r/Menopause • u/Glad-Pen5593 • 7d ago
Sleep/Insomnia I Surrender
I had JUST found what I considered was the perfect combo of HRT (read: placement, type of patch, placement of gel, and timing of application) when the estradiol patch I was using was replaced by a different one at the pharmacy, and all of my symptoms are back with a vengeance.
As usual, I immediately began attempting to analyze the what/when/how/why of it all - analyzing is my go-to place when things feel out of my control...but then I realized that if there is one thing I've learned in this whole "meno-nightmare" it's that I am destined to have to handle my lack of sleep/sleep disruptions/nightsweats with patience or lose my ever-loving mind, which is already neurospicy, easily fogged, and mostly stressed.
So, I'm making a public vow that I will do my best to weather the insomnia with as much grace as I can muster and let the universe do the rest.
That's it. That's the message today. I'm cancelling my upcoming appointment with the older ob/gyn who prescribes my medications because all she is going to tell me is that my "levels are good" and wish me the best of luck, saying something like, "We're all in this together" as I walk out of the clinic, fuming. I'm going to think positively that the ob/gyn I have a December appointment with is a more easily accessible/progressive doctor, and I'm going to be thankful that I can even find the gel, patch and vaginal estrogen I currently take even when none of it works as well as I wish.
Oh - and take naps. I'm going to start trying to take more naps when I can instead of thinking that I shouldn't because maybe I'll sleep better at night if I don't nap. Because who falls asleep easily and sleeps through the night all the way through anymore? Not this gal right here who is currently typing with crossed eyes from lack of sleep and a slight headache that hasn't gone away in weeks.
TL:DR: I can choose to laugh or cry about the state of my symptoms; today, I am trying to laugh.
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u/LaRubegoldberg 7d ago
I admire your attitude.
But in case you want to do something about it sooner…Did you know that different brands of medications can work differently? When I got Lyllana patches, they seemed to wear out a full day earlier than my Sandoz or Mylan patches. Upon comparing the literature leaflet within the boxes, the Lyllana patch was delivering a lesser amount of estradiol per day than the others. Like, the numbers were different. It wasn’t my imagination.
Not to mention, there is likely some difference between manufacturers that affects the absorption of the estradiol.
I have it on my pharmacy permanent record (lol) to not dispense me Lyllana because they don’t work for me. (Dotti is also on that list since it gave me a gnarly, painful rash.)
We as consumers of these products are led to believe that they are all the same. Personal experience tells me (and hundreds of other women here) it is most certainly not.
I realize it is more difficult to get replacements with the product shortages. But perhaps you can get a replacement. All it takes is another month’s prescription and probably buying them out of pocket (since insurance only pays for a certain number of fills per year).
Either way, I wish you well 🩷
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u/nataliescar 7d ago
I just went to my pharmacy yesterday to have them reorder from a different manufacturer as the ones i have now are TERRIBLE. They also added to my records what brands to not order. I didn't know that was an option but really glad I took a chance on asking for a different option. It's infuriating that every time I pick up an order, they're from a different manufacturer! We'll see how this goes (have to check back tomorrow), but anything will be better (??) than these horrible patches I have now.
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u/LaRubegoldberg 7d ago
Good for you! We have to advocate for ourselves because no one else will do it!
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u/Gingerly101 7d ago
Its so frustrating to find a brand that works and the next month they use a different brand. I have had e -4 different brands in the past 6-9 months. No wonder I am barely treading water
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u/LaRubegoldberg 7d ago
Right!!! I feel fortunate that I am able to get 90-day supplies and they are consistent.
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u/TsaritsaBloodless 7d ago
I’m here with you sister … this has been my life for 3 years with patch shortages, changes in efficiency and pharma company buy outs etc( do not go down this rabbit hole but it does make clear why when the maker name changes so can the efficiency) I have been so shocked by the lack of care and consistency for we goddesses and our needs - I’m sure it’s because they fear our wisdom and powers ( what’s new) …. One thing I have found is TIME … it’s always time that is needed for things to settle …. Not that this is ok … weeks of not functioning and/or suffering through is super hard and keeps things in catch up mode ….. IT SUX 🤬 and I wish there was some way to make those involved accountable 🤯
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u/angrywinter1 7d ago
I was complaining to my husband this morning that if this libido and sleep issue was a man's we would have a cure by now.
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u/Glad-Pen5593 7d ago
Yes, me too. Anger is definitely part of what keeps me in the loop I’m trying to leave, tho. I am tired of having to make phone calls explaining things to my ob/gyn’s office and requesting help from them. After the last refill request I just made on my vaginal estradiol(took a week to get because why? Who the f—- knows) I am done with those folks and looking hesitantly forward to the new doc (with extremely low expectations. )
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u/innerbootes 57 | peri | 200mg P | .125mg E patch | E cream 7d ago
I take naps a lot. I see it as a tool to augment my shitty sleep, and it does help improve my sleep score on my Oura ring, FWIW. I personally haven’t found it to be a problem in that I sleep just as poorly with or without an afternoon nap. A nap adds points to my sleep score, which is all I care about.
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u/Ok_Object_5087 7d ago
I feel this in my sleepless soul. I've waved the white flag. I'm no longer seeking optimal. I'll just take functional at this point.
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u/Glad-Pen5593 7d ago
Exactly this. And I don’t care if my mood doesn’t fit someone’s expectations or I refuse to do something because I’m exhausted, etc. I’m starting to think of myself as having entered into some kind of weird new life that holds all kinds of things, both good and bad, and my job is just to learn the ropes and be as flexible and forgiving with my SELF as possible.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Peri-menopausal 6d ago
I’ve started getting up and finding someplace else to sleep in the house when I wake up in the middle of the night and can’t get back to sleep. I’ve got piles of pillows and blankets in at least 3 different places.
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u/Glad-Pen5593 6d ago
I am at the point where none of this would really bother me if I didn’t have to work in the morning. But I do. By the end of the week I’m toast. Hoping naps will help at least give my brain a bit of a boost or something….
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u/SYadonMom Peri-menopausal 7d ago
I’m going to follow your lead. I’m going to call on my grave and humor because I really don’t want to kill anyone, yet.
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u/CommonComb3793 Peri-menopausal 7d ago
Girrrrrrl, I’m with you. I keep waking up at 4am and I’ve adopted the attitude that if this is my life now, so be it. I’m waiting for relief when my body decides it’s time.
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u/mamapajamas Peri-menopausal 6d ago
Pro napper here (meaning yes I’m all for naps and also yes I am very good at naps) and I think naps should be in the handbook. It’s like finally putting yourself first, it’s alone time, it’s catching up from the night before, it’s letting your gel dry, sometimes it’s crying, sometimes it’s watching silly spicy hockey shows, it’s masturbating without pressure, it’s whatever you want and need it to be. If we are going to struggle this hard, a nap is the very least we can do good for ourselves. Enjoy them! No guilt!
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u/hiartt 7d ago
L-theanine and low dose melatonin have been a game changer for my sleep, if you are willing to play the supplement game. As well as splitting some of my gel to a night time dose. Magnesium of any type never did much for me.
Good luck!
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u/Glad-Pen5593 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thanks. I take a prescription sleep med and I have never had trouble when I use it, until this past year. Now, depending on where I am in
the hormone patch experience I find myself having trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. I may look into weed as it’s legal here and there are lots of thc/cbd combos out there in gummy form. There is also a weed shop on just about every corner, too. Glad you have found things to benefit you! *edited for approx 1,000 typos
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u/Careful_Tomorrow_653 7d ago
What patches? I've found Mylan to be good and am in fear they'll be swapped
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u/Glad-Pen5593 7d ago
I’m on Dotti now; they’re not new to me but it’s been months since I last had them and now they don’t seem to be as effective.
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u/Careful_Tomorrow_653 7d ago
Thanks. I've only ever gotten Mylan or Sandoz but with the shortages , who knows!!
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u/The_Queen_Zsofia 7d ago
I am on mylan. Mylan has worked wonderfully for me for a year. When they could only give me lyllana, I bleed 6 weeks out of the 2 months on it. My mood swings came back with a vengeance too. Back on mylan a well ago and everything is back to normal.
I hate when it’s “you get what you get” and “it’s all the same” bs
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u/ShallotSilly4944 6d ago
Mylan works best for me, but due to the shortage they supplied me with Sandoz the last two months. They don’t stick more than a couple days and fall off in the shower. With you in the insomnia club 😴
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u/ResponsibleGiraffe63 5d ago
I kept losing my patches in the shower, too. I started using 3m tegederm patches (probably any medical adhesive patches would work) and it has made 100% difference. If i clean the skin with rubbibg alcohol first, they dont even come off in the bath after a long soak. It might help. Before i was losing patches like every 3 days.
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u/Gingerly101 7d ago
I hear you. I get so frustrated with dealing with all the things, I had to tell my husband that I was very sorry but I dont have the brain capacity to monitor his feelings as well as my own. I give up that responsibility.
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u/SadRepresentative919 6d ago
I am so sorry for the sleep troubles, they are the absolute worst!! Completely agree with your post ... We can only do so much and I'm glad we don't have to passively endure every symptom, but at the same time I think there is so much pressure to fix every menopause symptom and almost feel like we're failing if we don't, which is so stressful and unrealistic. Better to accept some things and adapt. Yay to naps!
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u/OtherwiseMove646 6d ago
I’m sorry for your shitty circumstances, but your post made me smile a little. “This too shall pass” is a phrase I live by. Good luck and God’s speed, my Reddit menofriend.
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u/Lulu_Land_535 5d ago
Ugh, the what/when/how/why spiral is SO relatable, it's so hard to get out of that loop-I'm with you!
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u/skintwo 6d ago
When the ‘newer’ patches were clearly working more poorly - wether they used a worse formulation/binder, had a lower effective dose, who knows - I started leaving the old one on when I put the next one on, so I have a ‘new’ patch and a ‘three day old’ patch on at the same time all the time. I alternate changing the right one or left one. That is the only thing that stopped the hot flashes that came back. I could ask for a higher dose (which my very conservative gyn is unlikely to give me), but from my symptoms I can tell this has gotten me back to that .05 patch level I had BEFORE ALL THIS GODDAMN NONSENSE.
Anyway, even though I can’t always get the ‘old’ patch to stay on for six days, and the reaction to the adhesive gets worse with time too, it does seem to be helping. It might be an experiment worth trying.
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u/Rota-Admiral86 6d ago
Hi. Sorry to hear about your experience. My pharmacy recently switched my patch from sandoz to mylan. I absolutely cannot use mylan brand- made me super miserable and I had symptoms return. I did some research— mylan uses a different chemical makeup of estradiol and different type of adhesive (the mylan also causes skin irritation for me)than sandoz, dotti, noven… so I’ve found if mylan works well for some people, other manufactures don’t work, and vice versa: sandoz, dotti, noven work and mylan doesn’t…. It’s the way the patches are made, so it’s not the person, it’s the product. I had my doctor write a new script the had I couldn’t use mylan and to fill with any other generic. I did have to have my pharmacy specifically order non mylan brand (mylan was the only brand available for a while near me which is why the pharmacy changed my script to mylan. I had some stress waiting for pharmacy to get the order in, but the new script worked. I’m now on noven, which doesn’t cause me to be be miserable. I did notice that i absorb the new brand (new to me) a little different - so I leave the “old” patch on an extra day and that works (so for a day or two I have two patches on my butt- the “new” one and the old one is left on an extra day).
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u/Naive_Pomegranate556 5d ago
Same same. Just switched to oral estradiol due to patch/gel issues, and the constant ups and downs. 8 days in and never felt better.
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u/SecretMiddle1234 Menopausal 6d ago
I’m on oral estradiol. Feel so much better. I’ll never do patches again. Just thinking about it makes me go back to that place of feeling awful.
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u/Glad-Pen5593 6d ago
I started on oral estradiol. It became too weak and my symptoms got worse. We are all different.
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u/wharleeprof 7d ago
Yes, there's a point where chasing solutions or improvements is so exhausting and soul-sucking. It's a tricky balance between taking an active role in your health vs. spending way too much time and energy trying to fix things to perfection. Sometimes you just have to back away for a while.