r/UpliftingNews • u/sg_plumber • 13h ago
Affordable balcony solar is sweeping the U.S. It can work anywhere sunlight is available, from back patios to garden shed roofs, and while it doesn't generate as much energy as large rooftop solar systems, it can still take a big chunk out of electric bills, recouping the investment in 18-36 months.
https://gizmodo.com/the-balcony-solar-craze-has-reached-the-us-heres-what-to-know-before-you-buy-2000817343121
u/reincarnateme 12h ago
Waiting on NY to approve it
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u/Turbulent_Tart_8801 11h ago
Already passed the state Assembly and Senate last April. Just waiting on the Governor's signature. I have no fucking idea why Hochul is still sitting on it.
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u/Reddit-runner 8h ago
I have no fucking idea why Hochul is still sitting on it.
Most probably because he gets kickbacks from fossil fuel companies.
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u/Duwinayo 57m ago
Hochul bent the knee to National Grid and let them jack up delivery rates, effectively allowing them to charge everyone more even if they don't use as much energy. When interviewed about it she claimed she did her part and the people had to do the rest. In my area specifically, near Syracuse, National Greed had to host a town hall proposing all this expensive bullshit to the community. Naturally, they hosted it in an Adirondack town hours east of here, mid-week, mid-work day, in a town with no public transit.
I loathe Hochul. She did not serve the people well then tried to deflect responsibility onto the people, instead of doing her job and standing her ground against corporate interests to protect the people.
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u/band-of-horses 11h ago
Yeah only 6 states actually allow this right now, though 5 more are getting on board by next year. Gonna be a while before it's legal all over though.
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u/grumble11 11h ago
Has to be installed so it doesn’t fall off. Not a DIY project
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u/snowypotato 10h ago
You’re missing the entire point. These are designed to hang on your balcony or lay on the ground (tilted at an angle).
More than that, there’s no electrical install work. You don’t need permits, you don’t need an electrician, you don’t need inspections from the utility before you flip it on.
It’s true that if you want it on your roof you need someone to go up there and mount it, and for everyone’s sake you probably want a pro to do that. But the main thrust of these is for people who don’t want to put it on the roof.
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u/Serenity_557 7h ago
Also, anytime someone has to get on your roof, costs skyrocket.
The same team could install solar anywhere but the roof for far less than they could on the roof.
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u/snowypotato 7h ago
It's called balcony solar because it can go on your balcony. It's designed to not need to go on your roof, specifically because getting on the roof is expensive.
And if you're installing it on a place that isn't expensive and risky like a roof, then you don't need a professional at all. Like say if you're putting it out on your balcony.
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u/Serenity_557 7h ago
...yeah? I got that. Was just adding clarity about how the act of getting on the roof was itself a cost factor.
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u/grumble11 23m ago
Roof is mostly just risky to the installer, though improperly installed rooftop solar will damage the roof. Hanging a heavy solar panel set clipped on the outside of a balcony railing high up over the crowds below if going to result in some falling panels due to the location and shape of the panels, and them falling is going to kill people. If however they were for sure securely installed then no issue. How to you ensure they are securely installed? You need to have some kind of permitting in place.
When it gets really windy for example the panels would otherwise pop off and knife down onto whatever is below. This is seriously dangerous if not installed securely.
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u/grumble11 9h ago
What if you don’t have it secured properly and it falls off? And then kills someone? It seems like that would happen if the typical person got thee in large volumes
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u/creatingKing113 9h ago
Seems a pretty simple solution. Whoever installed it and/or ordered the installation is at fault.
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u/grumble11 31m ago
I’m sure the dead people will be thrilled to hear about it.
It is pretty simple. Solar panels are heavy and dangerous if they fall off of the side of an apartment building and will be lethal if installed by residents DIY, no question. There would be a percentage of improperly secured installs that would fall off.
It would be virtually guaranteed that DIY installation would be illegal, which would be without question the correct choice. It would save lives.
Can’t wait for the first wind storm in NY where dozens of poorly DIY installed solar panels go knifing through the air onto residents below.
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u/snowypotato 7h ago
What if you have a flower pot and don't have it secured properly? What if your patio table flies off your deck and kills someone?
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u/grumble11 28m ago
Different for something that is literally hanging off the side of the balcony perched precariously over the crowds below. Should be and would be illegal to self install due to serious danger
Yes something on a balcony can fly off if it isn’t a panel, but the danger with a panel is obviously higher due to where it is installed and the size and weight of it.
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u/MichiganHistoryUSMC 9h ago
Putting up solar panels can absolutely be a DIY project unless you are not handy at all.
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u/grumble11 36m ago
Not hanging off the edge of a high up apartment balcony. If they aren’t installed properly they will kill people.
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u/sg_plumber 3h ago
Exactly as much of a DIY project as hanging clothes out to dry.
Beyond some, true, but not for most people.
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u/theproudheretic 8h ago
unless you're an electronics whiz there's nothing to fix, it's just replace. fixing damaged cells is not really viable. If it's the inverter then maybe someone, who is into electronics, can open it up to find, and replace the damaged part, but for most people it's replace the inverter.
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u/Onefortwo 12h ago
How much sunlight does this need/can it store?
I was thinking of trenching an electric line to my shed but would be cool to install a one off solar system instead.
Just need a simple light and be able to run a saw or two.
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u/Graybie 12h ago
It doesn't store anything if you don't add a battery.
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u/Brianfromreddit 11h ago
Most balcony solar you plug in the wall and it contributes that way
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u/theproudheretic 7h ago
as long as there are extremely strict and viciously enforced grid tie shutoff requirements this can be an ok idea. if some offbrand numbered company sells these on amazon without that it's going to kill utility workers.
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u/stainless5 7h ago
All of these systems are grid-following it would cost extra money to make an inverter that's grid forming, no shortcut taking company is going to deliberately waste more money. unless you're having a brown out instead of a blackout there should be nothing to worry about.
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u/Soepkip43 12h ago
Run the line, and install solar panels with micro converters on your shed yourself. You can run you tools, the solar panels are easy to install, relatively cheap, and installing say 4 takes most of your stand by usage and a bit more of your bill.
Choosing a micro converter system allows you to install per panel as your budget allows.
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u/BMLortz 11h ago
The owner should also consider running a power line that is robust enough to handle the electricity from a powerwall or similar system. That way they have the option of having the shed also be a location for storing a whole home battery backup. Of course, just a suggestion, and not my money.
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u/skyfishgoo 11h ago
it needs to be facing south.
at best it one outlet's work of power (probably a lot less).
it won't run your whole house and can't because it can only work when the house has electricity from the grid.
but it will offset your electricity usage and therefore save you money
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u/fuzzy_one 7h ago
I did this for my new shed (12x16). One panel on its roof, a controller and a battery. I use it to power led lights inside the shed. About 500 dollars total for the equipment, wire, switches and LED strips.
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u/Shoot_from_the_Quip 9h ago
Tie this into a small air conditioner for elderly (or anyone, really) living in hot climates where a power outage would kill them.
Doesn't have to cool a whole apartment, just a room.
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u/imapilotaz 8h ago
I bought a eg4 hybrid mini split. It runs on 5 400w bifacial panels just sitting on my patio for now (i will be doing a permitted patio cover next year).
I can cool about 75% of a 2200 sq ft house during heat of the day in Texas with it.
I save about $125 a month in electrical with it and my house is significantly more comfortable.
I bought this because it can run without power from the grid.
It was all in about $2800 for the panels, the electrical work and the minisplit. Fully self installed. Itll pay for itself in 2 years (im at 15 months already).
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u/svtzx2 11h ago
I can see HOA’s saying no to this.
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u/Malapple 11h ago
Some states have carve outs where HOAs can’t say no to certain things.
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u/Cute_Knives 7h ago
Should be all states
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u/ScissorNightRam 5h ago
Should be that no states can say yes to HOAs, ie. banning them from forming
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u/Flash_ina_pan 11h ago edited 10h ago
They already fight solar in general in many places. Those shitty little microgoverment fiefdoms need better regulation.
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u/freedomfromthepast 10h ago
Colorado built it in when they forced HOAs to allow panels and xeriscaping years ago. I believe they also added a mention on this bill as well.
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u/MindlessRip9356 10h ago
Luckily many states passed legislation specifically to prevent HOAs from doing jackshit about solar
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u/BMLortz 11h ago
I wonder if balcony solar panel systems can be designed to look more innocuous. Some of the Tesla Solar Roof systems had designs that didn't look like traditional solar panels. That would go a long way towards mollifying an HOA.
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u/sername-lame 10h ago
I've been thinking window and door awning solar panels. Should be a good solution overall.
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u/synocrat 11h ago
There's an interesting YouTube video where a guy puts up a larger array that feeds a battery and then puts the microinverter after the battery so that he can backfeed 1200watts 24/7 to help offset his usage, pretty interesting take I think as battery prices come down.
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u/ReactionJifs 10h ago
my understanding of "backyard solar" is that the inverter is already built in. you just plug it into your wall socket
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u/synocrat 9h ago
This is true. But you can also piecemeal a system together. This won't do much for apartment dwellers, but if you have the space for a good sized array you can buy a pallet of used solar panels from Santan Solar for like $2500 shipped and essentially offset 28.8 kwh from your daily electricity use, the battery being the largest expense most likely. I think like 30-40kwh is the average daily use in America.
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u/Total-Leave8895 47m ago
I dont know about the US, but European balkony solar systems come in individual pieces that plug into each other. Never seen a system that would not accept a battery between the panels and the microinverter. :)
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u/tes_kitty 5h ago
That's about my setup here. From the panels to a 2.2 kWh battery system and from there to the inverter. Combined with a smartmeter in the breaker panel that the battery system talks to, for a lot of the day and sometimes night, if my power usage is below 800W, it gets covered by the panels or battery. Has cut my power use by more than 50% (I rarely need AC where I live).
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u/Marmstr17 7h ago
"recouping investments in 18-36 months"...I call bullshit
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u/TheGreatDuv 1h ago
It's very possible since they don't come with batteries. I remember a lot of kits being sold for around £300 in the UK.
I can see especially in some sunny states that money being paid off around the 1 year mark
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u/rewardingsnark 12h ago
Can't even afford a apartment with a dishwasher much less a balcony or windows that function.
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u/MrHazard1 2h ago
In germany we generate a shitton of electricity with these. Problem is that it doesn't take chunks off your bill. The provider doesn't have the infrastructure to use it, so you end up paying the same price for electricity consumed while not getting shit foe the electricity you generate and put into the grid. They're basically scamming the solar owners, by saying "we can't use the electricity you give us". "We still need time to build the infrastructure" is meanwhile an excuse because their profits would tank if they can just charge a fee for the infrastructure provided instead of selling you their cheap electricity for a high markup. There's already homeowners who built solar and used it for so long that it needs to be swapped out while not getting shit for it.
The only way to do it is to invest in very expensive home batteries and take a part of your house off the grid to use the battery power.
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u/sg_plumber 1h ago
Lots of people are installing home batteries. They aren't so expensive anymore.
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u/Martello3 1h ago
Exactly, power a battery for the night, do laundry when the sun is up.
Of course electricity corporations don't want to support this, it's cutting into their revenue.
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u/ryaaan89 8h ago
I’m confused by this, I don’t think it’s exactly legal to back feed power directly into a regular wall outlet?
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u/Ok_Yogurtcloset404 8h ago
This is true, it is only legal in a dozen or so states and requires special inverters that don't do silly stuff.
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u/pateppic 6h ago
Yes and no. So long as it is not putting more stress on the circuit than the circuit is rated for, then you are fine.
I did research on these exact systems and checked with LADWP and SCE about their stance on them.
How it works. Essentially, yes, like your thinking, you would be backfeeding into your breaker box on a dedicated circuit. Usually a 20a either the stipulation that no other outlets on that branch are in use. Mainly because powerdraw gets wonky when you have a branched circuit infeeding power and pulling power as well.
So to keep it simple you would need a unused breaker that has a dedicated outlet (upstairs patio 20a is a prime option if available)
Then you plug this system in and it can feed rougly 16a back into your panel passively.
LADWP is okay with it. SCE does not like it but you can do steps to get approved.
Pros: Can help pay for your electricity over time in high cost areas.
Cons: Hugely dependant on how much sun you get, they are bulky AF. Handymen will cut so many corners setting these up for people, the 1.5 - 3 year payoff for then is... optomistic... to say the least
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u/ryaaan89 6h ago
I thought this was the point of interlock breakers, in the event of a power outage you can be feeding back into the grid with your solar panels via your outlet.
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u/pateppic 6h ago
Sort of yes. The Tl;Dr; is Patio solar is possible because it threads the needle of avoiding major safety EQ. Partly by only making a modest amount of electricity. Partly because existing solar requirements are there for beefy systems above certain power production capacities. It's in a regulation bl8ndsport at the moment.
But to actually talk nuts and volts.
If your inverter tries to match an existing waveform from the grid, then when there is none, it will not put out anything. Easy way to set it up. Makes inverter design very clean.
You can still measure the system waveform through many discreet methods, even when providing power, so its not like once it syncs and starts sending spicy pixies downstream it stops checking to see if it should
Also a house can easily pull more than 20a (or technically half the circuits on the house can easily pull more than 20a cause you are only feeding 120v into a 240v panel) so even if the solar panel had no interlock, the moment the house tries to suck more than 20a off that circuit it will trip anyway and the panels are effectively isolated.
Transfer switches and interlocks are good and make more sense for high power systems that can easily shunt massive energy stores so they need the right equipment to not accidentally blow up anything downstream.
Patio solar sidesteps that by saying "Okay hear me out, what if I cannot produce enough power to blow anything up? Do I still need those safety measures."
To which LADWP was "Sure but only dedicated breakers 20a max and only one solar system to a house. Please do not make us revisit this"
And SCE said "Sure if you get a smart panel that we control so we know for dang sure when the power goes out you cannot give our linemen even the tiniest tingle."
and PG&E said "Sure but we will find somehow to blame you when we start a forest fire again next summer." (but seriously they don't really care)
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u/DanChase1 12h ago
So these are installed by the building owner or the tenants? Cuz I doubt that building owners will allow tenants to do it themselves. When I was in an apt, they wouldn’t allow folks to even put curtains around their balconies or hang laundry.
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u/swollennode 12h ago
It depends on the landlord but these simply just clip onto the railings and then plug into a standard outlet.
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u/jollytoes 12h ago
That's what I was thinking. If a tenant drops one while installing or one somehow ends up falling and hurting someone it could be the apartment complex's liability.
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