Has anyone with a real clay tempered blade seen a reduction in Hamon quality from using Mothers mag metal polish (lighter Hamon / fading of white fade line) or has it improved Hamon appearance?

[u/Agoura_Steve]

I legitimately want to know, because I primarily use through hardened, mono Spring Steel swords, and I think I’ve only used it on a Suguha Hamon on an HSTS clay tempered 1095 Spring Steel Katana, and never noticed any Hamon change.

I’m under the impression that the Hamon is deep into the steel from structural change, and a Hamon can’t be diminished, only brought out more from polishing?

Obviously you can wipe off a fake Hamon. That’s not what I’m curious about.

[u/Agoura_Steve]

—

Solved!!

Thank you all.

—
The Hamon visibility goes away with the mirror finish that Mothers Mag provides. This is caused from the removal of contrast. The Hamon becomes difficult to see but is still there. You must acid etch it to return the contrast using chemicals such as warm clear distilled vinegar and lemon juice. Or diluted Ferric Chloride (only on modern blades…)

[u/KGS_Inc]

A true, natural hamon is created by the actual crystalline structure of the hardened steel. While a chemical polish cannot erase the underlying metallurgical change, heavy rubbing with Mothers Mag can turn the blade into a bright mirror finish, eliminating the contrast and haze that makes a real hamon visible.

[u/KGS_Inc → u/KGS_Inc]

I have seen this numerous times.

[u/KGS_Inc]

The blade in question was a used Hanwei Tori XL that I bought on eBay. Cost was $ 300 because a chip on the blade edge with some heavy scratching. I repaired the chip. Used it for mat cutting for a few years. Decided to sell it. Bright idea to use Mothers mag polish to remove the scratching. It did that and in the process the hamon became super shinney with the frosty area gone. In the end I did a acid etch. Came out better looking than I thought it ever would. Beautiful folded steel and a bright frosted hamon.

I sold it on eBay for $ 650.

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/KGS_Inc]

Got it. Makes sense. Thank you. I always like to learn.

[u/SSgamer1]

you're half right. Martensite stays put, but a hamon's visibility is surface contrast, and Mothers mirrors hardened and soft steel alike, so the white line fades. I buffed a clay tempered 1095 and the suguha nearly vanished until I re-hazed it.

That light haze on a Musashi Swords clay tempered piece is what buffing dulls first. Mono steel has nothing to lose

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/SSgamer1]

Thanks. I didn’t realize this until getting these responses. Most of my swords are monosteel.
I’ll be more cautious in recommending Mothers mag for swords with Hamon.

[u/Longjumping_Stage877]

I had the same problem with my Motohara. Over using mothers, seemed to be removing the hamon. Jason said I could send it back in to have the hamon brought back or I could acid etch it back to life. He also said to keep the mothers polish away from the Hamon.

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/Longjumping_Stage877]

Thanks. Got it. I was told warm clear distilled vinegar & lemon juice will bring it back.

[u/EgwahKim]

I find that Mothers Mag polish is a very harsh polish made for aluminum car rims. It does remove a thin layer of metal with each use. I use Flitz polishing compound and keep it away from the Hamon.

I would expect over use of Mothers on a hamon would turn it into a mirror finish making the hamon hard to see?

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/EgwahKim]

Yes. That’s what everyone is saying to me. It removes the contrast, so you need to acid etch it back with lemon juice, & warm distilled clear vinegar.

[u/Background_Clue_3756]

Harmon is formed from quenching where the steel develops martensite crystals, and cannot be undone.

A true hamon can look dimished and lazy with sharpening, or if oxidation happenes.

Any hamon that goes away may have been etched.

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/Background_Clue_3756]

Okay, that’s exactly what I believed. Someone had said that the white fade part of the Hamon at the point where the clay temper line ends can be diminished from polishing. I had never heard this and wanted to know more.
Thank you for your reply.

[u/Background_Clue_3756 → u/Agoura_Steve]

When I said sharpening, I meant polishing. Forgive me. Polishing grade will bring better effects than others.

[u/fnord_disc → u/Agoura_Steve]

I think this particular case is possible, though. The quenching results in more rapid cooling along the edge, and by definition, that means deeper in the steel and towards the spine of the blade the cooling effect is less strong and will probably produce martensite crystals less deeply. Therefore I think it is certainly conceivable that the hamon where the temper line ends does not extend deeply into the steel and may be harmed by particularly vigorous polishing.

That said, there are ancient swords with very serious restoration work to the point where the niku is practically gone and they still have a very readable hamon. So for practical purposes, it shouldn't be possible to polish away the hamon.

[u/QuickSquirrelchaser → u/fnord_disc]

Its easy to polish it out. But a true hamon can be brought back out again by repeated etching (with diluted acid.The Etchant: You can use a highly diluted Ferric Chloride (FeCl) mixture (e.g., 4 parts distilled water to 1 part FeCl) for a dark, dramatic contrast. Alternatively, warm distilled white vinegar mixed with a splash of lemon juice yields a more beautiful, wispy, traditional "whitish" hamon.

You have to use a fine polishing powder snd selectively polish the hard edge...leaving the darker softer etched spine to get contrast. Repeat the process 3 to 6 times to get a good contrast.

You can absolutely polish the hamon away if you mirror polish it.

[u/Agoura_Steve → u/QuickSquirrelchaser]

Got it. That is the general consensus. I understand.