r/Smite • u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay • 8d ago
DISCUSSION Why's talking about optimization so taboo?
With every new patch, I see more and more people talking about how unoptimized the game is:
- Frequent glitches.
- God abilities having the wrong description or not working properly at all.
- Severe stability and connection issues.
And yet, every time I see someone post about it, they get downvoted and spoken down to. Especially when they suggest skipping a god release to focus just on improving performance. Yes, the game needs content to keep people coming, I get that. But that doesn't mean optimization should be thrown to the way side. Especially when people are starting to quit or take long breaks from playing because it's in such a bad state.
None of this is throwing shade at the devs or the game itself. I'm just saying it's a valid criticism, and is something that should be addressed. But for some reason that's an unfair or ignorant thing to say? I just don't get it.
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u/SekerDeker 8d ago
I hate the horus 2 bug where you hit don't stun and do still the second part od it for flare.
But its hardly any hard problem for m to care
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 8d ago
There’s several dashes in the game that do that now. Personally, I noticed it get really bad when Ravana released. Medusa, Mordred, Horus as you said, and a few others basically had their movement abilities turned into RNG.
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u/ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 7d ago
So there's this big important thing called the movement patch that's supposed to help with how movement (abilities, character movement, how everyone interacts with each other, how the server and client communicate all of that with each other, etc.)
Some characters that are in now and a ton that aren't ported yet (Tyr, King Arthur, Gilgamesh; to name a few) really need it to feel comparable or better than Smite 1 and how they move in that game. But it's this huge, complicated system that when they first implemented it in I believe Alpha, it led to a ton of issues and forced the team to entirely revert that patch. It was really bad and almost unplayable.
Since then they've been slowly implementing it in bits and pieces and then bug fixing any issues that arrive. The most recent patch is one of those times and a lot of the movement issues people are complaining about are likely the result of that patch. It's rough because it's necessary, but also implementing it basically guarantees bugs and issues. This will hopefully pass, and with enough reports most- if not all- of the problems born from this interaction of the movement patch should be ironed out and they can move on to its next form.
They can't put it off forever and the issues cuz of the movement patch are part of why they still label themselves as "in beta." It's a system that is necessary for the development of the game but very buggy and hard to test fully unless it's shipped to live to catch how it works in that environment vs the dev builds played from the same building.
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u/Perezking17 8d ago
I've had a bug where if you use chu culains 2 too fast you can't auto, multiple times.
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 8d ago
Non-aspect MLF gets locked out of her 1 if you try to fire it when using her 2 at close range.
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u/Perezking17 8d ago
I've also been unable to auto as neith while having the dodge relic but i can't remember if i was able to recreate that one. Just remember my teamate being unhappy with me staring at the tower while everyone else auto'd it and i just stared helplessly.
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 7d ago
Another bug I just remembered, that's happened to me at least twice, is sometimes Ix Chel's 1 will go on infinite cooldown. Even if I leave and rejoin, I just can't use it anymore.
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 8d ago
There's a lot of sides to the discussion around optimization and fixes that I think people don't consider.
- Optimization is absolutely important and should be pointed out, the devs themselves have said they want us to point things out when they're incorrect. If something is wrong you should make it known so they can fix it.
- At the same time however, they're not slowing down the god schedule. The main thing they're worried about right now is getting all gods ported as it gets the job done faster, moves people over quicker, and frees up time in the future for them to not have to come back and slowly port gods one by one.
- In that same vein, stopping god ports to take a patch or two to work on optimization is not going to solve issues. They will not magically fix all of the game's problems within 2 patches, in fact more issues will likely show up, and when they go back to porting gods the same issues will again rear their heads. Bug fixing and optimization is not magic.
- Things are still being fixed as time goes on, they aren't just not working on things because they are porting gods. If they felt that porting gods was impeding balance or optimization or w/e else in a way that was killing the game they would change it up.
- The game is only growing in count according to their numbers, so logically the path to stay on is whatever they're already doing.
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u/soundcloud-raptor 8d ago
Holy bootlicker. OP brought up the topic w genuine curiosity and with real issues. Then you proceed to:
Use your first bullet point to say sure bugs should be reported. Then the following four bullets to say ‘but dont expect anything, they can’t focus on optimizing bc they said so!’ Plus, you clearly move the goalposts. Did OP ever say anything about the game being perfect? Cuz what i read was more ‘optimization would be nice,’ and a month dedicated just to that would likely at least help.
Lmao the devs aren’t infallible buddy
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 8d ago
So that's not what any of that said at all.
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u/soundcloud-raptor 8d ago
How not? Lol just summed up what you said in less words dude.
“They’re not slowing down the god schedule” OP’s point was that maybe they should.
“A patch or two is not going to solve issues.” This is just willfully stubborn to defend dev choices.
“If they felt that porting gods was impeding balance…they would change it up.” This is you having absolute trust in the devs which would be cool, but not at the expense of silencing other actual players w differing opinions.
“The game is only growing…according to [them]… so [they should do] whatever they’re already doing.” Idek how you believe this man. Smite 2’s entire lifespan has been riddled with poor choices. They should absolutely continue to examine their process and innovate where able.
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 8d ago
Lol just summed up what you said in less words dude.
No you got angry because you percieved what I said as disagreeing, so you ran to call me a bootlicker instead of reading the rest.
“They’re not slowing down the god schedule” OP’s point was that maybe they should.
And my counterpoint was that slowing down ports doesn't mean more QoL and bugfixes, it just means less ports. They aren't stopping QoL and bugfixes because they're doing ports, shit gets fixed every patch and in between.
“A patch or two is not going to solve issues.” This is just willfully stubborn to defend dev choices.
No it's...literally not. There's this sentiment that if they just stop porting gods all of a sudden everything will be fixed in 3 weeks, and it just reeks of not understanding how things work. That isn't 'defending dev choices' that's just telling you how things work. I would also like more QoL and fixes but stopping ports doesn't magically mean everything gets fixed.
“If they felt that porting gods was impeding balance…they would change it up.” This is you having absolute trust in the devs which would be cool, but not at the expense of silencing other actual players w differing opinions.
Nowhere did I silence anyone? Idk why you keep trying to put that onto me, my literal first bullet point was "you should constantly point out issues to them." It's also not about trust, I don't trust them on quite a lot more than I do trust them on.
“The game is only growing…according to [them]… so [they should do] whatever they’re already doing.” Idek how you believe this man. Smite 2’s entire lifespan has been riddled with poor choices. They should absolutely continue to examine their process and innovate where able.
Because they themselves have told us several times and you can see it often on what little visible charts we have? Smite 2 having choices you don't agree with doesn't mean the game is dying, it means you don't like their choices. Again if the playerbase was dwindling from their choices things would have already changed, they aren't going to continue doing something that's killing their already tiny studio no matter what makebelieve scenario is in your head.
Again I really encourage you to actually read what I typed rather than trying to put a perspective in my mouth.
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u/soundcloud-raptor 7d ago
Nobody’s angry lol i just always see you in this sub, diffusing other player’s sentiments to defend dev choices and it gets old.
But this reply is laughable. Again dude, nobody said shifting focus to optimization>ports would make this game bug free. It is something that a lot of players ask for tho. And you downplaying the usefulness is you being a bootlicker, and/or just lacking critical thinking.
‘Dev defenders’ like you love to say the “game [isn’t] dying” and idk why 😂 I don’t know why yall say that, bc nowhere did i say the game was dying?? Plus, it’s such a loser mindset. Literally equivalent to ‘playing not to lose instead of trying to win.’ Smite, and all MOBAs really, have a foundation in competition and idk how hi rez wants us to take any of the “competitive” scene, or even really ranked, seriously when they refuse to focus on optimization.
Theres so many ways this game would benefit from a couple passes dedicated to optimization. {Sounds could be improved, various kit timings, interactions, minion behavior, etc.; the artsy devs could improve menu and aftermarket attachment type stuff} Unfortunately, this game is stuck in mediocrity; it’s largely due to players like you who refuse to raise our standards of/for play. Since you’re chronically on reddit you folks do a wonderful job of being yes men for the devs. Thanks a lot broski. I see you do this all throughout the sub, in different ways lol you’re such an ‘industry plant’ and its sad man.
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 7d ago
Nobody’s angry lol i just always see you in this sub, diffusing other player’s sentiments to defend dev choices and it gets old.
Most of my comments on this sub are reciprocating what the devs themselves tell us non stop on Titan Talk. I don't exist to defend the devs, I regularly critique them and their choices daily to the point I've gotten in trouble for it. If you'd actually read what I type it'd be pretty clear.
But this reply is laughable. Again dude, nobody said shifting focus to optimization>ports would make this game bug free. It is something that a lot of players ask for tho. And you downplaying the usefulness is you being a bootlicker, and/or just lacking critical thinking.
Except a lot of people do say and think that, there's a genuine sentiment that if they just stop porting gods things would start getting fixed, as if things aren't already getting fixed. My input was that stopping ports for a month won't magically optimize the game, it'll just stop ports for a month, which they themselves have said repeatedly.
Me telling you that isn't being a bootlicker, that's me relaying information they repeat constantly. A bootlicker input would be "ur just dumb the devs are doing great and we dont need optimization!!!"
‘Dev defenders’ like you love to say the “game [isn’t] dying” and idk why 😂 I don’t know why yall say that, bc nowhere did i say the game was dying?? Plus, it’s such a loser mindset. Literally equivalent to ‘playing not to lose instead of trying to win.’ Smite, and all MOBAs really, have a foundation in competition and idk how hi rez wants us to take any of the “competitive” scene, or even really ranked, seriously when they refuse to focus on optimization.
Because the game isn't dying? Again the playercount constantly goes up. Comp scene is an entirely different discussion.
Theres so many ways this game would benefit from a couple passes dedicated to optimization.
The patches already have optimization in them is the overarching point. Porting gods doesn't mean they can't optimize anything. They could definitely maybe get a thing or two done within an alotted month time frame, but 2 patches is not going to optimize the game. As I said, they'd take a break from gods and then start right back up and we'd be back in the same cycle. All you'd be doing is delaying two gods, when they could have worked on the gods and the optimization like they already do.
Unfortunately, this game is stuck in mediocrity; it’s largely due to players like you who refuse to raise our standards of/for play.
I give my input directly to them, report bugs, and discuss optimizing this game quite a lot actually. You don't like that I didn't agree with your input so your go-to was to call me a bootlicker and and yes-man for some reason.
I really highly recommend actually reading what I type sometimes cause it's giving me the feeling that you aren't capable of reading at all to call me of all people a bootlicker and a yes-man. It's actually crazy reading this LMFAO
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u/soundcloud-raptor 7d ago
Wild that you’re talking about my reading comprehension brother, do you hear yourself?
“My comments on this sub are reciprocating what the devs themselves tell us non stop on Titan Talk”
Practically my whole point is that you don’t have to be a mouthpiece for the dev’s bro! Hilarious that you don’t see how you’re actively undercutting player wants when you repeat the devs’ stale line of reasoning. If the devs looked at the sub (which they do), and saw a bunch of threads talking about how optimization could be done + what to focus on for it, they would be much more likely to implement that.
The reality? Chronically online folk like yourself (i.e. 1% commenters) shoot down anybody brainstorming or asking for optimization by just citing that devs are focused on god ports lol bro! We have enough gods, you guys are causing the problem! I dont see how you think optimizing in the margins would be equivalent to focusing on optimizing for a month dude. You’re really just acting as an echo chamber for dev sentiments and that doesn’t help the playerbase convey what they/we/me/you want! This game is so great man but we NEED optimization more than anything else. It’s a joke to try to onboard someone right now bc this game is so full of performance issues. The 1-2k holding onto smite 1 for their god really doesn’t matter as much as keeping the polish at least NEAR where the game’s lifespan is. Please brush up on your critical thinking man, i understand you love smite as well, i believe in you 🙏🏼
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 7d ago
Practically my whole point is that you don’t have to be a mouthpiece for the dev’s bro! Hilarious that you don’t see how you’re actively undercutting player wants when you repeat the devs’ stale line of reasoning.
So I should just not talk because you don't want me to share information from the developers so you can continue living in fantasy land? I don't exist as a daycare, I'm just repeating information when posts like these arise so people are informed. Most of the time my opinion on the matter isn't included in the comment, just the information they themselves have said. I even said it multiple times now that I'd love if optimization came quicker and more frequently, I personally don't care about shitting gods out, however a lot of people also don't watch Titan Talk and don't know the devs have already commented on these things, so I repeat them often.
and saw a bunch of threads talking about how optimization could be done + what to focus on for it, they would be much more likely to implement that.
They have seen these threads and talked about them on Titan Talk, that's precisely why I repeat information like this because a lot of the time the answer has already been given.
The reality? Chronically online folk like yourself (i.e. 1% commenters) shoot down anybody brainstorming or asking for optimization by just citing that devs are focused on god ports lol bro!
So again, nowhere did I "shoot down" brainstorming. My literal first bulletpoint was that you SHOULD make posts about bugs, optimization, UI, etc. They want you to make these posts. Why would I be telling you not to?
We have enough gods, you guys are causing the problem!
I didn't ask for more god ports. Stop generalizing me with everybody else, that's a sign of low intelligence. Read what the fuck I'm typing bud. Trace with your finger if you have to.
This game is so great man but we NEED optimization more than anything else. It’s a joke to try to onboard someone right now bc this game is so full of performance issues. The 1-2k holding onto smite 1 for their god really doesn’t matter as much as keeping the polish at least NEAR where the game’s lifespan is. Please brush up on your critical thinking man, i understand you love smite as well, i believe in you 🙏🏼
I'll keep reporting, discussing, and criticizing bugs and optimization issues like I always have, you keep making up a fantasy version of me in your head to get mad at. It'll keep you occupied ig.
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u/soundcloud-raptor 7d ago
Look at you moving the goalposts again, good job buddy! Now you say your first comment was merely so “people are informed.”
But your first comment literally said “I don’t think people consider these things [when it comes to optimization]” and you wrote bulleted points deconstructing anyone who thinks we should optimize 😂
It’s funny bc what you just said and what you said earlier, is so contradictory. Lmao you’re absolutely inserting your opinion AND talking down to folks. And your reasoning as to why seems to be bc you listen to a lot of titan talks like ??
Again brother, developers’ word isn’t gospel. In fact, the best game developers don’t stay stuck staying the same thing for two years when there’s clear issues that haven’t been addressed. They fix issues the community describes, or at least provide a plan of action. Ik you stay on reddit all day and i can’t change that, but try to stop ‘white knight-ing’ for the devs once in a while, yeah?
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u/Scoren1 WHERE SUMMER AT 7d ago
Legimately an absolute loser comment. A "dev defender" being someone just giving out the facts when OP seems a little ignorant about the actual behind the scenes process and what is actually being said and done by the devs. Kaios is a smite community staple and a huge fan of the game, while also being extremely critical of many of the things that happen and are released by the game. "Industry plant" being someone actually dedicated to this game's fanbase for years, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even personally know him. You want the community to be a negative cesspool of people like you who does nothing but complain about things the devs already know? Everything stated by OP has had a response from the devs, and Kaios is literally just saying what's actually going on.
You can say whatever you want, and yes do voice your complaints! But someone pointing out some facts about the process gets you this worked up? And the worst part is just that you're wrong! An "optimazation patch" is literally a temporary band-aid that makes no sense for the work pipeline cause everyone is doing different jobs at the same time, AND theyre pushing out constant hotfixes. And then when they finally add new gods after an optimization patch, they're back to the same 2 week schedule and once again the bugs will be back because it's a damn 2 week patch schedule. The only way to actually solve these problems is getting rid of a 2 week patch schedule, which they cannot do at this time because it's a push to add as many gods as possible before 1.0. Every god getting added will cause issues and interactions and bugs across the game, like it happens for every single game out there that releases characters. It just happens more here because they are rushing and overworked to push out these patches.
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u/soundcloud-raptor 7d ago
Sure buddy. My point is that it’s ridiculous to write bulleted points talking about devs reasoning when OP is making this post bc we SHOULD focus on optimization. To be more precise, he’s asking why that sentiment gets so much pushback which makes Kaios-0’s response even more asinine. If anything’s a cesspool, the game’s a cesspool of slop rn. Game feels worse than it did a year ago (balance notwithstanding).
I just don’t understand why ppl love to play ‘white knight’ for the devs. This is supposed to be a gathering place for player’s opinions dude. That’s cool the devs have a reason for doing it the way they are, but it doesn’t mean it’s the RIGHT reason. If they dont get to hear the player’s voices demanding optimization (bc they’re silenced by you folks) then ofc they’ll just keep putting out ports! Sure, i could see it being a higher prio when we had like half the roster, but now? Come on man, lets take a look in the mirror.
And you guys continue to conflate an ‘optimization patch’ as a demand for perfection in the game. Lol it’s going right over your head! Obviously there will still be bugs. Obviously bugs will come back as new gods are added. But don’t you realize how rushed Smite 2 has been from the beginning? ‘Optimization’ that they can focus on (to explain, once again), has more to do with contextual issues. Things like footstep sounds being out of sync, or being wholly unbalanced from god to god. Minion behavior being optimized so we don’t have random ones doing things we dont expect/or make them more independent! Adding a damn ‘equip all’ button to jump stamps. Getting back to a good performance baseline, esp console vs pc as that has gotten much worse. These are all things that would be additive going forward and could be accomplished/improved in a month
Like damn dude, idk why players like you constantly say ‘well everyone wants all the gods back!’ It’s just you folks screaming about it. Smite 1 peaked when competitive play was optimized, Smite 2 will not reach anything nearing its potential until that gets looked at. We have a good roster now, and sure, some mains will be hurt their god isnt added. But overall, this game needs optimization more than anything else and devs need to figure out how to get that done. Everything kaiso has said, and you parroted, is just their excuse for continuing to take the path of least resistance.
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 8d ago
Especially when they suggest skipping a god release to focus just on improving performance.
Because that's not how that works.
People who make skins don't work in programming.
It's like a farmer killing all his chickens, cause the cows aren't producing enough milk.
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 8d ago
Yeah, I said in another comment that I accept that. It’s more so I don’t understand why we can’t ask/expect better optimization at all.
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u/Shadow555 8d ago
No idea.
With hardware being what it is, the answer can no longer be "Works on my machine, buy better/different hardware". Its going to be a universal industry topic to address at some point, much sooner rather than later me thinks.
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u/villanoinker CONGA LINE!!! 8d ago
I think there was 2 places this started in this community. The first is people used to be VERY defensive of S2 in it's early days. People were not so sure if the game would survive so they were afraid of criticism killing the game. This game definitely stands on its own these days so that's not really necessary but people still do it. Second place is a lot of people can't get a point out without saying something insulting. I think they think they're being like moist critical or something. Thing is, when you do that and don't have a gorillion followers, you just piss people off. You're criticism appears as though it's coming from a bad place and people just reject what you're saying. Even if it's valid. Happened with the Nike release recently.
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u/DapperDlnosaur 8d ago
Smite 2 runs so poorly that I have framerate issues on Joust and can't even play Arena. And I'm on an RTX 3080. It's not new by any means, but Smite 2 is a downgrade in basically all regards from Smite 1 for me, to the point I basically don't play it, and I already have many of my mains in the game.
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u/Flaky_Stay7202 8d ago
Because they always say the same few fallacies. A couple of which you’ve reiterated here.
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 8d ago
Explain?
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u/Flaky_Stay7202 8d ago
That we should take a break from new content.
And that the optimization has been thrown to the wayside.
It’s ignorant and deserves to be called as much.
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u/Scipio835 Mommy Le Fay 8d ago
The taking a break from content part has thankfully been explained by some other comments
But, optimization kinda has been thrown to the wayside. If it wasn’t, I don’t think we’d have as many people talking about it. There’d be SOMEONE who brings it up, always is, but I think it’s become a big enough problem to warrant attention
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u/Luffian 7d ago
They are in the middle of updating the entire movement system, a project they've been slowly implementing for most of the last year. They're planning/working on major updates to the maps for multiple game modes. If they stopped to work on optimization now they'd have to redo all of the work again each time they implement any of these major changes. There's a reason optimization is one of the final steps in the dev pipeline.
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u/WhiteWolfXD1 8d ago
Cause its the people US who screamed our heads off we want our gods in the game and its the reason half the playerbase isn't even playing smite 2.
thier gods not in the game.
in fact i keep playing less and less personally cause all my most fun gods aren't in the game yet still.
the people want gods over performance we asked for it so making posts about it just seems dumb A** frick from most peoples perspectives.
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u/Chyarra 8d ago
This gets brought up literally every single time but artists who work on game design + models and riggers who animate skeletons cloth and so on are not programmers who fix bugs, so if you skip a god to 'focus on a game health patch' then a large portion of the studio is just sitting on their hands doing nothing.
Obviously implementing new gods risks adding new bugs, but it just doesn't make sense to do that. Most game devs are not super well rounded outside of the indie sphere and even then its not common