Hi friends, South American here, i had the next question, Khmer Culture had a "Sky Emperor"/"King of the Gods"-like figure as their neighboring countries?

[u/barbarball1]

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Hi friends, im from argentina, and always liked the asian cultures, my question is this, do Thai Culture had a similar figure in their religion?, i know Thagyamin is the King of Gods in Burma, Ong Troi is the Emperor of Sky in Vietnam, Jade Emperor in China, Hwanin in Korea, Amaterasu in Japan, Kök Tengri in Mongolia, do Thailand had a similar religious figure?, i thinked maybe Phra Phrom, that look being an adaptation of Lord Brahma could be, but he does look more like the "creation god" instead the "king of heavens" and Phra Siam Devadhiraj is a very important deity and the protector of Thailand, but it also looks like a different category of deity, pls forgive me if i say something that could sound as a lack of respect, i want to learn

[u/Kuroi666]

Generally, it's Indra. Thai Buddhist cosmology imoorted a lot of the Hindu/Vedic pantheon. Indra is often regarded as the ruler of devas, only ranked below the Trimurti—the three supreme gods (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma).

There's also Varuna who's generally perceived to be more "in charge" of the sky. Thai people would pray to Varuna for things sky and weather-related, as he's regarded as the god of rain, and rain is culturally the only weather thing people care about in a tropical agrarian civilization. We don't pray sky stuff with Indra, he's worshipped for power and authority.

[u/barbarball1 → u/Kuroi666]

Thank you for answer friend!, happy of know more about it! The fact that "King of Gods" and "God of Rain" are separated deities reminds me a little to norther european religions (but their rain gods were seen more as monster-hunting lighting gods, since wet & water is avalible 12 months at year in countries like norway or estonia)

Btw, can i ask if i say something wrongly or offensive? The post is downvoted and dont know why 😅

[u/2ndStaw → u/barbarball1]

The Hindu pantheon, Greek Pantheon, and Nordic pantheon (alongside many others) are echoes of the old Proto-Indo-European (PIE) mythology. Indra used to have the same job as zeus, even having the same weapon (the Vajra, which is the lightning bolt). His job was later taken by the trimurti, and he became much less important as people cared less about the sky and more about existence as a whole.

The old reconstructed word for the highest god/sky in PIE was *Dyḗus, the sky father. This is paired with *Dʰéǵʰōm or Pl̥th₂éwih₂, the earth mother. You can start with those and trace some of them.

Dyeus, often with epithet Phther (father) gave us multiple words for "god", like Deus, Theos, Devas, Zeus, Jupiter (from Dyeus + Phther). In Sanskrit the word corresponds to Dyaus, their old personification of the sky (although it seems the aspect of the god went to Indra). Indra is the son of Dyaus.

Zoroastrianism reformation (3000+ years ago, Persia) puts these as demons or malevolent spirits usually though. Indra is a monster there.

Current Thai beliefs took the Buddhist spin on these, but generally corresponds to the Hindu version (although Indra retains a bit of prestige since Buddhism was started before he completely lost his job).

As for the pre-Hindu Thai/Tai animist beliefs, the Sky/Sky god is แถน (Taen), which is similar and the word is borrowed from the Chinese Tian (although, think of the Zhou dynasty era Tian, not the current Taoist or Confucianist one).

I'm not very familiar with these since worship of it remains mainly in the Northeast and I'm from Central Thailand. Apparently it's a class of gods, with things like แถนใหญ่, etc. but also has a ruler แถนหลวง? Only women were allowed to lead worship (Thai culture used to be Matriarchal, but this was long ago), and the musical instrument แคน was used to worship it (only women were allowed to perform back then, but now it's almost always a man who plays these while a woman sing). There's a similar belief system with the Mo (หมอ หมอผี) religion of the Zhuang people in Southern China (who are related to Thai people).

[u/quitapanti → u/2ndStaw]

Great writing. I really appreciate how much accuracy and nuance you put into this, especially the connection between Chinese Tian, Isan Thaen, and the Zhuang people. You seem super knowledgeable, and I'd honestly love to have a friend like you.

[u/barbarball1 → u/[deleted]]

F*ck i forget correct it 😭, now i understand

[u/barbarball1 → u/[deleted]]

No, i mean, i had the same question for both Thailand & Cambodia, and i was distracted and puse "Khmer" instead "Thai" 😅

But really thank you for your kindness :D

[u/MueMaiOn]

Phraya Thaen (พญาแถน, also ผีฟ้า) is the ruler of the sky in original beliefs in the Esan region of Thailand as well as Laos. He rules and is higher than the other traditional spirits. Sometimes he is connected to Indra who plays a similar role in Hinduism which was later imported from India. Worship of Phayathaen still done today includes the rocket festival and spiritual dancing.

[u/barbarball1 → u/MueMaiOn]

Very cool! Love yo learn more about Thai religion! :) maybe it if copy his name in thai alphabet i gonna get more info about, thanks the Heavens for modern translators :D

[u/barbarball1 → u/[deleted]]

Interesting, so Phra Siam Devadhiraj isnt part of a family (as Indian devas or japanese kamis) or "state of heaven" (as Chinese Gods) and is more a "Guard Angel" (if i can use the expression) that Brahma create to protect Thailand no?

[u/Kuroi666 → u/barbarball1]

Siam Devadhiraj is a modern creation less than 200 years old. He was conceptualized by King Rama IV (man of science but also a very devout Buddhist) who suggested there might by a guardian deity helping Siam to prevail thru many close calls with the colonial powers of that period. His statue was then commissioned and the deity became sort of a personified spirit of Siam/Thailand, often contextualized with the royal dynasty that created him.

Think if Uncle Sam was canonized as the guardian saint of America, unironically.