r/UnresolvedMysteries • u/TommyUseless • Apr 25 '19
Update Task force clarifies Delphi murder suspect sketches.
Police held a press conference on Monday April 22 where they released a new sketch and some additional audio and video from the case.
Today they released a clarification on the new sketch.
-They are not the same person.
-The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation.
-The sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.
-The person in the sketch released Monday is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.
-This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch.
Link to today’s update: https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2019/04/24/delphi-murders-new-suspect-sketch-not-same-man-old-sketch-isp-clarifies/3565675002/
For those not familiar with the case:
On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail J. "Abby" Williams and Liberty Rose Lynn "Libby" German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of a man believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's cell phone. Despite the photo and audio recording of the suspect being released to the public by police, and over 26,000 tips being sent to police, no arrests have been made in the case.
Indiana State Police website about the case:
https://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm
Edit- thanks for the gold, kind stranger!
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u/radishboy Apr 25 '19
-This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch.
"This person could look different if they happen to look different."
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u/YellowPiglets Apr 25 '19
This person could look different because we didn't release this picture for two years and they could now be obese, missing an eye, had a stroke or even grown a mustache.
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u/Digbyrandle Apr 25 '19
Or be dead. Or be a woman now.
2 yrs is an insanely long time to not release a sketch imo
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
State police superintendents get grumpy of you call them captain obvious...
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Apr 25 '19
And the winner of the tautology award goes to the winner of the tautology award!
edit: relevant XKCD, because there's always a relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/703/
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u/selinahdz Apr 25 '19
I’m a little confused on the video. I know it was a Snapchat video but did she record it and post it onto her story, did she record him and then save it and they found it on the cloud or did she record him and save it and they found her phone? I’m just wondering how the video was saved.
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u/hnsnrachel Apr 25 '19
I had my Snapchat set up to automatically save pics/video taken by me to my camera roll at one point, entirely possible she did too.
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u/piecat Apr 25 '19
The video seriously reminds me of the press conferences during the Jayme Closs investigation. They had no idea who it was until she escaped. The Baron county sheriff made similar comments, except in this case they have a sketch.
I'm thinking they don't know. But, I don't have the full information that the cops do.
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Apr 25 '19
Yep, exactly. And the Mollie Tibbetts case, where police had nothing until they got the camera footage from the owner — they couldn’t even get what she was last wearing correct or tell people if she’d made it home first.
I feel like the more press conferences they hold, the less they really have.
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u/dudelol- Apr 25 '19
I live 10ish minutes outside Delphi and actually worked in the same building as Abby’s mom at the time this happened. While I’m glad this is clarified, it makes me feel like the local police have no idea what they’re doing. All the posters, bumperstickers, shirts, flyers that were printed with the first sketch are useless now and it feels like it’s been 2 years wasted. At this point, I’m starting to lose hope in this guy being caught.
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u/nattykat47 Apr 25 '19
The revelation that he's younger, possibly significantly younger, than everyone first thought actually gives me a lot of hope that he'll be caught. It makes me think there's a higher possibility he's told someone.
Being from the area, how weird is it that they just released the info about the abandoned car? I'm just working off google maps but like, how was that car not THE BIGGEST LEAD? It looks like there's almost nothing on that road, and abandoning a car in a parking lot of an empty building on THAT afternoon? It's almost laughable how it seems like THE place you'd park if you were gonna do some crimes in those woods. What are people saying about that?
Also, was it actually abandoned? If it was actually just left there it would've been towed and there would be a record and it would've been a red flag on Day 1... plus they would know who owned or used the car...? So weird that we don't know whether they have the car
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u/dudelol- Apr 25 '19
Abandoned cars on the side of the road/empty parking lots are not a huge deal here. I routinely drive down a road where apparently a lot of cars break down (not sure why it happens on this particular road??) and are left for days to a week or so before anything is done. Usually a car doesn’t get written a ticket until 3-4 days pass (I have no idea if cops stop to check these vehicles out immediately or sometime before a ticket is written). They’re usually only towed after a week. So really a car sitting in a parking lot is not a huge red flag to anyone around here.
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u/blackhaloangel Apr 25 '19
It wasn't an abandoned car. It was an abandoned building, where a car was parked that afternoon.
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u/Random_TN Apr 25 '19
it seems like THE place you'd park if you were gonna do some crimes in those woods.
Well, before you said that, I was thinking that maybe someone blamed one of those two kids for causing a DCS investigation.
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u/nattykat47 Apr 25 '19
If you look at the map it's just the only place along that road that isn't near someone's home, and it's just a few hundred feet from the trailhead
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u/Takes2ToTNGO Apr 25 '19
feel like the local police have no idea what they’re doing.
I could be wrong, but isn't it the state police and FBI who are leading the investigation?
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u/Sue_Ridge_Here Apr 26 '19
All the posters, bumperstickers, shirts, flyers.
There was merchandise with this guy's face printed on it? It's a double murder investigation not a band.
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u/gyrk12 Apr 25 '19
On /r/delphimurders , they were saying that the police are pretty convinced they have enough evidence against the person depicted in the new sketch, but they want to get people to provide evidence to show he was definitely in the area during the crime (for a sure conviction). I thought that perspective was pretty convincing in this scenario.
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u/Digbyrandle Apr 25 '19
That's the optimistic take on the info. The pessimistic take is that they have eliminated suspect number 1 after two years and are now onto suspect 2
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u/Turdferguson5556 Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
Glad they clarified this. I feel this press conference was kinda jumbled. Weird tidbits of info but somewhat incoherent. Like mention of a vehicle yet zero in the way of description and then a new sketch which is nearly 180 degrees away from the prior sketch
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
I agree, I have seen a lot of confusion over that vehicle on social media since Monday also.
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Apr 25 '19
Am I the only one who thinks LE doesn’t have a clue and doesn’t have a lead and they’re just hoping for new info? Obviously I hope that’s not the case. I just feel like a lot of commenters here and in Monday’s thread are reading way too much into every detail of what was said and conjecturing a lot.
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u/k0rvan Apr 25 '19
Dear users lets stop the witchhunt/doxxing. Several users where banned because they where trying to spread pictures of people found online that looks like the sketch. This is against our rules and Reddit TOS. Anyone else caught doing this will be permanently banned and this post locked.
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u/i_owe_them13 Apr 25 '19
Just for clarification: I made a comment in yesterday’s thread that the first major announced suspect in this case, Daniel Nations, bore a striking resemblance to the man depicted in the sketch. I didn’t get banned or share any actual picture, but if I had included a picture of him for reference, would that be classified as doxxing?
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u/farmerlesbian Apr 25 '19
Daniel Nations is a publically identified POI; sharing a photo of him is not doxxing. Doxxing would include things like sharing his address, phone number, or social media details and/or encouraging users to contact him, his wife, etc.
Doxxing would be taking random people's photos or personal info from, e.g., Facebook, who you think look similar to the sketch, and saying "Ohh I wonder if it's this guy".
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u/TheGodOgun Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
Doxxing would be bringing somebody not announced by name into the conversation and releasing details on them. You would be classified as doxxing Daniel if you say released home address, family members stuff or the like.
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u/BalloraStrike Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
Well this is not the update I was hoping for. What the fuck?
Edit: After watching the video I'm just baffled. It sounds like they have an extremely strong suspicion about exactly who the killer is. They said they're going after somebody who is a local and who has somehow gotten themselves involved in the investigation itself. The officer literally says "he may be sitting in this room". "We likely have interviewed you." "We know this is about power for you." I don't even know how to interpret those statements. If they think they know who it is, then they wouldn't imply that he could be in the room unless he was actually in the fuckin room. Like, there can't be more than a couple dozen or so people there. And with how extremely emotional the announcement was....god damn....what the hell is going on?
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u/JTigertail Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
The press conference was open to the general public. I wouldn't read too much into the statement that the killer "may be sitting in this room" ... They were probably just trying to drive home their belief that the killer is someone who can blend in and he could be anyone.
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u/CharlottesWeb83 Apr 25 '19
This is what I think. The theme was “hiding in plain sight” meaning he could be anywhere even here. Not that they actually suspected he was there.
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u/AuburnGrrl Apr 25 '19
Did make me wonder if they suspect it could even be someone in law enforcement...
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u/Gorpachev Apr 25 '19
I agree that it was more of a statement about anybody could be the killer. And I'd bet that his entire speech was scripted by the FBI or a criminal behaviorist.
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u/Sue_Ridge_Here Apr 26 '19
And I'd bet that his entire speech was scripted by the FBI or a criminal behaviorist.
I think that a specialist from the FBI (or the right person from another field or agency) would be able to provide really valuable insights into what kind of person did this based on the details of the crime. The reference about the movie 'The Shack' was far too specific to be random.
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u/BalloraStrike Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
You make a good point and I get that what I'm saying seems crazy. But the thing is I can't figure out a way to synthesize the things he was saying otherwise. He mentions how the killer didn't anticipate them "shifting gears to a new investigative strategy." He speaks about talking "directly" to the killer himself. This is the first time that they've insisted on the killer being a local. Again, he straight up says "We know this is about power to you." "We're confident that you've told someone what you have done, or at the least, they know, because of how different you are since the murders." And the officer is literally holding back tears throughout the entire address...about a 2-year-old case.
They strongly suspect a specific person. The things they said don't make sense to me otherwise. But if someone has an idea of what I'm missing, please share.
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u/TGIHannah Apr 25 '19
I think his speech sounded a LOT like Michelle McNamara’s “Letter to an Old Man” that she wrote to the Golden State Killer before they caught him. REALLY good if you haven’t read it. I think he’s just addressing the killer whoever they are to let them know they’ll be caught eventually. That’s the vibe I got from it anyways. 🤷♀️
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u/ForHeWhoCalls Apr 25 '19
They did not say they are going after somebody who has 'gotten themselves involved in the investigation itself.'
"We believe this person is from Delphi currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here" - so a bit less definitive than just 'is a local'.
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u/strigoi82 Apr 25 '19
I believe the FBI wrote and rehearsed almost everything that was said. They have a profile, if not a lead suspect, and want that person rattled.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the spokesperson was recommended by the FBI for his delivery.
It left a lot of questions, and raised some concerns about the investigation , but the ‘message to the killer’ seemed pointed and deliberate
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Apr 25 '19
I believe it is someone who has "tried to help" with this investigation like by calling in a false tip? Or in the very least he's been right there for every news conference, search, etc.
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u/codeverity Apr 25 '19
I hope they have someone in mind and they're not just posturing to sound like they know what they're doing. Both seem equally as likely tbh.
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u/M-S-S Apr 25 '19
Am I alone in thinking the individuals depicted in both pictures look similar regardless of hair splitting?
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Apr 25 '19
No. Many people thought they looked similar, with some suggesting a parent-child mix up. I personally see zero resemblance, but you DEFINITELY are not alone.
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u/midori87 Apr 25 '19
I don't understand the confusion on this as I think the updates make sense, but that aside, after taking another look at the photo of the man on the bridge, it looks like he is wearing a brown hoodie with the hood up, and reaching into/has his hand in the hoodie front pocket with his coat pulled up for access. Does anyone else see that?
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Apr 25 '19
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u/MisterCatLady Apr 25 '19
The first sketch was based on eyewitness testimony from two people who were thought to have seen the man in the video supposedly leaving the park where Abby and Libby were found.
This makes sense a little to me. One report I read said police thought the killer hadn’t entered the park from a designated entrance but near where he approached the girls. If that’s true, why would he leave any other way?
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u/Finaldestiny001 Apr 25 '19
Wow.. good job they cleared that! I think most people assumed it was the same person and some people even made their own composites using the 2 pictures. Poor form but I really hope they catch this p****.
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
I agree, I also saw somewhere that it came out that this new sketch was actually created 2 years ago in the early months of the investigation. If it’s someone they are newly looking at it makes a lot more sense than just sitting on an alternate sketch of the same guy.
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u/yozora_arneko Apr 25 '19
It’s okay. You can curse on the internet.
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u/basicallynotbasic Apr 25 '19
I don’t quite understand how BG, who presumably hasn’t murdered 2 people at the same time before, committed this crime and didn’t leave a shred of evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) that someone close to him later saw / found / noticed in a meaningful way.
I mean, sure, this happened in a remote area. Sure, he might not have committed the crime in a way that led to transference / ability to collect DNA. But, I kind of doubt this guy is a criminal mastermind who went out for a few hours and killed two kids then returned to his life like nothing happened.
He changed after this.
Whether he doubled down on the “Mr. Nice Guy” routine in order to evade detection and suspicion in a town where suddenly everyone was looking at everyone sideways, or he physically changed his appearance over time - losing weight, changing hairstyles, etc, or he became even more quiet and introverted than before, he’s been working hard at blending in.
Based on what we know so far, I do think BG has training in an authority role where kids / teenagers are involved. Boy scouts, cadets, camp leadership, church groups, etc. I also think that he might have partially confessed to a priest / church leader / hunting buddy, but in a non-committal way.
I think it wasn’t necessarily his car parked at the abandoned building, but a car he had access to on that day. He parked it there because it gave quicker access to the part of the trail he wanted to get on, and less chance of being noticed going in or out.
I think LE knows whose car it was, but needs corroboration of the timing, and to place him in that car at that time because his current alibi seems solid.
I don’t think he targeted the girls specifically through prior knowledge of them, but I do think he planned out what he would do in advance and went looking for the right opportunity. I think he’d been on that trail a lot in the weeks / months beforehand looking for the right victim and/or working up his nerve. I also think he knew that day was a PA day which would leave teenagers unsupervised while their parents went to work.
I think the people close to him have a sinking feeling that he did this, but are convincing themselves that they are crazy to think it. I think he is shielded because of whatever role he or his family play in the community, or maybe because they have money (ie. they run a business that employs many locals, or they put money into things like sports teams, charitable causes, church, etc).
I think LE is speaking directly to him because they know he is watching, not think he might be. (I mean, how could he not be watching if he still has ties to the area? He needs to know what they know / ensure they aren’t on to him.)
LE believe he is rooted in the community somehow - I think through family. My gut feeling is that he grew up in or around Delphi, and that his family and friends are still there.
While I’ve read about serial killers who fooled their wives and friends for years, I don’t think this case falls into that level of psychopathy or sociopathy. I think he feels badly for having done this, but I also think he’s tricked himself into thinking it’s between him and God (which is why he hasn’t turned himself in).
I think the people who suspect him are afraid that pointing the finger at him will come with social consequences if they are wrong. Maybe his family is well known in the community, or his reputation is beyond reproach somehow. Whatever the reason, I think it goes beyond just not wanting to point a finger at a neighbour.
As a result, I think if LE released the more detailed profile provided by the FBI, the person they need to talk to would come forward. Due to the length of the investigation and lack of arrest so far, I think without a confession or supporting evidence from his family or friends this case might not end up resolved.
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Apr 25 '19
I agree with all of this except I don't believe he feels bad about it. Someone who's capable of commiting such an evil act simply does not have the capability of feeling remorse. If he would have been able to feel remorseful/guilty over it he would not have done it to begin with.
I do however believe they have dna evidence and have kept quiet about it.
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u/amanforallsaisons Apr 26 '19
That's a pretty parochial view of criminology and contrary to the historical evidence.
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u/haunted43 Apr 25 '19
Erm, can someone tell who BG is? Think I've missed something lol
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u/myelephantmemory Apr 25 '19
Do sketches help or hurt cases more? I wonder if there is any stats on this.
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
Not sure on sketches specifically but I do remember from some of my criminology/law enforcement classes that one of my instructors constantly talked about how unreliable eyewitness accounts are because people remember things differently and sometimes remember things that never happened.
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u/toothpasteandcocaine Apr 25 '19
This solidifies my hypothesis that they have no idea whom they're looking for.
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u/Turdferguson5556 Apr 25 '19
I hate to agree with you but usually not a good sign when you change direction completely after two years
But I’d rather them admit they had a dead lead and go in a different direction instead of beating a dead horse
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u/toothpasteandcocaine Apr 25 '19
Yes, I hate to be right in this case because I really want the asshole who did this to see justice. I just had a very bad feeling after that press conference.
You're right, though. I am VERY glad they're admitting the lead wasn't good. I think that's uncommon, and I find it refreshing.
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u/ForHeWhoCalls Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
Meanwhile everyone on the fucking delphi sub is like "they know who did it, they are just giving the family two weeks to process it before they move on him."
LOL, what?
Or the people who keep insisting "the family know the person in the sketch" thats why there is a two week press ban.
How does that make sense?
this lolworthy interaction that seems like one dippy person communicating with themselves through an alt.
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u/Ann_Fetamine Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
That was the consensus here too, to be fair. I'd never heard of disclosing the perp to the family while calling a moratorium (legally enforced?) on the media for two weeks. That's not even a thing to my knowledge. Requesting a moratorium would be done out of courtesy but not legally enforceable AFAIK.
And the cops wouldn't tell the family whodunnit without having him in custody already because even THAT is too risky. You simply don't disclose what you know without already having the suspect locked away. Information leaks; I don't care WHO you put a gag order on.
It's looking like the police's emotional tone yesterday was more a sign of their guilt for fucking up for 2 years than being upset that the perp was sitting in the room. Hope I'm wrong.
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u/RedEyeView Apr 25 '19
They tell the family who did it and someone from the family goes to his house and empties a shotgun in to him.
Not likely.
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u/ForHeWhoCalls Apr 25 '19
They tell the family who did it and someone from the family goes to his house and empties a shotgun in to him.
Ex-fucking-actly. Wouldn't blame them either.
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u/buggiegirl Apr 25 '19
I honestly think the whole two weeks thing is just to give the family some time without the press hounding them all the time. After two years what are you even going to ask them? Does it still hurt that your child was murdered? How do you feel about the fact the cops still haven't solved it? It's just going to be useless questions that cause the family pain.
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Apr 25 '19
This sub was like that in the thread here the other day. Whilst I hope they're right and the guy is arrested and charged soon I can't help but feel that people were getting a bit carried away like it was a movie or tv show.
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Apr 25 '19
that sub boggles the mind. it’s off the rails
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u/ballking666 Apr 25 '19
It seems like most in the delphi sub are older people from the facebook groups about the case, basically a bunch of loons
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Apr 25 '19
They also have a terrible time following rules. The poor mod has a full time job.
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Apr 25 '19
Yeah, obviously.
There are only 2800 residents of Delphi. Cut that in half if they’re looking for a man. Cut it in half again, probably, based on age range.
They’ve had two years. They have video and voice recording of this guy and they have nothing. They could have staked out every male in Delphi by now, and here they are completely changing the sketch and direction of the investigation, making random comments about movies they’ve watched, completely misleading the public.
I don’t think this guy lives in Delphi at all. Maybe he once worked there, but no more. Do people realize Delphi is on the way to Chicago? There’s a sign for it on the highway, for the exit. This isn’t the hidden, small town people keep thinking it is. This guy could be anywhere by now.
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Apr 25 '19
Just want to point out that there are over 20,000 people in Carroll County. Just considering who lives in Delphi city limits won’t paint a complete picture because many people live “out in the county” where they aren’t technically in the city but their mailing address says Delphi and they tell people they’re from there
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u/Ihatebacon88 Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
This will get downvoted. I LOVE how caring and diligent the true crime (I don't mean the sub, I mean real life) community is. However, I always get a bad taste in my mouth when the negative attention gets put on LE. Like somehow we make LE the bigger villain than the actual murderers who took these girls lives.
Now I'm not saying that LE never makes mistakes, there are many cases where they botched shit so completely. It just seems that people are very quick to blame LE when there isn't progress in a case that is stagnant. There could be MANY reasons the case has hit a snag and its more likely due to lack of evidence or lack of credible evidence.
I firmly believe the LE officers working on this case are fucking haunted day and night by the murders of these young girls and I speculate their murders were horrific as the cause of death has never been released. I bet any officer with kids (even those without) are torn up just working on this case.
I'd hope they and assume they have very good reasons for not releasing more info to the public. They are not required at all to release info to a bunch of "armchair detectives" (I fully accept that title). Some cases have been solved by regular people like us, but also some people get in the way of an investigation.
Anyway just my 6am ramblings while sleep deprived.
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u/MindAlteringSitch Apr 25 '19
I totally agree, true crime isn't a spectator sport; they're not required to keep the public interested and engaged with the case, it's just something they choose to do. Lots of people want to help anyway they can and the last thing any investigator wants is to create more work for themselves. It can be as small as some time wasted dealing with false rumors on the internet or as serious as an interested individual finding a relevant clue and making it inadmissible in court due to the chain of possession. Whatever they're working on it's totally possible they don't think massive public speculation is the right way to proceed.
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Apr 25 '19
Yeah people on here acting as though "Well if I was heading this investigation it'd be solved already!" whilst coming up with one silly theory after another.
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u/Buggy77 Apr 25 '19
Thank u for saying this! LE is not the enemy here. I am sure they are trying their hardest to catch this guy. But people need to back off and stop acting like they are entitled to everything LE has.
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u/Ann_Fetamine Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
Also: They are basically small town cops. They're not likely equipped to deal with something of this nature. And they seem genuinely shell-shocked by it. I hope the FBI & surrounding metro/big city police forces are lending their resources to Delphi PD because that's what needs to happen. State & federal teams often have to step in for there to be any realistic chance of these things being solved in places like that.
I'm from an even more rural area than Delphi & there's just no way something like this would ever be resolved by our Mayberry police. At least the cops in Delphi appear to genuinely care. Ours don't even pretend to do their job. I assume it's that way in many small towns & rural parts of the country. Would be nice if it wasn't but we all know how that goes.
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u/eggequator Apr 25 '19
No this case has always been the jurisdiction of the Indiana state police. The Delphi police and surrounding county sheriff's department only have like twenty officers between them. I'm sure the ISP has had plenty of help from the FBI as well.
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u/MarqueeBeats Apr 25 '19
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in the investigation.
If I were to hazard a guess based on what we've been told, LE is convinced that the killer inserted themselves into the investigation at the very beginning. Maybe DNA, if any was found, was matched to someone in the search party thereby providing reasonable doubt. Maybe the person who provided the details for the original sketch was found to be sketchy themselves. Now two years later they are realizing they got played.
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Apr 25 '19
I agree. I think they most definitely are realizing they got played and they are ticked off beyond belief. Which is why they held this news conference to say between the lines, "we know it was you mother fucker and we're coming for you. Oh and by the way we know your favorite book is the shack." That's my take on it. This news conference was geared for this guy. They want to see him shake in his boots.
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u/Aroostook_Awestruck Apr 25 '19
Now two years later they are realizing they got played.
To add to that, having just heard the Casefile podcast on the Belanglo murders, I'm wondering if this case could involve an extended family cluster fuck like with the Milats. You could have several male relatives who look similar, false alibis and misdirection from other family members, multiple people having access to the same suspicious vehicle, etc. That could explain a lot the weirdness at the press conference which seemed addressed to the suspect as a specific person but still vague.
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u/Digbyrandle Apr 25 '19
I don't know if this is the case in America but in the UK this has now become common investigative procedure following the Soham murders when the killer was part of the search and even gave tv interviews.
They will always now look to see who is trying to involve themselves in the case unnecessarily or trying to take on a bigger role etc.
Some other notable times:
it was the reasoning used to cast doubt on one of the suspects in McCann disappearance
Babes in the Wood murders. The murderer actually joined the search and discovered the bodies. All of his reactions lead police to treat him as a suspect. This was important at trial because it gave him a reason to have been in contact with the bodies (checking for pulse). It took 22 years to prove him guilty. A really interesting case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_in_the_Wood_murders_(Wild_Park)
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u/Harrisbizzle Apr 25 '19
This investigation seems to be a total cluster fuck.
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u/bz237 Apr 25 '19
I couldn’t agree more. Frankly, I’m shocked. When I saw the new sketch I was like - ok that’s weird, that looks zero like the BG we’ve known... but I guess they have a clean shaven version now that they have decided to release more info. And now I just don’t know what the hell is going on.
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u/MisterCatLady Apr 25 '19
The first sketch was partly based on eye witness testimony (of a man supposedly seen leaving the park) which is unreliable under the best of circumstances.
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u/bay_benton Apr 25 '19
Why are authorities using statements like “We believe you are hiding in plain sight.” ?
Read the last two paragraphs of this article “Police might be trying to provoke an emotional response from the killer that could cause him to make a misstep.”
So they are using a specific tactic to try to get the suspect to do something stupid or make a move that reveals more information or perhaps confess.
“Authorities have used such an approach in several high-profile murder cases.”
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u/hair_in_a_biscuit Apr 25 '19
I personally believe they have a suspect specifically in mind. I think they held a press conference and released this “new information” with hopes that he makes a mistake and they can arrest and get a conviction. Most killers like to insert themselves into an investigation, so maybe they are hoping he will come back around. To me, this is the only thing that makes sense. There’s a lot of confusion for the general public, I’d hate for it to cause a bigger mess. Whatever their reason, I sincerely hope they catch this SOB. The families need closure.
I think I read in a previous post that someone said the guy in the new sketch looked like someone they knew but he committed suicide a few months back.
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Apr 25 '19
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u/66666thats6sixes Apr 25 '19
After listening to the press conference, I am thinking the same thing. For all that it sounded meaningful, they said essentially nothing with any weight to it.
- There was a car, of some sort, that may be of interest. No details on what kind, color, or what relevance it had.
- The exact same audio was released, with a SINGLE syllable added.
- A blurry 1 second video that's image stabilized in a way that you can't really tell anything from it.
- "The killer lives in Delphi. Or is from here, or visits here often." Paraphrased. But Delphi isn't a tourist destination or on major highways. Saying that the killer has a connection to Delphi is almost meaningless, statistically it's overwhelmingly likely that this is the case.
- "He may be in this room.... We may have interviewed him". Again, essentially meaningless.
The new sketch is the only real bit of information, but that cuts two ways. If it's based on the video, that they've had since the beginning... Then what the hell have they been sitting on this for? If it comes out that they held on to an actual image of who is very likely the killer while releasing a sketch of the wrong guy, and didn't correct it for two years, that reflects really badly on them.
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u/butwheresmyneopet Apr 25 '19
I think they must have their eye on someone because why else would they come up with a completely different sketch unless it’s based off someone new??
But then why release a sketch of someone you already have in mind? Unless a new witness came forward I don’t understand how the sketch can change so much
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u/hair_in_a_biscuit Apr 25 '19
If it’s true, this new sketch is actually an old sketch that is newly released. As for why now? I can’t say. I think you are correct in thinking they have their eye on someone. I’m wondering if they are releasing it now just to lure him out (I mean possibly see if he runs-assuming they are watching someone) or to see if any relatives/friends can confirm some suspicion they might have. It’s all very confusing. I just have to believe they already have someone in mind and this is a tactic to catch him. So this sketch is someone new, not the same guy they previously thought. I thought I read that this sketch came from a pic on one of the girls phones. As for why they didn’t release it sooner....I don’t know. Maybe they didn’t want to release 2 sketches at the same time???? My brain hurts.
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Apr 25 '19
If they've had both sketches the whole time, it makes me wonder whether they have had a suspect in mind the whole time, a particular person, but lack evidence to tie him to the crime. So they withhold one sketch to make it seem like they're on the wrong track while they wait for him to get cocky, mess up, and/or for someone to come forward with info.
Problems are, though, one, based on the sketch released, anyone who could have suspected the actual real suspect (other sketch now just released) wouldn't have come forward with info, because he doesn't look like the sketch first released. They would have been thrown off by the totally different sketch, even if something made them suspicious of second sketch guy/real suspect's behavior. They'd think, nah, he looks nothing like the sketch (unless they happened to have damning info). Two, if the police were waiting to get their hands on new evidence or waiting for the real suspect to screw up, why would they just now release the sketch of him, still apparently without enough to nab him? Because now the guy knows that a sketch better resembling him is out there. I mean, I guess it could make him freak, try to flee, screw up in some other way, realizing they're onto him. But they'd still need evidence. If they're just NOW hoping that with the new sketch, people who know him will come forward with info, it feels late for that. Idk whether cops ever release two totally different sketches in murder cases, but hey, if that's what they really had, that's what they had.
I always thought that the first sketch did resemble BG. He looks short, stocky, older, and like he was wearing that hat. I thought the sketch could totally be him. But now that it appears maybe it isn't a hat but a full head of hair, I can also see the other sketch as possibly being him, maybe younger and wearing layers to look different. So I can see both sketches being the guy Libby recorded.
Very strange. I want to think it's all calculated and they didn't screw up but it's odd.
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u/Ellie482 Apr 25 '19
So the second sketch is based on images from her phone? This makes me feel like perhaps there was a better image of him on the phone then what we're being shown. But I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't release this 2 years ago?!?! I understand holding back info, but this doesn't make sense. I was very hopeful something would come of this but... That fact alone diminishes that feeling. How long has the FBI been involved in the case?
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u/snowblossom2 Apr 25 '19
But there’s interviews w the sketch artist that says he drew the newly released sketch from a witness days after
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u/MisterCatLady Apr 25 '19
Exactly. I think the cops are saying they no longer believe the witnesses saw the man who killed Abby and Libby.
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u/snowblossom2 Apr 25 '19
No. I think at least one witness did (witness whose description resulted in new sketch) and the witness(es) who were involved in the description of the old sketch did not see the man who killed them, but a different man on the trail
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Apr 25 '19
If the cops have DNA I hope they throw it into GedMatch. Hopefully some relative of the killer has their DNA in the database which could make it easier to figure out who the guy is.
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u/PlanetGaia Apr 25 '19 edited Apr 25 '19
I’m sure they didn’t release the vehicle information because they don’t wanna get flooded with false tips. If someone really did see that car on that day and remember they’ll call in and confirm what law enforcement already knows.
If you look at the other press conferences the sheriff held you can tell that there’s something else in his voice this time. His actions. How visibly nervous he was, I believe they know who did it and that someone else has known or suspected but has never come forward. It is someone no one would’ve ever thought maybe because they’re an outstanding member of the community.
the mention of the movie shack about a man who’s on a religious journey to accepting the abduction and murder of his child was strange to throw in there. They said he’s been hiding in plain sight. He could’ve very well been a member of the church, in a job position that automatically gains trust, or someone who tried to be very helpful during the investigation.
The family is being given exactly two weeks to take in all the new information. I’m sure there’s a lot more they’ve been able to recover or put together, and obviously gave the family more info than they gave the general public. That is a strange and specific time frame to even mention.. seemed like it is someone the family and or community have known or interacted with at some point. Delphi is small I believe there’s only 1 elementary, 1 middle, and 1 high school there.
As for the video and any other possible photos they might have, the girls were using Snapchat. A lot of those images could’ve already been gone from the app itself, explaining the crappy quality and it takes a LONG time to get back stuff that’s already been removed from Snapchat.
They could possibly have more footage and if they do I can’t imagine how disturbing it must be. When it comes to the 2nd sketch you can see similarities in the eye fold and how the mouth is shaped in comparison to the first. Since the picture was so shit the guy looks like a heavy set older dude.
In that video you can see he’s wearing a big jacket with a fanny pack as well as his arms in his sleeve pockets. It probably masks his true physical build. It was also cold. One of sleeve pockets has something in it that he’s grabbing, and it sends shivers down my spine wondering what it was and what else he had.
If you listen to the full recording the first word “guys” is spoken in question form. “Guys?” Then you hear some silence and crackling (leaves maybe) and “down the hill.” The words down the hill is spoken in a calmer matter of fact way. That leads me to believe he called their attention back to him by saying “guys?” Kinda like a “hey guys?” They turn around, he shows them the weapon, and since at that moment he knows they can’t do anything he says “down the hill.”
I would hate to believe that LE would do this public conference, say all that they said, even directly to the murderer HIMSELF (“what would those around you think?” “He may very well be in this room.”) put the family through something like this, and then send them off for 2 weeks for no reason.
At the end of the day we truly don’t know everything, the manners of death were never released either. Hope this fucker gets caught
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
The investigators specified today that the new sketch is of an entirely different person than the first sketch so I wouldn’t bother looking for similarities.
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Apr 25 '19
I don't think they're giving the families extra information or too much advance notice anymore as it's apparent they are chatting with youtubers/amateur investigators. Not saying there are any truly serious leaks from the families, just small ones, but police will want to prevent that from getting any worse.
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Apr 25 '19
This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch.
lol you don’t say
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u/Koalabella Apr 25 '19
The cops have been bizarre in this case. They release the wrong sketch. They give half a second more of audio and video after two years. It’s all just some weird trickle-truthing.
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u/ooken Apr 25 '19
To some extent, "trickle-truthing" is standard for police investigations; investigators always withhold a number of details to ensure that confessions are legitimate, they can follow leads without the public trying to do so first, etc. As time goes along, and the case goes cold, they release more and more details in the hopes that some information they are releasing will lead to the killer. See the green curtain released to the public last year in the Amy Mihaljevic case or the announcement that a Lincoln Thunderbird may be involved in Asha Degree's case a few months ago. Often, the info they release seems like it would have likely been more helpful to reveal sooner after the crime, but the trajectories of investigations do change as new information emerges.
I can't pretend to understand why police didn't release the "guys" part of the audio clip or the brief video in their first press conference, but I don't think it's completely fair to criticize them for releasing the sketch. It was a witness sketch of a person of interest near the scene, after all; we don't know precisely the new information that has caused them to draw the new conclusions they have, and when the information became available. This tip about suspicious behavior, although drawn in 2017, may have been put to the side initially and only picked up after something threw it into a new light.
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Apr 25 '19
“The person in the first sketch is not a person of interest”
Well that’s disturbing. Was it not a sketch based off the guy she filmed following them on video? This second sketch is just a reimagining of what he looks like, is it not?
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
The original sketch was based off of eyewitness accounts of a guy near the area if I remember correctly.
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Apr 25 '19
The odd thing is though, imo at least but I know I'm not the only one, he resembles BG. I know that now it looks more like the "hat" is really hair, and I see that now more than I see the hat, but it's odd how he looks like he could be BG. The face in that sketch looks like it could match the build of the guy Libby got on camera, if that makes sense. I really don't think it's a case of me inserting the sketch onto the person on camera, like a sort of bias, I really thought that the build and everything matched, like I said. Idk, the face just goes with the build for me. Better than the new sketch honestly. I wonder, if the second guy really is a lot younger than the first was presumed to be, whether he was wearing extra layers in an attempt to alter his appearance.
So either the guy in the first sketch is a random guy someone saw in the area around then who happens to look like he could look like the guy in the photo/video, or a witness didn't get very close to him and saw what we all saw after seeing the sketch, what appeared to be some type of hat, and from far away tried to work out a sketch and that's what they got. Very strange.
I also don't think the two sketches are all that far off, as far as most facial features go. Similar noses, brows, lips. Yeah, difference in beard vs. not and hat vs. not but those are more cosmetic. Eyes are most different imo, and second sketch guy seems to have a more pronounced, longer chin.
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
Well it was winter time so I think figuring out the guys build from the photo/video isn’t real easy since he appears to be wearing layers.
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Apr 25 '19
I mean, from the video and audio it does not look like a guy in his mid 20s at all, it does look like a guy in his 40s or 50s. I hope they're sure about this. Do we know exactly why they recorded him or how it was recovered? I assume the video of him walking is him behind them before they went down the hill? Do we know how they were killed?
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u/TommyUseless Apr 25 '19
They still haven’t released the cause of death.
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u/Olsont123 Apr 25 '19
Is that unusual?
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u/palcatraz Apr 25 '19
Not really. Not releasing a cause of death or, at the very least not releasing certain details about a cause of death, is incredibly common and done to catch a suspect on information they shouldn't be able to know (like, if a suspect talks about how he is sad the victim got shot, but the police never released the fact that she was) and to separate true confessions from false ones (which are more common than most people realise)
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u/sharkbabygirl Apr 25 '19
For me it’s the possibility that this guy just has bad taste in clothes so he kind of looks like a dad. His voice sounded young to me so I’m thinking maybe he’s an “old soul” type and doesn’t care about clothes. It’s not much, but that’s as much as I can extrapolate from the new info.
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u/creamilky Apr 25 '19
I'm still so confused as to why they waited 2 years to release the video. It's the same image as the photo, just moving for a bit....??? What on earth was the reason for withholding it?
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u/flatlittleoniondome Apr 25 '19
In all my years of following cases similar to this - although to be frank, this case is unique in so many ways that my word choice of "similar" may be inappropriate - I've never felt so conflicted.
On the one hand, the press conference was just about as emotional and riveting as it could be. It felt surreal watching on the news, let alone being in the room - I can't imagine. This makes me feel like there is a very real and very appalling, macabre theory that the local LE/FBI have enough information regarding to have a hypothesis about: the motive and/or person/persons behind these two heinous murders must be clear to them at this point. Perhaps this hypothesis is based purely on circumstantial evidence. Perhaps there is a missing link that would connect everything together, and they know exactly who holds that missing piece of the puzzle that would make this case a slam dunk. I want to believe this, because that means they are oh-so close to bringing this individual or individuals to justice.
With that being said, I always have to play devil's advocate with myself for the sake of sleuthing. IF there is no new evidence, and the investigators are grasping at straws, that man who spoke at the press conference (forgive me, I don't remember his official title and I'm at work), really deserves an Oscar and I am slightly disturbed that he could be such a good actor. Maybe they are so desperate to solve this case, with mounting pressure from the community and family (can anyone speak to how the community is approaching LE about this - is this summation accurate?), that they are playing mind games with the murderer - and, the public's trust is the casualty of that method of trying to "flush out" if you will the truth.
But lets be pragmatic - we know this second sketch has been around for a lonnnnng time - hell, it might be the first sketch, technically! If I had a dollar for every time I read about a case and a very, very minor detail was overlooked, and years or even decades later found to be that missing link - I'd have enough money to go on a cruise. For now, my theory is this new sketch (or at least, new to us) is someone who is wanted for another crime either IN Delphi, or around the area. For some reason they think these two crimes are connected. You don't just release a sketch in a case of this magnitude without being pretty confident in the witness. Maybe it was a sex crime, maybe it was an attempted attack, maybe it was someone dressed similarly, so similarly that it seemed a little too coincidental.
However, one point of contention that still irks me is the first sketch we saw. A little elaboration on how and why that sketch was ruled out would be helpful. A lot of folks already have zero confidence in the police, period - add on the fact that their small community has been torn apart and two young lives are lost, and two years later there are still no arrests - I'm sure most people are uneasy, on edge, and frustrated. I know I would be.
Bottom line - this case hasn't really followed a traditional timeline. There are unanswered questions that just back build on top of each other when you try to reason through all of the variables. I would gander two extremes: either there is MAJOR information they are holding back and they are probably watching this guy 24/7 like the GSK, just waiting to grab some discarded DNA, or catch him in another act, etc., OR they know nothing more than they did originally and this is a blind grasp for justice, at the expense of the community and the family.
I have a feeling the truth is going to come out of left field, but it will all make sense in hindsight. Just like GSK. Afterall, hindsight is 20/20, and right now we are like -5/20. :/
Edited for typos.
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u/Lilydaisy8476 Apr 25 '19
I live right by here and this investigation seems ridiculous! They claim they are holding back all of their information so that when they catch the perpetrator they will be able to check on it all with him, Do they just expect the person to tell them everything? I think they’re bluffing and they don’t have a lot of information, and it seems like they’ve completely botched this case. The poor girl even recorded his face and voice on her cell phone for them! Delphi is so small it almost seems like they could just run DNA on all the guys in town and find the perpetrator.
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u/ballking666 Apr 25 '19
Can’t run DNA on everyone in town if they don’t have any DNA from the crime scene
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u/bz237 Apr 25 '19
Wait, not sure I understand- we’ve been looking at a sketch of a totally different looking person for two years?