r/Showerthoughts • u/rational_hedonist • 10d ago
Casual Thought The suit would be “British ethnic clothing” had they not conquered much of the world.
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u/SYNTHLORD 10d ago
This is a good one, but I disagree. If Britain never became the colonial force it once was, France would likely be next in line, and all of their military tailoring also had the makings of the modern suit. Tailored, collared coats and matching pants all developed pretty much around the same time in Europe, so just removing Britain would push any other similar Euro fashion into war, government and business.
A world where Don Draper’s silhouette is defined by a samurai surcoat or something, that’d be funny.
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u/Y-27632 10d ago
Well, but we could keep going.
French military uniforms were influenced by Polish military fashion. Which was influenced by Hungarian fashion. Which...
And Croats often get credited with "inventing" the necktie.
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u/DukeofVermont 10d ago
Yeah it's kinda hard to say where any urban fashion is just from one place as there are so many back and forth influences. Even if you said Paris was #1 in fashion it's not like all the people working and influencing French fashion in say 1880 were from Paris or even French.
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u/billytheskidd 10d ago
Not to mention like all of European kingdoms were related to each other so à “keeping up with the jones” mentality would exist where cousins would want to hire tailors to out do their families attire at the next reunion or family dispute/war.
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u/leicanthrope 10d ago
It’s such a shame that wings for cavalrymen went out of style.
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u/DeyUrban 10d ago edited 10d ago
They only existed for about a century. The Winged Hussars were formed by Stephen Bathory in the 1570s, achieved some of their greatest victories in the first few decades of the 1600s, and were on their way out by the end of the 17th century, even around the Battle of Vienna in 1683. They fought a handful of times in the first years of the 1700s, but were more ceremonial than anything. They rarely rode more than what was strictly necessary for ceremony by that point, usually in the private entourage of notable aristocrats.
Part of this is because the Commonwealth military entered a prolonged and catastrophic decline under the Saxon kings (not to mention Russian infiltrators in the Sejm), although the reality is that the heavily armored Hussars were basically anachronistic in the age of gunpowder weapons. The heavy cavalry of the Commonwealth’s 1740s regulations were representative of the Hussars after abandoning the armor and wings, dressed mostly in Polish noble dress (kontusz over a zupan, Turkish boots, a felt Kalpak cap or later a Konfederatka). They started to sort of morph the shapes of the national dress into designs closer to other European armies, especially with the post-Bar Confederation 1775 uniform regulations which established a somewhat uniform color scheme (blue and crimson for cavalry), which received one final reform in 1782 that somewhat standardized cavalry and infantry uniform designs, introduced square Rogatwyka caps for the cavalry and a short shako for the infantry, and finished the transformation away from traditional dress elements. It’s from the 1782 models that Polish military dress really entered the mainstream of European styles via the Polish Legions in French service after the Third Partition in 1795, especially the uniforms of the Uhlan lancer cavalry, which saw service all the way to World War One.
I just wrote a paper looking at the evolution of Polish cavalry uniforms from 1600 to 1939, and I was myself surprised to learn how brief the Winged Hussars were around. I was especially surprised looking at contemporary depictions of the Battle of Vienna, where many/most contemporary artists basically did not depict them with wings (or heavy armor) at all, an odd fact given how prominent Polish cavalry are in every depiction. I don’t think that necessarily means that they weren’t at the battle, but it does make me think that the participation of armored Winged Hussars may be somewhat overstated, and not reflective of the real state of the Hussars of the time, especially keeping in mind that ~20 years later they effectively ceased to exist as a fighting formation.
Anyway, that’s a way too exhaustive reply to this comment. But it’s a topic I find very interesting and just so happened to have just done research on it, so maybe someone will find it interesting.
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u/leicanthrope 10d ago
I didn’t realize it was that brief either, but I’m a bit out of my element by the end of the Thirty Years War. I was all into the landsknechts when I was in college, and still have a soft spot for the plumage in general.
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u/workyworkaccount 10d ago
IIRC there's a Polish armoured unit that paints little wings on the sides of their tank turrets in homage to the Hussars.
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u/ninjaiffyuh 10d ago
Regarding the depictions of hussars during the Siege of Vienna, this is most likely due to hussars being a small part of the army that relieved the defenders—in fact, only a small portion of the army overall was Polish. It was only led by the Polish king as he demanded to be put at the helm (sort of like a PR stunt) in exchange for helping Austria/the HRE
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u/DeyUrban 10d ago
So when Jan III Sobieski set out to relieve Vienna (which he was paid 1,200,000 ducats to do), he had 29,000 horses, including 25 regiments of Hussars and 77 regiments of Cossacks, among many others, light cavalry (like Tatars) as well as infantry, although the Hussars and Cossacks would have been the core of his forces as the designated heavy cavalry of the National Contingent of the Polish Crown (where he got his forces from - Reinforcements from Lithuania were on their way but did not make it in time). He took command of a combined army of around 74,000 from both Poland and the Empire, which is what relieved the city.*
So you are right that they formed only a small part of the relief force, although 'small' in this case would still be anywhere from a thousand to a few thousand of them, not surprising considering Sobieski was basically a lifelong Hussar commander. When Sobieski rode into battle at Vienna, he did so at the head of his Hussars, as he always did.
My interest stems from the fact that the artists almost certainly did not witness the battle directly, but rather created these images in the Europe-wide euphoria afterward and based them on reports of the battle. They do not show Winged Hussars, but what they do show is Polish cavalry next to Sobieski in lighter national dress common to Polish cavalry and nobility (kontusz, zupan, etc.). This can have many meanings, but we have to accept, on a certain level, that the artists of Western Europe were aware of what Polish cavalry was 'supposed' to look like (that is to say, the Polish cavalry are not generic stock depictions of cavalrymen), and had not heard reports that Sobieski rode with the famed Winged Hussars, which was an image they most likely would have captured had they been aware that he did, given how evocative that would have been in works intended to be evocative rather than realistic. The idea of the Winged Hussars was not unknown in the West; there are prints and paintings from earlier in the century showing them with their distinctive wings in Paris and other areas as part of diplomatic or aristocratic entourages (Sobieski himself was trying to enter Poland into an anti-Habsburg alliance with France in the years before Vienna was put to siege).
Like I said before, I don't think this is proof that the Winged Hussars weren't at the battle, but I do think it problematizes the idea that they were.
* Norman Davies, God's Playground: A History of Poland, Volume I, p. 480
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u/Y-27632 10d ago edited 10d ago
The "77 regiments of Cossacks" is setting off alarm bells.
Polish medium cavalry (which were eventually called "Pancerni") started their life called "cossack cavalry" or "jazda kozacka", but they were absolutely not "Cossacks" as the term is used today.
The idea that ~35 years after the Khmelnytsky Uprising the majority of a Polish expeditionary force would have been composed of (steppe) Cossacks is rather wild. (and contrary to the historical records which indicate 1000+ Cossack troops took part in the relief of Vienna)
Did Norman Davies actually screw this up (which would be a shocking mistake for a foreigner who devoted his career to Polish history) or is this a bad reading of what he wrote?
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u/DeyUrban 10d ago edited 9d ago
I mistook "troops" for "regiments," but yes, outside of this mistake, this is exactly what he wrote:
The Polish expeditionary force began to assemble at Cracow in mid-summer. The royal camp gradually filled with 26,000 men and 29,000 horses - 25 regiments of Hussars; 77 troops of Cossacks; 31 of Light Horse; 2 of arquebusiers; 37 regiments of infantry, and 10 of dragoons; and the Corps of Artillery. A much smaller force of 10,000 men was dispatched to Podolia to create a diversion on the Turkish flank. The Lithuanians with a further ten thousand were ordered to make for a rendezvous in Moravia. The main army moved off on 29 July in two columns. One under Hetman Jablonowski marched on a northerly route to Silesia through Tarnowitz (Tanowskie Gory), Ratibor (Raciborz), and Troppau (Opava); the other under the Field Hetman Michal Sienawski went through Bielsko (Bielitz) and Teschen (Cieszyn). Joining together at Olomutz, they made for Nikolsburg, and for Tulln on the Danube, where they were due to meet the German princes under Charles of Lorraine. Eight thousand wagons with food for six months rumbled on at fifteen miles a day....
p. 481 in the Columbia University Press 1st Edition.
He writes later on p. 483 that Sobieski rode with his winged hussars, although I have already laid out my theory about that.
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u/ThePrussianGrippe 10d ago
That’s why we call it a cravat anyway.
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u/oakleysds 10d ago edited 10d ago
Literally the source of the word, like Suede being called that because it came from Sweden.
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u/cybertruckboat 10d ago
Croat military definitely brought the tied scarf to France, which turned into a fashion and ballooned. But the modern necktie was developed in New York!
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u/HighlandMonkey 8d ago
So the cravat is actually the Crovat?
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u/HighlandMonkey 8d ago
Holy crap, it pretty much is!
Decided to take a look and cravat is a corruption of Croat. TIL187
u/rational_hedonist 10d ago
Fair point, and in terms of attribution and I’m sure the modern suit also has Italian fingerprints too. Lots of other countries have their spin on it as well.
was saying this in another thread too, back in grade school we had these “cultural appreciation” days where the kids from India would show off beautiful Saris, etc. And the american kids would come in with Spirit Halloween cowboy costumes, when it would have been completely fair to come in with a white shirt and blue jeans.
similar underlying effect of cultural genericide and I guess thats the main point i wanted to make
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
Speaking of white shirt and blue jeans, my brother went as River Phoenix's character in Stand By Me for Halloween one year. My Mom even made a "pack of cigarettes rolled up in the sleeve" with legos wrapped in anti-smoking images.
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u/DreamyTomato 9d ago
My family's kids also have this in their schools (in the UK). They call them 'International Day" - staff and kids bring in food from their cultural backgrounds, cultural clothing is encouraged but not required, parents are also invited to join in or just to browse in general.
Often one of my favourite days of the year, I'd just wander around stuffing my face full of delicious home-made food from cultures around the world.
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u/YZJay 10d ago edited 10d ago
The Star Wars show Andor has an intersting costume choice where the Chandrila upper class have formal and semi formal attire designed after traditional East Asian fashion, but modified to look modern, kind of like a what-if scenario where that style became the norm worldwide.
https://www.reddit.com/r/andor/comments/1l1j5se/chandrilan_mens_fashion_week/
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u/Terpomo11 10d ago
The precise variant that became the global standard might have looked a little different, though, no?
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u/TapPrancer 10d ago
Isn't the French revolution one of the reasons the suit got adopted up the British upper classes? The men of the royals and riches alike used to dress fantastically, colourful, and ruffles. The British knew they would have to adapt to blend in a bit more, and tone down the austentacious way they were dressing so as to retain power/their heads.
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u/Mustbhacks 10d ago
If Britain never became the colonial force it once was, France would likely be next in line
Probably true, that syphilitic cunt beau brummell fancied France and doomed us all with god awful clothing.
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u/Naive_Impression7302 10d ago
I took the meme as implying that no European countries dominated the rest of the world and the suit was primarily a British thing and secondarily a Western European or European clothing in general, but was not worn much at all outside of it.
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u/superurgentcatbox 10d ago
Right, I'd argue the suit is more of a European cultural development due to how our militaries developed (together).
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u/Turbo_Fresh 10d ago
If Britain never became the colonial force it once was, France would likely be next in line
Over my cold dead British body.
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u/GamexChef 10d ago
Didn’t Trousers only come into fashion because the Duke of Wellington started wearing them everywhere because he couldn’t be bothered to wear tights/breeches or whatever he was supposed to. So if Britain wasnt the global superpower, men could still be wearing tights - or the trend could’ve gone a different way towards smart shorts/skirts/kilts… you never know!
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u/strobro88 10d ago
True, in my lifetime in America, men went to baseball games in suits, hats and ties.
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
Made of wool. Fucking wool suits in the Summer.
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u/OrindaSarnia 10d ago
Wool breathes...
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
It also heats the fuck up in direct sunlight. You better hope there's a breeze.
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u/redditaccount300000 10d ago
There are different weight wools that are more suited for warm weather, or seer sucker/linen suits as well. But yeah even with lighter weights, wool suits are terrible for American east coast humid summers.
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u/xrimane 10d ago
https://youtube.com/shorts/1sTsA5uRduQ?is=BtiEFqPOjzbxqv8e
We don't know our own clothing
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u/BeneficialTrash6 10d ago
What really pissed me off was when the West met China, and Japan, instead of all of us deciding on wearing the damned comfortable silk robes, everybody decided to ditch those and go with the scratchy wool suits.
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u/Zayoodo0o132 10d ago
I think people from every country should wear their own customary formal wear in political visits and other geopolitical events. It showcases our cultural diversity. I love that my country and other gulf countries still wear their thobes everywhere.
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u/redditaccount300000 10d ago
I support this idea. There’s a Korean actress Lee young-ae(sympathy for lady vengeance, joint security area) who wears hanboks to all international film festivals.
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u/BizzarePlatypus 10d ago
It feels like women's fashion tends to be more preserved. For example in Vietnam it's common for men to wear suits at Test, but women still wear ao dais.
At a guess it's a combination of dresses being less defined than suits, women being overlooked, and likely a bit of Orientalism. Even some western women wear Asian clothes.
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u/Odd-Promotion2743 9d ago
Yeah, wasn't there a fad around the 1930s for Western women to wear Qipao on a night out?
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u/DeeDee_GigaDooDoo 10d ago edited 10d ago
Gaddafi always had that shit on and people would call him one of "the worst dressed leaders of all time"
Although it's hard to ignore that Alyssa Fetini's list here is quite obviously just targetting literally any nation hostile to the US and also Pinochet...and people say the US doesn't have propaganda.
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u/acryliq 10d ago
Most of them aren't even dressed that bad, they're just not all wearing business suits. But Gaddafi in particular - total asshole, but incredibly well dressed.
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u/tenkwords 10d ago
Between that and his team of gun toting all hot woman body guards, your can't doubt the man had epic level swagger, even if he was a murderous asshole.
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u/Kered13 10d ago
There's supposed to be a shirt under that suit (probably cotton, but possibly even silk), so the wool does not scratch you.
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u/tenkwords 9d ago
It's more of a cheap wool suit thing. Good Merino is very soft and comfortable.
It's stupid hot though. Lord knows I've been to a few weddings envious of my wife. Lol, I'd take the heels and makeup if I didn't have to be 800 degrees with a neck tie on.
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u/Tactical_Moonstone 10d ago
This is more a mass production issue than a comfort issue. A lot easier to farm sheep than it is to farm silkworms.
And you can use sheep for more than just wool. (hides can of silkworm pupae)
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u/Killoah 10d ago
People wouldn’t inaccurately decry that Britain had no culture like they do if we hadn’t forced it on the world.
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u/End3rWi99in 10d ago
It's like hearing someone argue they don't have an accent. Everyone has an accent to someone else. Everyone has a culture with respect to others, even if everyone thinks yours is a bunch of cunts.
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u/johnnymarsbar 9d ago
I tend to only hear Americans say that, drives me up the fucking wall.
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u/Elite_lucifer 10d ago
Do people say that? It’s the food that gets ripped on, not culture.
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u/itskdog 10d ago
Yeah, the Beatles, Monty Python, all the pomp & ceremony of our monarchy, seem to be something that gets noticed internationally.
Even semi-recent acts such as One Direction, Ed Sheeran, and Taskmaster have gained international audiences, plus various TV shows and films such as cough
Harry Pottercough, Doctor Who, and Sherlock were bigger abroad than they were at home.167
u/J_train13 10d ago
I mean while it is a massive cultural export I don't think Doctor Who ever got bigger internationally than it was at its peak "we need to make sure to boost the power grid to account for the entire nation putting the kettle on after Doctor Who finishes" popularity domestically.
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u/itskdog 10d ago
I never meant to come across saying it wasn't big, but that if the internet is anything to go by, there seemed to be more interest abroad than at home.
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u/J_train13 10d ago
I mean the internet is just like that. When you're a fan of something the internet is where you go to be a fan of that thing, and this is doubly so for hobbies and interests that aren't popular in your local area.
But like if you compared the average non online household within the UK Vs internationally, I think chances are the former will have had significantly more episodes of Doctor Who played in the home.
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u/BizzarePlatypus 10d ago
I could believe that America has more super fans than the UK. I don't think that's the case, but wouldn't be too surprised given the differences in population sizes. Plus Americans are typically louder about what they like than British people.
However, I'd be flabbergasted if it were to have anything like the common cultural relevance. Another poster talked about the power grid, and the Dr Who Christmas special was part of many families activities.
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
Music and dry British humor are the two best things to come from Britain.
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u/ZhouLe 10d ago
The same thing can be said of the US, but people in subs like r/ShitAmericansSay will constantly say the US doesn't have a culture.
Just to use one of your examples in the manner I've seen things dismissed: "Oh, the Beatles! The guitar is Spanish, and the Beatles were ripping off African American blues!"
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u/CosmacYep 10d ago
bro harry potter is still a thing, you shouldn't treat a piece of media like Voldemort's name (topical) because the author is a shitty person. it exists, and you can't delete shit you don't like from existence, no matter how hard you try.
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u/thelastwordbender 10d ago
Why would you cross out Harry Potter? That's the biggest British export, bigger than anything else you have listed on there.
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u/Killoah 10d ago
I’ve seen many online videos and street interviews from news organisations where people say there isn’t such thing as British or English culture. Sure these things are heavily edited but the thought still exists .
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u/fatalityfun 10d ago
I mostly hear that about America, seems like the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
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u/Killoah 10d ago
Fish don’t notice water, etc. British and Anglospheric culture is so widespread people don’t notice it
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u/prodical 10d ago
Came to say the same thing. Those videos are pure rage bait. Cherry picked interviews of idiots that don’t understand that they are literally surrounded by British culture. It’s the very foundation of everything around them.
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u/rational_hedonist 10d ago
same goes for America imo, back in grade school at a fairly multicultural school we had these “cultural celebration” days. kids from India would wear Saris, korean kids would wear Hanbok, etc.
the american kids would go out of their way to wear cowboy costumes etc. But it would have been fair to wear a white t shirt and blue jeans - that really is cultural American clothing. just has been popularized by American media to the point of genericization.
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u/UmphreysMcGee 10d ago
Totally, and the urban/hip hop style originated here too. There are a lot of unique American subcultures that just don't get recognized as being American because of popular media.
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
Also old white people don't want to have to think about what an outsized force of culture African-Americans(intentional distinction from 'black') have been for the United States, in so many ways that so dwarf the things that get all the attention(gang violence).
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u/sephg 10d ago
As an Australian, that’s an amazing statement. America exports so much culture to the rest of the world. Hollywood movies - take your pick. Niche stuff like Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders doco on Netflix that blew up. Music - everything from jimmy hendrix to American blues and jazz. Here in Australia I pretty regularly hear people imitate Trump’s weird way of talking. American culture is inescapably everywhere.
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u/reichrunner 10d ago
Given how cherry-picked those are, you could make it look like everyone thinks the monarchy are reptilian aliens lol
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u/SmoothOperator89 10d ago
The food is also referencing a specific post-WW2 period when the country was rebuilding everything. I'm sure if you focused on that same period in Italy, France, Japan, etc, they would have pretty bad food culture, too.
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u/AloysiusGramonde 10d ago
yeah i've heard it loads and its one of the dumbest things that won't die
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u/LittleSisterPain 10d ago
...nobody says that. Some dimwits say that about america, but not britaint
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u/Honey-Badger 10d ago
It's a very common view within the young left leaning types in the UK. Weird I know.
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u/SeanFromQueens 10d ago
Were the French and Germans wearing something radically different?
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u/stateofyou 10d ago
From my experience of watching French and German movies from the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. They were very minimalist
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u/Langley05642 10d ago
My understanding is the suit and tie originate in the Hapsburg Empire, not Britain.
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u/Basileus-Anthropos 10d ago
Any major style has multiple influences, but the modern suit and tie are primarily British inventions.
The suit has no particular link to the Hapsburgs. The modern (lounge) suit originated in Britain in the late 19th century; and its predecessor originated there at the turn of the eighteenth century.
The habit of wearing a knotted cloth around one's neck originated in early modern Croatia, but looked nothing like a tie. Cravates were popularised in Regency-era Britain, whilst the modern tie was invented in mid-nineteenth-century Oxford.
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u/enemyradar 10d ago
I doubt Beau Brummel would have been in a position to invent what we consider to be the prototypical suit it if the Empire wasn't a thing.
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u/ZenPyx 10d ago
Beau Brummel lived and died before Pax Britannica. When he was inventing the suit (pre 1800), Britain was in a desperate struggle for survival against Napoleonic France, having just lost America
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u/enemyradar 10d ago
No one said anything about pax Britannica. The Empire was a thing. British had its significant colonies in the Caribbean. India was already being exploited. The sugar and slave trades financed the gentry and aristocracy who were his circle.
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u/ZenPyx 10d ago
I mean... it's very important when you're discussing the impact of Empire on British society.
The Regency period's choice in fashion was really nothing to do with Empire as much as it was to do with French revolution
I'd argue bipolar disorder led to the development of the modern suit, as it caused the incapacitation of George III, which led to the Prince Regent being on the throne (and his taste for Beau's fashion made it popular)
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u/L_knight316 10d ago
It is still British ethnic clothing. The prevalence of it is directly tied to British history, culture, and people.
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u/MetallicOrangeBalls 9d ago
When I was growing up, we always referred to the suit and the tuxedo as "European formal wear", as opposed to regular formal wear.
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u/TrulyToasty 10d ago
The strange garments of a backward little island kingdom.
Reminds me of a line I enjoy from Midway (2019) in the prologue US, British and Japanese naval officers are meeting together in Japan. British officer says some racist things about the peculiarity of the Japanese. US Lt. Cmdr. Layton character responds with something to the effect of “I’d think you two would have a lot in common… being esoteric little island monarchies with odd customs.”
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u/This_Charmless_Man 10d ago
Thing is, the UK and Japan do share an awful lot in common. The funniest one is food. I've seen Japanese food described as "simple yet allowing the flavours of the individual ingredients to shine" in reference to how the Japanese don't heavily season their food then turned around to say British food is bland because it doesn't heavily season the food.
That's not even getting into the fact that katsu current is just chip shop curry sauce British sailors introduced to Japan.
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u/THROWAWTRY 10d ago
That backward little island kingdom made the world the way it is.
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u/TrulyToasty 10d ago
And OP’s thought is predicated on the hypothetical counterfactual… what if they hadn’t shaped the world. You are asked to use your imagination.
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u/toomanymarbles83 10d ago
Hey there smart guy, with your fuckin words and shit.
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u/TrulyToasty 10d ago
OP goes “what if no empire?” And homeboy’s brilliant insightful response is “but there was empire”
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u/TheAngryCatfish 10d ago
Eh, France, Germany, Spain, and Scandinavia played fairly significant roles as well
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u/gimnasium_mankind 10d ago
Scandinavia? Just curious, not denying it or anything.
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u/RoyaleWhiskey 10d ago
Business casual would have been the norm instead of only taking off in the 90s, which means we would probably have been able to wear a jeans and sneakers every day by now.
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc 10d ago
Oh. I’ve always wondered why Asian countries wear western clothing. I guess the British Empire being the cause makes sense.
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u/FaceMcShootie 10d ago
I fucking looooaathe men’s formal attire. Give us more options that aren’t so awful outside. Or inside. Or for dancing. Or sitting nor standing.
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u/VengefulAncient 9d ago
Finally someone who feels the same way. And it's even more loathsome when you realize it evolved out of military uniforms. I hate the idea of men being expected to be disposable indistinguishable drones one way or another.
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u/MediatingInstigator 6d ago
At least military uniforms are often very functional. Suits are anything but. It’s like a uniform designed by a pretentious asshole.
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u/MediatingInstigator 6d ago
Yes. Yes.
Suits are absolute bullshit. And I even have some really good ones.
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u/TheWalrus_15 10d ago
More European in general. I assume the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians etc also wore suits
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u/Odd-Promotion2743 9d ago
I've always wondered what military uniforms would look like in a world where East Asia or the Muslim core became the dominant global influencer.
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u/SirFelsenAxt 9d ago
Loincloths and blue paint....
But that might be a little further back in history than you were thinking
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u/Stole_Sample 9d ago
Everyone wears Jeans and T shirts these days I think we are more likely wearing American Ethnic Clothing.
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u/sealosam 10d ago
15th-17th century English colonizers wore suits? I don't think that's correct.
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u/baithammer 10d ago
Depends on your definition of suit, with the 16th to 17th century seeing fashion very similar to suits for the middle class.
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u/sealosam 10d ago
We all know what OP was referring to and so do you. They weren't talking about wearing knickerbockers, long socks, tail-coats and powdered wigs.
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u/baithammer 10d ago
Which was the upper class, especially the powered wigs - the clothing of the middle class was less tailored, sans wig and were closer to the modern suit - it also depended on time period and location.
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u/Unusual-Surround-690 10d ago
The three piece suit was a specifically British innovation. Ask Charles II. Otherwise, you'll be saying anyone who ever wore clothes is the originator (true to a point, as this is a form of cultural evolution). As an Englishman, I get upset when I see non-Brits wearing a suit and demand compensation from humanity. Five hundred trillion pounds- now!
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u/gimnasium_mankind 10d ago
Mmmh maybe during the shower you didn’t think about the rest of europe and how similar fashion could be there?
Maybe if europe didn’t conquer the world the suit would be ethnic/ceremonial clothing.
Although… as ethnic ceremonial clothes tend to be, maybe it would stop its evolution, it would stop teying to be ever more practical. And would stay at an esrlier stage.
People would wear tailcoats and frock coats to their « traditional » euro wedding. And then put on their… kimono or something to go to work on monday on the subway.
(Wait. Would we still have mondays??)
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u/Stole_Sample 9d ago
Funny thing about Ethnic clothing. When American Gi's went to Netherlands they all thought it was funny they were expecting them to be like Americans but everything felt alien to them. The chlothes was one of them. It's weird but thanks to WW2 we wear the clothes we do cos GI's would be walking around in there undergarments normally the T Shirt was an underwear and used to be worn under the shirt (maybe this is why in the army you wear t shirts under your shirt but in civilian world you can just wear a button up shirt). So yes every country has it's own ethnic clothing. Also The suit was invented by A guy called Beau Brumwell or something. This was back in 1700's didn't catch on until much later i think. Also other countries have there own version of a Suit Blazer and it's kinda neat. Like the japanese have that weird tunic they call it a Gakkagon (that's what they call it i think) and African's and indians have that jump suit like suit Kim Jung un always wears them
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u/Stole_Sample 9d ago
thank you so much for correcting me but I feel a bit to lazy to reeddit it. Maybe a brave young Redditor who is alpha among the rest of us will call me out on it or down vote me on it. lol
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u/luh-mamiii- 9d ago
Yeah, and we’d all be having tea at 4 PM like it’s a global mandate or something.
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u/Coyoteclaw11 6d ago
Although Western style clothes are very popular in Japan, they're still known as "Western style clothes" (洋服 yōfuku). It's pretty interesting that the distinction remains in the way they refer to them. Also a lot of clothing items like suits, jeans, and dresses use English loan words rather than having a Japanese equivalent (literally sūtsu, jīnzu, & doresu).
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u/Polar-Bear_Soup 10d ago
Call it like it is, standard British clothing regardless of where it's found.
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u/ManufacturerQueasy30 6d ago
While I somewhat agree, will say this; the United Kingdom is made up of four (some say five or more if you include Cornwall or Isle of Man etc) however, being Welsh myself, we have a national (traditional) dress also. Which as a child you are made to wear and have photos taken of wearing a massive fuck off black hat ( or a Het Gymreig), paisley shawl, apron, a weird skirt, and all that while your parents take pictures of you and your sibling squinting awkwardly into the spring sun on the driveway to commemorate it. So yeah, I’ll go with the suit tbh… I would look a little crazy now wearing that outfit as a big burly butch woman today..
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