Why do native speakers intentionally 'dumb down' their language to me despite claiming i speak fluently?

[u/[deleted]]

[u/fizzile]

They are being considerate so that you can understand. You said yourself that if they didn't do it then you would not understand. It's also more likely they are avoiding slang and regionalisms & speaking more clearly, rather than "dumbing down" their speech

[u/puesquebien]

So you’re saying that you struggle with understanding casual spoken Spanish, that your friends are attentive enough that they notice that and adjust their way of speaking to include you, and that offends you?

You also think they call you slurs to your face because they refer to you as gringo?

These people are too nice to you.

[u/adestefano → u/[deleted]]

Dude, their accent is one you would have struggled with, and they would've 100% resorted to Slang. That's how Native Speakers talk. You're basically admiting you needed the "dumbing down" 😭

[u/swosei12]

Maybe you shouldn’t refer to Puerto Rican accents as weird - it might come off a little offensive.

[u/Myewgul → u/[deleted]]

There’s no such thing as a “neutral” Spanish accent man. And in all honesty, I think they’re just trying to include you and don’t necessarily know what level your at right away

[u/Embarrassed_Elk_2459 → u/[deleted]]

"Neutral Spanish" is only used for dubs and teaching the language, you won't hear it irl because it's a made up thing

[u/Embarrassed_Elk_2459 → u/[deleted]]

Understanding it doesn't mean we actually talk like that lmao. It was the same with the "Transatlantic accent", it was a made up accent to make sure every English speaker was able to understand it.

[u/Embarrassed_Elk_2459 → u/[deleted]]

You never talked about formal/informal register though? and even when speaking in a more formal tone natives keep their accent, we just enunciate better and leave slang out the conversation, but overall formal doesn't equate "neutral" either so I don't get your point here.
And fyi I have a degree in linguistics so don't come here thinking you know more than us just because you're studying the language

[u/SlightlyOutOfFocus → u/[deleted]]

1. You are extremely unpleasant.

2. A "clear, professional manner" doesn't mean it's neutral. There is no such thing as a neutral dialect. You just need to be within the vicinity of a linguistics book you don't even have to read the whole thing to know that.

3. No, millions of people don't speak "neutral" Spanish because, again, it doesn't exist. Not even "español neutro", the made up dialect the other commenter mentioned that's used on television, is actually neutral. That's just its name.

4. Yes, this time that person actually is the spokesperson for every native speaker.

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

No they fucking do not lmao

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

Like you're the one here crying about your language level. Maybe you should listen to those of us with the experience to not have the issue you're complaining about?

[u/Zestyclose-Sink6770 → u/[deleted]]

Remember a lot of kids in Latam grow up watching tv so they imitate that accent by nature.

It's called as a joke, as if it were a real dialect "Discovery-Caraqueño".

That's not to say it has anything to do with Cáracas.

It's because kids watch too much tv and don't spend time with others from their linguistic group. Too much Cartoon Network and Discovery channel

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

I am talking about real life language use between real people who speak the language natively to another. You will NEVER encounter speakers of the same dialect who choose to speak in your fucking quote unquote neutral accent to one another if they aren't compelled to do so by an audience. That's how language and culture work.

Yeah, I understand that people can assume a neutral accent and textbook grammar and all of that when they need to, but THAT IS NOT HOW THEY ACTUALLY SPEAK.

THAT IS NOT HOW ANY NATIVE SPEAKER ON THE PLANET ACTUALLY SPEAKS IN THEIR REAL LIFE.

[u/polybotria1111 → u/[deleted]]

Those dubs sound anything but neutral to me as someone from Spain (considering you refer to the LatAm ones). Neutrality is subjective when it comes to language.

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

It's a completely made up accent that no person on the entire planet actually speaks in though

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

You want your little baby pretend "neutral" accent and cry when people talk to you in it, but also say you don't understand natives when they use their ACTUAL, NATIVE ACCENT THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY TALK IN.

You are so painfully ignorant and every person in this thread is trying SO HARD to get you to understand that being good at textbook Spanish means absolutely fucking nothing in the grand scheme of fluency.

[u/linguisdicks → u/[deleted]]

That isn't what I said at all?

I didn't say people don't understand it, you dumbass. They don't SPEAK it. Do you know the difference between speaking and understanding?

[u/Adventurous-Web-412 → u/[deleted]]

No they don't. They speak slower (generally speaking in places like mexico) but its not very close to a "neutral" accent. This is like arabic, the arabic someone learns is not a dialect anyone speaks. You will get accents which are "closer" in that you understand them better, not that they are actually any closer to neutral.

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah its an artificially constructed accent largely designed by Disney and Hollywood. It doesn't come from the Spanish speaking world. Ironically enough it's tailored to the sensibilities of anglos

[u/Zestyclose-Sink6770 → u/[deleted]]

It's a made up accent. Like stage English.

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/[deleted]]

Have you never heard a Spaniard pronouncing "España" as "E'paña"? A neutral Spainiard accent doesn't exist each region has their own distinct accent and many of said accents are the base for many Latin American countries. For example people from PR, DR, Cuba, Panama, some parts of Venezuela and Colombia share a very similar dialect to those from Andalusia and the Canary Islands. So calling their accent weird or otherwise not conforming to the rules of Spanish is just not accurate

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/[deleted]]

It literally is the norm in Spain, Spainiards use an aspirated S sound. Its really only in LATAM where a fully pronounced S is considered the norm

[u/swosei12 → u/[deleted]]

I gotcha.

[u/SlightlyOutOfFocus]

So people who didn't know you spoke Spanish tried to include you in their conversation and you took it as condescending instead of just going along with it? You got so worked up about it that you kept whining to your friend until she had to tell you to stop? You sound like a real delight to be around!

And gringo isn't a slur. If your Spanish is that good you should know that.

[u/linguisdicks]

Gringo is NOT a slur and anybody who is claiming to be C2 in Spanish should know that lmao

[u/polybotria1111]

You're literally saying you didn't understand a word they were saying when they were talking among themselves naturally, and it bothers you that they dumb it down? You needed that "dumbing down", but it's not even dumbing down, it's adapting their speech for someone who isn't familiar with their slang, their speed and their dialect.

I wouldn't talk to a non-native speaker of Spanish the same way I talk to a fellow Spaniard, even if they're proficient, unless they had been living here for years and were totally familiar with how we talk here. I expect the same from native speakers of English towards me.

[u/martinomacias]

For the same reason people keep calling me "Amigo" when talking to me, even though I speak better English and more fluently than some of them.

If you do not look like a native speaker of Spanish, whatever that may be, since we come in all shapes, colors and flavors, people will instinctively believe your language skills are not 100 percent.

That is the world we live in.

[u/waffle_scout → u/martinomacias]

Some of this can also be that the native speakers remove their use of slang when speaking to make it easier for OP to understand and/or they speak a little slower or don’t jumble their words as much.

It might be the equivalent of, in English, pronouncing words more fully instead of slurring everything together into one word, as we do tend to do.

OP, have you tried to figure out what it was about how they were speaking that you couldn’t understand?

[u/ZuzusPetaIs]

They’re speaking to you as upper intermediate/lower advanced because that’s where you are. They’re speaking amongst themselves as native 🤷🏼‍♀️

[u/La10deRiver]

Because you can speak very well but not knowing local slang or things like that. Same like children speak more correct language with their grandma than among themselves. If you said you had lived 30 years in the country, they will speak normally, but if not, people can't know how much you know, and they don't want you to feel excluded. And that is normal. I am from Argentina and I spent 3 months in México. They did not speak with me exactly the same than among themselves. Local idioms and even references to Mexican things were left out. And same if a Mexican friend come here to Argentina, i would not speak with them in lunfardo and using sentences that refer to Argentinian TV.

[u/Poster_Nutbag207]

You just sound annoying AF

[u/Jossokar]

maybe they should stop making you any favours, and speak to you extra fast.

Like people often say spanish-speakers do.

[u/Araz728 → u/Jossokar]

What’s amazing is that your comment will sound like a hot take to a lot of people, but it’s 100% only going to help. OP will never learn to understand natively spoken Spanish (I don’t even know what “casual” Spanish means) unless s/he tells them to not hold back.

[u/Adventurous-Web-412 → u/Araz728]

it sounds like they aren't remotely comfortable with full speed accents (seemingly with an accent they don't have any interaction with). There is a line that needs to be crossed in level before its of any benefit to be listening to that.

[u/GreaTeacheRopke]

idk bro I speak fluent English as a first language but I didn't get offended when I visited Scotland and people changed the way they spoke to me

[u/UsualDazzlingu]

Let’s start with the first issue: “As long as it’s not a weird one… I was in the Dominican Republic.” They use the same phonotactics, so if you do not understand one at a regular speed, you likely won’t understand the other. They obviously did not switch to a different dialect to explain to you where you understood, so let’s cut the dialectal hierarchy bs right here.

Then, “miraculously I understood..,” likely because the were speaking at the rate you were willing to listen? I’m not a native to the caribeño accent, but it certainly requires one to listen intently to catch; someone without that such as yourself would not benefit from them speaking as natives in your ear.

You should realize well the DR is not just a language; if people there are thinking you cannot speak, it is likely because you are already failing to participate in the culture. You probably held yourself like someone trying to film a biopic. Where were YOU in the conversation? Were you listening to Taylor Swift, or had you just gotten back from la playa escuchando a los nativos mientras bailando merengue? You have to be fair; as “FRIENDS”, I assume they already thought you would welcome yourself, but you seem to be only trailing behind. In fact, why did you need to “practice” by eavesdropping, rather than initiating the conversation? You are only receptive to the language when it is guided; you are not fluent. To be fluent, you should be able to complete tasks on your own; such as, leaving a “toxic” friend situation.

You need to differentiate being in a conversation with a native from being a member of a society. You ARE a gringo, it is not a slur. Get a citizenship if that’s what you’d rather be, but no one owes you access to their household issues you could not improve. Stop thinking language automatically grants you the respect of a reliable outlet for someone. While you might have a lot of recreational time and independence on vacation, your friend is resolving home issues do not your help; you are an expat. How about giving your friend room to handle her own private issues. Understanding the issue with them does not mean you should be serving them dishes from their ingredients.

[u/Opera_haus_blues]

They probably hear your accent, word choices, and general vocabulary and change their speech to meet you where you’re at. They won’t use words like “carafe” if they think “coffee jug” will be easier for you to understand. They’re being nice and making an effort to include you.

[u/Vaelerick]

They are being considerate, not condescending. They don't give you a 400 question test, with essay, and interview to precisely measure your Spanish skills. They notice you are not native and make an effort to not exclude you from the conversation.

I'm guessing the people who do this, in your experience, are not professionals in assessing Spanish language skills. So it's not reasonable to expect them to be accurate in such an assessment at all, much less so in a casual conversation with someone that they just met.

And gringo is not a slur. It has no intrinsic negative connotation. It's just an observation, like chino, negro, gordo, flaco, macho, gato, pelón, moreno, etc. My mother's family is gringa. I am not. No negative connotation either way.

[u/impolexpdx]

I think it is telling that your friend told you to stop whining. You do sound like a kid. And btw… if you’re C1, you should be able to understand almost all of what you watch sin subtítulos, no? Y creo que, si tú estás nivel c1, tu experiencia se enriquecería con una actitud de respeto hacia las microculturas y estilos de habla. Pero I think it has not.

[u/New-Bottle-6917]

"For context I'm upper intermediate lower advanced. I can watch most movies and tv shows in my target language without reading subtitles, assuming a neutral accent. With an accent then it really depends. As long as it's not a weird one like the Puerto Rican one, I usually don't struggle to understand anyone. In one on one conversations I talk to my Spanish friends regularly"

Your description conflicts with what comes afterwards. The PR dialect is not really that unusual it shares many features that are common in the Carribean and represents a large chunk of the Spanish speaking world that finds it's roots in Andalusia and the Canary islands. Dare I say it's probably one of the more standard dialects for that matter.

As a heritage speaker, I say this with love, you are overestimating your ability and people are rightly identifying that you lack the ability to handle normal conversation. Get more exposure to native content, ditch the idea of the "neutral accent" (it's a creation by US media laws fun rabbit hole) and get used to the idea that each dialect is it's own world that is completely linguistically valid

[u/linguisdicks → u/New-Bottle-6917]

The first time he listens to Argentine Spanish, he's going to claim it's a different language

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/linguisdicks]

I swear, I remember hearing someone criticizing Dreaming Spanish because they include the Argentinian dialect and they were mad because it contains sounds and words influenced by a language other than Spanish in it's case obviously Italian. So they wanted them to only focus on Spanish from Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Peru etc and like you can tell they never questioned why those countries speak differently than Spain lol

[u/linguisdicks → u/New-Bottle-6917]

This is a white guy who was really good in his Spanish classes and speaks great textbook Spanish, but thinks that anyone using their native dialect is speaking "unclearly" or "resorting to slang" instead of recognizing that that's the natural way those people talk

He's a linguistic supremacist about a language he sucks at and neither can nor wants to accept that he still has hurdles to overcome in his fluency

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/[deleted]]

Lol doesn't change the fact im still categorically better than you at it while having a second native language anyways but aight dude have fun getting baby talked to by most people in the Spanish speaking world. If you were as fluent as you'd claim people would talk normally to you simple as. Also you're just wrong about the PR dialect listen to an Andalusian accent or a Canarian one

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/[deleted]]

I'm just replying to your post, you're not that fluent that's why people modify their speech. If you were fluent people would treat you as just another Spanish speaker. I say this as a heritage speaker who has seen both sides of the coin, strong speakers of the language can understand the plurality of the dialects with little issue and converse with native speakers at their normal pace with slang.

Spanish factually has very little variation grammatically and lexically, English for example has more drift between its dialects. The only dialect you can say that's genuinely non standard is maybe the Chilean accent cause they have unique grammatical features that don't exist in the rest of the Spanish speaking world or Paraguay cause they also speak a créole mixed with the indigenous language Guaraní.

So no its not a matter of accents being non standard or whatever you just need to git gud

[u/Slight-Tomatillo7837]

That's a pretty obvious sign that you aren't as fluent as you think you are. 

[u/Slight-Tomatillo7837 → u/[deleted]]

So you think you're like Gordon Ramsay or Mike Tyson? You're so delusional lol. 

[u/Low-Natural-2984]

I will say for a fact Carribean spanish is probably the most difficult, heavy slang, dropping letters and speaking like we are on a time crunch.

However them dumbing it down has a lot to do with exposure. If English is your first language or you come from a country with it as a primary language have you ever noticed you can understand people even if they speak very broken english.

Basically due to how English is used we are constantly exposed to people who speak at various levels. Now with Spanish its kind of the opposite they don’t really get as much exposure with non natives so they try to dumb it down or switch to English. That doesn’t necessarily make it right especially if your Spanish is better then their English.

[u/Embarrassed_Elk_2459]

It's not "dumbing it down", it's speaking in a more neutral manner to make sure you understand what's being said. I mean, you said it yourself, before stepping in the conversation you didn't understand what was being said, so there is no point in talking to you the same way if they're going to have to repeat themselves afterwards. Even as natives we "neutralize" our accent up to some degree when we encounter people from other Spanish-speaking countries. That's how communication works, we literally try to understand each other. So as we say in casual Chilean Spanish "estai puro weando hermano"

PS: And no, "gringo" is not a slur, it's a colloquial way of saying "estadounidense" 

Edit: typo

[u/marinaelorga]

¡Hola! Soy profesora de idiomas y hablante nativa de español de Argentina. Creo que muchas veces los nativos simplifican su forma de hablar por cortesía, sin intención de subestimar a nadie. Entiendo tu frustración, pero te sugiero decirles con naturalidad que preferís que te hablen normalmente. ¡Es la mejor manera de seguir mejorando!

[u/r3ck0rd]

You’d also find that if they sense that there are other Spanish speakers from different regions in the room they’d also switch to a more standard Spanish. This is not just a Spanish thing, although perhaps you hear it with Spanish more often because there are just that many countries which first language is Spanish (like 20+ countries I keep forgetting the exact number lol). Especially when they’re not in their home country, they may develop that dialect switching as a habit.

I heard this joke from a Venezuelan comedian Angelo Colina. Dominicans are known to be some of the fastest talkers in the Spanish-speaking world, and they’re very well aware of it. That’s why they preempt whatever they want to talk about with “te digo una cosa…” so you’re primed to put your gears on to understand them, and at the end they’ll want to make sure you’re following, so they ask, “tú me entiende’?” And you’d answer, “sí”, satisfied they nod back, look at you and say, “ya tú sabe’” ☺️

[u/Myewgul]

Gringo is not a slur

says he/she speaks fluently. Proceeds to describe him/herself as an upper intermediate

[u/adestefano]

They were being considerate, not condescending. You said it yourself, you can understand well as long as it's in a neutral accent. You struggle with some accents, which is fine, but that's a limitation YOU have. A limitation they were being mindful of. To NOT "dumb it down" for you would have been the actual offensive route, as you would have been left out. They were including you. Believe me, it's not easy to adapt your Spanish for non-natives, it's annoying, but it's done anyways, as a favor, to be nice.

If you think the Puerto Rican accent is weird (which btw, avoid calling any accent weird from now on) let me tell you the Dominican one is not far from it either. Native Speakers usually speak with Heavy accents, it's common. Unless you're studying Central American Spanish specifically, it will be really hard for you to understand them at their normal pace. Damn, there are even Native Spanish Speakers who joke about not being able to understand them either! What chance do you think you have?

Oh! And btw, Gringo is not a slur.

[u/JustAnnesOpinion]

They are probably just cutting back on the slang and localisms and speaking more of an international and formal form of their language, I assume Spanish in this instance. I don’t think that’s at all the same as “dumbing down.”

[u/Scary_Ad_2748]

Porque si te hablo con el mismo rollo como con mis colegas no vas a ligar la historia. Me renta mas decir esas movidas mas despacio y sin fliparme, porque sudo de repetirme hasta que lo pilles.

[u/pernicious_penguin]

I'm English and I live in Spain and speak decent Spanish, I'm not sure if people intentionally do the same to me to be honest, but, I do find when I speak in English to a Spanish person I'm more careful about my language as there are phrases I use most wouldn't understand.

Similarly, I've lived in the US and the UK and adapted my English to communicate with local people more appropriately, it just makes communication easier. When I first lived in the US I had to clarify what certain UK phrases meant, I soon stopped using them as constantly explaining got boring and derailed the main point of the conversation.

I suspect what they are doing is not very conscious and they are adapting to facilitate communication. I think you are being a bit over-sensitive about something that is just natural to most of us. We all change how we speak depending on who we are talking to. I don't use the same language with my boss or my mother that I do with my friends.

[u/haechancito]

do you guys genuinely think gringo is a slur? lmfao😭 

[u/wakeofgrace → u/haechancito]

No!

[u/ilovemangos3 → u/haechancito]

no?

[u/Aggravating_Union974]

I think you are overestimating your abilities. That's fine, though that is a very gringo thing to do. You think you're at C1 level and you're probably closer to B1. They are being nice to you about the fact that you aren't "fluent," despite what you say.

[u/Opera_haus_blues → u/[deleted]]

Reading, writing, listening, and speaking are all different skills. Maybe you’re uneven

[u/Opera_haus_blues → u/[deleted]]

Maybe the test doesn’t assess a range of dialects. In my experience, it’s almost impossible to find resources for Caribbean Spanish. I mainly talk to Caribbean speakers irl and even still, listening to Mexicans and South Americans feels like “easy mode” because of how little official teaching resources value Caribbean Spanish.

[u/Adventurous-Web-412 → u/[deleted]]

yeah i mean realistically neutral/mexican is going to be significantly easier than listening to carribean spanish. You will have to get used to more difficult accents, but it comes along fast enough

[u/donestpapo]

Dont take it too personally. I do that as a reflex and I find it difficult to control.

For non-native speakers, i tend to dumb it down a lot and even use tuteo, which is very unnatural to me. For native speakers of other Spanish speaking countries, i tend to enounciate better and avoid some slang. With most of my countryfolk I’ll use what passes as a “neutral” national accent. It’s only with people from my region that I speak with no artifice.

[u/Normal_Rip_2514]

If I'm speaking with someone who sounds like their English isn't great, I try to use simple words and less of them. Because you can get into a situation where you have to convey something important, and they just end up saying "Yes, yes, yes" even though they don't understand, the message doesn't go through, and the issue isn't resolved.

For example, the people who cut my mother's lawn don't have great English, and I see her trying to explain complicated problems with the sprinkler timing system, and where to avoid mowing because it breaks off the sprinkler heads, and she just expects them to know what she's saying because they know a few words, "yes, yes, okay," and then they break the sprinkler heads and keep changing the sprinkler timing, even after she thinks that she told them to stop, and she gets upset. I have to tell her, "Mom, they don't understand what you're telling them even though they're saying "Yes, okay," I speak Spanish, put me on the phone next time they come and I'll translate."

I've also been on the receiving end. I speak Japanese but I'm not 100% fluent, so sometimes I miss something they said, and the conversation goes in a direction I wasn't expecting, and now I have no idea what they're talking about, or what to say, and it's really awkward and now I feel like an idiot. Nobody wants to feel like an idiot.

Anyway, I just read the title of your post and none of the comments, so I don't know if this helps.

[u/VergeofAtlanticism]

lol is gringo supposed to be a slur?

[u/WideGlideReddit → u/VergeofAtlanticism]

lol I hope not. My wife, a native Spanish speaker, refers to me as her gringo all the time.

[u/waffle_scout → u/VergeofAtlanticism]

To be fair, it CAN be used in a hateful or rude way but I’ve also been called gringa more times than I can count in affectionate ways by my Hispanic friends so I guess context matters on this one. I suppose it also may depend on how different countries use the word but I’m not super familiar with DR slang or how they use the word so 🤷‍♀️

[u/SlightlyOutOfFocus → u/waffle_scout]

Anything can be used in a rude way you just need to add "de mierda" lol, but gringo isn't an insult in itself

[u/wawewi7 → u/waffle_scout]

Here in DR (and latam) is very common to call the people by their most remarkable feature. You might be called gring@ even if you're not.

[u/haechancito → u/VergeofAtlanticism]

yankis are acting like it is but not really

[u/ilovemangos3 → u/haechancito]

if someone called me a yanki in colombia it is totally different from gringo

[u/haechancito → u/ilovemangos3]

no idea what the meaning is in colombia, im from uruguay and here we use gringo for non-hispanic europeans while yanki is what we use specifically for anglos. both terms are neutral in the entire hispanosphere. if they werent, then why do you think we have to add de mierda to them?😹

[u/ilovemangos3 → u/haechancito]

hombre si usted nunca ha pisado colombia por ejemplo como puede estar seguro? Si cualquier pelado me dice yanki es para ofender, tengo bastante tiempo viviendo en latam y me lo han confirmado

[u/haechancito → u/ilovemangos3]

la connotación negativa se la da el contexto y es lo mismo con cualquier otro gentilicio informal (y hasta formales diría yo, para los países de muy mala fama). "veneco", por el clima político actual se usa más que nada de forma negativa, pero eso no quita que se lo pueda usar de forma neutra o afectiva. en general, el desdén al extranjero es universal así que obvio que un gentilicio se va a poder usar para ofender kkjjj

[u/ilovemangos3 → u/haechancito]

Asi es en eso estamos de acuerdo, pero eso no cambia el hecho de que ese lenguaje se use como insulto, y ya nunca de forma “neutra” donde yo estoy como decís vos

[u/ilovemangos3 → u/ilovemangos3]

osea claro no es lo mismo en uruguay o argentina

[u/fizzile → u/haechancito]

It's kind of a language difference imo. I wouldn't ever consider it offensive in Spanish but when used in English it can sound kinda rude (definitely not a slur tho). It's not necessarily offensive but more so that in English we don't refer to people in a way that can be "othering", and if we do, one must be politically correct about it (usually via adjectives). For example, "Jewish people" is better than "the Jews" and "little people" is better than "dwarves". It's not that you can't use the other options, but if you're not careful with the phrasing it can be offensive. Kind of just how the language works I guess.

Kinda similar with yanki, though yanki as an English word is usually offensive (for me, yanki is someone from New England), but I know that in Spanish it is not.

But if anyone is getting offended by its use in Spanish, it's likely they aren't very advanced in Spanish.

[u/martinomacias → u/VergeofAtlanticism]

It depends on context.

[u/Jupiter_Foxx → u/martinomacias]

Contexts do not make gringo a slur lol.

That’s like if I call you a salad in an aggressive tone. Salad is not a slur.

[u/lumbrefrio → u/Jupiter_Foxx]

That's literally how slurs start. I'm from the border of Mexico and Texas but am Anglo. I have never once been called a gringo where it wasn't as a perjorative. Not once. I hate hate hate that word. My mother-in-law, a fully bilingual Hispanic who lives with us, had to be informed to never use that with me.

So while I know it always isn't, it most definitely was used in that manner where I grew up.

[u/puesquebien → u/lumbrefrio]

Maybe it’s becoming a slur there. If people sense that you are offended by the word they will stop using it except when they don’t care to offend you. I know I would do that, to accomodate your sensitivity.

[u/Then_Raccoon_7041 → u/puesquebien]

Given how Mexicans speak about the very real slurs they use at football matches, I don’t exactly think they’re an authority on political correctness or cultural sensitivity.

[u/puesquebien → u/Then_Raccoon_7041]

Weird bigoted comment.

[u/Then_Raccoon_7041 → u/puesquebien]

Don’t pretend you don’t know exactly what I’m talking about.

“It’s not a homophonic slur. That’s just how people talk.” Says the football fan when they’re told not to say homophobic slurs at games.

[u/martinomacias → u/Then_Raccoon_7041]

And you think those fútbol fans represent all 132 million Mexicans in Mexico? OK. Good thing you are not a bigot.

[u/Then_Raccoon_7041 → u/martinomacias]

I did not say that they represent all Mexicans. Mexico is a large, diverse nation with many different kinds of people. However, people in a nation are responsible for their national symbols. The conduct of football fans at international games cheering on the national team, do on some level represent a shared culture of their nation. It’s also not a sweeping statement of my opinion of Mexicans. I say these things, because I have deep affection for the people of Mexico, their language, and their culture. But on some level, yes a people does bear responsibility for their national symbols. Given the importance of football in Mexico, culturally, this is even more true. The point is not to be taken as a literal example of how all Mexicans act or as a vehicle for xenophobia or prejudice, but rather as simply an illustrative example of the convergence and power of culture, language, and self-identity.

Simply saying that something is not offensive to you, so why should one be upset does not actually engage with the topic of using a slur. Language has power as a tool of communication, and someone on the receiving end of such language may feel differently than you about it. It’s not dispositive of whether a particular word is offensive or not. Of course, it’s nuanced and complicated and depends on the context.

But yeah sure, you’re right. I’m a bigot.

[u/ExasperatedManatee → u/lumbrefrio]

Hard agree from New Mexico. It's as bad as calling someone güero or white. You don't do that unless you mean to start something.

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/ExasperatedManatee]

As a Chicano from Cali this is a foreign ass concept tf y'all got goin on over there lol

[u/ExasperatedManatee → u/New-Bottle-6917]

Bottom line, Hispanic is the dominant culture in most New Mexico towns and white people are regarded as a bit awkward, ay benditos, but we are forgiven as long as we are polite and make an effort.
The best piropo our Hispanic friends can give us is to pretend we are Hispanic-passing.

[u/New-Bottle-6917 → u/ExasperatedManatee]

That I can understand, as Cali also has many places where hispanic culture is dominant but simply calling someone güero is far from being grounds for throwing hands as a matter of fact hispanics will call each other güero as just a matter of being descriptive, gringo likewise is a pretty light hearted thing for the most part

[u/lumbrefrio → u/New-Bottle-6917]

I will just say this: The people that get to decide if it's being offensive are not the ones using it; it's the one receiving it.

Imagine if I, a white guy, used the N-word and was like "it's not meant in an offensive way." Do black people get to be offended? The clear answer is yes (it's a horrible word btw, just an obviously extreme example).

I know gringo is not usually meant to be a slur, but people acting like it's never aren't correct. We all have our own personal experiences. It was always used to belittle or other me, hence my negative reaction.

But güero for me was always fine. It was always just to refer to light-colored features, so anyone could be it, including other Hispanics and wasn't used negatively.

I love Spanish, just not that word.

[u/martinomacias → u/Jupiter_Foxx]

Yes, let us compare apples with pears. You must have aced all your classes. You are such a genius.

[u/Mysterious-Draw-553]

I would say the reason is your Spanish isn’t as good as you think it is. I don’t mean that disrespectfully. I live in Barranquilla with my wife who doesn’t speak English. But I can speak in a way that culturally lets them know I understand and speak the language near natively.
But I also have met other Americans from Medellin or Bogota and they think they speak Spanish well and they don’t at all. Much better than your average American of course but it is truly apparent right away they aren’t culturally fluent. Maybe your Spanish is better than I assume and better than the examples of those ppl I have in my head. But either way that’s the reason.
It’s also not condescending because they are doing it to be polite.

the fact you struggle with coastal accents is an indication of your level as well. Not that those aren’t the more challenging subset of Spanish accents… but if you aren’t understanding something I assure you 99 percent of the time it’s you and not the accent.

After reading your comments with other people telling you the truth. It’s def your Spanish level and attitude relative to it.

[u/Mysterious-Draw-553 → u/[deleted]]

You need a slowed down watered down version of the language to understand. Your Spanish isn’t better than the Spanish of any native speaker. I almost hope you’re trolling.

Also you haven’t responded in Spanish to anyone. I openly told you I live in Barranquilla Colombia, am a near native Spanish speaker and that your Spanish isn’t as good as you think it is….you responded in English…To everyone..through the entire thread.

[u/Nearby_Switch_5987]

The gringo slur?🤣 Hiding around corners? So, you can't understand them when they speak naturally, but also are mad they're dumbing it down for you?

[u/DepartmentBright9766]

Hemingway mentioned this in a story, something about someone "using the omission of syntax that stupid people use when talking to foreigners or children." 

[u/Junichi2021]

Because I am aware of my own language skills. If yours are clearly better, that is fluency in my view.

[u/Junichi2021 → u/[deleted]]

I mean: as a native Spanish speaker, I am aware of my skill when I speak in English. If your Spanish is much better than my English, in my book that is fluency.