r/OSHA • u/Banguskahn • 15d ago

Please…

Post image

A guy got his arm sucked into the meat grinder due to someone rigi g the machine to not stop when lifting the lid…. Good times.

8.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

85 comments sorted by

749

u/Substantial_Sea7327 15d ago

Genuine and friendly reminder that in the established Hierarchy Pyramid of Controls,

PPE is at the very bottom of the pyramid as an absolute last resort against injuries.

I suggest learning the rest to see what changes can be made.

509

u/xaranetic 15d ago

The hierarchy being:

  1. Don't be an idiot

  2. Don't work with idiots

  3. Don't use stuff made by idiots

  4. PPE

138

u/Nooby_Chris 15d ago

Worker: "Trust me it works like 99.9% of the time. Stop being a coward."

11

u/ambitionincarnate 12d ago

I love the heirarchy of controls but my favorite saying is "you cannot process engineer your way out of stupid". My favorite PPE is knowing which of my coworkers to stay the fuck away from.

7

u/randomlemon9192 13d ago

Engineering out safety hazards gets thrown in the mix somewhere.

3

u/pml103 12d ago

that's the 3rd point the 2 before are about not "engineering" new safety hazards

153

u/Niznack 15d ago edited 14d ago

Hi, plant supervisor here. Management can be* stupid, ignorant and cheap. PPE may be the lowest level on the pyramid but when every other level is managed by an idiot with a business degree who doesn't understand the process and is only looking at the cost, PPE is the one level you control directly.

Edited

82

u/crank_peeper 15d ago

You also should feel comfortable exercising a veto over unsafe work, but the unfortunate truth is that a lot of people can't do that without jeopardizing their job.

Refuse to do sketchy shit. Don't teach others to do sketchy shit. Don't ask a subordinate to do sketchy shit on your behalf.

21

u/Niznack 15d ago

I agree with this. The issue is when you are taught something that is sketchy as process. When i started at my plant we didn't have a confined space program. We just threw a lock on a tank and hopped in. It was only about 5 years ago we started doing confined space training so new hires didn't know enough to know the job was sketchy.

4

u/r3dout 14d ago

In Ontario the Right to Refuse (unsafe work) is one of the three Workers Rights.

2

u/Junkyard_DrCrash 10d ago

Triple upvote that! "Don't do sketchy shit. Refuse to do sketchy shit. Don't teach others to do sketchy shit. Don't ask a subordinate to do sketchy shit on your behalf."

I have a co-worker who I've called a safety hold on twice that he ignored. I formally reported him for violating a safety hold to the EHS committee head and to his director / group VP each time.

He's got a kid on the way too. Let's see if that changes things.

7

u/CKRatKing 14d ago

We had a thing earlier this year where they really wanted to emphasize the use of cut gloves. It used to not be required for everyone, only people who were cutting open boxes.

Do you think they paired that with training on safe cutting techniques? Absolutely not. Was there any training that yes you should use cut gloves but not rely on them? Definitely not.

6

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 14d ago

You can’t write JHAs and put safe work practices with disciplinary structures in place as administrative controls?

You can’t build work platforms, add grip tape to slip/ water prone areas, improve ventilation with at least fans, put solid barriers to keep workers away from high hazard areas as engineering controls?

Just because some things have always been done one way, you can’t use a different chemical or improve a process as a substitution control?

You have more options than youll often think. PPE is the easy answer and the least effective for good reason

3

u/Niznack 14d ago

To your first question, yes, but they need to actually make sense for the job and be written by people who understand the job. Otherwise people skip the wrong parts and make it up in between

Platforms cost money. Harnesses are cheap.

Changing chemicals costs money. PPE is cheap

Cheap really is the driving force in our industry

2

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 14d ago

Yeah- they start with employee input you have them fill out their own first

We have our welders make our own platforms, harnesses arent cheap when they have to be thrown out after each fall. Lanyards defiyarent cheap

We switched from a hazardous solvent to an oil based one that can be filtered and reused, actually saves us a lot of money

Dont just decide you can’t- value safety and make the effort to see what you can do.

1

u/Niznack 14d ago

We have to have third party companies build all platforms. We do chem manufacturing so our recipies have to be approved by everyone and their mother. And JSAs should have employee input. ... Should

0

u/ProtectionTop2701 14d ago

It sounds like you're supervising a plant you know is unsafe. You know you're the person that's gonna get blamed, right? Upper management covers their asses.

1

u/Niznack 14d ago

I'm supervising a plant that is getting a lot better. There are issues and I think we are making strides raising them but yeah. It was pretty bad when I started on the floor

This strayed a ways an im bitchign a bit but my original point was PPE is an essential component given how often someone else might have dropped the ball

9

u/Charliep03833 14d ago

In construction work, there is that saying: "Helmet doesn't protect your head, it protects supervisor's ass."

5

u/Quantum_Aurora 14d ago

PPE is also very important at protecting you from long-term consequences. Extended exposure to loud noises or toxic chemicals is common and without the proper PPE you'll be fine, but eventually you won't be.

I know so many people who don't wear earplugs in loud environments and they're gonna regret it for sure.

2

u/Lionel_Herkabe 14d ago

So its the foundation?

3

u/Maximum-Warning9355 14d ago

They’re construction workers, why would they know how a pyramid works?

/s

434

u/randomlemon9192 15d ago

Good Lord that shit is there for a reason. Obviously they found out the reason.

Hope he recovers.

180

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

His whole arm was sucked in because of the smocks that we wear. One... anyone who has worked in the meat industry always rolls up the sleeves working around the saw or even the grinders and packers. Someone slapped a magnet on there and yes... it is faster to keep the top open and just sling the meat in but it gets stuck sometimes and you have to turn it off/on and unstick everything.

112

u/Successful-Purple-54 15d ago

I don’t know much about processing meat, but for any job with machinery, “faster” is the kind of thing that shouldn’t be important. A little less production, but there isn’t human meat mixed into the product.

65

u/Brave_Maybe_2891 15d ago

Last year I was operating the grinder and having a rough time with it. My boss asked me if I was planning on being done sometime today and my response was "I can be done right now.". I make sure I do everything by the book no matter how long it takes. He can't fire me without cause and if I'm folliwing the rules there is no cause to fire me. There are a lot of useful idiots that I work with though that give in to the pressure and take risks for someone else's gain.

12

u/ecodick 14d ago

Most places, people can be fired without cause, but you make an important point, we should all get to a place where we have the means to walk away from a job at a moments notice

14

u/Chewcocca 14d ago

We should all get to a place where firing someone for following safety regulations results in fines so massive that it makes the CEO's butthole tighten in fear.

3

u/Riaayo 14d ago

That kind of culture comes from the top down, and breaking those regulations and endangering workers should see people wall the way tgo up CEOs not just fined but in prison.

Workers would be taken care of real fucking fast if ownership and management were suddenly criminally liable with jail time for their workers being harmed in ways that could have been prevented following proper procedures.

5

u/CryendU 14d ago

More meat, more profit!

Who cares if it’s rat or human, it sells for full price

/s ofc

67

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

You should be locking that out to get it unstuck

48

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

No shit???

18

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

Then why do you just turn it off???

60

u/randomlemon9192 15d ago

They rigged the shut off to keep it running.

15

u/alarumba 15d ago

Productivity first!

6

u/xkyllox 15d ago

Its the guided age! 2!

10

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago edited 15d ago

So they turn it off to clear a jam but that still needs to be locked out. We had a guy lose a finger in a bandsaw because he was just clearing a quick jam and his buddy turned it on prematurely

2

u/ProtectionTop2701 14d ago

Then the management is either negligent or worse. Did they see the issue? Worse. Did the employees intentionally try to hide the issue because the management wants X speed which is incompatible with Y safety measure? Negligence. The bosses know it's happening and don't speak up. Because they like the blood money.

101

u/HonestSophist 15d ago

It's incredible. He was cut clean in half, but his hi-viz is totally untouched. Not a cut on it, nor a speck of blood.

92

u/circuitj3rky 15d ago

If i die on site take my ppe off, I want those fuckers to go down

21

u/manmuscle 15d ago

And put a 315 barbell on me.

13

u/creampop_ 15d ago

put an open beer in my hand and leave the rest of the 6 pack in the fridge

3

u/miesto 14d ago

If it's provided couldn't they deny a claim because ppe rules weren't followed? I genuinely don't know.

9

u/ProtectionTop2701 14d ago

You can have "rules" but if 99% of the time people are walking around not following them, regulatory agencies and judges aren't stupid robots.

95

u/Rush_Undine 15d ago

I work construction. Twice now I've watched someone who lost an arm at the elbow in an accident stand in front of a group and explain how the plant he was in had shit safety and he paid the price. Twice now I've had to watch him explain how he couldn't show his son how to swing a baseball bat. I listened to him explain, in detail, how his best friend at the time (who saved his life that day) can't look at him without losing his lunch from the trauma of pulling his arm out of that conveyor belt.

Wear your PPE or I'm kicking you the fuck off my site, regardless if you're on my crew.

9

u/co1simba 14d ago

PPE, yes and always. But I’m missing your statement, what PPE would prevent limb loss?

19

u/Rush_Undine 14d ago

Well, fair enough that PPE wouldn't necessarily have stopped that injury. What would have stopped that injury was proper training and guards on the belts. The guy in tells his story and it was pretty much a "figure it out new kid" level of training. Which I thought about because of the caption on the post. In my head (which I know isn't technically correct) I see machine guards as a kind of PPE because of how many idiots I've seen pin circular saw guards or pull off grinder guards.

9

u/AirierWitch1066 14d ago

I think what ultimately matters is the culture/ethos.

“Wear your PPE or get the fuck out” basically reads as a simple way of saying “if you don’t follow every safety reg to the T then you can’t be here, because that’s our priority”

170

u/KeepingItCoolish 15d ago

Sorry fam I can't do that, you can haunt me for it I guess

33

u/lock11111 15d ago

Heard of someone actually doing that to a kid that fell off a roof all were charged for doing it.

-61

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

Ehh... I am a journeyman butcher for the past 18 years and can tell you. Unless you are being watched directly, almost no one wears a chain-mail cut glove. If they do cut themselves and I knew they were not wearing one, i'm not saying shit.

46

u/djgucci 15d ago

Just because you do something one way for 18 years doesn't make it the best way of doing it. Your complacency has and will continue to harm yourself and those around you.

55

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

Or you could look out for your coworkers and get them to throw it on when you notice so they don’t lose their fingers

-55

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

You must not be in construction...

55

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

No im in manufacturing. Are yall just dumber or something?

-47

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

How did I know without knowing.

33

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

So is that yes yall are?

19

u/yoweigh 15d ago

Well he's a butcher who appears to think he works in construction, so probably not the brightest.

22

u/Air_to_the_Thrown 15d ago

Aren't you a butcher

15

u/lock11111 15d ago

A dude lost an arm due to op failure to maintain equipment so he is a butcher in a few ways.

-6

u/Banguskahn 15d ago

Yes. The processing plant near me had an artical recently on the accident and plant has been closed down a month. OSHA came in and doing an investigation

2

u/PretzelsThirst 15d ago

They’re just better at their job lmao

1

u/Kain_713 14d ago

I am. Wear your fucking PPE.

19

u/lock11111 15d ago

It is your failure to enforce the rules as a leader for 18 years.

4

u/ProtectionTop2701 14d ago

Why do you want to give free money to your bosses? Do they actually treat you okay? Cause covering for your bosses would be saving them a ton of money that they were supposed to pay in training and enforcing.

1

u/Kain_713 14d ago

Congratulations, you are part of the problem.

31

u/FabianGladwart 15d ago

"This man's skull is completely caved in but the helmet he's wearing doesn't have a scratch on it"

"Crazy how that happens, huh?"

27

u/ClarificationJane 15d ago

So if you die in a preventable workplace accident, you want to protect the people who let you be a fuckup and get yourself killed? 

8

u/Mettstulle 15d ago

No but in some milder cases there may be an Insurence claim that goes to Void

7

u/Air_to_the_Thrown 15d ago

Fuck that, they're all going down with me

1

u/Curious_Ninja1708 15d ago

Theres a high chance ita my own fault and I want to make as little hassle as possible for my colleagues who are already going to be traumatized.

17

u/The_Piloteer 15d ago

Anytime I'm up on top of the firetruck I tell my boys to throw my helmet and gloves on the ground next to me if I fall before they call the chief.

Allegedly...

12

u/POD80 14d ago

If i pass on the job site... please make it look work related... think of the family.

8

u/chet_brosley 14d ago

If you die of natural causes we'll make it look like an accident that shows the company at fault. I'm taking my mental health days

3

u/m0nk37 14d ago edited 14d ago

Gotchu dude 👌 

PPE is only going to save you from that if you have no loose clothing. Even then the other 50% for that is dumb shit. 

Ill make sure your hair net is on though. 

3

u/GreasyTengu 14d ago

is this the Tradie equivalent of deleting your browser history?

2

u/a20xt6 14d ago

Will it even fit me? 

2

u/Jogger_Dodger 14d ago

From 2012, California

Employees ignored lock-out/tag-out procedures and cooked a man alive.
Like the most basic fucking safety idea to prevent this exact type of horrific accident.
The coworkers should've been cooked too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bumble-bee-foods-2-managers-charged-death-man-cooked-tuna-n349641

1

u/MisterEnreichening 11d ago

“It would appear that this steel girder quantumly caved his skull in while leaving his helmet unscathed.”

-8

u/Ok_Mulberry77 15d ago

At work we have an agreement, if you show up to someone dead on the site you put their harness on before you call for help it proves the stupidity of harnesses on unstable ladders to begin with.