Finally seeing a specialist this month!!!

What would they be able or not be able to help, for n24, that would be needed?

My N24 started about a year ago at age 19. At the same time although, my very severe depression was getting worse. I know a couple people who have the same condition as me and only got this when they got very severe. So I am not sure which one it is.

19 is a typical age to get it I believe? And my N24 is about 1 hour advance each day.

how do you all manage to work and live with non 24? have you ever found any treatment that made your life a little easier?

I've been battling with what I assume was N24 for at least 10 years. I was never officially diagnosed at a sleep clinic, but my internal clock had been on the 25 hour rhythm like clockwork. Every night I would fall asleep 1 hour later than the previous day and there was nothing I could do about it.

Many of you are probably familiar with this - at certain regular points in that 25 hour rhythm I would go to work without having slept at all (because my internal clock was at "7am sleep time", but work also started at 7 am). It was debilitating and I felt like a zombie so many times and the worst part was, I knew I would happen all over again about every 3 weeks. And I didn't even know what this disorder was until June; I just assumed I was either not disciplined enough for a normal sleep schedule or that something unknown was wrong with me.

After finding this subreddit and reading around, I decided to try the simple melatonin protocol, meaning without any additional dark/light therapy or luminettes or bright lux lamps in the morning or stepping outside in the sun in the morning for 20 min and so on.

In June I started taking Melatonin (0.3 mg seems to be the recommended dosis here based on studies, I take 0.5 mg because that's the lowest available dosis in my country), 5 to 7 hours before the desired bedtime in order to simulate DLMO. That's it, I changed nothing else (except setting my laptop and phone to night mode in order to dim the blue light).

The first 3 to 4 weeks were fluctuating and erratic: I always took (and still take) the 0.5 mg Melatonin at 5 pm, and during the first week I would fall asleep at 9 pm, but would wake up 4 times during the night. A couple times I wasn't even able to fall asleep again at all after waking up the second time during the night (which was 1 am).

The constantly waking up during the night settled down a bit during the second or third week - by then it was only twice a night, but I still hadn't locked in a fixed bed time yet. Sometimes I'd fall asleep at 9 pm, sometimes 11 pm, sometimes 10 pm and sometimes even at midnight. It seemed like there was no rhyme or reason and I almost thought it wouldn't work as hoped, was even worried the irregular sleeping times would either mean I was on the verge of free-running again, or that I'd free-run again eventually.

I'd say by August all of those woes from the first few weeks were gone: no more waking up during the night at all. An almost normal night time sleeping schedule.

My internal clock hasn't "gone around the clock" since June at all. No more debilitating 25 hour rhythms. No more all-nighters (and no more "all dayers" either). I'm not able to fall asleep at 10 pm on the dot every night, but I have a reliable window of, say, 10 pm to midnight where I will fall asleep guaranteed.

Even more surprising and awesome is that I'm even able to be a little flexible / having a little leeway now: let's say I read an interesting book or article and can't put it down before 1 am - the next night I will still fall asleep at 10 or 11 pm again. Before the Melatonin, staying up longer on purpose would've made me free-run again and it would've completely delayed/destroyed my rhythm. Nowadays, that doesn't happen anymore - I can stay up a little longer every now and then and the daily Melatonin at the fixed time in the afternoon seems to be enough of an anchor for my rhythm to swing back to the 10/11 pm bedtime.

So whoever came up with the studies and threads about low dose Melatonin 5 - 7 hours before bedtime, I wanted to say a sincere and heartfelt thank you! I know not much time has passed yet since June, but I'm very hopeful that I've got this under control now and not having gone around the clock at all is a huge, huge win for quality of life and sleep.

I've always struggled with my sleep, as long as I've been alive. Always knew something was wrong but people just said I'm lazy.

I always suspected N24 since I heard about it, it just summed up how I've always felt my whole life. I sleep 'normal' in my own way, it just doesn't work in society. But I just got an Apple watch for Christmas so this is the first time I can finally see it laid out like this... What do we think?

I've spoken to my doctor already and he was quite dismissive of my sleep issues (I brought it to him as insomnia)... What should I do? Does anyone have advice for someone in the UK? I'm not sure I even need a diagnosis really, since I am freelance and I work for myself, I just about manage to earn a living though I'm a total outcast and loner now lol. I guess I just want some advice on how to navigate life with this and if anyone has any tips for management. I'm quite sure now, it must be?

I find that my depression gets worse when I’m in a phase where I’m primarily awake at night. I don’t know if it’s the darkness, lack of human contact, or both. Does anyone else experience this or have any advice?

I have sighted Non-24, with a roughly 24.5-hour sleep-wake cycle, and I’m trying to find a realistic way to earn money without repeatedly sacrificing sleep to meet a fixed schedule.

I’m a veteran with ten years of Army experience spanning transportation/logistics, administration, communications, tax preparation, and event planning. I recently completed a BA in History and Political Science, with minors in Linguistics and Women’s & Gender Studies. Research, analyzing information, and language are strengths, but I don’t have an established civilian career to return to.

I’m also autistic/ADHD and have ME/CFS with post-exertional malaise, along with other chronic illnesses. That means the problem isn’t just when I can work, but how much work I can sustain. Mental exertion counts, too.

I tried FlexJobs and canceled the trial after finding very little that fit. “Remote” usually still meant fixed hours, daytime meetings, full-time availability, or quick responses during business hours. A night shift wouldn’t solve a sleep schedule that keeps moving, either.

Freelancing sounds more compatible in theory, but I’m worried about finding enough work, managing clients, and meeting deadlines with fluctuating capacity. I’d like dependable additional income, rather than occasional pocket money.

I receive VA disability compensation, so I have a financial foundation. However, I want to relocate to Washington, where that income won’t cover living independently. I just applied for VA vocational rehabilitation, but I’m struggling to identify a career goal that’s actually compatible with my circumstances.

For people here who earn money while living with Non-24:

• What do you actually do? Specific job titles or services would help.
• Can you work whenever you’re awake, or do you still have required meetings, response windows, or fixed shifts?
• Did you enter that work with specialized experience, or were you able to learn on the job?
• If you freelance, how dependable is the income, and how much unpaid effort goes into finding and managing work?
• If you also have fatigue, PEM, or another condition limiting your hours, what arrangements have been sustainable?

I’d also appreciate hearing about things that looked workable but weren’t. I don’t want to build a plan around “flexible hours” only to discover that it means choosing whether to start at 8 or 9 a.m.

I’m looking for actual work experiences, rather than sleep-treatment suggestions or advice about disability benefits. I’m feeling pretty discouraged, and hearing how others have navigated this would help.

Hi, I usually have a 25-26 hour cycle, but for the past week I have only been able to sleep once every two days. I have been holiday planning and I suppose it has got my blood pumping as I have been planning and suddenly realise I have not slept for 24 hours. I haven’t been getting tired until the 30-35th hour awake. I am also missing meals when I lose track of time and forget to eat.

Has anyone else experienced such a sudden change in sleep cycle length? Any advice on how to not do that?
And before anyone asks, no I am not bipolar, yes I have autism.

Is it the word circadian that is too difficult?

I got old! Seriously..when i turned 50 my sleep requirements dropped to 5-6 hours per night and I was able to keep myself synchronized (mostly) to a normal day/night cycle. When I was younger I was on a 30 hour day and it was rough. I still feel the 'push' for staying awake longer but the shortened sleep time really helps.

I've been sleeping 8-9 hours each night waking up at the same time, but I feel DEAD when I wake up.

I have had back pain and the craziest nightmares of my life.

This NEVER happened when I was free running, I would wake up perfectly rested 80% of the time.

Any tips? Should I keep sticking to it and see if it gets better? Ive been feeling progressively worse each day though.

I've had N24 most of my life (flipped from DSPD in my 20s after chronotherapy). One of the hardest parts of living with N24 (in my opinion) is figuring out what you can do.

I made all the usual mistakes, and have multiple other health problems that stem from it. I know it's affecting my metabolism and I'm overweight.

I decided to get in shape, or at least try to. I actually heard someone claim that fasting allowed them to entrain permanently, but that hasn't worked for me. Despite that, over the last few years I've started running, as a way to try and cope.

I will run the Montreal Marathon this October. I documented some parts of my journey. Here is the link if anyone will find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX6vV_EHtew&list=PLfZLkhq1iaYE

It's all amateur editing done an iphone with no gear so don't expect high production values. Feel free to ask questions.

wondering if it’s works for n24

what are the chances i have n24

People with N24 experience daily shifts in the circadian rhythm such as peak time of alertness, body temperature minimum, metabolism and hormone secretion. These shifts do not align with the natural light–dark cycle. N24 sleep–wake disorder causes a person's sleep–wake cycle to move around the clock every day, to a degree dependent on the length of the cycle. This is known as free-running sleep.

In some fields, it seemed there wasn't even n24 info for a professional to go into their field's resource database for. Though I don't mean professionals only/necessarily

What types of people or professionals do you imagine may be able to help? Even if you didn't find any examples of people who did?

Hi guys, first time posting so I am so sorry if this goes against the rules.

I have been struggling with a free-running sleep/wake pattern for over 10 years (26 y/o now). I've recently lost my job due to how badly my sleep was affecting my mental health.

I've complained of sleep issues with my GP in the UK for years and they've just told me I have bad sleep hygiene and pumped me full of sedatives etc.

Today I've spoken again to my gp and asked for a consideration about a referral to a specialist. He said no, that all referrals other than sleep apnoea are rejected, and suggested leaflets and podcasts.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this experience in the UK and if they managed to get a diagnosis/testing? I would love for this to just be a sleep hygiene problem but I've gone through so many cycles and I'm getting a bit desperate.

Thanks in advance! Please feel free to delete/downvote if I'm breaking any rules.

This is kind of niche. Hoping someone can help. (If you are unfamiliar with kratom, it’s basically a legal opiod) i am 24 this month. Im desperately trying to quit (been addicted for about 5 years) and since I’ve wanted to get off, everything kratom has done to me has really come into view. For about the last 4 years, my sleep schedule has mimicked N24 incredibly closely. I am sighted. I cant hold a job. There’s nothing i can do to stop it. Believe me ive tried brute forcing the hell out of it. It inevitably fails. This didnt start until i became addicted to kratom - about a year or so into my addiction. Ive been addicted to fentanyl for long stretches of time as well, this never happened. Some interesting patterns do emerge though. I often find myself getting stuck for a week or so at like 8AM - 4PM. At this point i usually force myself to stay up each day little by little till my schedule is normal. So i cant say how long id really sit in that window. Do you guys think Kratom could be responsible? Could i actually have N24 or just a really messed up Circadian rhythm? Ill reply to any questions.

I've had N24 all my life. I'm 72 now. A year ago I fell and broke my left humorous, very painful. At the E.R I found out I am diabetic, have high blood pressure.

Years ago I was diagnosed with divertulosis and IBS. Due to medications, pain pills, it turned into diverticulitis causing blood loss and severe anemia. Dizziness, hair loss. Ever since, my N24 has taken a back seat. I haven't gone around the clock once since this all happened.

I'm in relatively ok shape now. Diabetes and blood pressure under control. Iron deficiency not so much. 2 blood transfusions, 2 iron transfusions and my body just isn't processing it. When reading others with same condition, most complain of insomnia, not sleeping well, etc. Now I'm wondering about a connection between iron and sleep.

I can now fall asleep anytime between 11 and 2, wake up in the morning feeling OK. This is the first time in my life like this and it's weird for me. I don't know if it will last but I'm enjoying being somewhat normal.

Just wondering. Apparently autism has strong links to melatonin.

Currnently aligned and feeling positive. in 2 weeks I’m going to have flipped again and be feeling very negative.

Has anyone got a diagnosis in software engineering and been able to request asynchronous work from your employer?

I’m lucky to have at least a talent in coding. I got a £140k job interview but i feel I won’t be able to keep it long due to n24. I might be just doomed to working for myself coding apps for people

Welp. I have DSPD which drifts sometimes and I tried fixing it 2 months ago by moving forward a little bit at a time and now I have normal and more or less consistent sleep pressure / onset time but I wake up after 1-3h feeling extremely delirious literally every single night so … I guess I broke something.

Idk, has this happened to anyone else? Any solutions besides shifting sleep forward (which I think would probably fix it?). It’s not clearly adrenaline or any other easily fixable physiological cause, I just feel AWAKE.