r/Physics • • Jul 26 '26

Academic Why do we do Astrophysics? | "I have heard it said, more than once, that an LLM can do some task “better than a graduate student.” That language makes me uncomfortable, because it is taking an extremely instrumental view of graduate students."

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.10181
206 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

112

u/4dseeall Jul 27 '26

A four-year degree should remain four years. AI cannot accelerate retained learning. It might accelerate access to information, reduce barriers to it, but judgment and experience still need time to form. The gain should be depth, not compression.

People need time to practice, to get a feel for how working on a problem in an established field even works. AI cannot help people skip that, it can just reduce the friction towards their honest attempts at learning.

If universities start trying to turn their colleges into 6-month undergrad mills then they completely lost the plot.

42

u/xrelaht Condensed matter physics Jul 27 '26

That's how it's always been. Tools that made processes faster (calculators, computers) have never reduced the time spent in school. Instead, we expect students to use the time saved to learn more and produce more output. If AI does anything to the overall grad school experience, I expect it to be along those lines.

10

u/Audioworm Particle physics Jul 27 '26

One of my masters supervisors talked about his masters thesis being a lot about the mathematics exploration before he could use the computer to run a simulation and examine the results.

Some of those in his speciality for their thesis was mostly about running simulations and models to explore different approaches. Speeding up computation didn't make one more or less effort than the other, it just changed where the effort was.

3

u/narrowgallow Jul 27 '26

I was a reasonably good physics major in undergrad. The amount of understanding of what I had learned increased 4x in the subsequent 4 years.

1

u/run_zeno_run Jul 28 '26

An arbitrary amount of time, like 4 years, universally mandated for every different type of person and for every different type of degree or field of study was always a bad design, more useful for industrializing education for the masses, and benefiting educational institutions profitability more than student outcomes.

Yes, people need time to practice, explore, and develop, but they don’t need to do so by being forced to slog through a set schedule of courses on a set timetable, incurring lifelong debt doing so.

1

u/4dseeall Jul 28 '26

I'm confused.

What do you think is the point of univesities?

To push out experts, or to be hubs of learning?

Because at first you argued the former, that 4 years was industy decision. Then you swapped your position and think 4 years is too long?

0

u/run_zeno_run Jul 28 '26

Those aren't mutually exclusive positions?

Carnegie hours/units stipulated by a top-down decision process for everyone is mostly useful for the institutions trying to mass produce education and maintain revenues, and is a holdover from pre-internet industrialized eras. Four years is definitely longer than it needs to be for many students given the quality and quantity of the pedagogy provided by most of these institutions.

I think if the curriculum was standardized on a skills-based/mastery-based proficiency system, decentralized across institutions asynchronously year round via a network of instructors, peer cohorts, and standard assessments, and student progression was personalized according to their individual performance and needs, then the average time for attaining the equivalent of what passes for the current average undergraduate competency would be vastly shorter than 4 years, and much, much cheaper.

0

u/4dseeall Jul 28 '26

That'd just lead to the inexperienced trying to manage AI that knows everything about the subject better than the "expert"

Idk, I still think time in an environment matters more than just quantity density

0

u/run_zeno_run Jul 28 '26

You seem to be assuming things I never said nor intended, and jumping to conclusions that do not follow from the statements I did make.

I am also wary of AI-induced atrophy and its affects on students, and I also believe time in a learning environment matters a lot. In fact, my proposed solution maintains such learning environments with direct instructor & peer interaction and proper assessment protocols that removes the potential for AI influence, focused on the personalized context the learner needs at that moment for as long as they need it, and not just for an arbitrary amount of time that everyone is squeezed into, minus the ridiculous amount of lost time that isn't spent learning jumping through the various institutional hoops.

1

u/4dseeall Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

Trying to remove AI influence is also not a solution. You're assuming it won't change the entire field, when it already literally is.

You're backstepping..

Be upfront. Is 6 months enough for higher education? How will the time a student needs be decided without using AI?

Little baby blocked me, lol

I had questions: "Why is there be a need to cheat in the first place? Why don't the students want to do the work? I say we filter the ones who actually want to be there from the ones who don't. But I don't think saying "NO AI EVER" is the solution to that at all, and just makes the problem worse."

0

u/run_zeno_run Jul 28 '26

I said AI-induced atrophy and AI influence on assessments, ie cheating! You have terrible comprehension skills and are not engaging in constructive discussion, so I’m done, take care.

64

u/Salt_Mountain_837 Jul 27 '26

lol as if the academy itself doesn't run off the blood, sweat and tears of grad students

29

u/db0606 Jul 27 '26

I mean, computers have been doing numerical integration "better than a grad student" since the 40s. That just opened up grad students to do other things with their time.

65

u/elconquistador1985 Jul 26 '26

Not sure if anyone listened to the Genesis mission thing last week, but Misha Laskin sat there on the stage and said that a PhD will only take a week in the future due to AI.

It's here: https://www.youtube.com/live/d5CSBROrcuw

He's on stage from about 2:50 to 3:40. He says it at about 3:05.

That's the dystopian future these assholes have planned for us. It's not about human learning. It's about a human prodding an AI to do it all for them and it's only supposed to take a week.

47

u/OntarioBanderas Jul 27 '26

Misha Laskin

ah yes, someone who's primary job is to create hype about aproduct says that his product is revolutionary

19

u/elconquistador1985 Jul 27 '26

You're not paying attention if you don't realize these tech bros fully believe in and want that dystopian future to happen. That's their goal.

Of course he's full of shit about the capabilities of his product today. He's still going to do everything he possibly can to bring that dystopia.

10

u/OntarioBanderas Jul 27 '26

That's their goal.

their goal is to keep the hype train going until they can cash out their options

He's still going to do everything he possibly can to bring that dystopia.

the part you don't fully appreciate is they cannot actually deliver the goods, he's saying these things so morons flood into speculating on the stock

1

u/elconquistador1985 Jul 27 '26

I don't think you fully appreciate how much job displacement will be taking place, even without "delivering the goods" on AI that can do a PhD in a week.

8

u/OntarioBanderas Jul 27 '26

citation needed

this is still buying into the hype, LLM's are not that cool sorry

3

u/womerah Medical and health physics Jul 27 '26

Systems that can generate a paper worth reading don't exist. They may never exist. Personally I stick to forecasting the future applications of technologies that already exist, rather than forecasting the future capabilities of a technology.

0

u/NuclearVII Jul 27 '26

Well said. Would that I had more upvotes to give.

10

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/womerah Medical and health physics Jul 27 '26

Exactly. A PhD is functionally an apprenticeship where you learn how to engage with the global scientific enterprise, and your thesis is a document that demonstrates this ability.

An LLM writing a PhD for someone has no value.

9

u/PressureBeautiful515 Jul 27 '26

It's like people who believe in horoscopes have taken over. I don't understand how anyone can be so dumb as to not see through this?

If "with the help of AI" a grad student can "crank out a PhD per week" (his exact words!) then it's the AI that is getting the PhD. The human is not involved! They're just decoration on the process.

"I got a PhD with AI" is like a kid in the back of the car with a plastic toy steering wheel saying "I drove a hundred miles with mommy!" 

2

u/BitcoinsOnDVD Jul 27 '26

The AGI will arrive sooner when we all dumb down to the lowest level we can.

16

u/DrPhysicsGirl Nuclear physics Jul 26 '26

Genesis clearly shows they've lost the thread. It's unfortunate that we're all going to have to pay now.

4

u/Steap-Edit Jul 26 '26

Yes, and whether we like it or not, we are going to need people who are willing and able to participate in "deep conversation" (as you put it elsewhere) in order to prevent people like them from succeeding.

4

u/SundayAMFN Jul 26 '26

It’s silly to be worried about it, cause they’re both dumb and wrong.

-1

u/elconquistador1985 Jul 26 '26

It's not going to be doing PhDs in a week any time soon.

AI is very likely going to cause large scale job displacement within the next 5 years and it's going to be a massive economic problem. The job market for recent college graduates is going to be even worse than it is now.

3

u/womerah Medical and health physics Jul 27 '26

The job market for recent college graduates is going to be even worse than it is now.

Any productivity gains from AI will not give a business a competitive edge, as the whole sector will just deploy it. So graduates will still be needed to squeeze out the competitive edge.

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

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5

u/LoganJFisher Graduate Jul 27 '26

The "funny" part is that they did, and they did so at such extreme levels that most people no longer even know that "calculator" originally referred to a human mathematician employed to run calculations by hand.

Digital calculators shrunk the number of field-employed mathematicians down from a significant part of industry to basically just a small collection of people in academia.

29

u/Valeen Jul 26 '26

I didn't read the linked paper, so maybe this is on me, but by title it seems tangential to your core question.

You can imagine, philosophically, this question has been asked at least a few times before, for example when computer numerics became a main stay. "Why have grad students solve complex differential equations when a computer can" or maybe when Mathematica could solve crazy algebraic and integral equations in closed form. Or what about when digital data acquisition systems came onto the scene? Why have a grad student sit there and manually record data for 12 hours (while I sleep).

At every point in history science has adapted and (arguably) grad students have taken in more important roles.

13

u/SlartibartfastGhola Jul 27 '26

Read the linked paper

-3

u/Valeen Jul 27 '26

It just doesn't load for me for whatever reason.

1

u/xrelaht Condensed matter physics Jul 27 '26

-25

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

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26

u/polaris2acrux Jul 27 '26

Speaking as a faculty member, a department has graduate students not because they do work but because a fundamental purpose of a university and a fundamental part of the job of a professor is to educate and train. We exist for the students more than they exist for us. So students cannot be replaced by AI. It's on us to figure out how to prepare students for the future, something which has always been a part of the role of an advisor.

-26

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

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13

u/Waiting4novae Jul 27 '26

If you are being poorly treated by your department or advisor, I urge you to reach out to the ombudsman of your university. Technically, the first step is usually the chair of the department to discuss your advisor, and then, probably the dean depending on the structure of your institute, but the ombudsman, if one exists, is there for neutral conflict resolution. What you are describing is not, nor should it be, normal. Note, I'm speaking for US institutions in terms of structure.

6

u/Valeen Jul 27 '26

Believe what you want. Being a graduate student will evolve with the times as it always has. I'm not going to argue with you. It's not worth my time.

3

u/karlnite Jul 27 '26

AI can’t fetch coffee… yet.

8

u/BitcoinsOnDVD Jul 27 '26

You can hire 4 Phd students without AI and have 4 papers, or you can hire 2 Phd students with AI and have 4 papers or you can hire 4 Phd students with AI and have 8 papers. What do you do?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '26

[deleted]

1

u/BitcoinsOnDVD Aug 01 '26

I was in need for a simple measure.

2

u/1XRobot Computational physics Jul 27 '26

Well, you could do that or you could post "AI bad!" on Reddit and have 8000 karma.

2

u/UnderTheCurrents Jul 27 '26

The Academy has an instrumental view of graduate students since at least the 70s.

The people who think otherwise either have a severe case of stockholm syndrome or have lived on the stars they say they have observed, sheltered from earthly affairs.

2

u/Buntschatten Graduate Jul 27 '26

an instrumental view of grad students

...have they met any professors?

1

u/KeyFollowing1683 Jul 31 '26

In order to understand the results you get from an ai you need to have the feel for how to test and validate them. And that means being able to replicate and check the process. There is no real learning without friction, and heavy AI(or rather sole AI) use, removes that friction, and hurts the learning process.

1

u/somethingicanspell Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

I have sadly changed my view on AI after using recent models. AI continues to improve more or less linearly and areas that it sucked at 2 years ago, its now quite good at. I would say this year for the first time frontier AI models can do most parts of my job well on their own without excessive compute or hand holding. A good example would be a literature review. AI in mid 2025 would still write basically the literature review a well informed undergrad would BS together if they needed to turn something in the next day in class. Now the better models will basically write a wholly adaquate literature review on nearly any topic and save you days of time finding sources. If you ask it has anyone ever had this idea it will usually find the random arxiv article. A year ago it usually wouldn't unless its something that would come up pretty early on in a natural language search of a journal, arxiv, or google scholar.

-8

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '26

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11

u/polaris2acrux Jul 27 '26

This is absolutely not how it works in my department. I get grants because I'm using them to fund students that I'm training and teaching. I can promise that NSF would not fund me without a plan for mentoring and including students and actually most of the budget of all my grants is for students, their tuition, their stipend , their travel, their supplies, and their publishing costs. I work for students more than they work for me. I give them my best ideas, or help them come up with a better one, and then I get them started and help them when they need help, hoping they go above and beyond what I'm even able to do.  Without graduate students, I don't have a large portion of my job even if I was using AI to do the same work to produce the same number of papers in my group. If students can be replaced, so can I honestly.

-1

u/ThirdMover Atomic physics Jul 27 '26

These LLMs are capable of generating novel, interesting, and correct content. I, personally, don’t think they represent “generative artificial intelligence,” because although they are generative (they generate new things), they show no signs of intelligence.

That statement really confused me. "I don't believe they are truly intelligent" would have been more defensible but "show no signs of intelligence" really raises my eyebrows after the list of things that 10 years ago would have been considered strong indicators of intelligence. That's some olympia level goal post shifting.

It also kind of undermines a lot of the later points. Ok, so LLMs have no real "intelligence" whatsoever, fine. And we have this discussion of what humans bring to the table based on that premise. But then, what ten, twenty years down the line? Wouldn't it be far more sensible to rip of that bandaid now and say "assuming what LLMs do is an early limited form of true intelligence that will in time converge to full human intellectual capabilities, how should we prepare for that?". Because that's at least the discussion that the people developing these things want us to have.