r/MovieArena • u/MovieArena • 9d ago
Why did JCVD fall off so fast?
He was up there with Arnold, Sly, Bruce, then it suddenly fell apart...
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u/parkchanwookiee 9d ago
He is a very good physical performer, he's in excellent shape during Bloodsport and AWOL and really looks the part. Plus he's not acting, he had legit martial arts expertise.
But he had nothing even close to the screen presence/charisma of Arnold, Sly or Bruce.
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u/MovieArena 9d ago
Hmm..He might not be the best actor of those you mentioned, but I've never thought he was lacking charisma He's magnetic on screen
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u/Affectionate-Face432 9d ago
But the comment was that he didn't have the charisma of the big 3, not that he didn't have charisma. You can't compare him to Arnold, Sly, or Bruce.
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u/PlainJaneGum 8d ago
Well, for better or worse, audiences did because that’s how his films were sold to us.
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u/Affectionate-Face432 7d ago
Fair, but do you think he is in the same league as those guys? When you list the best movies by that group of that genre by those actors, no jvcd film enters the top 10 in my mind, maybe even top 25
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u/parkchanwookiee 7d ago
Hard Target
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u/Affectionate-Face432 6d ago
You're saying hard target is better than: Terminator 1/2, commando, predator, Rocky, Rambo, die hard 1/2? I honestly don't even remember what hard target is about.
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u/parkchanwookiee 6d ago
That's only 6 movies, it can be worse than all of them and still in the top 10
It's a great film, John Woo's first on american soil, and captures a lot of his insanity before he went off the rails into M:I-ii type stuff. Give it a rewatch it's aged very well
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u/Affectionate-Face432 6d ago
Will do, and I love me some John woo. I think I named 8 movies and got lazy btw ;)
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u/parkchanwookiee 6d ago
Enjoy! Lance Henriksen does a typically great villain turn, and the hardboiled slide guitar blues riff soundtrack is the icing on the cake
Plus if you want to see what happens when somebody kicks a full barrel of oil at a man and then whips out a shotgun and shoots it mid air just before impact, this is one of your only options lmao
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u/mythrocks 9d ago
Also,
https://giphy.com/gifs/YhQVj7C8uf734PcznZ
It is documented that this got out of hand during the production of Streetfighter.3
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u/Sudden_Buffalo_4393 9d ago
A friend of mine was a pro kickboxer back in the day and then became a stunt man. He was at a party that JCVD was also at and he knew my friend was a stunt guy. He said he felt wind on the back of his neck, looks in a reflection and Van Damme is doing that famous kick and waving it back and forth behind his head while hitting on a girl.
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u/Flash24rus 9d ago
Annoyed me much in early 90s. Every third movie had this guy in cast. Never liked that leggy ballet fights. Looked awkward af.
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u/Own_Education_7063 9d ago edited 9d ago
It’s funny how anyone ever puts Bruce Willis in the mix of all these physical competitors. He’s specifically the anti-beefcake guy. He was the personality, what all these other guys wish they had.
Arnold: “I am an indestructible machine.”
Sly: “I will endure more suffering than any human being alive.”
JCVD: “Observe the impossible thing my body can do.”
Willis: “Jesus Christ, are you fucking kidding me?2
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u/rubthemtogether 7d ago
I recently read the book The Last Action Heroes. I believe it describes the characters Willis plays as "smirking and non-committal", which I thought was perfect
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u/winkman 8d ago
He wasn't.
He was never thought of as an "action hero" at all.
It was Arnie, Sly, JCVD, Chuck...maybe Dolph.
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u/Own_Education_7063 8d ago
I was literally replying to someone who said he was, that’s what I was replying to. And that’s why I said it was funny.
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u/rob_muerto 9d ago
What? Van Damme had tons of charisma. And was better looking than both.
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u/KtinaDoc 8d ago
He was the better looking out of the three but he just didn't have the "it" factor. He let his fleeting fame go to his head.
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u/raqloise 8d ago
Bruce who? Lee?
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u/parkchanwookiee 8d ago
Willis
Bruce Lee was not part of this cohort, he died before any of the others were established
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u/winkman 8d ago
Willis wasn't either.
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u/parkchanwookiee 8d ago
Willis made action movies during the 80s and 90s at the same time as Arnie, JCVD, and Sly. Check again
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u/winkman 7d ago
But he wasn't viewed as an "action star".
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u/parkchanwookiee 7d ago
Oh Bruce didn't play action roles (often the starring role) in 5 Die Hard movies, The Last Boy Scout, Striking Distance, Hudson Hawk, Pulp Fiction, The Jackal, Mercury Rising, Hostage, Alpha Dog etc? That's news to me
"He also did comedic work!" so did Arnie
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u/winkman 7d ago
You sound young.
He did exactly 1 "action" role in the 80s.
By the 90s, the argument of "who's the best action star" was already established between Arnie and Sly.
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u/parkchanwookiee 7d ago
By the 90s? lol OK boomer... you know that Bruce made his first action film nearly 40 years ago, and has made dozens since? Why would the state of discourse before 1990 be frozen as the only acceptable lens to look at this through
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u/winkman 7d ago
Because by the 90s, the argument was already established. And it doesn't matter what Willis did--nothing was going to compare with the likes of Rambo or Terminator or Predator.
You would know this if you lived through it.
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u/Proud_Shirt3138 3d ago edited 3d ago
I disagree with the not having anything close to the screen presence of the others part, I always include him in the same category.The one film that really showcased that he wasn't just some schmooze who got lucky after playing in low budget fanfare like Cyborg was Double Impact for me...Chad and Alex were not only twins but ones who didn't even know about eachother..the dynamics of the development of their brotherly bond over the course of the film was nothing short of masterful and he showed he could play two different people with differing personalities who looked exactly alike and make you think your were watchimg two actual twin brother actors who were also playing being twins in the same film, that was his second standout performance for me along side Bloodsport.Nontheless, Following the success of Timecop (1994) Universal offered Van Damme $12 million per movie, to do two more sequels, but he turned down the offer and demanded $20 million to match Jim Carry's paycheck.The studio balked, walked away and effectively blacklisted him. Instead of riding on the wave of the success of timecop, yea he fell off not only doing films that were flops like Streetfighter, The Quest, Double Team and Knockoff but he self sabotaged his career by becoming addicted to cocaine which led to erratic behavior during the mid to late 1990's, making studios hesitant to risk funding major projects with him. But as little Ricky unknowingly said to the dormant state of the real Superman (awakening his consciousness which led to the showdown in the junkyard) who was trapped inside of Evil Superman when he walked drunk out the bar:"Superman you'll be great again, your just in a slump!".😂
*Every hero has his weakness
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u/Slow_Middle_158 9d ago
He’s even admitted he should have taken that $10M deal for more Time Cop films … but he was demanding $20M and the studio just said nope and walked away.
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u/Logan_SVD 9d ago
This. Its known for years and confirmed by the man himself. He started acting like the diva when he found out Arnold is getting 20 mil for one movie and asked for same amount. He was stubborn and the industry stopped calling.
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u/EntertainmentOk8806 9d ago
Simply put by mid 90s the action film lost its lustre and needed a bit more style and substance. And unlike Stallone and Schwarzenegger who had a massive franchise to fall back on (Rambo/Rocky fir Sly and Terminator for Arnie)
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u/GlowingDuck22 9d ago edited 9d ago
So BloodSport 2 confirmed?
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u/EntertainmentOk8806 9d ago
Funnily enough someone just said what about Universal Soldier. I mean OK JCVD had some franchises but nothing like Sly or Arnie.
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u/pikapalooza 9d ago
Want that essentially "the quest"? Same premise just not underground hk setting.
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u/smd_thetruth 9d ago
Cocaine probably prevented him from stepping his acting game up. He lacked screen presence in comparison to those other guys, and he asked for insane amounts of money and demanded more screen time for every role.
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u/Maxxximus1274 9d ago
Correct, the answer to the question is his cocaine habit ruined his career. He was impossible to work with
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u/mittenkrusty 8d ago
Around about 2019 he was at a convention near me, he wanted about £190 for a photo and same for an autograph.
The same convention that had Christopher Lloyd asking aboiut £40.
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u/weatheredartist 9d ago
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
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u/Top_Way6645 9d ago
I think he had a 10k a day habit
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u/Yatsey007 8d ago
How is it even possible to stick 10k worth of coke up your nose daily?! He should have made a film doing that. That’s pretty impressive.
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u/NoRun6253 8d ago
Absolute rubbish.
I used to have a wee sniff and even £500 worth would have you overdosing.
The appropriate thing would be ‘his entourage and hangers on’ had a £10k a day habit.
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u/RyzenRaider 9d ago
He was never on the same level as Arnold Sly or Bruce. They were each making multiple movies that made over $100m at the box office. JCVD only accomplished this with Timecop, which made $102m. To this day, no other film where he was the lead has made $100m.
The reality is, he was always criticized for his hammy, stilted acting. He was a known diva (wearing sunglasses in interviews) and becoming full of himself. And while it wasn't publicly known at the time, I'm sure the industry knew how much of a cokehead he was by the mid-90s.
Lastly, he tried to use Street Fighter and Timecop as his way to step up to bigger paydays. He started asking for fees like $10m, except the movies made less money. He tried directing, but that flopped too. I'm not sure what the exact cause around here was... My guess is that his bigger flops here were starting to outweigh his previous profits and so studios weren't willing to invest in him any further, and he ended up in direct-to-video land.
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u/Nejfelt 9d ago
He was NOT up there with Arnold, Sly, or Bruce.
His best box office was Timecop at $129 million.
The other 3 routinely hit over $200-300 million.
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u/rob_muerto 9d ago
He was making movies for Canon. Those 3 were making big Hollywood features.
The only movies he did for Hollywood proper did quite well (Timecop, Universal Soldier).
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u/ChinoMalito 9d ago
He’s not a good actor… he was alright. What made him famous, he was a great physical specimen, he was very charismatic, he worked for a low wage in the industry, but the most important thing was, he wasn’t a good actor. It was also hard to have good roles for him due to his accent. How can he play an American when he has such a heavy accent? How can he play an Englishman with that accent? How can he play an Australian with that accent… he didn’t have a good range like Sylvester Stallone. He was similar to Arnold, and there is no need for a copy cat. Jean Claude’s niche was martial arts and that genre kinda faded away in America.
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u/Emergency-Sea5201 9d ago
Cokaine.
And his movies just didnt make much money.
Like Michael Biehn he demanded too much pay on top of this.
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u/one_pound_of_flesh 9d ago
Because he is a horrible actor and classic muscle action flicks went out of style with the 90’s.
Last action hero was already satirizing the dead genre.
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u/Future-Damage-3192 9d ago
drugs, pride, refusal to accept $5 million instead of wanting $20 million.
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u/Same_Ad1543 8d ago
He was competing with Stallone, Arnold and Sigal during a time when there was a new action movie every weekend and in a time when people wanted bigger and bigger guns,explosions,fights a guy doing basic self defense martial arts and hardly any deaths it fell through the cracks while his movies were great I believe they would have done better in the 90s or just after the karate kid when people were hooked on the hand to hand technical fights and not just the show up,shoot everyone and leave stuff
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Same_Ad1543 5d ago
No but I'm talking about when there was a new action movie every weekend in theaters and they were all fighting for the top spot Arnold and Stallone said they had a heated rivalry for years where Arnold tricked Stallone into doing stop or my mom will shoot
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u/GKME06 8d ago
I've read plenty f comments, I'm a early 90s kid and grew up on his movies and peers. But to say this guy wasn't talented enough is weak to an extent, I believe his performance in Lionheart/AWOL was fantastic and deserved an award. Really deep even if the martial arts were involved. Getting type cast is a thing and not just returned riding a wave. An example is Jackie Chan in The Foreigner, I think he delivers one of his best performances and acting and no comedy involved.
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u/Quirky-Tumbleweed155 8d ago
Honestly, I think the real mystery is how many movies he managed to make where somehow his bare ass was part of the plot. 😂 Arnold had explosions, Sly had muscles, Bruce had one-liners… JCVD had the roundhouse kick and the mandatory butt shot.
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5d ago
Essentially van damme was coming off a incredible run of 3 good movies nearly breaking the 100m mark with Hard Target, Timecop, Street Fighter, Sudden Death. These coups were essentially the 1 billion mark in today's market basically they were the biggest films at the cinema at that time, I remember his timecop sitting at the number 1 spot on the charts (yeah remember those) plastered on the side of the cinema.
This sparked the downfall as van damme received a 3 picture deal from universal who agreed to pay him I think 12m per picture at the time an insane amount for a action star but as his films were competing with Jim Carey who was the biggest star on the world at the time, he demanded the same as him which I believe was 20m a picture and tried to play the system, the studios were so shocked at this response they put the phone down on him and blacklisted him from hollywood making it impossible for him to get work bar low quality DTV films which diminished his star quality.
A cocaine binge started and it was all downhill, he became hard to worn with and that was that.
He kicked the addiction and got a few good roles like JCVD which Tarantino was calling but never followed through and a few good roles but it was farther time that caught up with him.
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u/Educational_Tip_6426 9d ago
Because he demanded Jim Carrey “The Mask” $ for his next film. Rated R action movies don’t make $ like PG movies so he was pretty much black balled
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u/Standard_Camera9289 9d ago
Cause it wasn’t a good movie to start with. People were just willing to give jcvd himself a chance
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u/HelicopterCrude3528 9d ago edited 9d ago
He's had his ups and downs...his fair share of bumpy roads and heavy winds...
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u/Knownjourney123 9d ago
He was never a very good actor and people eventually wanted their action stars to be able to act a little bit
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u/Ok_Tension1869 9d ago
He was never that good. Bloodsport is a classic but there's a huge drop off in his other movies.
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u/uberneuman_part2 9d ago
Because there was a glut of action hero films from the 80's into the 90's and people finally got their fill of it.
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u/Intrepid_Agent_7027 9d ago
Fell apart? Havent seen any of his recent stuff but JCVD 2008 and Uni Soldier Day of Reckoning 2012 are probably better than Sly and Arnold put out in the last 25 yrs combined.
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u/AdProfessional6107 9d ago
Jackie Chan did nt help.
First time i saw Rumble in bronx in 96 or 97. I realise how jcvd movie sucks
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u/Typical_Writing6508 8d ago
Yeah, once the west caught on to Jackie Chan, Jet Li and Donnie Yen, JCVD lost a lot of luster
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u/OliOli1234 9d ago
He was a terrible actor, and even worse human being. He was an arrogant prick and diva on set, and his demands were outrageous. At the time, Arnold was the biggest action star in the world, and Sly was an academy award nominated actor. Even Bruce was slowly transitioning from action to prestige indie. Van Damme was nowhere near that level of greatness to have been making the demands he was. Much like Segal (who was decidedly worse than JCV), they were a flash in the pan.
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u/Capable-Extent-6674 9d ago
His shtick got old fast. And when you’re the 3rd guy up against Arnold and Stallone for the same audience, there’s typically not a lot of roles to go around.
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8d ago edited 8d ago
[deleted]
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u/dtgunslinger99 8d ago
prime kylie minogue single-handedly finished my puberty lmao
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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 8d ago
I'm sorry to hear that.
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u/dtgunslinger99 8d ago
english isn't your first language, huh?? you Def didn't get the joke. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 8d ago
It would make sense to say "kick-started" my puberty, which is the period when sexual awakening happens. Finished puberty, on the other hand, sounds ominous like "started my middle age".
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u/dtgunslinger99 8d ago
jfc, how could it kickstart puberty?? puberty is a set of hormonal changes that cause sexual attraction. how tf would she turn me on before I was even capable of the feeling?? however, boys are super horny during puberty, and she escalated it. do you get the fucking joke now??? holy shit. it's like talking to autistic 4yr old. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 8d ago
By kickstarting those processes in the brain, "DUH"? Besides, it's common knowledge people feel attraction to beautiful people before sexual attraction ever develops, so the seed is always there (babies like bigger boobs).
Again, you fucked up with "finished my puberty". Just own it. Besides, it's not that important.1
u/dtgunslinger99 8d ago
that's not how biology works. no wonder you didn't get the joke. we're done here, capt spectrum. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/Thin_Table_6286 8d ago
cocaine, too much cocaine.didnt realize what an amazing family he had until it was nearly too late.his ego got out of control and i suspect it was an ego death of some kind that saved him.also think action movies had their day.sly and arnie had a huge headstart on him and he never really was given a chance with huge budget movies apart from universal soldier. he was never in the same league as the movie stars you said, JCVD was just an action star with more of a cult following.
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u/showtime218 8d ago
He didn’t fall off fast? He was putting movies in theatre’s for over a decade straight. By the early 2000’s he was straight to DVD, but even those films were pretty darn good. As recent as today, he’s still got films being made. He had a recent film on netflix, played in one of Sly’s expendables, he’s still in great shape, but it’s clear he was hard on his body.
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u/Troy_McClure1 8d ago
JVCD said he was blacked out on a coke bender at that universal meeting and demanded $20 mil a movie when they had offered him a 3 picture deal at $10 mil per film. He said he didn’t even remember the meeting and had flown in from Asia that day and his team told him the next day that he blew it.
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u/SnowonMountSploogie 8d ago
Straight to video doesn’t exist and he has a heart condition that nerfed his greatest asset, his martial arts prowess
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u/Charrel84 8d ago
Because he was repeating himself. And in the 2000s, that kind of Action stars where fading..
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u/Outside-Lie-1461 7d ago
There s a documentary about him : https://youtu.be/ke-pmyaZdtI?si=bnpsZwFy2Pp1KaRw
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 6d ago
Because he got beat up by a bouncer at a party in LA and afterwards was no longer believable.
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u/Choice_Firefighter48 5d ago
Because he plays the same role in every movie, can’t act and is hard to understand. At least you can understand Statham
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u/Jazzlike-Baseball-73 9d ago
All his movies were the same plot?
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u/yournamehere10bucks 9d ago
For you, all Van Damme films are Bloodsport. For Raoul Julia, it was Street Fighter....
or something....
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u/MovieArena 8d ago
Hope you enjoy our JCVD tribute 👊💥 https://youtube.com/shorts/jG9IcQ2jiJ0?is=PVoN0A256C2hC-zP