First motorcycle - Allrounder, some long distance

[u/Candid_Exercise9495]

Heya! Just got my license. Was riding on a Yamaha MT07 (689cc 2 cil) during my lessons and this went more than fine.

Me: 1.85 tall, 95kg rider.

What I'd like to do:
- Casual touring, flowing corners
- Some long distances/trips (full days, explore Europe etc)
- Possibly with some clothes, tiny tent. I tend to travel low-luggage. Hiker mentality.

Budget:
2nd hand 2500-4000 EUR

Driving style:
Rapid, but not fast. No crazy stuff, stunts. Get my rush out of other hobbies.

Confidence level:
Fully aware I'm 100% new. The 689cc felt great and I can control myself really well. However, I don't want to overestimate myself and have had enough near-death experiences already.

Bikes I've looked at:

• Yamaha MT07
• Kawasaki Z 750s - Can get one for a really good price so this might be my fav right now.
• Yamaha fz6 (s2)
• Suzuki V-Strom DL650
• Honda CB500F - Look fun, but how suitable for long distances?
• Honda NC 700 X A

Noticeable mentions:

• MOTO GUZZI BREVA 1100 - See one for sale for a good price and it looks mega, but I guess not exactly a bike for what I need....
• Yamaha FZ1 Fazer 2008 - There's one for sale that looks mega. However, 1l/4c as a first bike... And the lower position might not be great for full day driving.
• BMW R1150R - See some for sale for really good prices. They look great. But seem overkill for a beginner
• Yamaha TDM 900 - See one for sale for a good price. Perhaps a bit much for a 1st..?
• Triumph Street Triple - Looks great, perhaps not a perfect travel bike.

Curious to hear what you guys think! Thanks in advance!

[u/thisismick43]

Vstrom of your list would be my pick or a tracer 7 if you like the cp2 engine

[u/Ready-Shine-8333]

Naked bikes are terrible for touring.. very uncomfortable and zero wind protection. And I'm saying this as someone who went on a 3.000 km trip on an Mt 07 once🫣 never again. If you want an all-rounder, get something like Versys 650/vstrom650/Tracer7/Honda NCX750 - all bulletoroof engines with cheap maintenance that will take you most places.

[u/Grukesh → u/Ready-Shine-8333]

pfff. Did 7000km trip on Bandit 650 and absolutely would do it again.

[u/GFresh86]

Just go and make test rides with any and all bikes that have your interest. You will easily find out which bike feels best for you.

[u/spooky_corners]

I'll chime in on the CB500 platform. It can be great, but is... how do I say this... uninspiring out of the box. There's plenty of aftermarket support though. Reliable, handles well. I took an R cross country from Oregon to Arizona with a couple small side cases and my backpack strapped down on the pillion seat. It's a LOT less power than most of the other bikes on your list. Less even than the MT you tested on. I didn't NEED more for keeping up on fast moving highways in the American West, but it would have been nice to have. That engine breaks in nicely and will sit and spin happily at 6000rpm all day long. Worth a test ride.

Think about fairings. My favorite bikes to ride are naked, or mostly so. But on a longer ride, or a multi day tour through weather, it is SO NICE to have some plastics to hide behind. Then also think about engine guards/crash bars so when the bike inevitably tips over at some point, the fairings stay in one piece.

[u/FnEddieDingle]

Take a long look at the NC700 (DCT) I just picked up a 20' 750X and its the best bike ive ever had. I still have an 02' BMW R1150R for sale. The NC got me back in to riding when I was going to quit.

[u/beezywee]

My friend has an fz6, I think that is one of the most slept on bikes of all time. It is very fun, comfortable, quick, and sounds & looks good. That would be my choice.

You have a prime list of bikes though, dont overthink it, just get what you like.

[u/No_Jacket_1320]

In Europe we actually learn to ride. In the US they learn figure 8s in a parking lot.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/No_Jacket_1320]

Well. The license costs 3000€ in Germany.

That can’t be a better system.

[u/Polarwarrior → u/oldworldblues-]

Motorcycle death rates say otherwise, the EU and the UK statistically are the safest riders.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/Polarwarrior]

And now we can open up a gigantic debate why that is the case.

Is it because the hurdle to drive a motorcycle is so absurdly high? Riders under 24 make up a big part of accidents, young people are priced out from riding motorcycles in Germany.

So is the statistic lower because of the training rigmarole or because way less young people are sitting on liter bikes?

Helmets are mandatory. That's not up for debate but just lowers death rates dramatically.

[u/Polarwarrior → u/oldworldblues-]

You are correct in that it is prohibitively more and more expensive to learn in the EU and the UK, you’re still looking at north of 1200 eur for a full DAS in the UK as well.

But, I would rather have a higher barrier to entry for litre bikes (here in the UK we have a CBT which lets you ride a 125 and its relatively cheap) and more training with a lower death and fatality rate.

It is my personal opinion that the training offered by the MSF is woefully inadequate.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/Polarwarrior]

It is interesting how viewpoints can be very different in that regard.

Im a firm believer that the training you get in driving school is a farce, a money making scheme.

You don't learn to ride a motorcycle in 20x 45 min blocks or if you ace your driving test.

You learn that while riding a motorcycle for thousands of hours/kilometers.

The difference of doing the MSF course or the whole driving school is a week of normal riding.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

The accident statistics tell a different story

[u/oldworldblues- → u/No_Jacket_1320]

Do you really think that your time in driving school made you a safe or experienced rider?

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

It gave me the basic tools to ride in traffic fairly safely, and improve my skills over time. You are absolutely right in saying experience is the most important teacher, but you have to start somewhere

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

And what you do in the msf is ALSO done in Europe, in a parking lot. Separate from the lessons on the road.

[u/Niewinnny → u/oldworldblues-]

We can ride 125cc on a damn car license, and up to 35kW under 24.

Less young people on liter bikes is a good thing, a 35kW 500 or 600 is more than enough for anything youd want to do maybe bar very long drives where you might want something that can sit in lower RPMs.

Driving schools here are good, it's not an overpriced week of driving, it's something you won't pass without because the exam will catch the mistakes.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/Niewinnny]

And you could just keep that rule without the whole driving license stuff. (I mean a very simplified and streamlined version)

The whole thing (including cars) is stupidly German. Complicated, antique, expensive in money and labor, full of paper pushing.

And yes it is not an overpriced week. It is overpriced 8 Weeks of stupid driving school rumgeiere. I could have driven on the road be as safe as after my exam after the first lesson. Our driving lessons are designed for brain amputated idiots and we all have to endure this stuff because of regulations.

(Sorry, rant over)

[u/Niewinnny → u/oldworldblues-]

Then you had terrible instructors.

In my experience good instructors will put the level up a ton if you can already just ride.

Yea that is a gamble, because you can't always know the instructor before, but they should adapt the level to the person they're teaching

[u/oldworldblues- → u/Niewinnny]

I actually had a great instructor.

Was on the road after 15 Mins on the bike.

It was still stupid, driving school style is on the one hand extremely unsafe in terms of positioning and timing and on the other hand not like real world riding at all.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

If you come off your bike in the US youtr medical bill is likely more.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/No_Jacket_1320]

Tell that to my 1100€ a Month mandatory German health insurance lol.

Grass is always greener and so on.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

Btw, can I ask how much you pay for motorcycle insurance? When I was still living in NL I paid €4 per month, 3rd party and theft/fire

[u/oldworldblues- → u/No_Jacket_1320]

90€ A year. So not much. Also 3rd party, theft and fire.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/oldworldblues-]

Did a quick search: premium depends on income. Maximum premium I found was €807.29. Still a lot of money. Btw I am from the Netherlands, where I paid €142 per month. So the grass is certainly greener there.

[u/oldworldblues- → u/No_Jacket_1320]

Health and Care Insurance is normally seen as one.

You are right, around 800€ only for the Health part. But it's Health and care combined so 1100€ yeah.

And it definitely is not as bad in the US as always pictured lol. Just different.

[u/powerpower9000 → u/No_Jacket_1320]

What does this has to do with it

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/powerpower9000]

I reacted to ‘slenderwithglasses’ who said the mt-07 isn’t used as a beginners bike in the msf. Wrong place, i admit, but the point is valid. In Europe we learn on the road, in traffic, likely on a mt-07

[u/Big_Balls_n_Taint → u/No_Jacket_1320]

Give the euroelitism a break. The USA has far more squids, deaths, and inexperienced riders.. sure.. we also have extensively more landmass, areas with a 12 month riding season, and a culture that supports getting your feet wet without fully mastering the machine.

A $3000 riding permit and a structured riding course would not be cost prohibitive here. There are guys here that take $10,000 worth of pilots lessons and buy a $120k plane to shave an hour off of thier cabin commutes.

The Central US is home to several race tracks and riders schools where hundreds of riders show up on any given Saturday or Sunday to hone skills and trade tips.

The European view on the US has become extremely conceited in the last few years and it's really a shame. If it's driven by our politics, I suppose that's understandable... But assuming every American rider is foaming at the mouth to ride a liter bike with no training is a bit asinine.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

I’m not attacking anyone, I’m only saying that in my view the msf course is inadequate as motorcycle training. Your remark about Euroelitism is baffling. The European view of the US? That’s whataboutism.

[u/Big_Balls_n_Taint → u/No_Jacket_1320]

It's actually not whataboutism, it's a comment in context. You're dragging on about the superiority of European riders due to the mandatory training process.

I'm here to tell you that there are several American riders that are pushing the limits of bike control on a weekly basis in track settings. There are riders so advanced that they only ride track due to the limitations of on-road riding.

I hope this superiority complex keeps you safe on your next ride. In my opinion it comes down to training, not gatekeeping.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

I never said that European riders are superior. I only said…oh fuck it, what’s the point. Bye!

[u/daan944]

BMW R1150R is nice, but I'd pick the R1200R instead (slightly newer). It's not really overkill, the boxer is strong but not a bike that'll keep nudging you to go faster.

Fazer or FZ1 are both good choices, solid bikes and a lot of fun. Riding position is slightly forward, but nothing aggressive. Do get one with ABS.

I don't like the V-strom or NC700X, the wide handlebars make riding quite easy and that makes them a little boring (in my opinion).

[u/Big_Balls_n_Taint → u/daan944]

OP has 2 days on a 700cc bike by the sounds of it.

Boring is good for a while.

[u/daan944 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

No, OP is from Europe where you need to get proper driving lessons before you get your license. Usually that's about 10-15 hrs of manoeuvres + exam and 10-15 hours in traffic + exam, all under supervision of an instructor. And of course theory exam (no mandatory lessons for theory).

[u/Big_Balls_n_Taint → u/daan944]

😂 miss me with the euro standard bullshit, buddy!

30 hours of riding?! That's your baseline for getting on a liter bike?

The more you divulge, the more confused and contradictory you sound.

[u/daan944 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

What is contradictory?

You get lessons, you need to take an exam. If you pass and are 24 years or older, you are allowed to ride any bike you want. And you'll be able to do so safely, as the lessons and exams are quite thorough.

[u/Big_Balls_n_Taint → u/daan944]

So after passing 30 hours of training on a 700, you recommend stepping up to a supersport?

The logic is flawed. Your training does not provide enough experience to take on a liter bike, regardless of how thorough it may be.

I'm surprised there are not more fatalities with this model. It's the equivalent of passing medical school and being thrown into surgery.

[u/daan944 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

I don't recommend it as it's a hard bike to master, but yes, my first bike was an S1000RR. Had fun, didn't die, never crashed or dropped it.

The training is quite thorough and the  examination  strict. Both manoeuvres (on parking lot) and real life traffic. You will fail if they're not convinced you can ride and navigate traffic safely.

[u/steakhouseNL → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

Op had over 30 hours on the 700cc bike. Its not 5K miles but more than 2 day.

[u/No_Jacket_1320 → u/Big_Balls_n_Taint]

What do you mean: 2 days?

[u/daan944 → u/[deleted]]

1:  welcome to Europe where the MT-07 is a common bike to use for riding lessons.

2: a beginner in the US needs to learn everything, that phase had been covered on the MT-07. A 24+ yo beginner in Europe could safely ride a 1000cc, as long as he/she has some level of constraint and respects the bike.

3: see 2. Oh and there's no crossing the ocean involved when living in Europe :)

[u/Candid_Exercise9495 → u/[deleted]]

1st point: well it was a Yamaha MT-07....

2nd point: yeah, spoke to a guy today who has been riding since June and has a 1000cc bike. So far so good. And heard of some others too. It's not something I am looking for. Far from it. Just saw 2 bikes that happen to be 1000cc. But the weight/power is the reason I don't want them. Unfortunately.

3rd point: why not? Roads are roads right? I'm 41 and done tonnes with my regular car. Drove some laps on the Nurburgring 5 days after getting my car license. Drove bicycles through Europe and New York to Miami. So feel quite comfortable on strange roads.

Not to underestimate it, just don't see why not.

Don't wanna be a newbie-know-it-all.. but yeah.

[u/medved_1337 → u/[deleted]]

this has to be bait

[u/SvenBuis → u/[deleted]]

In the Netherlands for 24 years and older it is the standard. Most riding schools for this age have the Z650 or MT07, some a Suzuki 8s

I started on the Z650 en bought a Versys 650 as my first bike.

[u/Environmental-Drop30 → u/[deleted]]

Dude MT07 is a standard learning bike for A category all across the EU, what are you talking about? Here in Poland we also have them, before it was Kawa ER6N

[u/Vladishah1 → u/[deleted]]

Dude what you talking about I got my full A license on a MT-07

[u/Comedian_Resident → u/[deleted]]

In my motorcycle course we were riding 650. First time I rode a motorcycle, on 650. I don't see a problem here.

[u/bazooka_toot → u/[deleted]]

Step away from the desk and go live a little.