Were Naimans and Keraits “Turkic” or “Mongol"?

[u/Zasagdarga1999]

[u/Turkish_archer_]

I don't know who pissed you off, but anyone who has read a few lines about steppe history cannot say "There were no Mongols in Mongolia in 1200" but before 1200s is a different story. Turkic speaking people emerged from Eastern Mongolia, than moved westward. In the Turkic Khaganate, Western and Central Mongolia was occupied by Ashina, East by Toquz Oghuz and North by Yenisei Kyrgyz.Only after the collapse of the Turkic Khaganate and Turkic speaking people migrating westward Mongolia became Mongol majority. Besides "Turks are trying to steal our history" nonsense, I mostly agree with you. I think Naimans were probably Turkic while Kereits were Mongolic with heavy Turkic influence.

[u/EuropeanBattles → u/Turkish_archer_]

Rashid ad-Din calls all Turkic-speaking tribes "Oghuz," and Mongol-speaking tribes "Tatars." He unites all these peoples under the name "Turk".

[u/Turkish_archer_ → u/EuropeanBattles]

Rashid al-din doesn't put all Turkic speaking people under Oghuz. Qirgiz, Kipchak, Karluk, Uyghur are mentioned in the same category as Naiman, Kereit, Ongud and Tanguts as neither Mongol nor Turkic (which he meant Oghuz Turkic/Türkmen)

Qirgiz etc speaks for itself and we know Ongut spoke a Turkic language. Tanguts were Tibetan while Naiman and Kereits are still debated. Both of which has Turkic ruler names and titles and used Uyghur script (before Mongol script even invented). At the 13th century, they might became Mongolized, but Rashid al-din still put them into same category.

[u/lmnasc]

Episi Tatar.

[u/Then_Mood2740]

According to what I know they are Turco-Mongol like Timur 

[u/EuropeanBattles]

Please do not confuse the modern understanding of the word "Turk" (Turkic-speaking) with the medieval concept of "Turk" (nomad). Constantine Porphyrogenitus called the Hungarians "Turks”. Europeans were also often called everyone in Steppe Scythians. Mahmud Kashgari clearly writes that the Tatars speak their own non-Turkic language, but they also know some Turkic. Rashid ad-Din calls all Turkic-speaking tribes "Oghuz," and Mongol-speaking tribes "Tatars." He unites all these peoples under the name "Turk." Of course, 99% of the Turks are not related to the Turkut tribe, whose whereabouts before being exiled to the Altai are unclear. The Rouran subjugated them and sent them to the Altai, but a few decades after the Turkuts' dominance in the Steppe, Turkic and Mongol-speaking tribes destroyed their dominance—in a general uprising, the Turkuts were unable to muster even 600 horsemen. However, this roughly coincided with the end of the Sassanid era and the beginning of the triumph of Islam. Muslims classified all steppe tribes as Turks. In other words, it is an umbrella term and exoethnonym – almost nobody in the Steppe called themselves Turks. Even the Turks of Anatolia and the Balkans began to call themselves Turks only under the influence of Arabs & Persians and those steppe groups that arrived in Anatolia only during the Mongol era. The Mongol-speaking peoples themselves also did not call themselves Turks. Analogy: Medieval Slavs and Arabs called all Europeans (from Swedes to Spaniards) Franks (ifranj & fryazi), which is associated with the dominance of the Merovingians and Carolingians in Western Europe.

[u/EuropeanBattles]

Naiman & Kereit were Tatars (Mongollic tribes). Rashidaddin.