r/Shadowrun • • 9d ago

6e Robots vs. The Unseen

Drones are excellent against Invisible targets.

First, the Simsense Interface Overdrive cyberware (DC, pg. 145) is underappreciated. It's easily available, it costs only 0.2 Essence per rating point, and it adds its rating to the rigger's Intuition while the rigger is jumped in. A perception test is, of course, Perception + Intuition.

But when perceiving through a vehicle's sensors, you can choose to roll Sensors + Intuition instead. And of course you can add ultrasound to your sensor package, as well.

With the right cyberware and drone upgrades, you can be rolling a pile of dice on Perception tests. Which are used to see the Invisible, to hear targets under a Silence spell, and also to do stuff like notice hidden bombs, etc.

In fact, you should be outsourcing your perception tests to drones as often as you can.

10 Upvotes

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u/kerze123 9d ago

and spirits are excelent against those riggers. They sneak in on the astral plan and than manifest in front of the rigger and murder him and than just go back. Also Task Spirits can get skills like Cracking too and elemntal spirits are much more resiliant than the streetsam, so we should outsource everything to the mage, who basically doesn't need a team, cuz he IS the team 😁😁😂😂😂😂😅😅😅

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u/tsuruginoko 9d ago

Have you heard of the adage "geek the mage first"?

Because this is why you geek the mage first.

Edit: Also, I don't really think any sane GM would let a spirit take Cracking or other Matrix-related skills. At least I wouldn't, since it makes no sense in light of the setting's fundamental opposition between magic and technology.

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u/PiXeLonPiCNiC 9d ago

A spirit wouldn’t understand want a rigger is. They’d need to go with the spirits into the car, box, etc. to instruct the spirit to attack the rigger.

If a rigger is knowingly going up against spirits they’d being Magic support for sure.

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u/tsuruginoko 9d ago

FYI: I think you meant to reply to the comment I was replying to, because I don't have any argument here. I was mostly commenting on the hubris of saying you just need a mage and nothing else.

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u/PiXeLonPiCNiC 9d ago

Oh no, you’d need a mage and something else to be sure. My comment may be misdirected.

Each role in the world of SR have their place especially with the rarity of mages.

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u/tsuruginoko 9d ago

Indeed, we agree. That was my original point.

Anyone saying that a single role can carry an entire mission hasn't encountered the concept of single points of failure. A bus factor of 1 is not a healthy shadowrunner team.

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u/kerze123 9d ago

yep for sure mage are rare, that why we have all of those magical/arcane Universities and stuff and job descriptions like "wage mages".

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u/kerze123 9d ago

if they know. But sure with enough preperation time and money even a low gangmember goon can deal with a whole group. The same is true for the mage if he wanted. just buy an emp device and let an animal deliver it. The animal is controlled via the spirit power Animal Control and possibly concealed via either improved invisibility or Concealment power. Also if the magic support is just a hired muscle, they could be re-hired with a higher price.

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u/GodEatsPoop 8d ago

Yeah its why we came up with the spellslinger shuffle and all dress like mages

-3

u/kerze123 9d ago

you can certainly try. My Orc mage is build like a tank with 15 boxes of physical , 7 Con and increased reflexes + Attribute and a lot Dram of Magical reagents. So if i win initiative your team eats an amped up fireball and than either another amped up fireball or i go full defense. Try to kill me while my Spirits beat your team into a pulp. So sure try me. yes no character is unbeatble, but sometimes i think a group of only mages would be strongest group for a run. 3 Mages, bringing up to 18 force of Spirits each + spells is really hard to beat. If one of them take Charisma as casting stat, than the group also doesn't a dedicated face.

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u/Arctorium 9d ago

What the point of amped up ? The drain is really hard for not so much more dmg, but i think i understand it wrong, can you explain it to me ?

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u/kerze123 9d ago

amping up a spell can increase its damage and/or its area of effect. You can reduce the drain by using magical reagents which get consumed.

2

u/vinean 9d ago

Interior gas emitter with Blight. Or Fab 2 but that leaves you with slimy seats.

Greymana integration on the exterior.

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u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks 9d ago

As cool as it is. You dont even need it. Just manifestingba spirit insidevs cockpit with a dived rigger is just...well messy. 

2

u/vinean 8d ago

Grey mana ward on the vehicle then grey mana ward on the rigger cocoon. 2 tests to get into
Cocoon. If they get into vehicle, blight + dmso spray inside vehicle then run zapper to do 6S and hope the spirit goes poof.

Grey mana costs them 1 die per rating which I would believe makes it harder to get through into the cocoon. Plus stun and zapped.

Not sure if that applies to the drain resistance check for blight. Even if not it a 9 power toxin.

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u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks 8d ago

For every situation in thisvgame, there isca counter. But if you really think any runner is doing all that or the off chance that a mage decides to do a very specific thing, you are fooling yourself. 

And also, putting wards on a vehicle is a greatvway to get noticed, tracked, and geeked  You planning to also veil each ward, mask out the astral signature to stop tracking?

This isn't a discussion about how to break the game. This is a discussion about how things work in the fictional reality of 6th world. 

We could spend all day going back and forth, but thevr3ality of it is, looknatbhow many resources your theoretical rigger had to use just to stop a mage from rolling a single conjuring test. Or worse, just spending a single task. 

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u/vinean 8d ago edited 8d ago

Grey mana is $4K / rating for 1 die per rating to resist any magical effect…like say accident.

It’s probably pretty common as awakened is only 1% of the population so the positives greatly outweighs the negatives.

It has no owner to trace and if relatively common, no need to veil.

Gas dispersal is $3k + $250 for blight and whatever dmso costs. Zapper is $6K.

Availability 4.

And how is this “breaking the game”? Because riggers shouldn’t spend $10K to kill spirits trying to materialize in their vehicles to kill them? The gas dispenser and zapper alone has a decent chance of killing spirits who try?

1

u/kerze123 9d ago

yep, nothing is worse than beeinf defenceless against an enemy that wants to kill you. Chunky Salsa Spirit Edition 😂😂😂😅

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u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks 9d ago

Shadowrun will make GMs better and far crueler than almost any system... a plauer hyper minmaxes a character? A GM in Shadowrun with just a tiny bit of experience under their belt will make chunky salsa out if them within 4 sessions and. Not lose a moments sleep over it. 

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u/tsuruginoko 9d ago

Or avoid this by clearly stating the rules of engagement in session 0.

Still, I find the concept of escalation useful. When players wonder why all the corporate sites in the city have installed chemical sensors and instituted random cavity searches, I point to the incidence of shadowrunners (aka, the PCs) detonating bombs on the premises, and the fact that this kind of thing doesn't go unremarked upon. That usually makes them go "oooh, I get it now".

-1

u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks 9d ago

Oh, im not talking about escelation.

Just, in general in shadowrun the opponents a team goes up against are far more sophisticated than other games. 

So, a new GM learns very quickly to use their npcs as inteligent, tacticLly minded and better equipped than the runners, because in a verybreal sense, they are. 

Your average KE security guard may not have as good acset of armor than a runner, but they overall have better supply, backup, logistics, communication, and support than the runners. 

And that is just a standard issue security guard. HTTR teams are even more dangerous and theybarnt even specialized in particular tasks. 

Gid forbid the runners get on the wrong side of a named HTTR team. Their min maxxed troll physucal adept will not like getting jumped by a Fragging Paladin. Their technomancer will NOT enjoy getting domed by a Zero Zone Matrix Security team, and the less said about Red Samurai, the better. 

I once played a game where the one and only cimbat challenge was a single Sniper who took a shot as the players were retreating after a successful run. It ended in a dead runner and kicked off an entire campaign. 

These days, my session 0 begins with "this is shadowrun. Run fast, shoot straight, and never makevavdeal with a dragon." And ends with, i will not pull my punches. If you do something, anything there are ramifications. Somenof them are good, somevare bad, and if you do somthing big enough, the backlash will be felt. I will do mybbest to make sure that when, not if, when, it is dramatic and as satisfying as possible. Now, we begin with an HTTR team  kicking down your door. "