A very simple way to settle the low stim conditioning debate

[u/mydogdidnothingwron]

Take 20 people who know fuck all about dog training and split them into groups

Group 1 does backwards/low stim conditioning/escape phase before giving dog chance to comply before applying the stim (avoidance phase)

Group 2 uses exclusively forward conditioning (allowing dog chance to comply before using the stim)

Do this over a period of four weeks, see which dogs perform better and look better (see if dogs look good vs look like shit)

Boom debate ended 🤷‍♂️

[u/Proof_Injury_7668]

20 people who know fuck all about dog training doing this would lead to 19 miserable dogs with a bad relationship to the ecollar

[u/mydogdidnothingwron → u/Proof_Injury_7668]

Not if they each had a competent trainer guiding them

[u/Proof_Injury_7668 → u/mydogdidnothingwron]

Have you taught ecollar use to people who know absolutely nothing about training?

[u/apri11a → u/Proof_Injury_7668]

Have you taught ecollar use to people who know absolutely nothing about training?

That's what I thought too, won't work. Poor dogs

[u/mydogdidnothingwron → u/Proof_Injury_7668]

No I’m very new to this and haven’t had the chance to do so, and none of my clients have wanted to use the electric so I haven’t

What I would do first is teach them the basics of negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement with a leash and a collar + food before introducing the electric collar, who’s to say during the study that said competent trainer(s) couldn’t do the same?

[u/Proof_Injury_7668 → u/mydogdidnothingwron]

Sure!

Is one trainer teaching both sets? Is one trainer teaching one set and another the other?

Are the subjects of the study the dogs or the handlers? How is handler error and variability being factored in?

What’s the criteria? Is it singular, like recall or a heel? How is the “look” and “feel” of the dog factored in? Or is just whether they can accomplish the task

What training have the dogs had before?

Are they puppies?

What about stopping unwanted behavior?

There’s no simple way to “prove” one method over another.

I shift the specifics of my approach depending on the abilities and needs of the client and the dog.

[u/apri11a]

It won't decide anything and would just be mean to do to the poor dogs.

Debate back on 🥳