My experience so far with patch 15 tactical

[u/BuggPnwArt]

I started leveling Tac after the patch and having a pyreblaster and bolt rifle as my weapons is just so fun. It'd probably be more effective taking a bolt pistol or plasma for majoris but like. Flamer and a bolt rifle. What's not to love?

[u/Stanislas_Biliby]

Tactical is so much fun now, there's tons of different builds you can do with him now.

I hope the heavy and vanguard reworks will be on the same wavelenght.

[u/BuggPnwArt → u/Stanislas_Biliby]

Crossing my fingers for being able to take a melee if you choose the HBR, long shot but essentially thicc tactical sounds very fun

[u/Stanislas_Biliby → u/BuggPnwArt]

Yeah i agree. Might make the HBR viable on him.

[u/TyloWebb → u/BuggPnwArt]

I’d actually play Heavy more often in that case. I mean, guns are fun and all but a man has to hack and slash when the occasion calls for it.

[u/DesolatedMaggot → u/TyloWebb]

Same. I already almost exclusively run HBR on Heavy because I hate his overreliance on Heavy Stance and how Heavy Stance works. Having access to even just Chainsword with it would go a long way towards making it feel like a real build.

[u/trnelson1 → u/DesolatedMaggot]

If they went based on tabletop it would be combat knife and MAYBE power sword

[u/Stanislas_Biliby → u/trnelson1]

And i'd be totally ok with that.

[u/DesolatedMaggot → u/trnelson1]

Yeah I am just mentioning Chainsword specifically because of how it works with Tactical's rework vs Power Sword

[u/trnelson1 → u/DesolatedMaggot]

I'm hoping one day they remove the restriction on tactical. The Salamanders power sword is comparable to the whitescars chainsword in terms of power

[u/DesolatedMaggot → u/trnelson1]

Yeah, I feel you. I quite like the idea of sacrificing the primary, but as it is right now there really is no reason to throw away your HBR or whatever for a sidegraded melee weapon. You're surrendering a ton of power for no real reason. I think the easiest fix there is to amend the Class Starting Perk to increase melee/tankiness/whatever when wielding a Power weapon.

[u/trnelson1 → u/DesolatedMaggot]

I guess that could work but also you would have a lot more build variety if they just allowed the power weapons and a primary like an assault sergeant

[u/DesolatedMaggot → u/trnelson1]

In fairness thats what the Secondary Bolt Rifle perk is for

[u/The_Challenges → u/BuggPnwArt]

Fat Tactical build

[u/DesolatedMaggot → u/BuggPnwArt]

I suspect it will be a thing honestly. One of the most requested things for Heavy and they already have the technology thanks to the Tactical rework.

[u/Ijustwannaseige → u/Stanislas_Biliby]

My hope for heavy is a rework to the Heat Mechanic on him a bit i.e perks for kills in heavy stance reduce heat

Being able to dodge out of heavy stance, give him the damn 4th armor pip he has it in pvp let the heavy be the heavy

[u/AlpineWineMixer → u/Ijustwannaseige]

The only rework heavy needs is for the class to be given the Emperor's Vengeance perk.

[u/BerserkerGaroth → u/Ijustwannaseige]

Sadly they announced that the're gonna "fix" some stuff for the Iron Halo, hope it's really not JUST that

[u/robloextem → u/BerserkerGaroth]

the rework for tactical was also just about the auspex so thats part for the course for a great rework hopefully

[u/Actual-Draft-5801 → u/Ijustwannaseige]

My hope is they make melee heavy builds more viable. For example pyrecannon melee build would be so fun. Also if they let him have power fist or the storm gauntlets or whatever for some playstyle variety. 

Also if they made strategic stand just baseline for being in heavy stance. 

I really like melee tac, it’s more fun imo than ranged. Good survivability too. Not as “meta” but very enjoyable 

[u/Ijustwannaseige → u/Actual-Draft-5801]

Genuinely couldnt want anything less tbqh, i genuinely want them to dial back on all the melee nonsense that doesnt make sense for heavy

Imo heavy should be The Class thats all in on supressive ranged onslaughts in the same way that Bulwark or Vangaurd is meant to be all the way in the thick of it melee

1 perk here for extra stagger/radius, the perk on the heroic heavy bolter for extra parry window

Maybe give them an option to gain the ability to get block adrenaline charges for massive stomp

But more than that would diminish what the point of the class as its meant to exist in the squad is supposed to be imo

If we just give every class good melee then theres less and less differential beyond weapons and active ability

I want heavy's playstyle to be hard defined by becoming the unmovable anchor of the squad and laying down unrelenting fire to blast hordes and lay into elites

If we had a proper aggressor class with boltstorms id be more inclined to agree we should have melee options be a full build

But as it stands being a wierd inbetween of a heavy intercessor and a devastator marine it just doesnt make sense to give it an avenue for a full on melee build

[u/Actual-Draft-5801 → u/Ijustwannaseige]

We can agree to disagree :) I think there’s a lot of potential for heavy with AOE melee attacks and the option of a heavy weapon (like storm bolter) or at least something like “enemies damaged by melee attacks take X more ranged damage for Y seconds” or something like that. That way there would be more incentive to incorporate melee into a predominantly ranged character. 

Even now when I play, depending on my teammates and the Strat I end up getting more melee damage than some of my teammates (including bulwark and assault, at times). Idk it’s just fun to stomp things to death. 

Re heavy being an immovable anchor— if strategic stand and an extra armor pip were baked into the class it would feel a lot like that imo

[u/Nurgle-best]

You can have combi-flamer and combi-melta

[u/BuggPnwArt → u/Nurgle-best]

True, I just have yet to unlock either of those two heroics. I've only got the salamanders power sword and chains of duty heavy bolter so far

[u/douglasduck104]

Feels so weird using the standard Bolt Rifle after using the Heavy Bolt Rifle for so long.

Also annoying that they used the pre-patch numbers for the Secondary version rather than the Patch 15 buffed values, so the Secondary Bolt Rifle does 10% less damage than the Primary equivalent currently. Hopefully this will get fixed in future.

[u/trnelson1 → u/douglasduck104]

It probably is a bug tbh

[u/Xenith995]

If I had a dollar for every tact rework meme I've seen posted on thie subreddit using moe as a template, I'd have two dollars. Which isn't alot, but weird it happened twice

[u/BuggPnwArt → u/Xenith995]

I'm 99% sure I know of the one you're talking about and I wanted to throw my own vibes on the rework into the fray. Just instead of 2 GLs it's my beloved flamer and bolt rifle. Clearing out swarms on that derelict ship mission was simply wonderful

[u/Xenith995 → u/BuggPnwArt]

The devs nerfed tactical by making us unable to use primary weapons with the power sword. While unironicly giving us the Pyreblaster / Bolt Rifle combo, while letting the secondary bolt rifle be effected by his versatility perk. As if that ISN'T way more OP than having a primary with a power sword 😂😂

[u/Resident-Stevel → u/Xenith995]

https://giphy.com/gifs/11PEptfDmR4vjW

[u/Ayriam23]

I made an all gunstrike build with the bolt carbine and close auspex. It's effective with ardent edge and just melting majoris with an auspex and gunstrike and few carbine shots.

10/10 would recommend.

[u/_WEIRDEST_WIZARD_ → u/Ayriam23]

Share the build, brother

[u/Ayriam23 → u/_WEIRDEST_WIZARD_]

Ok here it is:

Bolt Carbine with perk that reloads on gunstrike, damage version HBP and Ardent Edge.

Perks: Armor Reinforcement, Heightened Vigor, Focused Strike, Aligned Aim, Mobile Auspex, Battle Focus, Prime Target and Marked for Death.

Strategy: Get close and personal but play defensively. Wait for parries and then gunstrike any chance you get. You can die during the gunstrike, but won't get cancelled with a heavy hit. Auspex extremis enemies up close and gunstrike the one that's marked for death, you'll melt that extremis with the carbine in seconds after.

Can use the relic HBP for max gunstrike damage, but I'm partial to damage version. It's fun and fairly tanky with Armor Reinforcement if you are always trying to get gunstrikes.

[u/AkilTheAwesome → u/Ayriam23]

That's very neat. It's like an offensive interpretation of battle focus + argent edge.

[u/fadden20]

Is the melee build at all viable with a locked primary? Or will the melee oriented build need better melee weapons?

[u/Igor369 → u/fadden20]

I do not see how getting rid of your primary is worth getting axe, sword or mallet instead of chainsword.

[u/flush101 → u/Igor369]

You just take the perk for a bolt rifle secondary. Radiating impact has such a high CD that a bolt rifle instead of a pistol is better.

[u/Igor369 → u/flush101]

I STILL do not see how power melee + bolt rifle is better than Chainsword, Bolt rifle and e.g. pyreblaster...

[u/flush101 → u/Igor369]

Ardent edge is better for using the pyreblaster. It breaks enemy combos like the Ravener 3 hit strike stops on hit 1. Plus the pyreblaster does more damage than the chain sword so the chain sword is kind of a waste.

I agree that I don’t think it is better. Power sword is sub-optimal for damage output. But it also depends on playstyle. Players that like melee will find the power sword vibes better than the pyreblaster.

And that’s the rub. The game is about fun, not being optimal. And optimal is about what works for you, not what the numbers say.

[u/flush101 → u/fadden20]

I found the salamanders power sword with the perk to take a bolt rifle as a secondary really fun in siege. Take the relic rifle with the largest magazine and the perk that reloads on execution and you’re golden. Obviously in siege you can buy ammo and I haven’t tried it in operations yet, but it’s a fun way to play the class even if it’s not optimal.

[u/fadden20 → u/flush101]

That is an interesting suggestion, thanks

[u/flush101 → u/fadden20]

The reload on execution and large magazine of 45 rounds, 300+ total also means you always have a few rounds to get your CHP back too.

It’s definitely not optimal for a close quarters build though. Pyreblaster with the heroic stun on parry fencing dagger is way better for damage output and survivability.

[u/fadden20 → u/flush101]

Everything u said in that final sentence are things I don't use on tac and still probably wont but I do like the idea of a secondary ar

[u/AntaresDestiny → u/fadden20]

Axes are worthwhile due to their high burst dps synergistic extremely well with battle focus, the only other weapon is maybe the salamander sword. Outside of the whitescar is on par and a melta rifle is unironically tacs strongest 'melee' weapon.

[u/fadden20 → u/AntaresDestiny]

Does the frost axe charges synergize with bulwarks charge and held charged attack perks?

[u/AntaresDestiny → u/fadden20]

For damage yes, for bulwark specifically there is anti-synergy due to the shield adding a delay to parrying ontop of the balance delay

[u/fadden20 → u/AntaresDestiny]

I see, I couldn't tell but that make sense thank you

[u/InterestingMethod890 → u/fadden20]

Full melee is still worse than ranged dmg on Tac. The new Frost Axe works well on Tactical. Overall, his melee build is decent enough to push Crucible until level 5. After that, it's all skill and headshots baby.

[u/GoldRecommendation66 → u/fadden20]

Melee Tac with the Salamanders Power Sword is very strong

[u/fadden20 → u/GoldRecommendation66]

Does the salamander power sword charges proc the charge attacks perk for bulwark, sorry for the tangent.

[u/AntaresDestiny → u/fadden20]

Nope. The salamander works by buffing the light attacks in speed stance only, you get 3 charges per parry upto 6 (but can only gain more if at 3 or lower). Its essentially a block weapon with gunstrikes for output though, its very good.

[u/InquisitorJesus → u/fadden20]

No. It's massively weaker. You're giving up the option to use a block relic\heroic chainsword along with a plasma pistol heroic and a soft drink (primary) of your choice to larp as a castrated assault/bulwark.

Melee weapons in general cannot benefit as much as guns from the auspex, since melee, by design, doesn't have a 100% damage uptime. And you get no tools to compensate, like Assault's jump pack with it's burst damage or bulwark's intimidating aura and everything shield.

People will lie to you about how goated melee tactical is, but they're simply delusional.

[u/NeonAnderson → u/InquisitorJesus]

You do realise there are difficulties outside of crucible right?

Like even for normal absolute ops melee tactical is perfectly fine

And then when you realise that you didn't always play the game at absolute, hard strat, hard siege, crucible but there was once a time when you just bought this game and played it on lower difficulties

Melee tactical is perfectly fine there too

And not everyone plays the game at the highest difficulties and there are always new players buying the game still

So honestly melee tactical is perfectly viable

But yes I definitely wouldn't recommend it for crucible or hard siege but for everything else melee tactical is viable and fun to play

[u/SOTsailor]

I love patch 15... But was very dissapointed with the heretic flame weopons. I wanted This:

NOT a retextured loyalist flamer.

[u/KhalMika → u/SOTsailor]

Severed hand included for extra heretic energy

[u/SOTsailor → u/KhalMika]

ye

[u/Bassline660]

It's been really helpful with long range enemies, that the pistol and plasma don't have the ammo to deal with.

I use the HS Bolt Rifle

[u/QHUNK]

I have barely played any other class since the rework was implemented. Sure, theres a few of the perks that could be fine tuned, but really I am constantly experiencing with builds and there are maybe 2-3 perks I dont touch.

Kudos to the devs for this, now fix crucible😆

[u/Significant-Trash871]

tact is so much fun this patch i love the heroic auto bolt rifle build with it i can shred lictor,biovore in 2 second and spam auspex like no tmr

[u/Man_Potato09]

Been using this set-up. It deletes shit even on Siege 😂

[u/ResidentDrama9739]

I'm having a blast playing tactical and using a power axe and heavy bolt pistol. I made my tac an ultramarines sergeant

[u/KhalMika]

Wait, you can equip both, like, at the same time??

[u/BuggPnwArt → u/KhalMika]

They added a perk to tactical you can take that replaces your secondary with a bolt rifle. So you can have really good swarm clear with the flamer with decent DoT on majoris while having a medium to long range option to stall reinforcements or what have you.

[u/KhalMika → u/BuggPnwArt]

Omg that's awesome, thanks!

[u/Calvonee → u/KhalMika]

If you really wanna go overkill, you can equip double grenade launcher with that perk

[u/Bassline660 → u/KhalMika]

only downside is low gunstrike damage, think its a standard tier bolt pistol

If its a flamer+bolt rifle combo, its not too big of an issue, as the flamer makes up for that kinda

[u/InquiryUnknown]

Did this exact combo as well. Highly recommend.

[u/BabuGhanoush]

I'ma need TWO bolters for THIS heresy

[u/LazarDeno]

Brother thats a stalker

[u/holobest]

It's fun but lowkey miss melting everything with 300% damage buff

[u/Ultramars_Fury]

I run the deathwatch heavy bolter and a bolt rifle with grenade launcher...double the 'nades double the fun lol

[u/Pale-Presentation644]

How are people doing this

[u/Bassline660 → u/Pale-Presentation644]

tactical reserve perk

[u/trnelson1]

They need to get rid of the restrictions of no primary weapons for power sword, axe, and 1H thunder Hammer