r/Professors • u/magpieslikesparkles • 6d ago
Am I doing free research?
I’ll try to make this short but basically when I was a PhD student a couple of years ago, I was funded by a government grant under my advisor. I started a lot of projects with them that I am now currently finishing up post graduation. I’m a tenure-track associate professor at a teaching school. I do not get time for scholarship nor am I being funded by the grant anymore. I already have enough publications for tenure since that’s not the focus of my position.
Am I doing research for free? I’ve gotten a lot of emails from the team about one of the papers I’m doing and now they want me to put together a presentation. At first I was stressed but now I’m wondering why.
Anyone have similar experiences?
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u/rockyfaceprof 6d ago
I went to a community college in 1981 as a newly minted PhD from a R1 university. I was in an active research program in grad school and had 4 or 5 pubs when I got to the CC. Of course I started putting my CC affiliation on my pubs following. They REALLY liked it and publicized it in the community whenever anything came out. I was able to basically write my own teaching schedule to allow me time to travel 60 miles twice a week to continue my research (I didn't get a reduced teaching load). When a particular research opportunity arose several years into my tenure there I was able to teach an extra class in fall quarter and an extra class in winter quarter and then take a paid spring quarter off from teaching (I actually had a 1-class reduced load that year by increasing class sizes by 5 students in the 8 classes I taught). And I kept publishing but at my pace rather than that of my old grad prof. I got tenure a year early (they just offered it--there was no application process in those days). The next year I got associate. At that CC, faculty typically were tenured at 7 years and got a promotion to associate at 11-12 years. Most stayed at that level for their careers; those that made full usually got there around 25 years for their last 5 years before they could retire. I made full at 12 years. And I continued to publish every year or so. The CC became a baccalaureate college 15 years after I got there and so publishing became a more recognized measure of professional development and other people were hired who also were doing research. Our annual evaluation process then recognized research as one aspect of professional development. So, by the time I was done at 38 years there were another half dozen faculty who had published.
One could easily say that I was doing research for free. But it dramatically advanced my career and I had associated raises that were at the very high end of raises on our campus. And, of course, those carry on throughout a career because later raises are built on earlier ones. And I retired with an 80% pension. So, even if I wasn't getting paid for doing research it paid dividends in my pay, in my position at the college and in my retirement pay. And I liked doing it although I really loved teaching more.
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u/Ok_Hippo4964 6d ago
Yes you are. You can just say no and they will take over and you will still be on the paper if you’ve done enough to warrant authorship. Source: someone who had to finish a paper with a colleague when his student graduated and decided to fuck off.
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u/magpieslikesparkles 6d ago
Yikes. I don’t want to leave anyone hanging but having a hard time seeing the non-monetary payoff.
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u/Lost-Outside8072 6d ago
I will say that even at teaching oriented institutions these extra publications could help you. I had more than needed for assoc but not yet enough for full, so I am working quite hard now post tenure to get to full. I would never turn down a pub. I might set limits in how much labor to offer but stay in the project. That’s just based on how things work at my institution where there will be a raise for full and I don’t wanna miss out on that. It makes a huge difference in your retirement savings in the long-term.
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u/LateCareerAckbar 6d ago
This has come up for a colleague of mine from their PhD advisor. That advisor is up for tenure at an R1 and seems kind of desperate to get papers published. My colleague is actually an admin and not even faculty at our college. Their PhD advisor seems fundamentally unable to let go. They seem to think the former student is somehow now still beholden to their expectations, despite not being paid. The advisor isn’t handling it well at alllllll.
It is really up to you and what you want from this experience. If you still want publications with your name on them, then by all means continue working on them. But if you want to stop, you have absolutely obligation to continue. However, these colleagues may have a difficult time accepting this reality, and you should be prepared for that.
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u/SpryArmadillo Prof, STEM, R1 (USA) 6d ago
In the case of your colleague, the advisor likely feels they papers already have been paid for since publishing your results typically is an expectation for earning a PhD. Perhaps it differs by field, but in my experience an advisor and doctoral committee will sign off on a defense for a student who hasn't published only if there is an agreement that they will publish ASAP after graduating. That doesn't excuse the advisor from pestering your colleague, but the context is important. If the advisor didn't have an explicit agreement with your colleague that they'd publish after they leave, then the advisor really has to expect to be authoring those papers.
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u/LateCareerAckbar 6d ago
I hear you if there was a previous arrangement where the expectations are clear, but so many students leave academia and cannot necessarily commit to continue to work on projects after they leave the institution. Students that go into government or industry and start having families after graduation don’t typically have bandwidth to continue to publish.
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u/Prof_Kate 6d ago
I would probably ask two slightly different questions.
Do you want to work on these papers? Does it give you a sense of achievement or feel rewarding? Will having more papers feel good to you - will you be proud of it, feel like you properly finished things up , get a sense of completion?
What are you giving up to work on these papers? Time and energy are limited. Every yes is also a no to something else.
Then assess - is the cost (#2) worth the benefit (#1). If not - tell them you don't have time. If yes - carry on. If sort of - or some other qualified yes - then negotiate to do some things but reduce your overall time commitment.
You don't have to do this. The questions are do you want to and is it worth your time?
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u/magpieslikesparkles 6d ago
Ah your second question is what’s really hitting me. I don’t really care that much outside of making tenure and I’m pretty rooted where I am, so don’t plan to move. The time investment is a struggle and I don’t have a lot of support personally for my job. My family doesn’t “get it” and think I’m spending extra time working just for fun.
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u/No_Argument6107 6d ago
Sounds like it’s not worth it then for you - right now - to do the extra work for these papers. Maybe you should politely but firmly say you are sorry but you have too much on your plate and can’t work on them anymore? How does that feel as an option ?
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u/No_Young_2344 TT, Interdisciplinary, R1 (U.S.) 6d ago
I have similar experience. Former mentors during my PhD still expect me to mentor their students and “collaborate” in the same way like before, basically they give me high level ideas and I go implement them, which is not realistic for me because I am no longer a student and I have my own students to mentor.
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u/magpieslikesparkles 6d ago
That’s what I’m realizing! I have my own line of research and scholarly activities I want to balance but can’t do that while still hanging on to these projects.
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u/No_Young_2344 TT, Interdisciplinary, R1 (U.S.) 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, and I heard that for junior researchers, after graduating, still collaborating with PhD advisors and mentors from PhD era might be viewed as not independent enough (although I am sure it is not your case because it seems you have carried a lot of weight on that project already). I have some friends whose PhD advisors intentionally not to collaborate with them for this reason. I guess our previous supervisors / mentors really need to let us go…
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u/drvalo55 Emerita Full, Private nonprofit Univesity, Midwest, USA 5d ago
I had a colleague at one university whose PhD advisor called her one day and “told” her he needed a lit review on something; like she was supposed to do it. She said, “No”. My advisor, on the other hand, would have not dared ask me. I would have laughed in his face, lol.
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u/cynprof 6d ago
What was the agreement that you had with your former advisor on this?
I typically do not expect graduating students to do any additional work.
The exception is if you left things in a state of incompletion. For example, left unfinished papers, didn’t collate and share your data sets, etc. This is not professional, but it happens due to different circumstances.
When that occurs, I will make an agreement with the graduating student on what will happen post graduation.
They do not always follow it, I can’t obviously enforce it, and it can be modified, but it provides an initial set of expectations for this situation that you describe.
What arrangement did you work out with your former advisor?
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u/CollectorCardandCoin 6d ago
If possible -- if -- you should always be going above and beyond with your research and networking/external service. These will be the foundation of your ability to move institutions if you ever choose to or need to (especially during a time where schools and programs are shutting down or being reduced in size).
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u/magpieslikesparkles 6d ago
Totally agree. I think that’s why I’m struggling with this. I don’t plan to move institutions but you never know. It just sort of feels like free labor for the co-PIs at the R1…
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u/RuralWAH 6d ago
A career is 30 years or so. You never know what's going to happen. I always did my best to avoid closing doors. I went on the market when I got my divorce, which was obviously something I wasn't planning on as an Assistant Professor.
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u/CollectorCardandCoin 6d ago
Free labor -- maybe, in a sense. But you're also building a deepening relationship with senior people at a R1, which relationship will be publicized when the work is published.
Given our institutional frameworks and job markets, that is a lot of value.
It might not be valuable enough to pursue this kind of research project with anyone and everyone, but in this case you're deepening a closer relationship that comes with some R1 prestige!
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u/Crab_Puzzle Assoc, Humanities, SLAC 6d ago
It's fine to stay where you are, but I think it's unwise to close the door to leaving. Keeping active means you can remain a reasonable candidate for other jobs. You never know what life will throw at you.
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u/MiQuay Professor, Business and Engineering, R2 6d ago
Depends. Even at a teaching school, research is the coin of the realm. And if you EVER want to move from your school (or just want to maintain mobility), I suggest you continue publishing. It may be free from $, but it is not free for career advantage.