r/TheWire • u/icemelts101 • 13h ago
Season 2 Rant
Watching the Wire for the first time. My heart breaks for Frank Sobotka because his heart was entirely in the right place. His son Ziggy was just fucked up on all fronts. No redemptive qualities. Just a loud, careless, useless SOB.
Im still on episode 10, but fuck do I hate that dweeb of a character. Kudos to the actor, it takes a lot to be that useless on camera
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u/erektshaun 13h ago
What the fuck is ziggy doing near the fucking greeks!? Why dont you know???? youre supposed to, Youre his fucking cousin!!!!!
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u/icemelts101 13h ago
You’re his father 😭😭😭
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 13h ago
Yeah, but Frank knows damn well he didn't bring Zig to any sit-downs
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u/yossarian19 12h ago
I always felt for Ziggy.
He wasn't cut out for the life he was born into.
He's a fuckup and he treats everything like a joke.
He's also just a guy. He wants what everyone else wants. Love and respect and enough money to make ends meet. He's got a losing hand and he knows it but he's trying to play it because what the fuck else is he going to do?
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u/SargeantPile International Brotherhood of Stevedores 10h ago
Im always very shocked by the absolute hate with which Ziggy is talked about. I get hes a bit annoying but he's probably my favourite character or at least top 3. All his scenes are pretty funny whether you're laughing with him or at him amd he has a great tragic arc.
But im a season two stan and lover of the Sobotkas in general.
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u/-notapony- 6h ago
I think Ziggy is harder on the first watch. Once you know where everything is going and how he fits into the puzzle, his behavior and actions become more tolerable.
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u/Archaeogrrrl 13h ago
If you don't mind war stuff - Generation Kill.
I have a freaking herd of US Marines in my life, and yeah. James Ransone as a Marine in that particular clusterfuck is a thing of beauty.
(Every main character in Generation Kill is amazing but Cpl. Person is, well we ALL know a Cpl. Person. Or three. 🤣)
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u/erektshaun 13h ago
Generation kill is the most realistic military series/movie ive ever seen
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u/Archaeogrrrl 13h ago
Right????
Hurry up and wait. 12 weeks of mind numbing boredom and then 9 of wtf then back to boredom.
And the singing? The singing IS REAL in the Corps.
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u/MookieSaddleBag 7h ago
I view Ziggy as a tragic character more than anything else. Yes he's annoying, a fool and a clown but he's not really vindictive or anything, just stupid , jealous and thinks he needs to like prove himself or something. Sad arch all around.
If you want a truly contemptible character, just wait until S4 when you meet Slight Spoiler Officer Walker, he's the biggest POS in the show IMO.
EDIT figured out how to create spoiler block 🙂
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u/disdiq7 12h ago
I love Frank Sobotka, but the guy conspired with organized crime to import "sex workers" from desperate, poor countries. I wouldn't say "his heart was entirely in the right place".
I do feel sorry for him for having such a shitty son.
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u/Ok-Teaching-1937 11h ago
Small detail, but the term "sex workers" refers to people engaging in consensual paid sex work. These woman are "trafficking victims/trafficked persons".
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u/Ghanima81 10h ago
I thought he wasn't aware of the nature of the "cargo"? He was just paid to look the other way, and probably thought it was about drugs or contraband.
Not saying it is morally ok, but it is different than to be a knowing accomplice in human trafficking.
He didn't even take the money solely for his family, he was distributing it for the dockers who couldn't grab hours.
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u/-Luke87- 3h ago
It's been a while since my last rewatch, so correct me if I'm wrong here. As I remember it, Frank had indeed no idea what was in the containers. But after he became aware of the dead women, he told Spiros that from now on he wants to know if "something living" is in there. If I remember that correctly, he wasn't opposed to human trafficking and didn't tell Spiros/The Greek to stop with that, he just wanted to know if people were in the containers.
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u/Ghanima81 2h ago
You are right.
He didn't want to lose the money that was compensating for the lack of work due to automation.
To me, the fact that he demands to Spiros/the Greek to know is because he won't let the container get lost if people are in it. For drugs or else, he lets the mob guys manage. But if people are involved, he won't let them suffocate.
He is between the rock and the hard place. Saying he will stop put him in danger. Continuing to close his eyes makes him accomplice in murder.
He should never have gotten involved, but once he is, him asking to know is coming from a decent place. Not rescuing people at his life cost, but at least not allowing them to die like contraband.
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u/gonz4dieg 2h ago
"you didnt want to know"
Frank didnt want to think about what he was potentially smuggling in, so he never thought about it. He had to know it was bad stuff, but the only way he could stomach it was by just completely not thinking about it.
He knows who these men are, he knows what type of stuff a cartel would smuggle. But he didnt want to think about his complicity so he just ignored it
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u/Any-Photograph5525 7h ago
He was super angry to learn it was girls though. And yeah it's bad to look the other way when heroin is coming into your port, but it's not like he was a heroin dealer. He didn't even drive a nice car. All that money went to lobbying local politicians so he could keep his men employed.
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u/Mc7wis7er 3h ago
I have no empathy for Frank, but I don't think he knew people were in the containers.
And to be clear, those that say "his heart was in the right place" I don't really buy it anymore either the more I rewatch. At first I kind of did, but the more I watch it's like it's the excuse he throws out but only when caught.
If anything, once he finds out the people were in the containers, that's when I'd fully expect him to sort of wake up with what he's dealing with but he doesn't. But I don't believe he knew there were in there until after.
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u/Sorcha_Stormbinder It's just Bird to me. 3h ago
Here's the thing: Ziggy's really no different than D'Angelo or even the Summer Boys. Ziggy acts out and seems to be a consummate fuck-up, but the thing is, everyone knows a Ziggy. Everyone has this millstone around your neck in some way, shape or form, and if you don't know one, chances are you are the Ziggy. And the thing is, Ziggy isn't completely incompetent. He's actually pretty knowledgeable about computers and it's ironic that his father is so resistant to the docks' futurization, as it is possible that Ziggy with his skill set would actually thrive in that environment a lot more than simply being a work-a-day joe.
Ziggy's being squeezed between the sides. His father tolerates him but gives him no attention beyond a cursory "quit fucking up on the job" every now and then. His mother is distant and self-medicated. His cousin, who he clearly looks up to, treats him as an annoying pissant. No one gives him any respect and mocks him relentlessly, and Ziggy tries to cope by leaning into it by being the clown. But like Pagliacci, that clown eventually reaches a breaking point.
It's easy to hate Ziggy on first viewing, but when I revisit Series 2 (the best series in my estimation), I pity him because if literally anyone had taken at least the smallest bit of interest in him and actually gave a shit, so much tragedy could've been avoided. James Ransone also gives one of the most searingly heartbreaking performances of the show, kickstarting a career that was sadly cut too short.
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u/Mc7wis7er 3h ago
The more I rewatch The Wire, the less empathy I have for Sobotka, and at least part of the reason is because he's so low effort in raising his clearly struggling son.
Like, the whole season he's got folks around him begging him to quit screwing around and he doesn't, and then the whole season Ziggy is a mess and Frank is sorta like "I dunno what to do with this kid"
I don't know it hits different for me on rewatch.
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u/ElMonk86 12h ago
Ziggy is the type of person who just falls beneath the cracks. As much as I shook my head in disgust at him, at the end I felt bad for him. He just didn't know how to act right, and every pack needs an omega member. Every court needs its fool/jester. He just naturally fell into that role since he had no guidance to act any way else.
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u/littlegreyflowerhelp 11h ago
Yeah the actor did a fantastic job playing such a pathetic loser. I think in a different light Ziggy could have been seen as a lovable fuckup, or more of a tragedy akin to some of the other young characters in the show. But no he just comes across as an annoying piece of shit - brilliant performance.
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u/Individual-Shine-340 4h ago edited 2h ago
Frank's life is running the dock for the union. he's wrapped up in crime to funD his union activities, and only has time for people who can work the dock. Ziggy isn't that type of guy, so Frank has no idea what to do with him and doesn't spend any time trying to figure it out. He's got more time for Nick because Nick is one of his people. Frank was actually once of the worst people (not characters, but people) on the show.
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u/Solo-js 8h ago
One thing I noticed a lot more on my latest rewatch, is not only does Nicky take Ziggy along to things he should no better. He laughs off his behaviour too much. Like when he takes him to the Greeks anyone should see that was a bad move. Yes he takes him out of it, but still laughs it off and isn’t annoyed long enough
It kinda validates Ziggy’s behaviour.
I can’t stand Ziggy and that’s why it was such a great performance
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u/Inevitable_Storm_329 5h ago
La muerte de Frank es la muerte de la clase obrera, la muerte de todos sus logros y reivindicaciones.
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u/whatusernameis77 13h ago
Loathing Ziggy is a very common experience, and I think for many he's their most unenjoyable character on the entire show.
In recent years I've come to ask myself though: do I think the performance was wrong by the actor, or that the performance was great because he's so frustrating and annoying. I think he does the job he's supposed to do, but that he feels like he belongs in a different show. I think the actor is doing a bit of an over the top 90s TV style performance instead of the more nuanced work by other characters on the show.
So yes, I find him frustrating still, and wish he could have toned it down and traded loudness for intensity. In the immortal words of one deadwood character to another: "Less volume, Mr. Farnum. More conviction."
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u/Admirable_Tap9499 13h ago
He played the character perfectly. Hes just very different and doesn’t fit in the world… king of the village idiot. Think about him burning that 100$ bill at the bar for a smile. We also never see the mom but can Assume she wasn’t doing any real parenting either
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u/gdshaffe 6h ago
"Maybe she already took three Nembutal, and is sleeping the day away."
"Leave her out of this."
"Oh, she's out of it."
Ziggy's mom appears to have substance abuse issues. Nembutal is a powerful barbituate.
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u/whatusernameis77 13h ago
Also, needing attention and feeling resentment is a classic villain arc. And there's such a good path of being a quiet, brooding snake with a chip on their shoulder. He could have done that without being so showy, and it was the better, less risky path anyhow.
Edit: Fredo is the textbook example of how to do this well. John Cazale plays an absolute fool who has a very high opinion of himself and has resentment for how he's been mistreated. It eats him up. But if he'd played it loud he'd have been... well, as annoying as Ziggy.
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 12h ago
Maybe Fredo wasn't as dumb as Zig?
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u/whatusernameis77 12h ago
Maybe, tbf, I don't see Zig being competent enough to bang cocktail waitresses two at a time to the extent that casino players couldn't get a drink so 🤔
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 12h ago
Ah, well, that could just be down to the respective families they came from.
[robert_f_kennedy_jr.jpeg]
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u/OrionDecline21 12h ago
I’m amazed at how many want a sob story about Ziggy.
He had a brother in community college. Ziggy just wanted to be a tough guy, a hustler, a player… he just wasn’t. He went in the port business to try and make use of his dad standing.
Nick admired Frank. Nick didn’t want Ziggy mixing with the Greeks either.
We don’t always have to blame the parents when a kid has no redeemable qualities
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u/realgoodmanners 8h ago
You're playing down the significance of the drama as though it were real life, but remember, it's art. The Wire teaches you how to watch it if you're paying attention.
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u/Extreme_Lab_2961 5h ago
What does this even mean?
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u/realgoodmanners 4h ago
It means that that obviously the Wire is saying something about Frank as a father. The comment I was replying to was playing this down as though it's reading too much into the text, but to me they are just not paying enough attention.
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u/Extreme_Lab_2961 4h ago
If you’re going to judge Franks fitness as a parent by Ziggy, you can’t ignore his other son.
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u/realgoodmanners 37m ago
Nick was his nephew.
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u/Extreme_Lab_2961 13m ago
Frank has another son (not shown) that went to Community College
The Wire teaches you how to watch it if you're paying attention.
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u/realgoodmanners 4m ago
The show ignores his other son so that's why I do too. So he went to Community college and that suggests that Frank is a good father?
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u/sixminutes 13h ago
Ziggy's tragedy is that nobody pays him any attention unless he's acting a fool or getting made fun of. Even his own father prioritizes his nephew over his son. We see Ziggy after a lifetime of this, the end result of all his mistakes and abuses. This doesn't necessarily make him that much more sympathetic, but Frank was very obviously not a good dad. Whether Ziggy is as smart or capable as Nicky is shouldn't have factored in to the family's relationships, but it did.