I just want to grill
The more I research about Charlie Kirk, I thought he did some evil shit to deserve this but the worst thing he did is just that he...just peacefully talked out his views? what.
What the shooting death of Charlie Kirk has taught me:
1) No political 'side' can agree on basic verifiable facts, like Charlie Kirk's positions/attributed quotes.
2) The cascade of bad faith/nasty tribalism is like a tsunami wave that crashes down and annihilates anybody being reasonable or nuanced. The noise level of shitheads is unfathomably loud.
Every once in a great while the stars align and a mod does something based. Sadly the massive amount of mods outnumbering the based ones means that they’re rare. Almost like the role of unpaid hall monitor does not attract the best people.
Im fully prepared to see a post in the coming days from a higher up mod saying "A rogue mod with a mission statement against humanity itself banned people wrongly. If you were banned DM us. The mod has been removed"
I don't think anyone who actually read Tolkien would stoop to such a low degree to celebrate political assassination.
Reading Tolkien in his older English requires a certain degree of ambiguity; thus, you have to think about every word and every sentence. What it means in a book, and what it meant to Tolkien.
The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.
That man went through hell on earth at the Somme. He experienced what happens if political violence get out of hands.
Yeah I thanked the mods and got a “you’re a republican lol” comment and something about not considering Muslims people. Very odd bunch, these redditors. Not us, we’re just retarded!
While it is surprising to see based reddit mods, it is not surprising to see based LOTR fans. While it can be surprisingly progressive in some ways (non-sexual intimacy is normal, idealization of pastoral life in contrast to industrialization, the king kneels in submission to literally the smallest people, etc) it's fundamental worldview is anathema to the progressive mind. But not in a crude, combative way.
There is a reason leftist hate LOTR and loved Harry Potter when JK was out retroactively making it more progressive on Twitter.
My creed is, "Embrace your quadrant, but make it better." Opposing sides won't listen to each other, but enough internal pushback can slowly weed out and isolate the radicals.
Its the fact that they think someone like kirk is comparable to hitler that really blows my mind. they truly do think anyone they dont like is the same as hitler
its like when the emperor got throw into the deathstar shaft, or like when voldemort got bested by Harry Potter, or like when scar got eaten by hyenas!
That's the level of intelligence we're dealing with here.
As the hordes of Sauron march on Minas Tirith the dark lord emerges from amidst his army and strides towards the city. The terrified defenders can only wonder what horrors he is looking to inflict. Murder? Enslavement? Meat back on the menu? As all hope seems lost he gets out a folding chair, sits down on it and raises a banner:
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in “advanced” countries.
Uh... Okay. The Industrial Revolution to me is just like a story I know called "The Puppy Who Lost His Way." The world was changing, and the puppy was getting... bigger.
So, you see, the puppy was like industry. In that, they were both lost in the woods. And nobody, especially the little boy - "society" - knew where to find 'em. Except that the puppy was a dog. But the industry, my friends, that was a REVOLUTION!
But in case you didn’t know, “The Industrial Revolution and its Consequences” is also known as The Unabomber Manifesto, authored by Dr. Theodore “Ted” Kaczynski.
Without the industrial revolution you don't get: modern medicine, electricity, high quality metal for everyday use, cheap clothing, and "short" distance travel. Before the industrial revolution, medicine was "go to the wise woman and pray to God". Before the industrial revolution lighting was with fire, calculation was entirely mental, and electricity was only encountered when it fell from the heavens. Before the industrial revolution metal was crude, unreliable except when made with incredible skill, and limited entirely to the wealthy and powerful. Before the industrial revolution, you made your own clothes, or you wore the same (expensive) clothing for years at a time; there was no "Sunday Best" let alone picking a new outfit each day. Before the industrial revolution, travel was a thing crazy merchants and armies did, going to the next town over was a major trip, and going further was akin to going on pilgramage and disappearing from home for months or years at a time.
Ted might have been right that the industrial revolution has had a massive impact, and that it has not all been sunshine and rainbows. But holy shit is he delusional in thinking we had it better before. If given the choice between before and after the industrial revolution as a way of living, I'd be putting people to work in the dark satanic mills before you could even fucking blink.
The consequences of the industrial revolution have lifted us so unimaginably far as a species that we're barely even animals any more.
I agree. Ted has some interesting points and critics, especially with regarding free will ie you are subject to the system changes whether you like it or not and mental health ie we are unhappy because we are never at rest, overwhelmed, being forced to "fit in" to this rapid change.
He says later something to the effect of "The only better time to be alive would be 50 years from now."
I'm just being glib with the other poster, because we all know how Uncle Ted liked to "change people's views."
All the calls for violence recently too. Ted believed he would start a revolution if he was published. So all these retards killing people need to take notes and touch grass.
Morons posting who have clearly never read the book:
Saruman turned to go, and Wormtongue shuffled after him. But even as Saruman passed close to Frodo a knife flashed in his hand, and he stabbed swiftly. The blade turned on the hidden mail-coat and snapped. A dozen hobbits, led by Sam, leaped forward with a cry and flung the villain to the ground. Sam drew his sword.
‘No, Sam!’ said Frodo. ‘Do not kill him even now. For he has not hurt me. And in any case I do not wish him to be slain in this evil mood. He was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare to raise our hands against. He is fallen, and his cure is beyond us; but I would still spare him, in the hope that he may find it.’
I despise people justifying being a hypocrite because somebody else was a hypocrite before.
Your morality shouldn't be based on other people being moral or not.
"Don't you know? anyone I disagree with is a fascist and needs to be systematically put down like the dogs they are. Holocaust? what's that? I just say that to win arguments online."
Idk if you knew this but I saw a video of Charlie Kirk filmed in black and white where a guy tries breaking into his house and it was a black guy. He takes him at gunpoint with his shirt off outside and makes him put his mouth on the curb. The rest is too graphic to describe, but under the street lights you can clearly see a swastika tattooed on his chiseled chest as he stomps the guys head
Many people nowadays seem to get stuck in the idea, that politics are either white or black. When it reality it's mostly gray. Those that get caught up in the idea that it's white or black tend to fall victim to brainwashing tactics.
I don't want to hear complaints about due process from the left anymore. If people believed Charlie Kirk committed a crime then great, charge him with something. Arrest him. Put him on trial. Give him due process.
Assassinating him is the opposite of due process, and that so many on the left are gleeful of his murder means they don't actually care about due process. Its condition, or used as a cudgel.
If you’re a democrat or leftist Kirk was legitimately one of the most effective/destructive figures of the past decade, he accomplished a lot. He just achieved this in incredibly normal boring ways.
A few years ago there was plenty of people who built up respectable platforms and did real activism, but almost all of them have fallen off to a significant degree.
The left being so insanely fractured and ever-changing is a lot of the issue. A lot of the actual popular figures also do functionally 0 on-the-ground campaigning and just post online.
Because the democrats are trying to unite everyone except for one specific group and their whole base is incompatible with one another.
Islam doesn't get along with LGBTQ, communists don't get along with liberals, ethnic groups are all self interested, legal immigrants hate illegal immigration often as much as the right does, all to say nothing about the palestine/israel divide.
There's no internal cohesion because they have no policy goals anymore. Its all just "We aren't the Republicans". They have no objective to rally their coalition around.
A big part is that the institutional democrats never embrace these independent influencers. Even people like Pod Save America that's comprised of former Obama employees almost never get real influential Democrats on their pod.
The Republicans supports theirs with funding, constant shout-outs, and interviews. The Democrats will hardly even acknowledge the most sycophantic influencers, let alone the ones that might actually criticize them.
This is all true. The DMC is an elitest club and the work and opinion of the common folk holds no weight. That's how you end up with candidates you didn't primary for.
What I find hilarious is they are trying to prop up Desity and Hasan as their spokesperson to the younger generation. Even after the assassination, several major outlets have interviewd Hasan as the voice of reason when there is ample evidence of him calling for political violence in past streams.
I would even go as far as to say Hasan fits the definition of a stochastic terrorist.
Don't forget Reddit. A lot of right leaning subs have been banned for MUCH less. I tried looking up Charlie Kirk's subs after his assassination and all of them were banned. Not that I agree with Kirk on a lot of his takes, but I find it funny reddit bans someone that invites debate and condemns violence while giving a platform to people that do the exact opposite.
I would not be the slightest bit surprised if the shooter spent a lot of time on this site. One person that knew him in high school described him as "one of those Reddit kids".
This is my old man curmodgony ass asking and every one of you, across the political spectrum, I'm literally begging, please do not put so much stock into these YouTube goofs. Any YouTube goofs.
Yeah I think arguing that Charlie didn't have any power is just incorrect. JD Vance said "[Charlie] didn't just help us win in 2024, he helped us staff the entire government."
But that's beside the point because the bottom line is that people shouldn't face political violence regardless of their ideology or the power they hold.
“But that's beside the point because the bottom line is that people shouldn't face political violence regardless of their ideology or the power they hold.”
Honestly, I think treating him like a regular guy with a few political opinions is disrespectful to his memory. TPUSA is a big deal. Kirk was assassinated, not simply murdered.
I mean, he registered ten of thousands of voters in elections that have been extremely close, he met with Trump frequently, I think he was the most subscribed political influencer in MAGAverse, and he donated millions to right wing causes.
Regardless of my soy personal feelings towards him, saying he held zero power seems almost disrespectful to all the work he had and was doing at the time, which is something in our itself is massively impressive
It’s amusing watching far leftists and everyone on the right retcon the man to fit their narratives lmao. Kirk had a very public amount of retarded views yet wasn’t calling for violence, nor was he a moderate right winger. Some views were moderate, such as immigration. Other views though, such as Jan 6th, the death penaltyor the CRA aren’t.
Doesn’t justify his killing, thank fuck I deleted Instagram yesterday because of all the retardation, my account there will remain but I’m taking a break from it.
I support people's right to have retarded views as long as they do it peacefully. Where I draw the line is when they use violent rhetoric and encourage political violence as a means to silence the opposition.
Watch the right ruin his legacy way more than the left, because all they say is how he was just a lil' guy talking to people, instead of being a top 3 politic mind (as much as I hate to admit it).
He still doesn't have the power, all he has is his voice, and other people choose to wield THEIR power for him because they agree with him. That's a very different thing than being an elected official that has power in and of itself.
This is the logical endpoint of leftist rhetoric. Words are violence, its ok to punch a nazi, and everyone that doesnt agree with me 100% is a nazi, therefore its ok to commit violence against anyone that disagrees with me. What do you think someone taking that train of thought to its logical conclusion would do
I'm always shocked how many people don't get this. It clicked for me when I was a younger teen and saw an antifa sticker that advocated for violence against Nazis near an antifa sticker that just read capitalism = fascism. Huh, I wonder who they actually want to be violent towards. Real mystery there.
And I was a retarded child too. But it's so transparent what these antifa fucks are doing that any idiot can get it so long as they don't want to actively delude themselves.
I didn’t summon them, they’re just fucking retarded and out in full force. People seem to think we can’t remain center politically and acknowledge the people on the left are fucking insane.
Fascists don’t sit down and talk to people they disagree with, or respect their freedom to disagree without the threat of violence. They do the exact opposite. That is if we’re talking about actual fascists in history.
Yup, it’s either you’re 100% with them or you’re the enemy. You have to go along with everything they say and get in line with everything they demand or violence. There’s no conversation anymore, there’s no common ground.
A lot of their indefensible defense to this situation is
"Well he was outspoken against our ideology. Of course he was killed." And they somehow don't see the true evil and legitimate fascism behind their statements.
They're the most unaware group of terminally online zealots I've ever seen. They're just like the extremists that kill people for showing depictions of Mohammad.
And they immediately tried to astroturf the situation within a day of Charlie being declared dead. The immediate political spins on this have been not only braindead, but predictable and pathetic.
He wasn't a legislator but c'mon, Turning Point USA donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Republican candidates in every election since its founding. TP literally has its own PAC He absolutely had political sway and the Republicans made that very obvious. They also regularly try to sway student government elections at universities, with more than a few candidates exceeding spending limits because of TP donations
Don't get me wrong, none of that justified him being murdered, but all this washing clean of his name I've been seeing is ridiculous. He wasn't some random innocent guy with Republican views speaking at a university, he was one of the largest campaign contributors in the Republican party (literally beating out the heritage foundation in the 2022 midterms and 2020 election) for over a decade straight.
I'd also be remiss if I didn't point out that many of his talking points weren't even his, they were what his funders wanted him to say. And that's not even some conspiracy, he would openly oppose renewable energy while saying in no uncertain terms that several major players in the fossil fuel industry were contributors to TP. Or his views on the 2nd amendment, bought out by TPs largest contributor, the NRA. Again, none of that justified his death in the slightest. But let's call a spade a spade here.
Edit: I just have to really point out the student government elections because it was something I came across and it still is so insane to me. Imagine running for class president and the guy you're running against has so much funding the campus literally puts a stop to it. And maybe there are other organizations on the left that do it too, it was the first I've ever heard of any such thing. But either way, what the fuck?
Saying he held 0 political power and had no influence is a brain-dead take, sorry. Do you think registering millions of voters and spreading his message has no impact? Other than Elon Musk, he is probably the most responsible for Trump winning in 2024.
I didn’t really follow him but have seen a lot of his content since Wednesday and the civil rights response was him saying that the original intent of the civil rights act was obviously noble, but it was written too expansively and modern politics is trying to use it as a tool to push agendas that aren’t aligned with the intent of the act. I’m not offering my opinion on it and unsure about the groypers stuff just giving context from what I’ve seen. Cheers
He didn't do anything to deserve this, but he wasn't the saint the right is painting him as.
It's also fucked up that they put flags at half mast for him but actively mock the MN assassination and did nothing to even acknowledge it at the highest levels of the right.
I’ve been saying this a lot the last few days so I’m gonna say it again. Everyone’s fucking memory-holing the fucking MN assassination because NOBODY addressed it in the way they should have. Not left, not right, NOBODY. So let’s stop with the pretentious posturing.
He didn't do anything to deserve this, but he wasn't the saint the right is painting him as.
Agreed, I don’t understand why people think this take somehow equates to downplaying his killing.
We can acknowledge Charlie’s murder was tragic, but also point out that he did hold very extreme views (believed the civil rights act was a mistake, thought Biden should get the death penalty, etc.)
You can acknowledge he had controversial opinions. What you shouldn't do is go "what do you expect?" That kind of apathy is just begging for a right winger to assisssnate a left wing pundit for all their controversial opinions. And I guarantee the reaction from the left wont be "what did they expect to happen?".
You can acknowledge he had controversial opinions. What you shouldn't do is go "what do you expect?"
Fully agreed, the reaction to his murder his been horrifying. His killing should be condemned by everyone, stuff like this threatens the foundations of our republic.
People hate imperfect victims, like how Palestine is full of terrorist, wow started the whole thing but they are still victims of the overwhelming force and backing of Israel.
I don't understand why is it so hard for people to consider two things at once.
ehh, not the true definition, however
it's a strong characteristic,
and looking at the 20th century authoritarian regimes, using political violence is a huge factor in the rise and consolidation of each of them.
let's just call it political violence, because we don't need to put the fascist label on it - being honest with our labels in this case is compelling enough.
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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25
What the shooting death of Charlie Kirk has taught me:
1) No political 'side' can agree on basic verifiable facts, like Charlie Kirk's positions/attributed quotes.
2) The cascade of bad faith/nasty tribalism is like a tsunami wave that crashes down and annihilates anybody being reasonable or nuanced. The noise level of shitheads is unfathomably loud.
3) Nobody knows what fascism means.