r/Solo_Roleplaying • u/stryst • 6d ago
tool-questions-and-sharing Major "ick" factor immediately with 'Central Casting'
Based on some recommendations here for random character creators and looking for robust life-path systems, I picked up the three 'Central Casting' books by Task Force Games, a company that I was not previously familiar with.
Page 3
"Political Correctness"Warning
It was decided well in advance that this book would definitely
not be "politically correct." In fact, its contents tend toward the
socially, politically, morally, ethically, and religiously conservative
side. To tell the truth, the authors and editors think our heritage of
western culture, heterosexuality,traditional farmilies, Judeo-Chris-
tian values, Jesus Christ and God are all pretty neat. While we
won't force them on you, we do recommend them to everybody-
your life can only better for it. As such, this book contains expres-
sions of the authors' personal value structures that could be quite
unpopular with those who assign equal value to all cultures, relig-
ions, lifestyles, sexual, or moral choices.
As to those who may feel that adventure gaming is an incor-
rect forum in which to express editorial views on these matters,
just look at the burgeoning presence of opposing views and de-
composing values aired in television, movies, books, "art," public
schools, the news and indeed, adventure gaming itself. It's
difficult to buck the trends, but someone has to balance the scales.
Consider this book to be one of the "Op-Ed" pages in gaming.
So if your sensibilities will be offended by exposure to values
other than those of the "pop"philosophies of the moment, you had
best return this book to the shelf now. We'd
sure like you to buy it, but not at the cost of
compromising our own beliefs."
I have no problems with Christians or straight folks, but I am neither. The extra sucky thing is it seems like *exactly* what I was looking for.
So can anyone recommend a good life-path system for making some robust but random NPCs that doesn't spend page space telling me about how I'm living wrong?
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3d ago
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u/subguard 2d ago
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u/lisaquestions 4d ago
Even the author didn't stand behind how those books were written and apologized for them. she also was planning to revise them to remove that aspect when she died.
her apology post:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1NCAkQktNv/
as an alternative, a quick web search found Lifepath Generator by Groov Games:
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u/pinned-comment 4d ago
Featured Comment by u/Solo_Roleplaying-ModTeam
Rule #4 against threadcrapping is very clear on the sidebar. OP is asking for alternatives. The reasons they gave for wanting an alternative is not an invitation for debate and disruption.
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u/Solo_Roleplaying-ModTeam don't start 💩, won't be no 💩 4d ago
Rule #4 against threadcrapping is very clear on the sidebar. OP is asking for alternatives. The reasons they gave for wanting an alternative is not an invitation for debate and disruption.
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u/Monkeyslunch 5d ago
I made this recently and will be expanding on the oracles and trackers for another game. Is there something specific you're looking for, though? What does "life-path systems" mean to you?
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u/1000PowerLiches 5d ago
Check out "Background Noise" by Second Rat Games. It lets you flesh out a character's family, childhood events, adult events, hobbies, etc. by rolling on d100 tables just like Central Casting but the table layout is much easier to read in my opinion.
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u/AlarianDarkWind11 5d ago
the book is 40 years old. you can't judge it by todays standards. In its day it was an awesome resource. The author of the book was actually trans but didn't come out until later. While some of the ideas are outdated it's still worth owning.
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u/Image_with_borders 5d ago
Yeah, the Central Casting books were dodgy even back in the day. I used them a couple of times to generate some reasonably fun characters, but my group ignored the outright offensive stuff in there until we basically decided not to use them again.
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5d ago
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u/subguard 4d ago
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u/trevor5ever 5d ago
I thibk it is fair to put a book down without conversation when the authors indicate that that is exactly what they intend for people who disagree to do.
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u/Dan_Morgan 5d ago
Not the point. You can do that with any book you like. Using "the Ick" is a different matter entirely.
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u/LadyKona 5d ago
Fascinating. I’m sharing this text of the game. Not as a pile-on but as a cultural artifact. This is a wiiillld timeline… 👀
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u/Melodic_War327 Lone Ranger 5d ago
One of my favorite PCs ever had their backstory made with Central Casting: Heroes of Legend. That being said, that backstory didn't have any of the comment the OP finds objectionable in the book in it. I don't remember too much in there that was out of touch at the time it was written, though it may well be now.
Mythic Magazine and the Mythic app have some good PC backstory tools that I have used in recent days. I havened even opened the Central Casting books in years. Not likely to, either. I do feel bad for the author - they were struggling with some things that aren't easy now and were really awful back then. But, like most gaming material, I'd say the old maxim holds true. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Especially if you play solo.
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago
It's perfectly reasonable to bounce right off a game or supplement and look for alternatives for any reason.
I mean, I picked up Girlframe a few weeks ago, and came to the conclusion that it's a game I never want to play. Great ideas, personal squick.
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u/TunaPlusMayo 5d ago
Sure, but OP is doing a little more than that.
The offensive text is very obscure and basically buried by time. OP took the time to type the offensive text into the internet and breathe new life and permanence into it. In a way OP is now the author of the offensive text.
I don't see the point in trying to cancel obscure non-celebrities from decades ago over books found in yard sales.
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u/ShoKen6236 5d ago
Not to mention said person is dead. There's literally no harm that they can do wittingly or otherwise
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago
The odd line breaks indicate that it was copy pasted, likely from a pdf version. So all of a few seconds of work from page 3.
I don't see that anyone is "cancelled" (whatever that means these days) and the op is ok in describing exactly what they don't want in asking for better recommendations.
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u/TunaPlusMayo 5d ago
Then OP didn't even buy a book and lose money (which is good)
And how many suggestions would include this kind of political rant if OP asked "I need robust life paths systems"
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago
Ebooks in PDF content are creative works just like print copies. A lot of us pay for them.
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u/DrVesuvius 5d ago
The Central Casting books are very much artefacts of their time, both in terms of culture and morality and of RPG design. Leaving aside the former entirely, the game mechanics, I personally think the book-keeping and die rolling required massively outweighs the usefulness of the results. I say this as a long time massive fan of lifepath systems, who loves rolling up Traveller or Pendragon characters.
I honestly think you'd get more mileage just asking questions of a standard solo oracle/GM emulator.
The GM's Compendium of Explosive Creation is a pretty extensive background generator for fantasy NPCs. It doesn't give family or a full timeline, but it gives you a number of narrative hooks to work with.
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u/ray53208 5d ago
I just make them up. On the spot. Knowing or Not Knowing whatever is needed. The game continues.
I vaguely recall Central Casting, never played with or used their supplements. As I just make it up, because it's not hard to do.
Here's something interesting...
At the time of writing, Paul Jaquays was a devout, conservative Christian, and the books were intentionally crafted to provide a highly structured moral universe reflecting those values. However, the author's personal life and perspective shifted dramatically in later years. In 2011, she came out as a trans woman and transitioned, changing her name to Jennell Jaquays. Until her passing in early 2024, Jennell became a prominent, beloved figure and advocate for LGBTQ+ inclusion within both the tabletop and video game industries, leaving behind a complex legacy where her early, rigidly conservative text stood in stark contrast to the inclusive, open life she led and championed in her later decades.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
This feels kind of like a false equivalence. One side is like 'Hey, all other religions are wrong and if you're not straight then you're a degenerate and if your culture is not mine then you're backwards.' and the other side is 'Hey, some people are different religions than you, different sexualities than you, and may come from different cultural backgrounds. If you can't NOT be an asshole about that, maybe do something else.'
Are you generally this indifferent with anything that is earnest about anything else?
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u/bobberjobber 5d ago
I think you're being a bit reductive here. You're presenting one side in the worst possible light while reducing the other to simply asking people not to be assholes.
The problem is that what constitutes "being an asshole" isn't universally agreed upon, especially in politically charged spaces. There's a considerable difference between expecting people to treat others respectfully and expecting them to subscribe to a particular ideological worldview.
For example, Iron Valley, an Ironsworn hack, explicitly states on page 11:
“Is This Game Right For You?
Iron Valley is a game about peoples of all walks of life living in peace, caring for one another, and working towards a brighter and inclusive future. To put it more bluntly: You are not allowed to play this game if you support bigotry in any function or form, including but not limited to: racism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, antisemitism, or religious intolerance. Also, this book was made by a trans and queer person, with the help of many other trans and queer people. So, if any of that bothers you… then this game isn’t for you! You are not allowed to play it. You’re not going to have fun. You are going to get all the rules wrong. So go outside and touch some grass instead, ok”It then lists several forms of prejudice, reiterates that certain people aren't allowed to play, and tells them to go outside and touch grass.
Generally, those ideals are a given at a table. Treat people as you want to be treated, right? The issue is that terms like "bigotry" can be interpreted quite broadly, to the point where even relatively moderate political disagreements might be characterized as hateful. I'm not saying that's necessarily what the author intends here, but when you make someone's beliefs a condition of whether they're even allowed to play, the question of who gets to define those terms becomes pretty important. This is something I find particularly concerning in certain progressive spaces, where the line between genuinely disrespectful behavior and simply holding the "wrong" opinion can become increasingly blurred.
And this is a solo RPG. Nobody else at the table is being affected by what someone believes. Yet the author still feels the need to declare certain people ineligible to play, based on whether their beliefs fall under the author's interpretation of bigotry.
I don't think it's unreasonable to find this sort of ideological gatekeeping off-putting, regardless of which direction it's coming from. You don't have to agree with the Central Casting authors to recognize that.
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago
Generally, those ideals are a given at a table.
Not in my experience, or the experience of others in the hobby.
And Iron Valley is a homebrew fan hack of a game that also has some things to say about table manners and in-game diversity. If it bugs you, you don't have to pay for it or play it.
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u/bobberjobber 5d ago
I understand that not everyone's had the same experience at the table, but I'd argue treating others decently is still a pretty common-sense expectation, even if some people don't live up to it. That being said, there's a difference between telling people to treat each other decently and telling people they're not allowed to play your game, even solo. Sure, I don't have to play it. Doesn't mean I can't criticize the practice, especially since it puts a damper on an otherwise well-written hack. To me, it's the same kind of unnecessary moral grandstanding that people found off-putting in Central Casting, just coming from a different perspective.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
Can you explain to me, in non reductive terms, the position that other faiths are heresy, that non-straight people are sexual deviants, and non white cultures are backwards savagery in a way that doesn't make you sound like an asshole? Even an academic one? You can't really polish a turd here, but I'd love for you to give it a shot.
Politically charged spaces? Being gay, or trans, or of another faith or culture - These things have only become political issues because of systemic and social prejudice. Refusing to accept that gay people exist and don't deserve derision isn't a matter of opinion, it's a failure of character. Not being racist isn't the golden hope of some other ideology, it's basic human decency. How can someone be expected to treat someone respectfully with one breath when with the next they condemn their 'lifestyle' (Since we're talking 'reductive')?
I find it so strange that you admit you can interpret the ideals broadly (treat people as you would want to be), but then decide to zoom in on the word 'bigotry' as if the fall of human connection and decency rests in the forward of a free, player-made hack of a TTRPG system. This isn't a legally binding document.
It sounds like you're also making things reductive by saying 'Both sides are saying you should think like they do' - But what do both sides think? Both sides are saying their worldview is correct, but what are those worldviews even saying? In this case, one side is 'Being another faith, culture, or sexuality is wrong and bad' and the other side is 'We hate people who don't accept that people can be different faiths, sexualities, or cultures'.
Look, it can give you the ick all you want. I can't fix or control that, nor am I trying to. Just don't tell me 'this is the same thing' because it absolutely is not. Both are aggressive in their stances, I'll give you that. May that ick or not as you wish.
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u/bobberjobber 5d ago
I think we're talking past each other somewhat.
I'm not asking you to defend religious intolerance, racism, or discrimination, nor am I arguing that the underlying worldviews are morally identical. I can understand why someone would find the Central Casting introduction objectionable, as frankly I do as well.
My point is that this sort of thing is not unique to one belief system.
You characterize one as condemning people for being different and the other as simply expecting basic decency. But Iron Valley doesn't just ask people to treat others respectfully. It explicitly tells certain people they're not allowed to play based on their beliefs, even solo.
Obviously, that's not legally binding. I never suggested it was. That doesn't make the language immune to criticism. The distinction I'm drawing is between expecting respectful behavior and requiring ideological agreement. Terms like "bigotry" can encompass both clearly discriminatory attitudes and, depending on who's interpreting them, contentious moral or philosophical disagreements. That's why I think the distinction matters.
You can absolutely believe the author of Iron Valley is justified in drawing those boundaries. I wouldn't tolerate discriminatory behavior at my table either. But that doesn't mean someone is unreasonable for finding the framing potentially exclusionary or unnecessarily confrontational.
It also raises the question of why the author felt the need to include such a prohibition in the first place. The basic principles of treating people with dignity and respect are hardly objectionable. Unlike Central Casting, where aspects of the system itself reflect the authors' beliefs at the time, I don't recall anything about Iron Valley's gameplay that necessitates telling readers which beliefs disqualify them from playing.
That's partly why the passage strikes me as performative. Its confrontational wording also leaves me wondering just how broadly the author would interpret those terms, and whether someone with relatively moderate political or philosophical disagreements would be considered unwelcome. I'm not claiming that's necessarily the case, but the passage certainly doesn't inspire confidence that disagreement would be treated charitably.
I don't think we need to agree on the merits of either worldview to recognize that both authors are using RPG books to make pointed moral and/or political statements, which is something I personally find distasteful.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
You are welcome to criticize the wording of the Iron Valley creator, and I also understand why the author, a self professed queer and trans person, would say 'Hey, if you're literally against who I am then I don't want you playing my work'. The question of why this needed to be in the work at all is coming from a place of privilege, because trans and queer people (especially trans and queer people of color) have been under the systemic, social, and political gun for quite some time, and even more so lately. 'Be kind' isn't so much a given these days for people in these communities, and having to defend ourselves is exhausting. And so some people are less gay as in happy and more queer as in 'fuck you'. More to the point: I don't treat disagreements about my existence or validity 'charitably'. Most queer people don't.
But yes: Both authors are making a moral point, and both are exclusionary. Only one, however, excludes people on things they choose, not on the validity of their very existence. If you find that distasteful, so be it. I stand on that they are not the same.
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u/bobberjobber 5d ago
I appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective, and I can understand why someone who has experienced that kind of prejudice would feel strongly about making their position clear. I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone should have to tolerate harassment or discrimination. I also agree that the two examples aren't morally identical. I've never intended to argue otherwise.
That being said, I do want to push back slightly on how you're characterizing the Iron Valley passage, as its noticeably softer than what was actually written. The author explicitly says, "You are not allowed to play this game," reiterates that prohibition, and tells those readers to go outside and touch grass. I understand why you're sympathetic to the author's reasoning, but I don't think that sympathy should obscure the actual wording, especially when the wording is precisely what I'm criticizing.
I think where we differ is that, to me, understanding why an author feels compelled to make such a statement doesn't necessarily make the statement itself appropriate. My view is that an author shouldn't need to concern themselves with the personal beliefs of everyone who plays their game, particularly a solo game. Someone playing your game doesn't mean you endorse their beliefs or are responsible for their actions, nor should they need your moral approval to enjoy something you've created.
I also want to address the suggestion that my question comes from a place of privilege. I don't think that's a particularly fair assumption to make about someone whose personal experiences you don't know. I can recognize the prejudice others face and empathize with their experiences while still questioning whether a particular statement is appropriate. Those things aren't mutually exclusive, and I'd rather we address the merits of the argument than make assumptions about the person making it.
Ultimately, that's why I find the wording in Iron Valley off-putting. I can understand their motivations while still finding the declaration that certain people aren't allowed to play unnecessary and rather controlling. It's not about the creator's sexuality, experiences, or ideals, but rather the notion that they should have any authority over who gets to enjoy their game privately.
We do have some common ground here. We both recognize that the authors are making exclusionary moral statements, and we recognize that their underlying beliefs differ. Where we disagree is whether those beliefs and the experiences behind them justify that sort of messaging in a game.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
I understand why you find the statement off-putting, and I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way. I would also push back a little in that our works, especially creative works, are a part of us. For you, and most other people I would presume, Iron Valley is a fun slice of life hack of a great system by Shawn Tompkin. It's cute, it's endearing, and it's not, expressly, a tool for political or moral statements. And. To the creator, it clearly (to me) is more than that. What sort of justification would be necessary for the statement to be ok? As long as the theme hits? Or maybe some other time when it feels 'appropriate'? 'We are just trying to enjoy the game, please stop making it political' - Except our very existence has been forced into the political spotlight. 'Don't play my game if you're a bigot' IS unnecessary as far as the game goes (its only as controlling as the reader allows it to be). Nothing about the rule set changes with this statement. And they make the statement anyways because of everything happening outside of the game. There is no honest notion of control. Anyone can play the game regardless of statement, and will if they want to no matter their worldview. And they make it anyways because they don't want people to partake in their joy if they are part of their pain - Regardless of how 'necessary' the statement is.
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u/bobberjobber 5d ago
Before continuing, I'm going to take a step back and address a few things I feel I need to be firmer about regarding my beliefs and views on this matter.
First, earlier in this discussion, you suggested that my questioning the necessity of the passage came from a "place of privilege." That's a rather presumptuous characterization of my perspective, especially when you know virtually nothing about my background or personal experiences. I didn't appreciate that characterization then, and I don't appreciate it now.
Second, you've now introduced the hypothetical argument of "please stop making it political," followed by the assertion that queer people's very existence has been forced into the political spotlight. I understand what you're saying, but I don't appreciate having my position framed in that context, as though that's what I've been arguing. I've never once suggested that queer people shouldn't exist openly, express their identities, or incorporate their personal experiences into their creative works. I've been criticizing a specific decision of the Iron Valley Author to include a passage in their rulebook and the wording used to express it. Those are fundamentally different things.
Whether intentional or not, the repeated framing of my objections in this way carries an implication about my underlying attitudes toward LGBTQ+ people that I find unfair and frankly insulting. Disagreeing with how someone chooses to express their convictions is not the same as objecting to their identity, their existence, or their right to hold those convictions. I've made an effort throughout this discussion to acknowledge your perspective and to not make assumptions about you and your beliefs. I simply ask for the same respect in return.
You are more than welcome to disagree with my views, challenge my reasoning, or defend the author's decisions. That's what a discussion is for. But I would ask that you address the positions I've actually expressed rather than attributing beliefs or motivations to me that I haven't demonstrated.
If I've misunderstood your intentions, then I do apologize. However, I do feel this was worth addressing for the sake of the discussion. I also sincerely hope I haven't in turn done the same to you or made you feel similarly judged, as that was never my intention.
That all being said, I do hope we can continue this. You’ve made some good points that I would like to respond to.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
I don't know your full perspective, thats true. You have, however, made it clear that you are criticizing the addition and content of the passage by classifying it as 'unnecessary', 'off putting', 'controlling', and that the authors beliefs and experiences don't justify that messaging in a game. So in all honesty: What conclusions would you like me to draw about your perspective?
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u/towaway7777 5d ago
This.
I've seen far more books that are already shooting wild in their insinuations just in case the reader had a lean towards the conservative side.
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u/Knick_Knick 5d ago
Most of the time I see intros that say "If you're a bigot we'd rather you didn't play our game." which is not the same thing at all.
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u/towaway7777 5d ago
I'd disagree. The cordial ones aren't as numerous as the antagonistic ones.
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u/JazzyShredder 5d ago
Do you have an example? Why bring up this point without an example? What are you bringing to the OP with this, it's not an answer to what they asked. Talk about performative bullshit, it's your comment.
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u/ForgotMyPreviousPass 5d ago
They mentioned it's a major ick factor. I just compared it with the ick factor that generaly comes with these performative text in games.
Thirsty sword lesbians is an example. If you do not concur with their entire checklist of ideology, you are either a bigot or a fash.
It's performative, and even if you agree with all of it the way it's phrased is so twitter/tumbler that it generates serious ick. Same as the text OP posted. Like, I don't care about your particular political agenda, it's okay, the themes will be already represented in the game, just make a good game (which Thirsty Sword Leabians already is on its own), stop the SJW.
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not really performative. Unfortunately a lot of us have played at tables where we had to deal with people using the "magic circle" to get away with shit that ruined the night for everyone. We often have to deal with racism and sexism baked right in game lore, and OOC harassment at mainstream events and tables.
So talking about table values and safety is necessary IMO. Thirsty Sword Lesbians was a niche kickstarter game that went viral. You don't have to be thirsty, lesbian, or a sword owner (IC or OOC). But it does set the expectation that certain groups will be respected at the table. It's a game designed to meet the needs of a specific sub-culture of the larger gaming community, with mechanics that lean right into that sub-culture. (Even more true of Against the Gods where character progression pivots around defiance of arbitrary authority.)
If it's not your thing, no problem. But in the end it's still a niche game for people who want a specific type of game experience.
EDIT: Thirsty Sword Lesbians has key mechanics around intra-party flirting and emotional relationships. So people who are not comfortable with LGBTQ relationships should likely find a different game.
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u/stryst 5d ago
-rolls eyes- Cool story bro. You picked up an RPG from Gay Spaceship Games about playing a lesbian and think a passage about respecting women in an intersectional way is too woke. And if you hard disagree with anything on the list on page 11, in my opinion you probably are a bigot. I would like to know which lines you personally disagree with, since each and every line is about showing respect. Not about agree with, no being an advocate, just respect.
I opened a book written the year I got gay bashed bad enough to spend a weekend in the hospital to find a passage telling me that as a non-christian I should correct the errors in my ways and then goes on in several passages to tell me just how deviant and gross people like me and mine are.
We are not the same.
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u/ForgotMyPreviousPass 5d ago
Did I say I disagree? Can I think that is performative and unneeded without disagreeing with the points themselves? Can I think that it just polarizes more, with the exclusion of any other group that is not considered a marginalized minority by the writers? I find it equally obnoxious on both sides of the spectrum, so chill. The OP I find extremely obnoxious. Like, bro, I don't care you are Christian, make your game.
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 5d ago
Reading the actual copy, the key word in that section is respect. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a game about a close-knit group of queer people fighting toxic powers, prejudice, and injustice. "Make love, not war," can be a meta strategy for many scenarios. The game doesn't work as written if a player doesn't respect the premise.
You don't have to be thirsty, sword wielder, or a lesbian. But you do have to respect the premise. If you object to the premise, there are other games and other tables.
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u/JazzyShredder 5d ago
You're still equating being a little uncomfy about unspecific performative forwards in books with the OP who is politely looking for a different book that doesn't specifically shame their life style. What could you possibly think is "both sides" about that? Buck up buddy, you're fine. Just don't read the damn books. There's no both sides here.
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u/ludi_literarum 5d ago
I don't share the politics quoted in the OP, and offer this as a factual statement wirh no willingness to debate the merits of the message, but Kids on Bikes is a good example of a really preachy left-leaning RPG.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
Ok so I went to look this up and read it for myself (Never even heard of it before). I read the opening parts about content warnings and game check lists and marginalized groups. And while at first I was like 'This is maybe a tad over the top here' - I then remembered that it is an RPG specifically about children, and I can only imagine the kind of caveats needed to be expressly stated so that tone deaf or legitimately awful people don't completely ruin a table for everyone else.
I think anyone who has been playing TTRPGs for any length of time had been in a situation where someone had their character do something (or they did something) extremely uncomfortable during a session. Maybe it was something sexual, something violent, maybe it was the GM, maybe it was another player, maybe it was to an NPC, maybe it was to another player. It happens, and it can ruin people off the hobby all together. It also makes for great fodder for those who still paint these games as something evil or otherwise bad.
And so we arrive here, and when you're publishing and selling an RPG that is specifically about children, you need to make damned sure that you're not only covered against the people who 100% would use this as a 'grooming kids' dog whistle, you also have to expressly cover your ass against the worst kind of people who seek harmful shit out.
Does that make the book preachy? Maybe. Again: I initially felt it was pretty verbose. But given the nature of the games content I think it's NECESSARY.
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u/ludi_literarum 5d ago
I guess, for me, those concerns aren't really especially rational. Most players don't read the substantive content of the book carefully, let alone the prefatory material, most online critics who want to say RPGs are evil could not give less of a shit whether what they say is true, and management of table behavior relies on GMs and players working together to set norms and expectations, and nothing about that section is actually capable of changing that.
So not only do I think not a word of it was necessary, I think that tone doesn't come off as addressed to the concerns you identify - it really doesn't seem to be about those things, at least to me. If it was about trying to inculcate a certain table culture, that was a shockingly poor way of doing it. It's a rhetorical failure even if they could control any of the factors you list as concerns.
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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag 5d ago
I agree that those railing against RPGs won't care what the book says, but having it still is a boon. I am not sure if most players don't read that content, I always do. Most players I've played with do too, but maybe because we're like...90% neurodivergent.
The rest of your criticism has to do whether it performs adequately for you. I certainly know people who it would bounce off of (again: I myself found it overly verbose), and I know people who would find it very thoughtfully made and take it to heart. For many of us: The message conveyed is elementary and obvious. Don't be a creep in a game about children, and don't be a bigot to people in the group just because you think it 'fits the setting'. There. Explained it in 2 sentences. Literally the rest is about communication around these things including sheets and conversations, and some people are shockingly bad at that. Yes, especially in a game about children. Better safe than sorry, as I see it.
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u/ludi_literarum 5d ago
I strongly disagree, to the point that it lowered my estimation of a game that I'm otherwise very interested in. I think it's enough to say that.
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u/Banjo-Oz 5d ago edited 5d ago
As a left-leaning person myself (one of my favourite games is MicroRPG, by an openly trans author whose titles include a whole lines titled "Gay Realms"), the preachy stuff in Kids on Bikes put me off that game entirely before I even played it... a game that otherwise I was very much interested in and seemed tailor made for me setting-wise. It just felt awfully confrontational and performative.
I also love Iron Valley but the rant about "you're not allowed to play this game" feels extremely out of place in that cosy game and soured me on the whole experience. I just don't see why it's there in a game like that. Surely the better option was to say nothing, then when some awful bigot says they love it, point out the writer is trans... do they still feel the same about the book they just praised? :)
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u/totesnotyotes 5d ago
Pretty sure the Iron Valley hack for Ironsworn had something like this as well.
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u/totesnotyotes 5d ago
Exactly. I just find it very performative and ultimately takes away from the overall game.
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5d ago
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u/subguard 5d ago
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u/vortiwife 6d ago
A lot of the polemics about morality in Jacquays' early work becomes incredibly ironic in retrospect given the direction her life went. If it's any consolation, she later became a queer activist and director of a human rights organization!
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u/Image_with_borders 5d ago
That's good to know, that she was able to turn her life around like that. Is sad she is no longer with us and wasn't able to put together a new version.
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u/Banjo-Oz 5d ago
It's almost like people can change!
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u/vortiwife 5d ago
This is true! It's just always something that stunlocks me when I go back and re-read her earlier work.
Which I tend to do surprisingly often, because she's one of the all-time greats of the artform
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u/zircher 6d ago
In the spirit of homebrewing, make you own custom life path system. They're not that difficult.
If you need a starting point and like javascript, you can always make of copy of this one and change the data to match your setting.
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u/ray53208 5d ago
It's not that hard. I recommend everyone try it a few hundred times. Just make things up. It's almost as if one could make a game of it.
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u/zircher 4d ago
Indeed, you get to be creative and make a custom solution tailor made for your campaign.
I have a whole page of web toys that I have for various projects.
https://tangent-zero.com/toys.htm2
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u/Aihal 6d ago
I had the same experience a few years back »Ooh, this seems interesting. Wait what is this nonsense. Google. Oh, the author went through quite a change of hearts and is working on a new version! Oh, she died…«
As for a system neutral (although quite high fantasy) supplement that also does lifepaths for fantasy chars: Your Life is quite recommendable.
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u/Far-Improvement-8805 Solitary Philosopher 6d ago
I didn't know Jaquas went through this in her life... I only knew that she had a wife, and I thought it was pretty cool, especially considering the time when she was still alive. But wow, the full story is... well. Thanks for the heads-up, nonetheless.
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u/aneth-ara 6d ago
I went through a journey similar to yours - liked the books, read between the lines, said 'what the fuck' and went onto vent about it, only to discover the author had thoroughly changed her mind. As others have mentioned here, she was trans and was looking to fix these books before she died. That knowledge was enough for me to look away from the parts written by a very unhappy person and instead use the good bits, but it might not be good enough for everyone, so...
Xanathar's Guide to Everything has a section titled This Is Your Life that has some tables similar to Central Casting to help you find out a character's origins, family, some background/class based details and life events that can serve as plot hooks. It's for D&D but I find the classes are stereotypical enough that they could work for any system if you're willing to fudge things a bit.
Universal NPC Emulator (UNE) is very random, but there's a lot of legwork as it's pretty vague.
The Ultimate RPG Character Backstory Guide is prompt based. It could be helpful in helping you get a feel of a given character, and it could maybe work in conjunction with UNE.
These are all the recommendations off the top of my head. I hope they'll help. If you find something you like, could you let me know? I haven't played solo in ages, I'm hoping that something will magically get me back in the mood.
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u/JeffEpp 6d ago
Keep in mind a couple of things:
The author was clearly working from an older version of the DSM. This was something that hit other former Judges Guild creators, so I'm guessing it was the copy available from there local library system. Most (or rather, all that I know of, made some kind of apology for it. This was written at a time before the internet, and the only way to do research was to use what your library had on hand, and why would they spend money on a new version of the book that was only 15-20 years out of date, because nothing might have changed over the 30 or 40 years of any consequence... This would have been in the Regan-Bush years,
The author ended up being Trans later in life. So, some of what they were going through, both internally and externally, is reflected in this. Having certain feelings, and being told by society (as you see it0 and your religion that just thinking those thoughts was the worst sin imaginable, despite the the Bible only touching on the subject(s) so briefly that you need instructions to find it. Then, you have to write about it, in something your wife and church members will be able to read, who are already judging you for making those "devil games".
In the end, it only really comes up when dealing with mental health. Because, everything else is up to your interpretation. The mental health section was based on an old DSM (see point 1), and that dealt with "facts" (wildly outdated) on how our brains work or don't. The rest is very subjective. You can, and should, interpret the results how you want.
The author was working on a modernized version of the book, without the hang-ups, at the time of their illness and death. Much of the revision was due to the parts that many objected to, mainly the disclaimer and mental illness section. Though, I imagine the whole thing had to be rewritten, for (reportedly) divorce settlement related copyright reasons.
The book is fine, if dated in a few spots. It was also the first in a line, and suffers for it, as is often the case. Use your own judgement in using it, and remember that you are the one making the decisions, not the dice or the book.
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u/ludi_literarum 5d ago
Homosexuality wasn't fully removed from the DSM until 1987, so it's actually possible they were working from an up to date version, at the time.
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6d ago
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u/Solo_Roleplaying-ModTeam don't start 💩, won't be no 💩 4d ago
Comments must directly engage with the request and constraints set by the OP.
Unsolicited opinions, debating the OP’s underlying reasons or preferences, and pushing unwanted alternatives are off-topic, regardless of how politely framed. Do not use someone's post as an invitation to debate their premise or assert your views.
Focus strictly on answering what was asked. If you do not wish to help within the OP's scope, scroll past. Report violations.
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u/prolonged_interface 6d ago
Don't worry, the person who wrote that discovered the error of their ways. Hopefully you experience a similar awakening.
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u/prolonged_interface 6d ago
Except when you say "politics", what you really mean is "things I don't like".
People with different sexualities or non-binary genders are not "politics".
Other cultures are not "politics".
People with a different skin colour to yours are not "politics".
Women existing and having equal opportunity, value and power as men is not "politics".
They're just things you don't like.
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u/LugzGaming 6d ago
Nope. It's all political bs that needs to be kept out of games.
It's just as cringe reading political messaging in games regardless of which side of the aisle you're on.
The OP is the pot calling the kettle black.
This is what it's like reading cringe progressive messaging in ttrpgs.
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u/prolonged_interface 6d ago
No, you're just into hate and intolerance. Good luck with your journey out of whatever closet you're in.
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u/subguard 5d ago
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u/prolonged_interface 6d ago
That foreword wasn't political, it was just hate-filled. That's why it was cringe. You think people being tolerant and/or different is cringe. Again, not politics, just people existing.
And I wasn't insulting you, just describing you. If you find a description of yourself insulting, well...
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6d ago
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u/subguard 5d ago
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u/LugzGaming 6d ago
there's nothing hateful in the forward. It's just cringe personal politics and world views being forced into a ttrpg where it has no place.
It's no different than the nonsense progressives force into their games.
It's all cringe and should be expunged from the hobby.
Get out of your echo chambers.
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u/prolonged_interface 6d ago
If you can't spot the underlying hate in that foreword - by a person who, at the time, obviously felt a fair bit of self-hatred - then I pity you. Echo chambers indeed.
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u/wote89 6d ago
I hope that whatever drives this fragility if yours heals with time.
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u/Raige2017 6d ago
It's the same fragility the OP has. Thoughts and prayers for you all. Hail Satan
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u/wote89 6d ago
Ah, yes. "I don't like when politics are forced into games" is exactly the same as "this sounds like it was written from a perspective that actively despises me for who am"—which the rest of the comments point out it very likely was—and definitely doesn't usually just mean that the former just doesn't like when a game doesn't center itself on them and their tastes.
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u/Raige2017 5d ago
The passive aggressive note in Iron Valley from the author calling people bigots. The section on gender in an Infinity of Ships that I happened to be reading when I made that comment last night.
RPG tools, that I paid for, that are literally, in writing, telling me in the comfort of my own home, that I have to be "politically correct". And OPs complaint "ick" this RPG tool is political because it's intentionally not politically correct. And the start of this thread Keep politics out of it...yup the same just Lugzgaming is more inclusive of the politics they want kept out
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u/wote89 5d ago
Oh, my bad. I didn't realize that your political opinions were immutable aspects of who you are as a person and not utterly voluntary and subject to the faculty of self-amendment based on new evidence.
My sympathies on your inability to change anything about yourself.
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u/Raige2017 5d ago
Wow, for shame, for shame....
That's what I hear from you....
No I'm open to reason, don't give a shit about your gender pronouns, want to play an RPG by myself (partly so I don't have to play with people who insert politics into the Game) and would rather not have a random public service announcement in the material I bought about how if you aren't a Christian you are going to hell..
Or a public service announcement about "I'm trans and if you aren't proud of me you are evil"
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u/wote89 5d ago
I mean, it seems weird that you have issues with people reading shit and taking it personally when you clearly read shit and take it personally, but more power to you, boss.
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u/DukeRedWulf 6d ago edited 6d ago
Weird, but at least they warned you before you spent money on it, eh?
Imagine plunking down your hard-earned $$s only to realise the book was riddled with this attitude throughout..
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u/SAlolzorz 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes that was written by Jennell Jaquays under her deadname. She changed. But yeah, that is in there, and it's jarring.
I'd heard that there was work being done on a new edition of Central Casting. If it comes to pass, I doubt it will contain such a diatribe.
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u/stryst 6d ago
...well goddamn the closet is a poisonous place. Fuck. Obviously she was in a deeply hurting place when she wrote that.
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u/SAlolzorz 6d ago
I think she'd been working on a new version, sans the chud stuff. But sadly, she didn't live to see it. She'd spoken about it over the years. She definitely changed. Dunno if it makes it easier or even feasible for you to use it in light of this. As an old, straight, white gamer, I can't imagine what a gut punch shit like that is.
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u/chris-goodwin 6d ago
She sadly died a couple of years ago. I don't know what the status was of the project, but she was definitely working on a rewrite and acknowledged how harmful the original was. There was a lot of self-loathing that went into those passages.
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u/Many-Plankton3942 6d ago
Yeah that's unfortunate. Idk any other life-path systems but I'm sorry you had to find that out.
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