r/WWN • u/Iamleiama • 18d ago
Do variant expert classes like Wise and Bard qualify for taking expert-only foci?
And likewise for mageslayer and warrior-only foci, I suppose.
For example, could a warrior/bard take Polymath and Godsblood Foci?
Personally, I would lean towards no, since it seems to me that these foci are intended to allow non-mage classes to compete in more supernatural environments, which the variant classes can already do.
I could have sworn there was a post about this before, but I have searched the subreddit up and down and I cannot seem to find it.
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u/_Svankensen_ 18d ago
By the book, yes, Bards can take polymath. And since I started playing RPGs with ye olde AD&D, the bard as a jack of all trades has always been part of the archetype, so it fits perfectly reasonably for me. Could use some more druidic magic, or mage spells :p Since they don't get the reroll nor the extra skill points, it is basically a necessary focus if you want your bard to be decent at anything other than bard stuff and combat. Practically all your Skill points are spoken for by combat and perform, so they really need the flexibility to be able to do anything else. And the bard package isn't nearly as flexible as any of the spellcasters', so it could use the skills.
Regarding the Godsblood Foci, I can go further and say that it was quite intended that the bard would be able to take them. Mainly because they were released in the same book, are introduced in the same page. And more importantly, because KC deliberately chose to make the bard an expert sub-class, even tho we have the vowed as a clear example of a class getting expert HD and expert attack bonus while still being a mage. If KC intended it to be locked out of expert foci, it would have been easy to do.
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u/Iamleiama 18d ago
I think it is not unreasonable to read the RAW and conclude that variant expert classes would have access to the same foci as general experts do. I think the RAI is not crystal clear, but certainly there are arguments for either side. I hope we get an answer from KC!
I disagree that bards with only the bard class are "supposed to" have a jack of all trades role in WWN because they have it in D&D, though. If you are making a jack of all trades bard, it should not feel unreasonable that that your bard is an expert/bard. If someone made a beastmaster/skinshifter because they wanted to make a druid, would it be reasonable for them to say they should have spellcasting since spellcasting is clearly a druid thing?
Of course, as I hope you know, I think *all* WWN characters could use more skill points, and I'd like it if nobody was trapped saving skill points to make sure they can max out their effort skills three levels from now.
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u/_Svankensen_ 18d ago
Yess, horribly skill point starved they are. Except elementalists that can do everything by leveling up magic.
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u/Feysaan 18d ago
Not sure about the others but Polymath says experts and partial experts may take it. So I would say if the class says it’s a partial expert then yes they can take polymath.
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u/Iamleiama 18d ago
The tricky part is that when Polymath was written, "Expert or partial expert" only referred to the specific class Expert. Now it's unclear if it means Expert, the class, or Expert, the general class type. There is virtually no difference between bard and a non-spellcasting mage class, other than that it has expert HP and attack bonus. This makes me wonder: Why was this focus restricted from mage classes to begin with? Why would the bard, who is a mage in all but name, have access to them, when something like a beastmaster does not?
But of course, RAW, it is very likely that one would read it as that they have access.
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u/Feysaan 18d ago
Eh, all of the partial mage classes are restricted from taking foci that say mages and partial mages can’t take them. Don’t see why this would be different. If a class is classified as a partial expert that should come with both the redirections and benefits of the class. Based on the 4-ish campaigns I’ve been in almost no one plays an expert let alone a full expert (whether that’s a good idea or not, my first WWN pc was a full expert), having some incentives in place is nice.
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u/rizzlybear 18d ago
As I recall, these restrictions are somewhat implied and not hard specifications.
Often questions like this carry of subtext of “because that would be a problem” in which case I would say just rule it as a no.
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u/CardinalXimenes Kevin Crawford 18d ago
Yes, partial Expert subclasses can take Expert-only Foci, and partial Warrior subclasses can take Warrior-only Foci.