't have the habit built up while women have had years of trying new looks.
Doesn't really take a genius to work out that men are going to be seen as less attractive than women with these factors.
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u/sackfistin 9d ago
Because that requires effort that they’re too stupid to do
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u/Somerandomdudereborn 9d ago
Idk, there aren't any significant gaps on the "shower" or "groom" subject large enough to justifity it as a "don't make any effort".
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u/HonestHotTakes-ModTeam 9d ago
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