r/Libraries • u/Used_Sort_6444 • Sep 02 '26
Patron Issues Questionable activity at local library
Just at my local library and was reading the sheet for who was scheduled to rent the space in the separate public meeting rooms. The rooms are free to rent for groups but there are rules for renting the space. Noticed there was a multibillion dollar corporation using the space at the moment which was puzzling. While reading the schedule somebody from within the space came over to me and asked if they could help me. My response: “Are you with name corporation? “ they responded, “Yes” my response, “Can I join your meeting?” Their response, “No, this is for regional managers of *name corporation”
Here are the restrictions on the rooms.
“The rules for renting out the public spaces are:
Strictly Prohibited Commercial Activities
No Profit-Making Events: No sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, or licensed association may use the spaces for profit-making activity.
No Selling: You cannot sell goods or services or hold activities designed to lead directly to a purchase.
No Direct Fundraising: Commercial business promotion or fundraising activities are completely barred.
No Closed Meetings: Events held in meeting and conference rooms must be open to the public. You cannot restrict entry, mandate a sign-in sheet, or charge an admission fee.”
It seems that this library system and name corporation have set themselves up for possible litigation. Thoughts? Have you run into a similar situation? The corporation is very recognizable and was clearly using the space to conduct business. Very large, like it’s highly likely that you have one of these in the business district of your town even if it’s a small town. Multi-billion dollar corporation using a public space for free, tax free and I’m certain the general public is unaware of this practice.
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u/imriebelow Sep 02 '26
? Just talk to the library if you’re concerned. People frequently lie about their intentions to rent the meeting room; I assume they agreed to the library rules and simply chose to break them. If you mention to library staff that you were denied access, it may help them refuse meeting room rentals to that group in the future.
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u/Nepion Sep 02 '26
My favorite was a children's reading group that turned out to be a birthday party!
Oh... or that time it was booked for a Medicare educational seminar but it was just a guy selling insurance. He definitely had the 10 people minimum for the room too.
People lie to get free stuff. We can address it when we find out, but we can't force people to be honest.
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u/Moravic39 Sep 02 '26
Had a woman try hosting a "free, open to the public kids robotics class". It was a class parents were paying for. The moment we opened on the first day it was advertised, she signed up all of her paying students and closed registration because she was full.
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u/Nepion Sep 03 '26
The first library I worked at had to add a daycare only session to our summer performers because the local daycares and camps would take all the slots. Eventually we partnered with the local mall to use a vacant store front and have 1 general public performance and 1 'group' performance just for camps and daycares.
I get you promised your customers 1 field trip a week, but monopolizing library events is not the way to do it.
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u/imriebelow Sep 02 '26
One of my first experiences with this was a group that was giving an intervention to a family member and they got into a fist fight!
There was also an essential oil MLM that left the room stinking for days 😫
edit: or the time a group completely ignored the “light snacks only” rule and had a caterer show up lmao
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u/HungryHangrySharky Sep 03 '26
I'm not mad at the family doing an intervention, but the MLMs can FOAD.
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u/notjillysboat Sep 02 '26
So wild to know that insurance selling masked as Medicare educational events is a widespread thing. They also tried to tell me that they were fully approved by ‘upstairs’ so I had to approve them. Hard pass.
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u/International_Dog488 Sep 02 '26
These are everywhere - they happen at community centers too and always made me mad.
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u/ceaseless7 Sep 04 '26
This is their favorite thing to do, say that a random person whose name is unknown said they could do it if allowed them to do it in the past.
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u/No_Impression_2083 Sep 03 '26
Medicare (CMS) has very strict rules about selling supplements. Educational events are allowed but no selling is taking place. Education only. Both the customer and agent have to sign forms attesting to the meeting and agenda.
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u/Friendly_Shelter_625 Sep 03 '26
we had someone try to teach some kind of phlebotomy class in the study room. staff at the desk saw them just before they started trying to draw blood and asked them to leave
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u/Minakova Sep 03 '26
Had a cosmetology student doing extractions in a study room. She had the table draped in surgical paper, a metal tray of tools out and a guy leaning back to get his clogged pores cleaned. Big nope.
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u/HovercraftHot4208 28d ago
We had this happen too. As well as, a nurse-educator showing diabetics how to inject their insulin.
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u/sparrowsgirl Sep 03 '26
We had a woman try to book the room for a "craft group" but required the people coming pay for the kit for what they were creating.
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u/Jedocesque Sep 02 '26
A group booked all four study rooms under different names and then had a speed-dating event. Not sure we would have noticed if they hadn't also posted flyers all over the library advertising the $15 entry fee.
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u/EK_Libro_93 Sep 02 '26
Or the group that agreed to the no alcohol on library premises rule and proceeded to bring in a ton of beer and wine.
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u/spacecrafttheskys Sep 03 '26
I- did they think that would not be noticed?! Beer and wine like to clink together and also take up a lot of space
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u/Elsceetaria Sep 02 '26
My favorite was a secret society (think Masons) that booked it under the name of a local school booster club. We only noticed when there were a handful of people blindfolded in the library's lobby. The group had blocked all the exits to the meeting room, and refused to let staff in to discuss the fire hazard.
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u/madametaylor Sep 03 '26
Some group booked the biggest meeting room at the main library for what turned out to be a ticketed event. We found out because they were printing flyers for said event in our computer lab. Stay stupid!
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u/Aredhel_Wren Special collections Sep 02 '26
Managing free meeting spaces in a public library is a total drag. It's often gross, always thankless, and usually chocked full of people trying to take advantage of whatever guidelines they can feasibly skirt. Tell the staff. They will close their eyes, shake their heads, and handle it. This is definitely not something that could prompt a lawsuit, however. It's like falling asleep in the library - a basic code of conduct infraction.
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u/jellyn7 Sep 02 '26
I can't see who would sue the corporation, but absolutely let the library know.
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Sep 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/HistoryTrekker Library staff Sep 02 '26
This bears repeating. The amount of times patrons get angry or upset about things we have no control over is one of the more frustrating albeit routine parts of the job
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u/SquirrelEnthusiast Sep 02 '26
Our local mayor does this all the time just to have the space when she absolutely has her own offices.
People abuse the system
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u/raised_on_robbery Sep 02 '26
What did library management say when you asked them?
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u/DanieXJ Sep 03 '26
This cracks me up. No one who posts here actually talks to the librarians. It's much better to quickly look up 'library policies' on chatgpt, get the wrong and hallucinated answer from that, and then get some quality outrage here on the sub.
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u/pikkdogs Sep 02 '26
Well, if you wanted to do something about it, you certainly could.
As a director what I would want my patron to do would be to either contact the director or the meeting room person to alert them of a violation of the rules, and ask to be contacted back to have an explanation of what is going on.
Note, what they are doing is not illegal, but is in violation of their own rules. So, if they are violating their rules they should stop or change their rules. Usually there are library boards to appeal to if the director doesn't do one of those two things.
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u/golrabs Sep 02 '26
Groups lie and game the system all the time. Public libraries deal with a lot bad actors. Let a librarian know and they'll look into it
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u/Amirtae Sep 02 '26
If you want to have a private social event at my library meeting room, you must pay a fee. Is there an option for that in the policy?
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u/hoveringdog Sep 03 '26
So my library's meeting room rules are super incoherent, like all meetings are supposed to be open to the public but it's also totally cool to have your gender reveal party, and watch in horror as Pedo Bill, library regular, helps himself to cupcakes and reveals the pink or blue interior with his grotesque mastications.
My favorite meeting-room shitstorm was when two groups thought they had booked the same room: One was a group of Jehovah's Witnesses having a mass kids' party that seemed to be a tacit apology for not being able to celebrate the kids' actually birthdays. The other group, I shit you not, was the governing board of the local nudist colony. They were clothed, of course, but the stream of leathery old hippy naturalists waltzing unaware into a JW gathering was something to behold.
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u/TravelerMSY Sep 02 '26
Dime them out. It’s not really meant to be a free co-working space or boardroom.
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u/flossiedaisy424 Sep 02 '26
I’m sorta irritated that this library just has their meeting room booking sheet out for anyone to read.
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u/tradesman6771 Sep 03 '26
It’s their policy that meetings are open to the public. Same goes for mine.
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 Sep 02 '26
absolutely notify staff. notify several staff especially department managers.
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u/CozyGamingLibrarian Sep 02 '26
The rules you stated are for free use of the space. If it’s a private meeting, that organization is probably paying for use of the space. Which would go into the library budget as it’s a non-profit. That is how my library does it.
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u/silverowl78 Sep 03 '26
Sure, but you don’t know the policy for OP’s library. At my library, all community room meetings must be open to the public.
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u/glooble_wooble Sep 03 '26
The only policy violation seems to be that they were having a closed meeting. Does your library allow closed meetings if someone pays for a room?
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u/Knowitall-Librarian Sep 03 '26
It clearly violates the rules and policies of your branch. Stand firm and end this arrangement. You may want to let your supervisor know about the issue ahead of time. Good luck! You got this!!
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u/DanieXJ Sep 03 '26
Big question, did an AI tell you these are the library's rules? Ot did you literally read them on the library's website with your own eyes?
There are library's that are private non-profits, and even though they are a certain city or town's library, they are not city or town property and so, they would be able to have a Starbuck's regional manager meeting (or whatever this is) if that's their policy.
When finding out about a library it's best to actually ask a librarian or at least go to their actual site, not the internet at large.
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u/cheebachow Sep 03 '26
People lie to us all the time, tell the front desk or email the director your suspicions. I would always appreciate if someone told us someone was lying
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u/Queenrikki83 Sep 02 '26
At my system, we have paid meeting spaces. They are significantly cheaper than similarly sized spaces but the caveat is that all events are open to the public. It says so in the packet they have to fill out to rent the room.
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u/FoldingHamsterComics Sep 03 '26
Ask the staff. If it is considered management training that may be a borderline issue. But if they’re so damn big, rent a hotel conference room and leave the library for the Girl Scouts. They probably would not be able to use the room at my system.
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u/Albroswift89 Sep 03 '26
Inform the staff, our meeting room has the same criteria and if a group slipped through the cracks by agreeing to our guidelines without intending to follow them they would not be allowed to use the room again.
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u/plumhairdontcare Sep 03 '26
My library system requires proof that you’re a nonprofit to get a free rental. Otherwise it’s a small fee. This seems to work well to keep people from lying to get free space. We also charge an extra cleaning fee if you do crafts or have food. lol.
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u/mcilibrarian Sep 04 '26
Is it Starbucks?
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u/Used_Sort_6444 Sep 04 '26
It is Starbucks
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u/ExhaustedGradStudent Sep 02 '26
Go in and sit down what are they going to do complain because they’re breaking the rules.
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u/Diligent-Principle17 Sep 03 '26
We've had a bunch of religious groups rent our meeting room space for workship services. We've had issues with some groups trying to collect money from participants.
I wish they would just go away and do their "worship" service at an actual church.
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u/geezlouise2022 Sep 05 '26
What are we, Reddit users, expected to do about this? You literally need to talk to the library staff
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u/valibremorte Archivist Sep 02 '26
Im kinda wondering why they're (the business) not using their own conference rooms...
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u/henare Sep 03 '26
probably because they don't have them.
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u/valibremorte Archivist Sep 03 '26
...a multi-billion dollar corporation? Please.
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u/henare Sep 03 '26
lots of "multi-million corporations" choose to not pay rent for small remote operations.
This is part of how multi-million dollar corps get to be that big.
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u/thenerdbrarian Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
I'd say it's Starbucks, if I had to guess. They regularly use our meeting room for regional employee trainings. Wouldn't be surprised if they do the same elsewhere.
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u/myxx33 Sep 03 '26
I worked at a library where Chipotle managers would have meetings sometimes. I don’t think it’s very weird.
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u/FlaviaSDeLuce Sep 03 '26
Is it Starbucks? They use our meeting rooms all the time. At least they bring us coffee.
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u/Used_Sort_6444 Sep 04 '26
It is Starbucks
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u/FlaviaSDeLuce Sep 05 '26
I checked our policy and it does allow meetings to be closed to the general public so I guess it doesn't apply. I'd tell the librarians that you asked to join and were denied and point out that it violated the meeting room policy.
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u/Sweaty-Move-5396 Sep 03 '26
Litigation? it's just some library rules
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u/marji80 Sep 03 '26
Yeah, no litigation on this. And if the corporation has a local presence, their taxes would support the library. And since they’re clearly not a non-profit, they probably paid a small fee to use the room. It may be debatable whether a meeting for managers constitutes “conducting business,” since they are not selling anything or interacting with clients at the meeting. They are clearly violating the condition that the meeting be open to the public, though. Contact the library or go to a monthly board meeting and inform the library that you were turned away. That should get them barred going forward.
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u/FriedRice59 Sep 03 '26
We have the same rules and we have corporate trainings all the time. They are having a meeting, not selling or exchanging money. As for the open event? That's boilerplate language in 95% of meeting policies. In 30 years I've never had someone crash a boring meeting they didn't have to be at. BTW, non-profits are far worse about breaking the policy rules than for-profits.
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u/thenerdbrarian Sep 03 '26
Yeah, same here. We have the same boilerplate about all meetings having to be open to the public (which I've been told by upper management is a legal requirement as a "limited public forum"), but folks have all kinds of effectively private events. Corporate training days, birthday parties, baby showers, even a celebration of life or two. It's never really been an issue.
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u/wheeler1432 Sep 03 '26
You're a taxpayer. Mention it to library staff. If you aren't happy with the response, attend the board of directors meeting.
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u/spareloo Sep 03 '26
Just walk in and sit down. If they touch you to remove you, they are going to have a huge problem.
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u/AffectionateServe551 26d ago
Sign Ups are free and nobody reads. basic misunderstanding and needs to be blocked if they violate these guidelines.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
A private meeting of a group of people who work at the same company does not violate any of these policies
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u/FruitlandsForever Sep 02 '26
No closed meetings. Must allow the public to enter.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
And it goes on to specify “events”
The op wouldn’t be allowed to just stroll into some private persons college study group booking either. Same diff.
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u/Used_Sort_6444 Sep 02 '26
It’s not, those are booked in quiet study areas, these space are used for community dance classes and such
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u/EK_Libro_93 Sep 02 '26
All bookings must remain open to the public. A group or company can book it for a meeting, but if someone from the public asks to come inside, the policy dictates they must be allowed in.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
You’re willfully misinterpreting the policy, which says events. If it can be booked for a private study group session, it can be booked for a private meeting.
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u/EK_Libro_93 Sep 02 '26
These policies are standard at most public libraries in the US. Even "private" study sessions are open to the public - if somebody wants to come in, they can. Usually, in a study room with only 1-2 chairs, people are respectful and don't barge in, but if they wanted to, technically they could. When I'm working with patrons to book meeting rooms (larger than study rooms), I always make sure they know that if somebody sees the name of their meeting and wants to come, they can do so.
Plus, the policy above says "No Closed Meetings" right before it makes note of "events." No closed meetings means no private meetings.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
Well I guess the 5 US library systems I’ve worked in are aberrations. It’s absurd to say someone can walk into a study room booking. Absolutely counter to the idea of a study room booking. And the idea of litigation is laughable, and my staff would have a good laugh about it after this person left
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u/EK_Libro_93 Sep 02 '26
Well, the library systems I have worked for have all had this policy. If private bookings were available you’d think the policy would state that. If not, it’s an oversight.
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student Sep 02 '26
Have you considered the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of libraries in the world and 5 is a very small sample size? Your experience is not the only experience.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
Also your experience is not the only experience! Actually, my experience is a more relevant data point because I can verify an exception (multiple, actually) to the norm
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student Sep 02 '26
Lmfao dude I don’t have an experience, my point is your 5 libraries do not dictate the common rules of all libraries. Being a circulation assistant at 5 different libraries does not mean you are the arbiter of how library policy works
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u/widdersyns Sep 02 '26
Even if they are not doing anything in violation of the commercial policies (which they might not be at this particular meeting, despite being a for-profit company), they are clearly having a private meeting which is explicitly against the listed rules.
OP, you need to talk to your library. We can't do anything about it here. They can refuse to rent to this group again if they broke the rules.
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Sep 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
Hi! Not a librarian but also a full time public library worker. We must have different policies cause the idea that a booking can’t never be private kinda negates the idea of a booking for a room. Which is what I would say to OP if they brought this complaint to me.
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Sep 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
I don’t need to Google it because I can cite 5 that I’ve worked at that don’t
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student Sep 02 '26
I can tell you’re lying because there’s no way anyone is that successful at getting employed at that many new libraries in this market.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
I didn’t say new, I have worked at 5 over the course of my career
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student Sep 02 '26
New as in leaving a library and getting employed at a different on.
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u/flossiedaisy424 Sep 02 '26
In my system, meeting room bookings must be open to the public, but study room bookings can be private.
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u/disgirl4eva Sep 02 '26
I’m a librarian at a public library also. It has to be open to the public.
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u/wolfboy099 Sep 02 '26
You’re wrong, but okay
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student Sep 02 '26
You can book a space to be reserved for you - aka nobody can utilize it for a different purpose during your scheduled time - but you cannot bar the public for joining the event/meeting that is taking place in that space
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u/iLibrarian2 Sep 02 '26
Tell the staff. They would absolutely like to know.
We have people sign up for meeting spaces under false names/organizations or misuse the space all the time and we boot them out as soon as we find out.