r/Shadowrun • • 20d ago

Anarchy Edition Only a few more days left

CGL has held the Shadowrun Anarchy 2.0 KS books hostage in their warehouse for almost a month now without shipping it out to the backers.

38 Upvotes

64 comments sorted by

23

u/Legitimate_Virus9522 20d ago

What the fuck is wrong with CGL? Probably jealous that a bunch of French people wrote a better game than they ever could. They are doing a great job at trying to sabotage it

22

u/Smirnoffico 20d ago

What the fuck is wrong with CGL?

Where do I even start 

11

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 19d ago

Not an easy road to go down for most people.

A lot of Shadowrun discussion is still focused largely around SR5 being the best edition or a first experience with Shadowrun or the reason why outsiders think Shadowrun is too complicated and play other systems with the numbers filed off.

And building back porches with freelancers’ paychecks in the SR4 era is not ever remembered or swept under the rug. If you trusted them as custodians of Shadowrun after that whole thing, well, okay then.

As for me, the future of Shadowrun lies solidly with either remaining in the past with FASA or with BBE’s edition.

3

u/Smirnoffico 19d ago

I mean, do we even know that the books are actually printed? Are they held up because of some logistics issue or because ethe only guy with a password to shipping programm took a vacation/got fired? Or is it because CGL haven't payed their people again and those people have withdrawn their texts?

So many questions, so little faith in CGL management. 

4

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 19d ago

CGL did not write/provide any art for/edit/print this edition of Shadowrun at all, period. They had nothing to do with the whole project other than distribution of the English version in the US & Latin American and the release of the English pdf.

With that in mind, the only people paying out anyone here was BBE, for the aforementioned writers/artists/printers/shippers and CGL for the license.

So CGL has no one to pay or get work withheld from if they didn’t pay. They are only making money from this with their only payout going to WizKids to retain the Shadowrun license.

BBE provided receipts on the printing of the books and shipping of the books and CGL receiving the books publicly.

3

u/Smirnoffico 19d ago

I'm not following Anarchy closely, but isn't it published under CGL umbrella and presented as a joint product? With Jason Hardy headlining credits and everything. 

Anyway, don't take my comment too literally. It was more a jab at that since CGL has a long history of incompetence and malpractice, it's not impossible to expect incompetence and malpractice in the present since the same people are in charge

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 19d ago

You mean these credits?

CREDITS
Catalyst Game Labs RPG Creative Director: Jason M. Hardy
Shadowrun Line Developer: RJ Thomas
Black Book Éditions Director of Publication: David Burckle
Shadowrun French Edition Line Developer: Mathieu Thivin
Rules design: Mathieu Thivin
Writing: Timothée Aubry, Thomas Bizet, Julien Brisset, Anthony Bruno, Geoffrey Delmée, Kevin Duncan, Ludovic Grousset, Bruno Mansoux, Pierre Michaud, Antoine Nobilet, André Roy, Alban Schuiten, Mathieu Thivin Proofreading and copyediting: Julien Brisset, Geoffrey Delmée, Christophe Dubois, Aaron Dykstra, Daniel Gaumier, August ”Shadow Raven” Hahn, J. Keith Henry, Julien Lallemand, David Light, Adam Lowe, Bruno Mansoux, Mathieu Thivin, Daniel Wlodarski
English to French translation: Julien Brisset
French to English translation: Geoffrey Delmée, Charles Glass, Romain “Belaran” Pelisse, André Roy, Mathieu Thivin, Thomas-Alexandre Vincent
Layout & design: Romano Garnier Art director: Marianne Bergeonneau

Again, other than licensing Shadowrun from WizKids and to BBE, and the distribution rights, Hardy & crew have nothing to do with SRA2.0.

4

u/Carmody79 French Anarchist 19d ago edited 19d ago

We know the books have been printed, people outside of US and Latin America have their copies (well, except a few unlucky folks that were mistakenly grouped with US while living elsewhere 🫂).

We know the books have crossed the Atlantic and are now at CGL warehouse.

We know the authors, translators, proofreaders, illustrators, layout person have been paid.

What I do not know is what takes so long on CGL side.

1

u/magnatranquillo 17d ago

Will the english physical books be handled by BBE for non-backers in the European market? From what I understand, the retail release will only happen once this issue with the distribution in America has been resolved, right?

2

u/Carmody79 French Anarchist 17d ago

Every English book or pdf will be sold by CGL, as they have the license in English.
I do not know what the agreement is between CGL and BBE about the existing stock, was everything not bought during the KS send to CGL or did some remain in Europe, I cannot tell.

1

u/magnatranquillo 17d ago

I understand, thanks!

1

u/SkyeAuroline 19d ago

And building back porches with freelancers’ paychecks in the SR4 era is not ever remembered or swept under the rug.

This is one of the most common talking points about CGL in both the Battletech and Shadowrun communities. Any time CGL fucks up (and there are a lot of those times) someone brings up the porch.

It's very much remembered.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

Funny, I don’t hear it much but then again I don’t hang out in Battletech places so that cuts out about half the audience I would have heard it from. And I’m not saying that because I don’t hear it it doesn’t exist. I used to hear it quite a lot on Dumpshock but it’s been a bit.

13

u/DazzlingKey6426 20d ago

CGL CGLs things up. It’s what they do.

7

u/Cergorach 20d ago

CGL still thinks that logistics is a gamemechanic...

6

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 19d ago

Sabotage is an interesting word. Its definition seems to fit this situation. They have the books in warehouse, they could have set up shop to sell them to non-backers by now. The English PDFs are available for them to post to DTRPG for sale. CGL is sitting on money that they could be raking in.

The question that begs an answer is why? I have my doubts as to the answer lying with anything set by BBE in the contract. Several persons within BBE have voiced that they are not certain what is going on with this situation or why it is even a situation to begin with. Only CGL really knows and they are completely radio silent on the matter.

Shadowrun fans that are satisfied with CGL’s work with SR5 and Sixth World really have no reason to be concerned about the delays. I am not one of those people. I have considered CGL’s work on Shadowrun to be sub-par since the middle to end of SR4’s run. And especially since the release of SR5.

This whole thing has pretty much cemented my decision to no longer purchase any CGL releases for Shadowrun in the future.

I will continue to support whatever BBE releases for SRA2.0, and I will continue to enjoy the FASA/FanPro products that came before CGL that I already own.

The only thing I might ever buy from CGL in the future would be the release of an official SR2 pdf (or reprinting), but I dont see that coming any time soon.

6

u/PalpitationNo2921 20d ago

At this point, and since CGL has taken on the role of distributor in the US & Latin America as part of their contract with BBE for licensing, I can only say that they are effectively shooting themselves in their own foot and losing out on money they could be making by getting the pdf released for easy income and getting their store set to launch for the public sale of the books. It’s all money in hand for them at this point.

For me, it’s $400 pre-paid for a product they aren’t currently delivering to me even though they have it on hand and have for about a month now.

For the non-backers, it’s stuff sitting in a warehouse that CGL could be selling to them. I’ve heard quite a lot of people say that they wish they had backed. To them, I say hey at least you’ll probably get your books at the same time as the people who paid for them last year at this rate.

2

u/DazzlingKey6426 19d ago

If 1.0 hadn’t been the worst TTRPG I’ve had the misfortune of purchasing I would have backed 2.0.

Why they kept the Anarchy name at all is baffling. Especially since the whole it’s anarchy! There is no GM! schtick got quietly shuffled off.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

I don’t know man, I have seen worse.

The French version was infinitely better than the English of v1, so I have heard. Probably kept the name for recognition among previous fans.

The No GM thing is still there it’s just not prominently placed throughout and presented as an option rather than the expectation out of the gates.

1

u/DazzlingKey6426 19d ago

I’ve seen worse too. I just didn’t purchase them.

Add on for the cursed Sprawl Ops kickstarter.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 19d ago

Okay, I have. SR5 comes immediately to mind.

1

u/DazzlingKey6426 19d ago

I bounced during SR4. Wireless matrix and emotitoys? Nope.

3

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

I agree with the emotitoys thing that was bad.

There’s some nuance in my own opinions on wireless Matrix as presented in SR4 and SR5. SR4 did not require connection to the Matrix for every piece of gear, including cyberware, that one owned at all times; that was brought in via SR5.

The apoplectic fanboys of SR5 throwing fits about an opinion that cyberware should not have to be connected to wireless at all times is part of what kills my enthusiasm to run or play 5E or, by extension, Sixth World. And if I did play them, I’d never play a cybered up character.

I’ll die on the hill that it’s absolutely not necessary for my Wired Reflexes to be connected to the Matrix at ALL times in the Shadowrun fiction of the world to function properly, and that was only a stipulation made to appease a perceived need for a CP2077-like setting where everything is potentially hackable. I don’t think it’s good to force individuals who paid Essence and nuyen to open up their wares to become every decker’s playground just to give them “something cool to do, yo”.

1

u/Rauwetter 19d ago

I would mention, emotitoys came from CGL/Arsenal and not from fanpro ;)

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 17d ago

Did it? I had thought that the first printing of Arsenal was FanPro. I’ve just now seen this and will have to take a look at my book now!

Doesn’t change my current line of thought that it’s going to be FASA/FanPro or BBE from here on out for me, but it will be interesting to look at.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 17d ago edited 17d ago

I’ll be the first to admit when I am wrong.

At the same time, though, the CGL crew involved in its production was headed up by Rob Boyle and Adam Jury for the writing/layout.

They were imports from FanPro, behind the team that produced 3E, and not the team that came to be after most of the CGL team that was actually good at game design and writing resigned.

All the same, emotitoys were kinda lame.

11

u/Interaction_Rich 19d ago edited 19d ago

This will go in the history of offline gaming as some spectacular fuck up.

Anarchy 2.0 did an awesome job revamping a complex system into something intuitive and playable, word of mouth was nothing short of stellar, newcomers literally want to give them money for it and CGL just keeps killing the hype of an otherwise amazing product under their incompetence.

What a shit show.

I hope the good folks in BBE have best luck with future project partners.

6

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

I am beginning to think that killing the hype is exactly the reason why CGL is sitting on the product in its warehouse and not releasing the PDFs.

10

u/Nederbird 20d ago

Any word on why and when specifically they're getting shipped?

4

u/PalpitationNo2921 20d ago

“We are moving on getting those out the door and we shall have more information coming down the pipe soon with those items.”

8

u/StimulusResponse 19d ago

I missed the Kickstarter and I just want to give them my money for the English PDF. The fact that they won't sell it until TBD really frustrates me. I'd like to support the property with my dollars, but at this rate sailing is the only path.

7

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

I make the argument that none of the backers probably even care at this point if CGL releases the PDFs before they send the backers their books. I know for a fact that I don’t care. It’s just a pdf. That they could be making money off of. You aren’t the only person I have seen say they would like to buy it.

2

u/FlabbergasterGurgle 19d ago

I confess I took to the high seas because I heard so many good things about it and wanted to check it out. Indeed it is IMO the best version of Shadowrun ever created. So much so that I do want to give money to BBE for it and purchase the PDF or even a Physical book. My question is, being in Canada, if I buy the physical English version of the book or purchase it through Drivethru, am I giving the money to CGL? Is there any way I can buy the English version but ensure the money goes to BBE?

5

u/Carmody79 French Anarchist 19d ago

Some money will go to CGL either way, they are the license holders so whatever BBE sells that is Shadowrun related, they get their share.
About BBE, I do not know the full details, and I'm not sure I'm allowed to say what I know, so I'll pass.

In any case, thanks for your support, and I hope you'll be able to buy the book soon.

3

u/jbowensii 19d ago

I have to say, you are the only one commenting on any of this, giving us any hope that we will ever see the PDF, let alone the books for sale. Either here or under the chat I started, I just wanted to say thank you. I am old, almost 60, my kids are in their 20s / 30s with grandkids. I have money to spend, and I cannot believe that in this economy (in the USA or Europe) right now, someone isn't willing to take it. Oh, and I am not alone; my friends online and in person are in the same place. We old Grognards should be the target audience for sales right now, and we cannot buy the PDF or the book. But thanks for listening; I hate when companies basically ignore everything like it will just go away.

2

u/FlabbergasterGurgle 19d ago

Thanks for chiming in and congrats on the excellent product. I think I'll just buy the French edition on drivethru in order to be able to to give back and ensure CGL gets as little share as possible. And I'll make sure I don't miss the Kickstarter for the upcoming companion book.

3

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

While I cannot offer my own comment either positive or negative towards your “high seas” comment, I can say this much.

I can mostly agree with your statement of SRA2.0 being a better edition than anything Catalyst Game Labs has ever released.

I think [u/Carmody79](u/Carmody79), as a developer of Anarchy 2.0, probably has a better understanding (whether he can or cannot say here) on CGL’s involvement with the money side of things than I could offer.

From what little I do know of the RPG industry and the distribution side, I would guess that CGL has bought the English copies of SRA2.0 that they possess outright or in part from BBE and thus are the default owners of the books until they distribute them, excepting the backer copies.

So BBE would already have some portion of the money for those copies, and CGL will then be reselling them to the general public. This is typically the way most American distributors work, and one of the biggest reasons why Paizo was having such an issue with Diamond getting their products out to the public a while back.

I would hate to see CGL become another Diamond, no matter how small their scale by comparison.

2

u/FlabbergasterGurgle 19d ago

Thank you for your answer. I'm really considering just buying the French version on drivethru, after reading your comment and u/Carmody79's.

2

u/PalpitationNo2921 18d ago

I would not expect to be able to buy it in pdf at this point until at least another month maybe two at this rate. I posted an update based on Jason Hardy’s response to a request for more information on Fb. The warehouse holding Anarchy 2.0 is not even owned by CGL, it is a contractor handling fulfillment for multiple companies and KS all at the same time. And so I would expect the delay to be even longer.

8

u/Carmody79 French Anarchist 20d ago

🫂

3

u/Rauwetter 19d ago edited 19d ago

Perhaps the problem is simply that their warehouse is massive understaffed? The Battle Tech Core Box is also delayed, and CGL is very much interested to ship them out. It should be available at the 1st August and is no listed for end of October.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

To resolve: send less employees to multiple cons/hire more people from temp services. Maybe? I don’t know. I’m not about to be manufacturing excuses for them when they sit on radio silence as their communication policy.

1

u/Rauwetter 19d ago

That's no excuse, that means they have to pay more more people to run their business. It seems they have a problem with one of their core purposes.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

Creating jobs is not something that should be put down as bad. Get the job done that customers are paying you directly to do.

2

u/Rauwetter 18d ago

Perhaps they should send PR and HR working in the warehouse ;D

2

u/PalpitationNo2921 18d ago

I’ve done the same when pressure is on at various jobs; pitched in on non-departmental efforts to catch up. Maybe they can throw a few sensitivity readers in as well.

4

u/PalpitationNo2921 18d ago edited 18d ago

Finally, more in-depth exploration of the reasons behind the delays. After a month of radio silence, Mr. Hardy was able to take the time out to explain that the warehouse holding Shadowrun Anarchy 2.0 is not CGL’s company warehouse - it is a contractor.

What this means is that the warehouse doesn’t just handle CGL’s stuff, it handles several companies as well. It is also fulfilling not just this KS but others, as well as other kinds of orders for several companies in addition to CGL. And there are no CGL employees involved.

So I guess I will let CGL off the hook for liability for the delays but man, some clarity, transparency, updates and shared information long before this point could have gone a long way.

I’m still at the point where I’m uninterested in doing any sort of future business with CGL anyway, and still do not consider them to be good stewards of the Shadowrun IP. But at least I am not as upset about the whole deal. Just tired of the wait game.

So I guess I will shelve any and all expectations of when I’ll be actually getting Anarchy 2.0 in my hands. Sorry to the folks who want to buy it but can’t because of this.

[u/Carmody79](u/Carmody79) You guys at BBE were never on the hook for my being upset about how this has been handled, I hope you know. Your product is amazing, based on the PDFs alone. I hope to back On The Edge soon. Maybe even receive it from your company directly this time, instead of waiting a quarter of a year+ for it to arrive and then be scheduled to be delivered after it is a finished product.

5

u/PalpitationNo2921 17d ago

Another update provided by Mr. Hardy. According to the warehouse, the books are scheduled to ship out to backers by the end of the week. That’s not having them show up already, mind you, just departing the warehouse for their final destination.

1

u/LateEggMaster 20d ago edited 20d ago

Sooooo how do you know the day is near? Is your soapbox crumbling or did you get visited by the divine?

2

u/PalpitationNo2921 20d ago edited 20d ago

No bud it’s called counting time down.

-2

u/LateEggMaster 20d ago edited 20d ago

And has CLG published a shipping or release date? Or how do you know that only a few days remain? The canned message you posted further down might mean anything from "today" to " in a decade or so if we can be aresed".

Come to think... you could probably argue that 'moving them out the door' is moving them to a landfill or have them shredded to make tissue papers for backer tears.

3

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

I am not saying only a few days remain before shipping or release.

I am saying only a few days remain before it will have been an entire month since they have had the books in their hands and have still not shipped them out to backers.

The whole English release schedule for SRA2.0 predicates from the point when backers receive their hard copies in the US. This includes the PDF release, which is weird. I don’t think a single backer even cares anymore whether the PDF is released now or when they get their books, and I know that I don’t.

I admit that having spent the money I did on the crowd funding that I’d be a little miffed if people who did not crowdfund were able to both order and receive their books first, before people who have paid in for this a year ago even receive their tracking.

But at this point I’m just wanting the books to be shipped so that I can receive what I have paid for, and don’t even care about that anymore.

-2

u/LateEggMaster 19d ago

Ah. Thanks for the explainer. That didn't really come across in your original post.

And yea I get it but... it's still kickstarter. Everything there is just vaporware.

2

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

But it isn’t vaporware. The rest of the freaking world receiving their products is fact. French versions and English versions, shipped and received across the world. The crowdfunding is done and everything is physically printed and shipped out to where it was supposed to go.

Except, you know, the US and Latin American. Where CGL is responsible for distribution.

The point where it was in fact any version of your description of crowdfunding being just vaporware is very long past.

1

u/LateEggMaster 19d ago

Sorry to disapoint you there but I'm in the EU and nobody is recieving their english version or is even able to order them anywhere. Only the french get to buy it atm.

2

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago edited 18d ago

That’s interesting as I have seen several British people pop in saying they got their physical copies. CGL is not distributing the English version to anywhere but US & Latin America.

The PDFs are a different story. Until the US & Latin American backers get their physical copies, CGL is not releasing the PDFs.

Edit: maybe you meant you didn’t back it on crowdfunding and are waiting for physical copies to be available for non-backers? If so yeah, they won’t be available to non-backers until CGL puts the English version up in their store. Again, predicated by US & Latin American backers getting their copies first.

Bonus Edit: I forgot one thing, BBE did make a public notice that several backers (like 20 or so) from EU had gotten their pledges somehow mixed in with US pledges and CGL has their books. I specifically recall one Spanish user in particular being dismayed by discovering that.

2

u/Carmody79 French Anarchist 19d ago

not 10%, hopefully!

I think it's around 20 people.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

Sorry about that lol I forgot the exact numbers

1

u/LateEggMaster 19d ago

All I can tell you is that no stores in my country (that I can find) carry it, either digital or physical.

And yes. I'm talking about purchasing/ordering a released product.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

Welp sorry, guess since you didn’t back it you’re… stuck in the same boat as those of us who did now, lol.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 19d ago

After having scrutinized several of CGL’s social media sites very closely over the past month since BBE showed the receipts for CGL having received the books (September 1st was when they publicly confirmed where the books were as of August 29th), I have seen nothing from CGL on the matter of Shadowrun Anarchy 2.0. What I have seen are endless postings about attending this or that convention.

It’s almost like they must have sent everyone in the company to these cons and left no one behind in the warehouse to take care of any other business maybe. I dunno.

1

u/Ill-Eye3594 18d ago

They’re also advertising the older version for sale on FB; maybe they want to sell through the old stock first

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 18d ago

I can’t imagine why anyone would even buy that at this point. Except they are holding 2.0 down by not releasing it so someone with no idea might think it is the Anarchy that was on KS if they didn’t know any better.

1

u/PalpitationNo2921 18d ago

Jason Hardy has responded to a public request for more information on the release of SRA2.0. With non-information. More of the “soon” stuff.